Debit charges either don't cost them anything and/or they can make money on them while credit card purchases always cost them money. This is why they push debit. It all has to do with their bottom line and nothing to do with the customer.
Debit transactions still incur a fee, it is just not nearly as high as a credit transaction.
I've had the issue of it saying "done" when the transaction didn't process at Walgreens and McDonalds multiple times even using the same terminal that had been problem free a couple days before.
Now that I'm back in Europe I've used it successfully at least 8 times and only had once where it didn't work. In that one case I then pulled out my contactless (NFC) debit card and it worked without problem, so it doesn't seem to just be an issue with the terminal.
My biggest disappointment is that I seem to get a worse exchange rate (by approx. 1.25%) using Apple Pay verses swiping the same credit card on the same day. I've noticed this over a period of days. This is really strange and while the difference isn't huge it does add up (could easily be $100 in a year). Any one have thoughts on why this would be?
I've had the issue of it saying "done" when the transaction didn't process at Walgreens and McDonalds multiple times even using the same terminal that had been problem free a couple days before.
Now that I'm back in Europe I've used it successfully at least 8 times and only had once where it didn't work. In that one case I then pulled out my contactless (NFC) debit card and it worked without problem, so it doesn't seem to just be an issue with the terminal.
My biggest disappointment is that I seem to get a worse exchange rate (by approx. 1.25%) using Apple Pay verses swiping the same credit card on the same day. I've noticed this over a period of days. This is really strange and while the difference isn't huge it does add up (could easily be $100 in a year). Any one have thoughts on why this would be?
I like Walgreens the best - I never touch the terminal to authorize the amount. With WFM, I have to click "OK" to authorize the amount.
The best is to avoid touching terminal that has been touched by many shoppers, ew.
At my local Rite-Aid, which is now part of Walgreens, it recognizes that the phone is there, but the transaction gets rejected.
As for the article claiming that a large percentage of terminals will still not accept NFC by the end of the year, I doubt that will be the case, because starting at the October deadline, the credit card companies are raising the fees substantially for any retailer who doesn't convert.
The bigger issue (at least for me) is changing the programming in the terminals so that you don't have to approve the amount or sign. Even when I use my debit card (which can also be used as a credit card, although it still debits my checking account), it reads it as a credit card and forces me to sign, which I don't have to do when I swipe it and tell the cashier that it's "debit".
Admittedly, I haven't used Apple Pay outside of transactions (many) at a nearby Whole Foods. Concerning these purchases, I have had none of the described problems. In fact, the POS experience at Whole Foods is absolutely the best. I can imagine it will be even more streamlined after the introduction of Apple's new watch product.
On the other hand, many more retailers will have to implement Apple pay for me to be more excited about it. Furthermore, any payment system will have problems if the retailer doesn't train its employees and/or makes access to the terminal awkward. That's not an Apple problem - that's on the retailer. I also think the POS experience at far too many retailers may be substandard regardless of payment technique.
Perhaps Apple can offer different incentive plans to jump start acceptance. For example, free or discounted mobile terminals could be offered to both chain and individual restaurants.
Debit charges either don't cost them anything and/or they can make money on them while credit card purchases always cost them money. This is why they push debit. It all has to do with their bottom line and nothing to do with the customer.
do you need to enter your pin on every single point of sale credit card transaction?
In the UK (and most of Europe), we input the PIN for sales over £ 30 (about $ 40), or when the terminal doesn't accept Contactless. When we use the PIN, it seems that the merchant can decide for which amounts authorization needs to be obtained from the bank. It happens often that I pay for goods up to £ 100 and the sale gets authorized immediately, without dialing up the bank. Chip and PIN, and Contactless cards, are very quick and easy to use. Still, it is disappointing to read of these problems with Apple Pay; I look forward to it coming to the UK, if only to reduce the bulk in my wallet. I hope they figure it out, or maybe its is just lack of experience with Contactless at US retailers and it will be as easy, or easier, than using Contactless once it comes to the UK.
This study and story are completely contingent on the market or area where 3000 people where surveyed. Some areas do not have Apple Pay at all even though their stores advertise it. Some areas Apple Pay is everywhere but you would never know unless you try. The first time I ever tried it, I tried it at a Petco which is has been an Apple Pay partner from day 1. The same charge ran through 3 times but wasn't processed. The finally told me that the hardware at the store was fine but that their server and software wasn't configured for Apple Pay yet. I've since used it about 20 times at a local McDonalds and Duane Reade with no issues at all.
My point is, if those 3000 people were all surveyed from the same area which might have contained 5 businesses claiming to support Apple Pay, it only takes one business incorrectly setup for Apple Pay to completely throw off results. As far as the other issues and complaints, tell them to Europeans and Canadians. Pay to tap might not have been faster than credit card swiping when it was first used but now you would have to pry that technology from those consumers' cold, dead hands before you could take it away.
This will all change in the U.S. once we reach the October deadline. Some businesses will go the chip and pin route, some will go the chip and sign route and others will do nothing and incur fees from fraud. Most will upgrade to tap and pay and all of these will support Apple Pay unless they specifically turn it off.
I have used Apple Pay at Chevron, McDonalds, Walgreens, Wholefoods, and all the DIsney Parks. I have never had one issue with a payment not going through or having to authorize the payment more than once. Walgreens was a hassle with all there prompts and Chevron still required you to sign so these experiances there werent great. Disney was awesome and super smooth and easy. McDonalds has been good for the most part. Only issue i have seen is at the drive-thru. When you go very early or late, they only have the second windown open. At that window they dont have the termial they can hold out the window which means there is no way to use Apple Pay :-(
Overall, I have been very happy with the experiance.
The various machine prompts on checkout at places such as walgreens makes me hate those store. On the other hand applepay is not actually able to prevent some stores from asking for a signature anyway. In those cases it is just functioning as an nfc card reader and not an actual apple pay terminal.
I've used it at Panera's Bakery and Quick Chek with no problems. It does take longer to execute a transaction than with a credit card but that is a minor inconvenience. I wish more vendors would accept it.
My son gave up on his because he had to put his debit card PIN into the terminal as well. I've had to sign the terminal sometimes, despite the fingerprint being way more secure. I've had cashiers ask me for the card (they look at you funny when you say "I don't have it, the phone IS the card"). One time (Staples I think) they wanted my driver's license AND the card. One day...
OK, I am a big fan of Applepay and my experiences have been very good.
Issue 1. Have to do it twice. I find that the wireless readers and associated software doesn't always work even when the check box appears. I suspect this is more an indication that the info was sent to the store not that the store got it. At Whole Foods there are a set of lights above the touch screen and if they all light up, 4 of them, then you are good to go. Issue 2. Stores have NFC pay device, CVS, its receives code, but then you get a "we don't do Applepay" and you need to use a credit card. Walgreens no problem and so I shop there from now on. Issue 3. Drive through at MacDonalds. I have not tried this, was not even aware you could, but at the counter its a breeze and very fast.
So the biggest problem is getting more Stores to use and more consistent behaviors at cash register, however, I have starting filtering where I shop based on Applepay. Time will sort this out. In order of frequency, Whole Foods, Shaws, Vending Machines, McDonalds, Walgreens, and Home Depot are more most used Applepay stores. This is about 80% of my shopping spending with cards. If CVS, Roche, Stop & Shop, PETCO, UPS, USPO, and a few restaurants supported Applepay I would be 95% covered.
This only leaves on-line shopping e.g., Amazon, King Arthur Four, Cooks Illustrated, and William-Sonoma, then a similar high percentage would be used.
I really really like the privacy and security features of Applepay. Stores simply do not properly secure the credit card and personal information. Aside from embarrassing press [usually short lived and "we follow industry best practices - read crappy practices" there is not incentive to be more secure. The real pain and risk is on the consumer, who is least prepared to cope with it. Even the Banks have figured this out and are insisting in more secure devices and processes - they have a financial stake in the game vs the stores/retailers.
I've tried it twice at CVS. Learned they took the service away because they were developing their own. (I don't shop there anymore.) Then I tried it once at OfficeMax and it worked flawlessly.
I think others are saying they ran into problems. I can also say the same thing. I been to stores which have it the terminal show the icon but the casher does not know what to do. What I read is the cashier has to first process the order and then tell you to go ahead and run the card or use the apple pay. The slight difference is the cashier does not have to complete the transaction for you to swipe you card unless it set up that way, many time you can swipe before they complete the transaction. Most Cashier will look to see you swipe than complete the transaction. For apple pay to work the transaction need to be complete and the terminal set to look for a swipe or NFC.
Right now the issue is the fact most cashiers do not know what to do, they have to know ahead of time you plan to use Apple Pay and then complete the transactions.
I also run into stores which support ApplePay but they only have one terminal set up to support, Panera is bad for this. I been to a couple different one and they have 4 cashier stations but only 2 say it supports Applepay and if they are not open you can not use it.
At this point this is not an issue with ApplyPay, but more of an issue with the Merchants and the Cashiers.
I know there has been lots of discussion about chip and pin or EVM technologies and how it just as good if not better. Originally my assumption were it had it own issues, but since I never used it I could not say for sure. I was in Toronto last week and used chip and pin well more like EVM since it did not require me to enter any pin. I can tell you it sucks, not sure why people in the EU think it the greatest thing to slice bread.
After the cashier processes your order they hand you a terminal which you need to slide the chip side of the card into it then it ask you a serious of questions which you have to answer before it will complete the transaction. The only nice part was when I was at a restaurant they brought the POS to the table and I could process my payment there. As we know restaurants are the place with most card get skimmed and stolen. This way your card never leaves your sight.
I will add that I ran into problems with the Terminal working correct with my AMEX card. Some time the chip reader did not work so I had to swipe it anyway, one time I had to swipe first then put it in the chip reader, and the other time at a gas station, the pump chip and swipe ready would not work so I had to go inside to pay, and the person said their POS did not like AMEX card and I had to manually swipe inside after i pump the gas and they complete the transaction. I think the issue at the pump was due to the fact gas pumps do a pre-authorization of $1 to verify the card is good than lets you pump and once complete it processes the transaction. I am assuming AMEX does not allow the pre-authorization.
Based on that experience over a week of being in Toronto I am not sure why anyone would deal with the issues of processing a chip and pin transaction, it just plan suck especially compare to Apple pay which it work was a mater of 2 secs of holding the phone up an putting your finger on the ID reader.
The only time I ever had an "issue" was when I used at a terminal with NFC, but not an Apple Pay partner. It worked fine, except that it treated it just like my debit card, meaning I had to enter my PIN or sign for it. Never had an issue at Staples, Walgreens, Macy's or McDonalds.
I've had similar issues with it. Over the weekend, I had to try three times and it said "Done" each time, but didn't actually go through. I finally had to give up and use a regular credit card. I've used it about twenty times and have found that it generally takes longer for me to complete the process than it would to just take out and use my credit card. I see the benefit with regards to security, but in the end, the credit card companies are on the hook for any fraudulent charges and the banks are seeing higher fraudulent charges anyway because of their implementations of Apple Pay. In the end, it seems like just another way to pay that also has its problems.
right... FUD, there is NO PROOF that they'Re having an issue with high fraud. Proof of that is that the article about that didn't gain any traction.
I know there has been lots of discussion about chip and pin or EVM technologies and how it just as good if not better. Originally my assumption were it had it own issues, but since I never used it I could not say for sure. I was in Toronto last week and used chip and pin well more like EVM since it did not require me to enter any pin. I can tell you it sucks, not sure why people in the EU think it the greatest thing to slice bread.
After the cashier processes your order they hand you a terminal which you need to slide the chip side of the card into it then it ask you a serious of questions which you have to answer before it will complete the transaction. The only nice part was when I was at a restaurant they brought the POS to the table and I could process my payment there. As we know restaurants are the place with most card get skimmed and stolen. This way your card never leaves your sight.
I will add that I ran into problems with the Terminal working correct with my AMEX card. Some time the chip reader did not work so I had to swipe it anyway, one time I had to swipe first then put it in the chip reader, and the other time at a gas station, the pump chip and swipe ready would not work so I had to go inside to pay, and the person said their POS did not like AMEX card and I had to manually swipe inside after i pump the gas and they complete the transaction. I think the issue at the pump was due to the fact gas pumps do a pre-authorization of $1 to verify the card is good than lets you pump and once complete it processes the transaction. I am assuming AMEX does not allow the pre-authorization.
Based on that experience over a week of being in Toronto I am not sure why anyone would deal with the issues of processing a chip and pin transaction, it just plan suck especially compare to Apple pay which it work was a mater of 2 secs of holding the phone up an putting your finger on the ID reader.
I'm in Canada and used Chip and Pin for 5+ years, and don't know what your talking about. Look at price on checkout which shows up on payment terminal (terminal may be bolted or on a cord in some bracket), slide card in (if its a debit card select with account), enter pin, bam its done. Takes 15 seconds if I'm really really slow. The only time were the cashier at my store handles my terminal is when I want a cashback (and other stores don't do it that, so I'm guessing that's just them). I've paid for $1000+ items that way.
I tried once to use it at the McDs drive-thru... NEVER AGAIN. They had to swing the whole CC-reader terminal and hang it out the window for me to reach my phone out to complete the transaction. Then it took three tries for it to work. It's so much faster to give them my card, have them swipe, and be on my way.
I've had no issues, however, using it places like Walgreens, Staples, and Home Depot.
Actually, in line with its heightened interest in health, Apple is discreetly trying to discourage you from eating at McDonalds. ;-)
Comments
Debit charges either don't cost them anything and/or they can make money on them while credit card purchases always cost them money. This is why they push debit. It all has to do with their bottom line and nothing to do with the customer.
Debit transactions still incur a fee, it is just not nearly as high as a credit transaction.
I've had the issue of it saying "done" when the transaction didn't process at Walgreens and McDonalds multiple times even using the same terminal that had been problem free a couple days before.
Now that I'm back in Europe I've used it successfully at least 8 times and only had once where it didn't work. In that one case I then pulled out my contactless (NFC) debit card and it worked without problem, so it doesn't seem to just be an issue with the terminal.
My biggest disappointment is that I seem to get a worse exchange rate (by approx. 1.25%) using Apple Pay verses swiping the same credit card on the same day. I've noticed this over a period of days. This is really strange and while the difference isn't huge it does add up (could easily be $100 in a year). Any one have thoughts on why this would be?
To pay for my dividend.
Interesting, I've used Apple Pay without issues.
Walgreens worked perfectly. WFM worked perfectly.
I like Walgreens the best - I never touch the terminal to authorize the amount. With WFM, I have to click "OK" to authorize the amount.
The best is to avoid touching terminal that has been touched by many shoppers, ew.
At my local Rite-Aid, which is now part of Walgreens, it recognizes that the phone is there, but the transaction gets rejected.
As for the article claiming that a large percentage of terminals will still not accept NFC by the end of the year, I doubt that will be the case, because starting at the October deadline, the credit card companies are raising the fees substantially for any retailer who doesn't convert.
The bigger issue (at least for me) is changing the programming in the terminals so that you don't have to approve the amount or sign. Even when I use my debit card (which can also be used as a credit card, although it still debits my checking account), it reads it as a credit card and forces me to sign, which I don't have to do when I swipe it and tell the cashier that it's "debit".
On the other hand, many more retailers will have to implement Apple pay for me to be more excited about it. Furthermore, any payment system will have problems if the retailer doesn't train its employees and/or makes access to the terminal awkward. That's not an Apple problem - that's on the retailer. I also think the POS experience at far too many retailers may be substandard regardless of payment technique.
Perhaps Apple can offer different incentive plans to jump start acceptance. For example, free or discounted mobile terminals could be offered to both chain and individual restaurants.
Debit charges either don't cost them anything and/or they can make money on them while credit card purchases always cost them money. This is why they push debit. It all has to do with their bottom line and nothing to do with the customer.
Debit cards can DIAF.
do you need to enter your pin on every single point of sale credit card transaction?
In the UK (and most of Europe), we input the PIN for sales over £ 30 (about $ 40), or when the terminal doesn't accept Contactless. When we use the PIN, it seems that the merchant can decide for which amounts authorization needs to be obtained from the bank. It happens often that I pay for goods up to £ 100 and the sale gets authorized immediately, without dialing up the bank. Chip and PIN, and Contactless cards, are very quick and easy to use. Still, it is disappointing to read of these problems with Apple Pay; I look forward to it coming to the UK, if only to reduce the bulk in my wallet. I hope they figure it out, or maybe its is just lack of experience with Contactless at US retailers and it will be as easy, or easier, than using Contactless once it comes to the UK.
This study and story are completely contingent on the market or area where 3000 people where surveyed. Some areas do not have Apple Pay at all even though their stores advertise it. Some areas Apple Pay is everywhere but you would never know unless you try. The first time I ever tried it, I tried it at a Petco which is has been an Apple Pay partner from day 1. The same charge ran through 3 times but wasn't processed. The finally told me that the hardware at the store was fine but that their server and software wasn't configured for Apple Pay yet. I've since used it about 20 times at a local McDonalds and Duane Reade with no issues at all.
My point is, if those 3000 people were all surveyed from the same area which might have contained 5 businesses claiming to support Apple Pay, it only takes one business incorrectly setup for Apple Pay to completely throw off results. As far as the other issues and complaints, tell them to Europeans and Canadians. Pay to tap might not have been faster than credit card swiping when it was first used but now you would have to pry that technology from those consumers' cold, dead hands before you could take it away.
This will all change in the U.S. once we reach the October deadline. Some businesses will go the chip and pin route, some will go the chip and sign route and others will do nothing and incur fees from fraud. Most will upgrade to tap and pay and all of these will support Apple Pay unless they specifically turn it off.
Overall, I have been very happy with the experiance.
Issue 1. Have to do it twice. I find that the wireless readers and associated software doesn't always work even when the check box appears. I suspect this is more an indication that the info was sent to the store not that the store got it. At Whole Foods there are a set of lights above the touch screen and if they all light up, 4 of them, then you are good to go.
Issue 2. Stores have NFC pay device, CVS, its receives code, but then you get a "we don't do Applepay" and you need to use a credit card. Walgreens no problem and so I shop there from now on.
Issue 3. Drive through at MacDonalds. I have not tried this, was not even aware you could, but at the counter its a breeze and very fast.
So the biggest problem is getting more Stores to use and more consistent behaviors at cash register, however, I have starting filtering where I shop based on Applepay. Time will sort this out. In order of frequency, Whole Foods, Shaws, Vending Machines, McDonalds, Walgreens, and Home Depot are more most used Applepay stores. This is about 80% of my shopping spending with cards. If CVS, Roche, Stop & Shop, PETCO, UPS, USPO, and a few restaurants supported Applepay I would be 95% covered.
This only leaves on-line shopping e.g., Amazon, King Arthur Four, Cooks Illustrated, and William-Sonoma, then a similar high percentage would be used.
I really really like the privacy and security features of Applepay. Stores simply do not properly secure the credit card and personal information. Aside from embarrassing press [usually short lived and "we follow industry best practices - read crappy practices" there is not incentive to be more secure. The real pain and risk is on the consumer, who is least prepared to cope with it. Even the Banks have figured this out and are insisting in more secure devices and processes - they have a financial stake in the game vs the stores/retailers.
Right now the issue is the fact most cashiers do not know what to do, they have to know ahead of time you plan to use Apple Pay and then complete the transactions.
I also run into stores which support ApplePay but they only have one terminal set up to support, Panera is bad for this. I been to a couple different one and they have 4 cashier stations but only 2 say it supports Applepay and if they are not open you can not use it.
At this point this is not an issue with ApplyPay, but more of an issue with the Merchants and the Cashiers.
I know there has been lots of discussion about chip and pin or EVM technologies and how it just as good if not better. Originally my assumption were it had it own issues, but since I never used it I could not say for sure. I was in Toronto last week and used chip and pin well more like EVM since it did not require me to enter any pin. I can tell you it sucks, not sure why people in the EU think it the greatest thing to slice bread.
After the cashier processes your order they hand you a terminal which you need to slide the chip side of the card into it then it ask you a serious of questions which you have to answer before it will complete the transaction. The only nice part was when I was at a restaurant they brought the POS to the table and I could process my payment there. As we know restaurants are the place with most card get skimmed and stolen. This way your card never leaves your sight.
I will add that I ran into problems with the Terminal working correct with my AMEX card. Some time the chip reader did not work so I had to swipe it anyway, one time I had to swipe first then put it in the chip reader, and the other time at a gas station, the pump chip and swipe ready would not work so I had to go inside to pay, and the person said their POS did not like AMEX card and I had to manually swipe inside after i pump the gas and they complete the transaction. I think the issue at the pump was due to the fact gas pumps do a pre-authorization of $1 to verify the card is good than lets you pump and once complete it processes the transaction. I am assuming AMEX does not allow the pre-authorization.
Based on that experience over a week of being in Toronto I am not sure why anyone would deal with the issues of processing a chip and pin transaction, it just plan suck especially compare to Apple pay which it work was a mater of 2 secs of holding the phone up an putting your finger on the ID reader.
The only time I ever had an "issue" was when I used at a terminal with NFC, but not an Apple Pay partner. It worked fine, except that it treated it just like my debit card, meaning I had to enter my PIN or sign for it. Never had an issue at Staples, Walgreens, Macy's or McDonalds.
I've had similar issues with it. Over the weekend, I had to try three times and it said "Done" each time, but didn't actually go through. I finally had to give up and use a regular credit card. I've used it about twenty times and have found that it generally takes longer for me to complete the process than it would to just take out and use my credit card. I see the benefit with regards to security, but in the end, the credit card companies are on the hook for any fraudulent charges and the banks are seeing higher fraudulent charges anyway because of their implementations of Apple Pay. In the end, it seems like just another way to pay that also has its problems.
right... FUD, there is NO PROOF that they'Re having an issue with high fraud. Proof of that is that the article about that didn't gain any traction.
I know there has been lots of discussion about chip and pin or EVM technologies and how it just as good if not better. Originally my assumption were it had it own issues, but since I never used it I could not say for sure. I was in Toronto last week and used chip and pin well more like EVM since it did not require me to enter any pin. I can tell you it sucks, not sure why people in the EU think it the greatest thing to slice bread.
After the cashier processes your order they hand you a terminal which you need to slide the chip side of the card into it then it ask you a serious of questions which you have to answer before it will complete the transaction. The only nice part was when I was at a restaurant they brought the POS to the table and I could process my payment there. As we know restaurants are the place with most card get skimmed and stolen. This way your card never leaves your sight.
I will add that I ran into problems with the Terminal working correct with my AMEX card. Some time the chip reader did not work so I had to swipe it anyway, one time I had to swipe first then put it in the chip reader, and the other time at a gas station, the pump chip and swipe ready would not work so I had to go inside to pay, and the person said their POS did not like AMEX card and I had to manually swipe inside after i pump the gas and they complete the transaction. I think the issue at the pump was due to the fact gas pumps do a pre-authorization of $1 to verify the card is good than lets you pump and once complete it processes the transaction. I am assuming AMEX does not allow the pre-authorization.
Based on that experience over a week of being in Toronto I am not sure why anyone would deal with the issues of processing a chip and pin transaction, it just plan suck especially compare to Apple pay which it work was a mater of 2 secs of holding the phone up an putting your finger on the ID reader.
I'm in Canada and used Chip and Pin for 5+ years, and don't know what your talking about. Look at price on checkout which shows up on payment terminal (terminal may be bolted or on a cord in some bracket), slide card in (if its a debit card select with account), enter pin, bam its done. Takes 15 seconds if I'm really really slow. The only time were the cashier at my store handles my terminal is when I want a cashback (and other stores don't do it that, so I'm guessing that's just them). I've paid for $1000+ items that way.
I tried once to use it at the McDs drive-thru... NEVER AGAIN. They had to swing the whole CC-reader terminal and hang it out the window for me to reach my phone out to complete the transaction. Then it took three tries for it to work. It's so much faster to give them my card, have them swipe, and be on my way.
I've had no issues, however, using it places like Walgreens, Staples, and Home Depot.
Actually, in line with its heightened interest in health, Apple is discreetly trying to discourage you from eating at McDonalds. ;-)