Initial Apple Watch stock dries up in minutes, shipping times quickly jump to 4-6 weeks

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  • Reply 321 of 362
    siretman wrote: »
    No! AppleCare coverage begins when you receive the Apple product! If you cancel the order, they will refund the AppleCare charge to your cc.

    If you think about what you'd want Apple to do in any situation -- likely, they already do it ... Or will do it, if you tell them about their situation.

    I've been dealing with Apple for almost 37 years (June 1978) and have always been satisfied with the way I have been treated.

     
    When I called Apple about this, I was told that if I cancel and wait until I get the watches that the effective date will still go back to the purchase date. I was flabbergasted because it does not make any sense from Apple.

    Well ... It depends on what the meaning of IS purchase date is ...

    Say, You order a watch on April 10 -- that's your Order Date.

    Say, they ship it to you on June 1 -- that's your Purchase Date.

    Technically, the Purchase Date is when you take ownership of the goods ... According to the terms of sale, this usually occurs while the goods are in transit (for legal, payment, insurance, etc. reasons).

    Normally, for an Apple store purchase, there is the Order Date, Prepare For Shipment Date *, Ship Date and Delivery date. The Prepare For Shipment Date, Ship Date and Delivery date usually occur within a few days of each other.

    Technically, then, the Prepare for Shipment Date is the Purchase Date. I suspect, if needed, you could convince Apple to honor AppleCare Coverage based on the date you actually received the goods **.

    They are quite reasonable if you have a valid case.

    * When the order shows Prepare For Shipment -- you can't cancel or change the order and your credit card is billed.

    ** Including allowances for returning/replacing damaged or defective goods.

    Whew!
     
  • Reply 322 of 362
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NoSpamMan View Post

     



    4/24 is on every scrap of marketing that Apple did.  Exaggerating the statement to try and make mine wrong is a sloppy, fallacious argument.  No one is suggesting that "everyone" who wanted a watch would get it on 4/24.  What I'm suggesting is that Apple knowingly did not have a reasonable supply in place and they knew it.  It's more accurate to say that they sold out in seconds, not minutes.  They could have postponed, limited countries, limited sales to one watch and so forth and so on.  It's not my job to figure this stuff out for them.  Apple has BILLIONS they can pour into doing this right.

     

    Mr. Jung, perhaps it's time to examine the shadow side here.  No one is "crying."  When Apple fans (or even just "customers") legitimately complain about a problem, it's not like we've insulted your religion or therapist.  We are criticizing an amoral multinational corporation for misrepresenting itself.  When Steve Jobs was still alive, I suppose we could have some reason to anthropomorphize Apple, but no more.

     

    Hey, no global, multi-national corporation can get it right all the time.  I get that.  But they don't get a free pass to manipulate the truth either.  When we call them on it, we're not children "crying," we're intelligent, un-brainwashed adults with critical faculties.  

     

    Oh, and in the interests of transparency, yes, I made up that 97% figure to make a point.

     

    Studies show that 87% of all statistics are made up anyway.  ;-)  




    Is it even possible for you to make a non-attack argument?

  • Reply 323 of 362
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    nospamman wrote: »

    4/24 is on every scrap of marketing that Apple did.  Exaggerating the statement to try and make mine wrong is a sloppy, fallacious argument.  No one is suggesting that "everyone" who wanted a watch would get it on 4/24.  What I'm suggesting is that Apple knowingly did not have a reasonable supply in place and they knew it.  It's more accurate to say that they sold out in seconds, not minutes.  They could have postponed, limited countries, limited sales to one watch and so forth and so on.  It's not my job to figure this stuff out for them.  Apple has BILLIONS they can pour into doing this right.

    Mr. Jung, perhaps it's time to examine the shadow side here.  No one is "crying."  When Apple fans (or even just "customers") legitimately complain about a problem, it's not like we've insulted your religion or therapist.  We are criticizing an amoral multinational corporation for misrepresenting itself.  When Steve Jobs was still alive, I suppose we could have some reason to anthropomorphize Apple, but no more.

    Hey, no global, multi-national corporation can get it right all the time.  I get that.  But they don't get a free pass to manipulate the truth either.  When we call them on it, we're not children "crying," we're intelligent, un-brainwashed adults with critical faculties.  

    Oh, and in the interests of transparency, yes, I made up that 97% figure to make a point.

    Studies show that 87% of all statistics are made up anyway.  ;-)  

    You just stated "No one is suggesting that "everyone" who wanted a watch would get it on 4/24" so why are you complaining? Where in the press release did it say NoSpamMan is guaranteed to get an Apple Watch?

    Apple has rarely had the supply to fulfill all demand for preorders. That's the fact of life.

    Apple is multinational like you said but they're not going to delay their roll out schedule until demand is met in the initial roll out. That's ludicrous.

    And you're right, it's not your job to figure it out. It's Apple's job and that's what the results are based on.
  • Reply 324 of 362
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

     



    I think your entire line of reasoning is bizarre. Ease off the cliches.


     

     

    Explain what "bizarre" means to you, Dr.   And what is so threatening about the notion that our actions should match our words?  Has that become a "cliche?"  This is what we teach in Kindergarten.  Are you suggesting that corporations should be as exempt from this as they are from U.S. tax rates?  Hmm...

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mrboba1 View Post

     

     

    Speaking of actions...

     

    Why don't we wait and see what the actions actually are? Saying 4-6 weeks (which is 2-4 weeks after launch date) are still just words.

    Ever hear of underpromise and overdeliver?




    Yep.  That's part of Apple's corporate philosophy.  It's baked in to the stock price even.  

     

    I think the reality distortion haze will eventually dissipate and things will arrive whenever they do.  If there is such a thing as corporate integrity, then actions have to match the words.  

     

    I think Tim-o has been great in terms of his statements about equal rights for the LGBT crowd.  He seems willing to use Apple's might to stand behind those words.  In that light, gross overstatements about delivery times and availability seem small.  But it all matters.  

     

    Just because climate change is a more serious issue than saving species that are threatened by extinction, doesn't mean we should completely ignore the latter for the former.

     

    Instead of the cloud of secrecy that surrounds Apple (very much a Jobs thing), I'd like to see the corporation start acting more like the global superpower that it is and be more transparent when there are problems.  Be honest when there is a desperate need for a security update and say, "We're working on it!"  Tell the truth when your email software is virtually unusable because of text display delays.  And if you blow a launch date, just say "We goofed."  

     

    There is no perfect analogy that exists in the world today when it comes to computer platforms and the hardware they sit on.  We try to make the car analogy, but it fails at a certain point.  Our lives are wrapped up financially, intellectually, and even psychologically when we choose a platform.  Those of us who recognize that Apple is the one for us put decades of time into mastering different aspects of how that weaves into our business and personal lives.  Especially with the Apple eco-system web growing tighter and tighter.  It's going to be more challenging, time consuming and costly to jump ship.  And most Apple fans don't even want to consider that.

     

    Anyway, I've worked for and with Apple for well over 25 years and I'm still a fan.  I stopped drinking the Kool Aid many years ago, but I still think they're they best in the space and I make my living off assisting those who need help.  

     

    I'm just getting really tired of the religious worship aspect that still permeates the space.  I don't know if there is any other corporation in the world that has this kind of devotion and it's kind of creepy sometimes.  I guess the operative question here (among the devotees) is along the lines of, "Is there ANYthing that Apple could do wrong that would generate a legitimate complaint?"

     

    If the answer to that question is "no," then basically we have a cult.  

  • Reply 325 of 362
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NoSpamMan View Post

     

     

     

    Explain what "bizarre" means to you, Dr.   And what is so threatening about the notion that our actions should match our words?  Has that become a "cliche?"  This is what we teach in Kindergarten.  Are you suggesting that corporations should be as exempt from this as they are from U.S. tax rates?  Hmm...

     


     

    You describe anyone who doesn't agree with you as kool-aid drinking cult apologists. I learned in Kindergarten that attacks are not arguments.

  • Reply 326 of 362

    Stinks I preordered 39mm Milanese but then changed my mind to 42mm classic buckle. Classic had softer feel to it. My delivery went from 4-6 weeks to June. Dang I want it now.

  • Reply 327 of 362
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    You just stated "No one is suggesting that "everyone" who wanted a watch would get it on 4/24" so why are you complaining?


     


    Actually, you did.  Those were your words exactly.  


     


    Where in the press release did it say NoSpamMan is guaranteed to get an Apple Watch?


     


    If NoSpamMan orders a watch at 12:02am, NoSpamMan should be guaranteed to get an AppleWatch on 4/24 as the marketing info said.  






    Apple has rarely had the supply to fulfill all demand for preorders. That's the fact of life.


     


    This is about degree, not a generalized statement (about life or otherwise).  


     






    Apple is multinational like you said but they're not going to delay their roll out schedule until demand is met in the initial roll out. That's ludicrous.


     


    Why?






    And you're right, it's not your job to figure it out. It's Apple's job and that's what the results are based on.

     

    We agree on this much.  :-)


     


    [Apologies for the bad quote job on this one. I can't seem to purge it from my browser.]
  • Reply 328 of 362
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

     

     

    You describe anyone who doesn't agree with you as kool-aid drinking cult apologists. I learned in Kindergarten that attacks are not arguments.




    So, Dr.  Is there anything that you would publicly criticize Apple for?  

  • Reply 329 of 362
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    nospamman wrote: »

    I'm just getting really tired of the religious worship aspect that still permeates the space.  I don't know if there is any other corporation in the world that has this kind of devotion and it's kind of creepy sometimes.  I guess the operative question here (among the devotees) is along the lines of, "Is there ANYthing that Apple could do wrong that would generate a legitimate complaint?"

    If the answer to that question is "no," then basically we have a cult.  

    Thats a common troll trope: Apple is a religion.
    nospamman wrote: »

    Apple didn't guarantee apple watches would be available to everyone if they preordered.

    Your complaint is analogous to people complaining about the home team not selling them tickets to the opening day game because it's sold out. The team should have added more seats to the stadium due to the obvious demand.
  • Reply 330 of 362
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    Thats a common troll trope: Apple is a religion.

    Apple didn't guarantee apple watches would be available to everyone if they preordered.



    Your complaint is analogous to people complaining about the home team not selling them tickets to the opening day game because it's sold out. The team should have added more seats to the stadium due to the obvious demand.



    Wow, what a shame that the best you can do is to dismiss my points as "troll" bait.  Does that mean you've exhausted your ability to reason here?

     

    Still waiting to hear what you would publicly criticize Apple for, or have they done everything right over the past few years?  

     

    If you want to be an apologist, at least own it.  Or explain why you're not an apologist or superfan who sees no flaws, by speaking objectively about the issues.  An objective argument might begin with, "Wow, you know you're right.  That was a horrible supply that ran out in mere seconds.  I wonder what happened.  However, .... blah, blah, blah."  

     

    Your persistent defense of all things Apple begins to sound as though your relationship to them is faith based. 

     

    Me?  I'm a realist and Apple dropped the ball here.  If you're unable to discuss this critically then we're done.  

  • Reply 331 of 362

    NoSpamMan is an economic illiterate. While it is disappointing to not have the order filled right on schedule, it is in no way an issue of poor business practice. There may even have been an issue with a supplier overpromising to Apple. Who knows?

  • Reply 332 of 362
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NoSpamMan View Post

     



    So, Dr.  Is there anything that you would publicly criticize Apple for?  




    I've criticized plenty. But not for this.

  • Reply 333 of 362
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    jungmark wrote: »
    Thats a common troll trope: Apple is a religion.
    Apple didn't guarantee apple watches would be available to everyone if they preordered.

    Your complaint is analogous to people complaining about the home team not selling them tickets to the opening day game because it's sold out. The team should have added more seats to the stadium due to the obvious demand.

    Well, not quite analogous. But wait a second.

    Why is NoSpamMan banned? For arguing like he has been in this thread? That would be ridiculous, because he clearly is not trolling, but raising questions and accusations that are a very natural outgrowth of this unusual product launch. He has not been screamingly unreasonable or sinister like many trollish posters we've had who go on for months or are still actively subverting the thread.

    Back to your analogy, because that is the response that we might have worked on with NoSpam. Apple's situation is more like the home team who was refurbishing the stadium and didn't get all the new redesigned seats in from China by opening game. Production SNAFUs, seats were too hard to manufacture, etc., so they sold out tickets too quickly, but they can't talk about why without losing unthinkable amounts of credibility. Better to take the limited fan outrage. And so on.

    Actually, i'm pretty outraged that NoSpam was banned, even though I didn't agree with his argument.

    Edit: I see there's a blank space in his recent post history in this thread. Maybe that was it. Did anyone see it?
  • Reply 334 of 362
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    flaneur wrote: »

    Actually, i'm pretty outraged that NoSpam was banned, even though I didn't agree with his argument.

    He could have been a resurrected previously banned user which would be my guess. I didn't see anything he posted today that was ban-worthy either.
  • Reply 335 of 362
    rk0542rk0542 Posts: 2member

    I also order the black band on a separate order, didn't want the band to slow down the delivery of the watch which is supposed to ship for the 24th.

  • Reply 336 of 362
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    flaneur wrote: »
    Well, not quite analogous. But wait a second.

    Why is NoSpamMan banned? For arguing like he has been in this thread? That would be ridiculous, because he clearly is not trolling, but raising questions and accusations that are a very natural outgrowth of this unusual product launch. He has not been screamingly unreasonable or sinister like many trollish posters we've had who go on for months or are still actively subverting the thread.

    Back to your analogy, because that is the response that we might have worked on with NoSpam. Apple's situation is more like the home team who was refurbishing the stadium and didn't get all the new redesigned seats in from China by opening game. Production SNAFUs, seats were too hard to manufacture, etc., so they sold out tickets too quickly, but they can't talk about why without losing unthinkable amounts of credibility. Better to take the limited fan outrage. And so on.

    Actually, i'm pretty outraged that NoSpam was banned, even though I didn't agree with his argument.

    Edit: I see there's a blank space in his recent post history in this thread. Maybe that was it. Did anyone see it?

    I didn't flag him for anything and I received a "reply from him" notification in my email but don't see his post.

    In any case my original analogy applies. There's a finite number of apple watches available for preorder. It was exhausted.
  • Reply 337 of 362
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    He could have been a resurrected previously banned user which would be my guess. I didn't see anything he posted today that was ban-worthy either.

    Well, I didn't think of that. Still, he just seemed cranky, not Frost-y.
  • Reply 338 of 362
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    flaneur wrote: »
    Why is NoSpamMan banned? For arguing like he has been in this thread? That would be ridiculous, because he clearly is not trolling, but raising questions and accusations that are a very natural outgrowth of this unusual product launch.

    He made a few insulting remarks to who he was replying to and those were removed. It's a temporary ban.
  • Reply 339 of 362
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    He made a few insulting remarks to who he was replying to and those were removed. It's a temporary ban.



    FWIW, I agree with this action. If nothing else he was being a serial antagonist.

  • Reply 340 of 362
    nospamman wrote: »

    I'm an Apple guy.  I've been an Apple guy in a big way, affecting the purchases of thousands of people.  In the old days, when Apple was on the brink of bankruptcy or "failure," whatever you want to call it, I was one of the vocal people telling the minions to hang on and keep believing,

    Those days are gone.

    Apple is one of the biggest/richest corporation in the world.  Steve Jobs did it.  He saved the company and made it a boss, bitchin' totally powerful multinational greater than any other tech company, bigger than Exxon.  Number 1 on the Dow.  

    Apple doesn't need (or deserve) apologists anymore.  You and I don't need to apologize for batteries that catch on fire, or logic boards with capacitors that leak, or catastrophic hard drive failures, or any of the problems that any tech company will face in this industry.

    So stop it.

    Stop apologizing for Apple.  

    Hold them to the standard that THEY say they're committing to.

    This is not spin doctoring or trolling or any of that (and cynicism is healthy), but when a loyal customer stays up to play the game of Apple, the midnight ordering game and is not told the truth, we have to say something folks.  The TRUTH was that Apple knew they couldn't fill 97% (or more) of the orders that came in during the first few MINUTES.  Not even hours, but minutes.  It might be more accurate to talk about seconds, actually.  The first 300-500 seconds.

    This is on them and we don't have to pipe up and defend this wealthy, powerful multinational and pretend as if it's well meaning.  They don't need us anymore.  

    So stop apologizing for them.    That's Tim-o's job.

    I'm in the choir, in the family, and we should be able to speak honestly here and not be branded as heretics.

    You seem genuinely unhappy with Apple, Inc.
    You have two non-exclusive choices to improve your situation:
    1.) Contact Apple directly.
    2.) Stop buying from Apple.

    The following actions will not solve any of your problems:
    1.) Posting rants on Internet forums
    2.) Making sweeping overgeneralizations about Apple
    3.) Trying to win over people by claiming you're an "Apple guy"
    4.) Arguing with people who don't agree with your point of view

    Yes, I know you're banned at the moment, but feel free to respond when the ban is lifted.
    I would like to understand what drove you to start ranting here. What did you hope to accomplish? I can't see anything to be gained by that. Suppose everyone agreed with you. Would your situation change? Would "Tim-o" do his job according to your standards?

    I personally think you're just looking for people to agree with you. Maybe you're super frustrated with Apple. Maybe you need for strangers to validate your point of view (good luck with that). I suppose you could tow the line about "having a discussion" but coming to these forums with your attitude, and frankly, the personal comtempt you seem to have towards complete strangers is no way to have a discussion. It's unhealthy, unproductive, and ultimately self-defeating.
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