Guns make it easier to kill people than just about anything else one could name. The murder rate in the UK is 1 per 100,000 population. In the US it's 4.7. That doesn't seem to support the idea of guns leveling any playing fields between the weak and the strong. Rape statistics don't support your gun defense assertion either, in fact it's a complete nonsense. The number of Police reported rapes in the US is 27.1 per 100,000 versus a near identical 27.7 for the UK. So no, guns don't prevent rape. Lets not forget that it is reported that the perpetrators of rapes are usually someone known to the victim in the vast majority of cases
You should also respond to comment number 55, he posted this link:
Not to minimize the seriousness but that is birdshot which usually has much less gunpowder than say buckshot. Same stuff that Dick Cheney uses on his friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadbag
That was very close range (based on the spread pattern). That will kill you at that range.
You are missing the point. If the kid who shot him had a regular handgun (or a buckshot round, not a birdshot round), the bullet/buckshot would have gone right through the plastic iPhone 5C.
You are missing the point. If the kid who shot him had a regular handgun (or a buckshot round, not a birdshot round), the bullet/buckshot would have gone right through the plastic iPhone 5C.
I am not convinced a 9mm would have gone through it. The 5c against a person (as opposed to a hard item like concrete) might very well deflect/absorb a 9mm round. Especially a hollow point. Polycarbonate is very strong and deformable and there is a metal plate behind it to back it up.
And yes, I have a clue. I sell reloading equipment and firearms accessories and have been to many handgun classes and have shot lots of things in 'test' mode. Never shot a 5c though.
The bird shot is a clue as well. An ounce of bird shot weighs more than a 9mm and this birdshot hardly spread at all and so it hit as more or less a single blob and the velocities will be similar between the birdshot and the 9mm.
Guns make it easier to kill people than just about anything else one could name. The murder rate in the UK is 1 per 100,000 population. In the US it's 4.7. That doesn't seem to support the idea of guns leveling any playing fields between the weak and the strong. Rape statistics don't support your gun defense assertion either, in fact it's a complete nonsense. The number of Police reported rapes in the US is 27.1 per 100,000 versus a near identical 27.7 for the UK. So no, guns don't prevent rape. Lets not forget that it is reported that the perpetrators of rapes are usually someone known to the victim in the vast majority of cases
Your data are/is useless to try and show anything about guns. Criminilogocal studies consistently show that the areas of the US with the highest rate of firearms ownership also have lower violent crime rates. The areas with the highest rates of violent crime have the most stringent "gun control."
And, yes, guns do prevent rape. Not all rapes, but there are plenty of cases where women with a firearm are assaulted and a rape does not occur because the woman is able to protect herself with the firearm.
And if you think firearms are not available in the UK, think again. The Guardian reported "Firearms: cheap, easy to get and on a street near you"
And lastly, murder/homicide is reported differently in the UK than the US. In the UK crimes are reported on the outcome of the investigation and trial. In the US crimes are reported on "initial data" meaning initial reporting of the crime. As one investigator put it, "The murder rate in the UK according to US standards is double or higher than their reported rate. It may be impossible to produce an actual apples to apples comparison number from official sources."
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe that the majority of firearms related deaths, non-suicide, non-accidental, in the US are criminal on criminal. Drug gangs knocking each other off and that sort of thing. This jives with the criminological evidences that the areas with more firearms ownership tend to have less violent crime and that millions of crimes are averted each year in the US by use of a firearm.
Criminilogocal studies consistently show that the areas of the US with the highest rate of firearms ownership also have lower violent crime rates. The areas with the highest rates of violent crime have the most stringent "gun control."
And lastly, murder/homicide is reported differently in the UK than the US.
I remember Steve Jobs talking about the polycarbonate iBook during the MacWorld 99 keynote as being "the stuff they make bullet proof vests out of." Perhaps they should start making bullet proof vests out of "the stuff they make iPhones out of."
Your data are/is useless to try and show anything about guns. Criminilogocal studies consistently show that the areas of the US with the highest rate of firearms ownership also have lower violent crime rates. The areas with the highest rates of violent crime have the most stringent "gun control."
Please come up with some statistics because I believe that's totally and absolutely wrong.
While I admit that I thought it was the opposite (more guns=more violent crime), taking a quick look at the 2012 FBI violent crime statistics, I'd say it's neither. While someone who knows far more about statistics than I do could probably do a more accurate analysis, if we look at large cities in places that have high and low gun ownership, there doesn't seem to be any correlation.
For Texas, where I think most people believe there are the most guns, we see both high and low crime rates, with Houston at 993 violent crimes per 100,000 people and Austin with only 409. I suspect a greater indicator of violent crime may be poverty levels than gun ownership.
City / # of violent crimes per 100,000 people
Detroit 2123
St. Louis 1776
Baltimore 1405
Cleveland 1384
Atlanta 1379
Milwaukee 1294
Nashville 1216
Indianapolis 1185
Washington, D.C. 1178
Miami 1172
Philadelphia 1160
Newark, NJ 1155
Baton Rouge 1083
Houston 993
Minneapolis 992
Tulsa 990
Oklahoma City 919
Boston 835
Anchorage, Alaska 829
New Orleans 815
Las Vegas 784
Albuquerque 750
San Francisco 704
Dallas 675
Winston-Salem 663
Charlotte, NC 648
New York City 639
Phoenix, AZ 637
Jacksonville, FL 617
Denver 616
Louisville Metro, KY 599
Omaha 595
Ft. Worth 587
Fresno, CA 543
Portland 517
San Antonio 503
Los Angeles 481
El Paso 473
Raleigh, NC 423
Austin 409
Accurate gun ownership statistics are hard to come by, but most surveys show that the highest rates of gun ownership are in the South, by those who identify as conservative Republicans. Rates go down as education increases. But rates go up with income, up to the $75,000 level.
In 2013, an article in the New York Times from the "General Social Survey" indicated that gun ownership rates were actually substantially dropping (hard to believe, but that's what they claimed).
Quote:
The household gun ownership rate has fallen from an average of 50 percent in the 1970s to 49 percent in the 1980s, 43 percent in the 1990s and 35 percent in the 2000s, according to the survey data, analyzed by The New York Times.
Highest murder rates in the world? How about the U.S. being the 111th country in the world in per capita murders. Plus you have to remember that this includes gun control cities such as Washington, DC, Chicago, etc.
I stand corrected, we are the 111th, but almost every country above us on the list is in the third world or in Latin American countries where drug gangs are prevalent. All European countries are well below us as well as other countries with low gun ownership rates, due to tight laws.
Our rate is 4.7 per 100,000 people.
UK and France is 1.0
Italy, Austria, The Netherlands and New Zealand is 0.9
Denmark, Spain and Germany is 0.8
Sweden is 0.7
Japan is 0.3
So either the problem is high gun ownership rates or guns have nothing to do with it ("guns don't kill people, people do") and we're simply a far more violent people. Take your pick.
I stand corrected, we are the 111th, but almost every country above us on the list is in the third world or in Latin American countries where drug gangs are prevalent. All European countries are well below us as well as other countries with low gun ownership rates, due to tight laws.
Our rate is 4.7 per 100,000 people.
UK and France is 1.0
Italy, Austria, The Netherlands and New Zealand is 0.9
Denmark, Spain and Germany is 0.8
Sweden is 0.7
Japan is 0.3
So either the problem is high gun ownership rates or guns have nothing to do with it ("guns don't kill people, people do") and we're simply a far more violent people. Take your pick.
The UK rate is actually much higher than reported, as they only report AFTER investigation and trial are finished. Bullet ridden body is found in the UK (at least in England), and no one is ever charged/convicted of murder, it does not go down as a murder in the UK books. Same would be counted as murder in the US. You can Google this. All violent crime reporting is done to much different standards than in the US. There are plenty of articles about this.
And you excuse for Latin America high rates also applies in the US: a large percentage of homicides committed with firearms is committed by drug gangs / to control drug trade.
The US murder rate and violent crime rate has gone down significantly in the last 20 or 30 years but there are many more guns sold now. Much research has been done on this (US govt data as well as Pew Research data). Google an article called "Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet"
Chicago, a bastion of very strict gun control, has almost 3 times the rate of homicide as the whole of Illinois. Typically the worst places for gun control also have more so-called gun violence. I am not saying it is caused by it. It could be a coincidence, or it could also be caused by it, or it could be that those areas ruled by politicians who tend to favor strict gun control also tend to favor policies that induce violence (poverty programs, etc.). Who knows.
You can Google "More Guns Less Crime" and find John Lott's research as well as work written against his work. You have to figure out which you believe but there is significant data to show that as more states allow concealed carry by citizens, their violent crime rates go down.
Accurate gun ownership statistics are hard to come by, but most surveys show that the highest rates of gun ownership are in the South, by those who identify as conservative Republicans. Rates go down as education increases. But rates go up with income, up to the $75,000 level.
In 2013, an article in the New York Times from the "General Social Survey" indicated that gun ownership rates were actually substantially dropping (hard to believe, but that's what they claimed).
Interesting... So guns does NOT make it simpler to kill than if using a knife or similar? Someone needs to tell that to the armed forces of the world, since they seem to be convinced of the opposite... And btw if it is just as easy to kill with a knife or similar, why does so many want a gun for "protection"?
The fact is that a gun is far more efficient weapon than a knife. And - where do you think criminals get their guns? Pretty much all guns used in crimes started out as legally sold guns, which at some point my have been stolen - or the legal owner crossed the line. If you want less guns in the hands of criminals, you have to cut their supply - the LEGAL guns.
Interesting... So guns does NOT make it simpler to kill than if using a knife or similar? Someone needs to tell that to the armed forces of the world, since they seem to be convinced of the opposite... And btw if it is just as easy to kill with a knife or similar, why does so many want a gun for "protection"?
The fact is that a gun is far more efficient weapon than a knife. And - where do you think criminals get their guns? Pretty much all guns used in crimes started out as legally sold guns, which at some point my have been stolen - or the legal owner crossed the line. If you want less guns in the hands of criminals, you have to cut their supply - the LEGAL guns.
I agree we have to cut the supply but we have the Constitution that says we can't. But then again drugs are illegal and that worked so well.
Guns make it easier to kill people than just about anything else one could name. The murder rate in the UK is 1 per 100,000 population. In the US it's 4.7. That doesn't seem to support the idea of guns leveling any playing fields between the weak and the strong. Rape statistics don't support your gun defense assertion either, in fact it's a complete nonsense. The number of Police reported rapes in the US is 27.1 per 100,000 versus a near identical 27.7 for the UK. So no, guns don't prevent rape. Lets not forget that it is reported that the perpetrators of rapes are usually someone known to the victim in the vast majority of cases
And you don't know sh.t about US murder rate by legally owned guns. Most of murders/homicides by guns were illegal guns which means everyone with money can buy an illegal gun. People got killed in US by legal guns were even less than by baseball bats or kitchen knives. You should stop commenting things about US from the the country 1/2 way around the world.
I stand corrected, we are the 111th, but almost every country above us on the list is in the third world or in Latin American countries where drug gangs are prevalent. All European countries are well below us as well as other countries with low gun ownership rates, due to tight laws.
Our rate is 4.7 per 100,000 people.
UK and France is 1.0
Italy, Austria, The Netherlands and New Zealand is 0.9
Denmark, Spain and Germany is 0.8
Sweden is 0.7
Japan is 0.3
So either the problem is high gun ownership rates or guns have nothing to do with it ("guns don't kill people, people do") and we're simply a far more violent people. Take your pick.
The problem is that at the place with highly controlled gun ownership, more murders by guns than other places, ex: Chicago. "We're far more violent people"? Well, gang related murders are #1 in this country and Gangbangers don't represent us or people in this country.
I remember back in 2007 when I had an iBook G4 12", tiny little machine but when S.Jobs introduced it he said that the polycarbonate case was made of the same material that was used in bulletproof vests. I was on a super loaded bus and the thin fabric messenger bag I had it in got behind the massive bus door as it opened and pressed the laptop on its edge against the bus wall. I assumed my laptop would be broken in half given the force of the door, but it actually emerged unscathed. I later saw a stress test where they actually tried to drill with a 3 inch diameter drill through that laptop and it took them a good minute to even pierce through the shell. I would assume Jony Ive reached in his bag of magic materials for iPhone 5c and picked a similar type of polycarbonate. Impressive!
Comments
You should also respond to comment number 55, he posted this link:
You should also respond to comment number 55, he posted this link:
Should I?
I haven't followed the link so I don't feel qualified to comment.
Yeah, you should totally watch the video first, though.
…it can’t be denied that the U.S. has the highest rate of gun ownership of any civilized country in the world and one of the highest murder rates.
It also can’t be denied that there’s no correlation.
next Samsung ad: our phones are also bullet-proof!
Right shut your yap!
Not to minimize the seriousness but that is birdshot which usually has much less gunpowder than say buckshot. Same stuff that Dick Cheney uses on his friends.
That was very close range (based on the spread pattern). That will kill you at that range.
You are missing the point. If the kid who shot him had a regular handgun (or a buckshot round, not a birdshot round), the bullet/buckshot would have gone right through the plastic iPhone 5C.
I am not convinced a 9mm would have gone through it. The 5c against a person (as opposed to a hard item like concrete) might very well deflect/absorb a 9mm round. Especially a hollow point. Polycarbonate is very strong and deformable and there is a metal plate behind it to back it up.
And yes, I have a clue. I sell reloading equipment and firearms accessories and have been to many handgun classes and have shot lots of things in 'test' mode. Never shot a 5c though.
The bird shot is a clue as well. An ounce of bird shot weighs more than a 9mm and this birdshot hardly spread at all and so it hit as more or less a single blob and the velocities will be similar between the birdshot and the 9mm.
Was that an attempt at comedy?
Guns make it easier to kill people than just about anything else one could name. The murder rate in the UK is 1 per 100,000 population. In the US it's 4.7. That doesn't seem to support the idea of guns leveling any playing fields between the weak and the strong. Rape statistics don't support your gun defense assertion either, in fact it's a complete nonsense. The number of Police reported rapes in the US is 27.1 per 100,000 versus a near identical 27.7 for the UK. So no, guns don't prevent rape. Lets not forget that it is reported that the perpetrators of rapes are usually someone known to the victim in the vast majority of cases
Your data are/is useless to try and show anything about guns. Criminilogocal studies consistently show that the areas of the US with the highest rate of firearms ownership also have lower violent crime rates. The areas with the highest rates of violent crime have the most stringent "gun control."
And, yes, guns do prevent rape. Not all rapes, but there are plenty of cases where women with a firearm are assaulted and a rape does not occur because the woman is able to protect herself with the firearm.
And if you think firearms are not available in the UK, think again. The Guardian reported "Firearms: cheap, easy to get and on a street near you"
And lastly, murder/homicide is reported differently in the UK than the US. In the UK crimes are reported on the outcome of the investigation and trial. In the US crimes are reported on "initial data" meaning initial reporting of the crime. As one investigator put it, "The murder rate in the UK according to US standards is double or higher than their reported rate. It may be impossible to produce an actual apples to apples comparison number from official sources."
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe that the majority of firearms related deaths, non-suicide, non-accidental, in the US are criminal on criminal. Drug gangs knocking each other off and that sort of thing. This jives with the criminological evidences that the areas with more firearms ownership tend to have less violent crime and that millions of crimes are averted each year in the US by use of a firearm.
Criminilogocal studies consistently show that the areas of the US with the highest rate of firearms ownership also have lower violent crime rates. The areas with the highest rates of violent crime have the most stringent "gun control."
Meanwhile, on Airstrip One…
Quote:Your data are/is useless to try and show anything about guns. Criminilogocal studies consistently show that the areas of the US with the highest rate of firearms ownership also have lower violent crime rates. The areas with the highest rates of violent crime have the most stringent "gun control."
Please come up with some statistics because I believe that's totally and absolutely wrong.
While I admit that I thought it was the opposite (more guns=more violent crime), taking a quick look at the 2012 FBI violent crime statistics, I'd say it's neither. While someone who knows far more about statistics than I do could probably do a more accurate analysis, if we look at large cities in places that have high and low gun ownership, there doesn't seem to be any correlation.
For Texas, where I think most people believe there are the most guns, we see both high and low crime rates, with Houston at 993 violent crimes per 100,000 people and Austin with only 409. I suspect a greater indicator of violent crime may be poverty levels than gun ownership.
City / # of violent crimes per 100,000 people
Detroit 2123
St. Louis 1776
Baltimore 1405
Cleveland 1384
Atlanta 1379
Milwaukee 1294
Nashville 1216
Indianapolis 1185
Washington, D.C. 1178
Miami 1172
Philadelphia 1160
Newark, NJ 1155
Baton Rouge 1083
Houston 993
Minneapolis 992
Tulsa 990
Oklahoma City 919
Anchorage, Alaska 829
New Orleans 815
Las Vegas 784
Albuquerque 750
San Francisco 704
Dallas 675
Charlotte, NC 648
New York City 639
Phoenix, AZ 637
Jacksonville, FL 617
Denver 616
Louisville Metro, KY 599
Omaha 595
Ft. Worth 587
Fresno, CA 543
Portland 517
San Antonio 503
Los Angeles 481
El Paso 473
Raleigh, NC 423
Austin 409
Accurate gun ownership statistics are hard to come by, but most surveys show that the highest rates of gun ownership are in the South, by those who identify as conservative Republicans. Rates go down as education increases. But rates go up with income, up to the $75,000 level.
In 2013, an article in the New York Times from the "General Social Survey" indicated that gun ownership rates were actually substantially dropping (hard to believe, but that's what they claimed).
Highest murder rates in the world? How about the U.S. being the 111th country in the world in per capita murders. Plus you have to remember that this includes gun control cities such as Washington, DC, Chicago, etc.
I stand corrected, we are the 111th, but almost every country above us on the list is in the third world or in Latin American countries where drug gangs are prevalent. All European countries are well below us as well as other countries with low gun ownership rates, due to tight laws.
Our rate is 4.7 per 100,000 people.
UK and France is 1.0
Italy, Austria, The Netherlands and New Zealand is 0.9
Denmark, Spain and Germany is 0.8
Sweden is 0.7
Japan is 0.3
So either the problem is high gun ownership rates or guns have nothing to do with it ("guns don't kill people, people do") and we're simply a far more violent people. Take your pick.
I stand corrected, we are the 111th, but almost every country above us on the list is in the third world or in Latin American countries where drug gangs are prevalent. All European countries are well below us as well as other countries with low gun ownership rates, due to tight laws.
Our rate is 4.7 per 100,000 people.
UK and France is 1.0
Italy, Austria, The Netherlands and New Zealand is 0.9
Denmark, Spain and Germany is 0.8
Sweden is 0.7
Japan is 0.3
So either the problem is high gun ownership rates or guns have nothing to do with it ("guns don't kill people, people do") and we're simply a far more violent people. Take your pick.
The UK rate is actually much higher than reported, as they only report AFTER investigation and trial are finished. Bullet ridden body is found in the UK (at least in England), and no one is ever charged/convicted of murder, it does not go down as a murder in the UK books. Same would be counted as murder in the US. You can Google this. All violent crime reporting is done to much different standards than in the US. There are plenty of articles about this.
And you excuse for Latin America high rates also applies in the US: a large percentage of homicides committed with firearms is committed by drug gangs / to control drug trade.
The US murder rate and violent crime rate has gone down significantly in the last 20 or 30 years but there are many more guns sold now. Much research has been done on this (US govt data as well as Pew Research data). Google an article called "Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet"
Chicago, a bastion of very strict gun control, has almost 3 times the rate of homicide as the whole of Illinois. Typically the worst places for gun control also have more so-called gun violence. I am not saying it is caused by it. It could be a coincidence, or it could also be caused by it, or it could be that those areas ruled by politicians who tend to favor strict gun control also tend to favor policies that induce violence (poverty programs, etc.). Who knows.
You can Google "More Guns Less Crime" and find John Lott's research as well as work written against his work. You have to figure out which you believe but there is significant data to show that as more states allow concealed carry by citizens, their violent crime rates go down.
Accurate gun ownership statistics are hard to come by, but most surveys show that the highest rates of gun ownership are in the South, by those who identify as conservative Republicans. Rates go down as education increases. But rates go up with income, up to the $75,000 level.
In 2013, an article in the New York Times from the "General Social Survey" indicated that gun ownership rates were actually substantially dropping (hard to believe, but that's what they claimed).
Various surveys
http://www.statisticbrain.com/gun-ownership-statistics-demographics/
http://usliberals.about.com/od/Election2012Factors/a/Gun-Owners-As-Percentage-Of-Each-States-Population.htm Note that the top 4 states with the most, and 6 out of the top 10 are not in the South (7 if W Virginia is removed from the South) according to these numbers (2007)
and one more on guns vs crime
http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gun-crime-continues-to-decrease-despite-increase-in-gun-ownership/
The fact is that a gun is far more efficient weapon than a knife. And - where do you think criminals get their guns? Pretty much all guns used in crimes started out as legally sold guns, which at some point my have been stolen - or the legal owner crossed the line. If you want less guns in the hands of criminals, you have to cut their supply - the LEGAL guns.
He misses a lot. He's also completely full of shit.
You fucking don't know crap about calibers, just shut the fck up. .22 can't even kill the damn wild turkey...
Was that an attempt at comedy?
Guns make it easier to kill people than just about anything else one could name. The murder rate in the UK is 1 per 100,000 population. In the US it's 4.7. That doesn't seem to support the idea of guns leveling any playing fields between the weak and the strong. Rape statistics don't support your gun defense assertion either, in fact it's a complete nonsense. The number of Police reported rapes in the US is 27.1 per 100,000 versus a near identical 27.7 for the UK. So no, guns don't prevent rape. Lets not forget that it is reported that the perpetrators of rapes are usually someone known to the victim in the vast majority of cases
And you don't know sh.t about US murder rate by legally owned guns. Most of murders/homicides by guns were illegal guns which means everyone with money can buy an illegal gun. People got killed in US by legal guns were even less than by baseball bats or kitchen knives. You should stop commenting things about US from the the country 1/2 way around the world.
I stand corrected, we are the 111th, but almost every country above us on the list is in the third world or in Latin American countries where drug gangs are prevalent. All European countries are well below us as well as other countries with low gun ownership rates, due to tight laws.
Our rate is 4.7 per 100,000 people.
UK and France is 1.0
Italy, Austria, The Netherlands and New Zealand is 0.9
Denmark, Spain and Germany is 0.8
Sweden is 0.7
Japan is 0.3
So either the problem is high gun ownership rates or guns have nothing to do with it ("guns don't kill people, people do") and we're simply a far more violent people. Take your pick.
The problem is that at the place with highly controlled gun ownership, more murders by guns than other places, ex: Chicago. "We're far more violent people"? Well, gang related murders are #1 in this country and Gangbangers don't represent us or people in this country.