It would be fun to go back a version-life in the forums to see which people complaining about the switch from Helvetica now were complaining about the switch to Helvetica then.
And also to see which people saying San Francisco is perfect now were saying Helvetica was perfect then.
That's the mindless hater in the first sentence, and the mindless fanboy in the second, just in case I need to make the point any clearer.
I can tell the difference, when there's a side-by-side comparison. The change is utterly insufficient. iOS still looks awful and is still hard to read. iOS 7 jumped the shark big time and Apple is still pretending everything is fine.
If Apple really wants to improve legibility and the user experience, they should enforce a minimum point size rule for app developers. Some of the text is so ridiculously small that it causes me eyestrain. When I was a graphic designer there was an unspoken rule that no type gets set under 8 pts if you really expect anyone to read it. It seems like a lot of app developers don't really give a damn about legibility. They'll just keep making the text as tiny as possible so that they can cram it all in one spot.
It's very easy to adjust text size in the accessibility section of settings. On the other hand, I hate when app developers don't make use of the larger screen and resolution capability by simply making everything larger rather than getting more in the screen.
It's very easy to adjust text size in the accessibility section of settings. On the other hand, I hate when app developers don't make use of the larger screen and resolution capability by simply making everything larger rather than getting more in the screen.
Yes, of corse it is, but changing the text size in the accessibility section does not change the font sizes that are hard coded into apps by developers. That's why Apple should institute a minimum font size requirement that app developers must adhere to.
Exactly. Ridiculously small in many many cases, including within some of Apple's own apps.
More so in 3rd party apps where the font size is down to 4 point, sometimes less. And reading on a phone screen doesn't magically mean that the type is more readable than in print. In my publishing days, 6 point was the minimum size to be readable. I'd like 8 point minimum in iOS, and still include the option to Bold it like we have now.
We aren't all 18 years old.
I never get that "18 years old" throw away line. Who hadn't heard of, wait for it, eyeglasses?
Genuinely surprised Apple did the adjusting keyboard type.
It only makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow
I can't tell the difference. What's the point?
From what I understand you change something because there's a noticeable difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondRoca
If you can't tell the difference, then you just move on. Others can tell the difference, which is why it was changed.
I'm a graphics guy and have a decade of experience (no, not a ton, but enough) working with type, so I do appreciate what a great font can do. Admittedly though, it's hard for me to pick out all the little details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt
I'm sure Apple has escaped some sort of licensing fee by adding an extra curve here and there for their new fan dangled unnecessary font...
If I had to hazard a guess, this is the biggest reason they changed it. When you think, just to license Helvetica Neue Thin - NOT including Helvetica Neue Thin Italic - for an app is $350, Linotype is probably seriously sticking it to Apple for licensing. I'm guessing they'll save several million a year at least on this move.
Exactly, why make a big deal about it when almost no one will notice.
Without looking side by side, I can hardly tell the difference other then seeing lower case on the keyboard now, but even that, a font change? I don't think most would even notice a font change without being told. You upgrade your phone, see the new screen and? I just don't think it's much of a minor deal. Maybe the switch is really a Licencing thing for Apple. My Dad didn't eve know iOS9 came out yesterday and he knows more of what's going on with Apple a little more so then the general public. A Minor font change? I bet if I asked him, he would have no idea what I'm talking about.
Thank gawd. Helvetica is the most overrated typeface ever. So overrated people made a movie about it. Nice to see a new font, especially one designed in-house.
Without looking side by side, I can hardly tell the difference other then seeing lower case on the keyboard now, but even that, a font change? I don't think most would even notice a font change without being told. You upgrade your phone, see the new screen and? I just don't think it's much of a minor deal. Maybe the switch is really a Licencing thing for Apple. My Dad didn't eve know iOS9 came out yesterday and he knows more of what's going on with Apple a little more so then the general public. A Minor font change? I bet if I asked him, he would have no idea what I'm talking about.
San Francisco is more legible on-screen. There are some issues with kerning yet, but on the whole, my immediate impression upon updating, before I remembered that they'd changed the font, was that the text felt...different. More spacious.
I never get that "18 years old" throw away line. Who hadn't heard of, wait for it, eyeglasses?
You're under forty.
Reading glasses suck. Having to take off your glasses (let alone pull out and put on reading glasses) just to read a fucking text message sucks.
Anything that prolongs the time before this is necessary, or makes it unnecessary in edge cases where your eyes are tired and slow to adjust, or where ambient lighting is fucking with your vision, is a godsend.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, don't worry. It'll hit you by mid-forty. People don't spend much time talking to younger people about it, because it's just a plain fact of life that everybody deals with. It's like your mom never talked to you about menopause.
Reading glasses suck. Having to take off your glasses (let alone pull out and put on reading glasses) just to read a fucking text message sucks.
Anything that prolongs the time before this is necessary, or makes it unnecessary in edge cases where your eyes are tired and slow to adjust, or where ambient lighting is fucking with your vision, is a godsend.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, don't worry. It'll hit you by mid-forty. People don't spend much time talking to younger people about it, because it's just a plain fact of life that everybody deals with. It's like your mom never. talked to you about menopause.
66, with 67 looming ???? AND I wear glasses, for about the last 20. There's that phrase about making assumptions? Spot on.
"Reading glasses suck. Having to take off your glasses (let alone pull out and put on reading glasses) just to read a fucking text message sucks."
Then you buy continuous curve prescriptions that seamlessly transition like I have done since forever. Things have progressed since the monocle. Talk to your optometrist. She set me up with awesome prescription Oakleys I hadn't even known were available for my sailing.
"Reading glasses suck. Having to take off your glasses (let alone pull out and put on reading glasses) just to read a fucking text message sucks."
Then you buy continuous curve prescriptions that seamlessly transition like I have done since forever. Things have progressed since the monocle. Talk to your optometrist. She set me up with awesome prescription Oakleys I hadn't even known were available for my sailing.
I'm not quite there yet. I'm in that five-year transition period of the early forties where I don't need reading glasses, but the eyes adjusting to various distances takes long enough to be annoying.
Comments
It would be fun to go back a version-life in the forums to see which people complaining about the switch from Helvetica now were complaining about the switch to Helvetica then.
And also to see which people saying San Francisco is perfect now were saying Helvetica was perfect then.
That's the mindless hater in the first sentence, and the mindless fanboy in the second, just in case I need to make the point any clearer.
Over 100 posts arguing about a font? I think I’ll stick with professional wrestling.
It's very easy to adjust text size in the accessibility section of settings. On the other hand, I hate when app developers don't make use of the larger screen and resolution capability by simply making everything larger rather than getting more in the screen.
It's very easy to adjust text size in the accessibility section of settings. On the other hand, I hate when app developers don't make use of the larger screen and resolution capability by simply making everything larger rather than getting more in the screen.
Yes, of corse it is, but changing the text size in the accessibility section does not change the font sizes that are hard coded into apps by developers. That's why Apple should institute a minimum font size requirement that app developers must adhere to.
Genuinely surprised Apple did the adjusting keyboard type.
It only makes sense.
I can't tell the difference. What's the point?
From what I understand you change something because there's a noticeable difference.
If you can't tell the difference, then you just move on. Others can tell the difference, which is why it was changed.
I'm a graphics guy and have a decade of experience (no, not a ton, but enough) working with type, so I do appreciate what a great font can do. Admittedly though, it's hard for me to pick out all the little details.
I'm sure Apple has escaped some sort of licensing fee by adding an extra curve here and there for their new fan dangled unnecessary font...
If I had to hazard a guess, this is the biggest reason they changed it. When you think, just to license Helvetica Neue Thin - NOT including Helvetica Neue Thin Italic - for an app is $350, Linotype is probably seriously sticking it to Apple for licensing. I'm guessing they'll save several million a year at least on this move.
Exactly, why make a big deal about it when almost no one will notice.
Without looking side by side, I can hardly tell the difference other then seeing lower case on the keyboard now, but even that, a font change? I don't think most would even notice a font change without being told. You upgrade your phone, see the new screen and? I just don't think it's much of a minor deal. Maybe the switch is really a Licencing thing for Apple. My Dad didn't eve know iOS9 came out yesterday and he knows more of what's going on with Apple a little more so then the general public. A Minor font change? I bet if I asked him, he would have no idea what I'm talking about.
Thank gawd. Helvetica is the most overrated typeface ever. So overrated people made a movie about it. Nice to see a new font, especially one designed in-house.
San Francisco is more legible on-screen. There are some issues with kerning yet, but on the whole, my immediate impression upon updating, before I remembered that they'd changed the font, was that the text felt...different. More spacious.
Not as pretty, IMO, but faster at a glance.
You're under forty.
Reading glasses suck. Having to take off your glasses (let alone pull out and put on reading glasses) just to read a fucking text message sucks.
Anything that prolongs the time before this is necessary, or makes it unnecessary in edge cases where your eyes are tired and slow to adjust, or where ambient lighting is fucking with your vision, is a godsend.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, don't worry. It'll hit you by mid-forty. People don't spend much time talking to younger people about it, because it's just a plain fact of life that everybody deals with. It's like your mom never talked to you about menopause.
"Younger people"? Ritflmao
Okay... I'm not in a position to tell you anything about age-related issues, I guess.
You've never seen what I describe?
Then you buy continuous curve prescriptions that seamlessly transition like I have done since forever. Things have progressed since the monocle. Talk to your optometrist. She set me up with awesome prescription Oakleys I hadn't even known were available for my sailing.
I'm not quite there yet. I'm in that five-year transition period of the early forties where I don't need reading glasses, but the eyes adjusting to various distances takes long enough to be annoying.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. My whole office has already Googled how to change it back.
Fn hilarious.