Apple confirms Confederate flag ban in App Store, says war games have to change art

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  • Reply 61 of 292
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,985member
    Surely anything relating to historical usage such as book or a game set in that period should be able to use the flag just as a movie about WWII uses all the Nazi paraphernalia. However, any use of that flag in modern settings is as ridiculous as displaying a Swastika. It is all about common sense surely.
  • Reply 62 of 292
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 18,953member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    So a bakery isn't a private company that can choose to sell or not sell whatever they want? There's a difference between choosing not to bake a cake decorated with the rainbow flag and selling a cake to a gay person.

    Sure, they can.

     

    But I think the issue there was the intrusive -- and unnecessary -- legislation by some right-wing governors that was clearly in the nature of political meddling into what private businesses could or could not do.

  • Reply 63 of 292
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,590member
    rogifan wrote: »
    Says who? That certainly isn't a universally held opinion.

    I say it and to put a general stamp of immorality on the lgbt community is what is immoral. Embracing people for what they naturally are is good but has nothing to do with morality. Stealing from the poor is immoral.
  • Reply 64 of 292
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Here's another question I have. If Apple is removing apps in accordance with App Store rules how in the hell did these apps end up on the App Store in the first place? Who initially approved them?
  • Reply 65 of 292
    msanttimsantti Posts: 1,377member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    I'm just waiting for the US flag and the Union Jack to be gone. Plenty of people find them offensive too.

    Obama is working on that right now.

  • Reply 66 of 292
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Sure, they can.

    But I think the issue there was the intrusive -- and unnecessary -- legislation by some right-wing governors that was clearly in the nature of political meddling into what private businesses could or could not do.

    No they were just trying to protect private businesses rights and freedom of religion.
  • Reply 67 of 292
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post





    Nope, you don't get to shove me in a box. Slavery and racism were and are wrong. But so is censorship.



    I am the fiercest opponent of censorship. To quote Voltaire, "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." I would strongly oppose any efforts to criminalize confederate flags, but I fully support the long overdue decision to remove them from government buildings.

     

    In the case of Apple, they long ago set a precedent that their App Store would not be a free for all and that they reserved the right to exclude material they found objectionable including porn, hate speech, etc. In this case, as I've already noted, it remains to be seen exactly what their intentions are, but I suspect they will allow games and apps with confederate flags depending on the context. As they have in th past, they will probably be a bit overzealous at first and make corrections later.

  • Reply 68 of 292
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    And what if the bakery says they aren't serving to people of a certain skin colour, or religion, or sex/gender, or if they have certain disabilities? We have laws that prevent that sort of discrimination but we don't have those laws to prevent against discriminating against LGBT. Does that seem fair? Should we either help protect the wide range of classifications in a complex society or drop them all and let the free market decide?

    No Spiders Or Visigoths.

    There is a difference between discriminating against a gay person and gay marriage. I'm not aware of any bakery or other business the refused to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. In fact how would these businesses even know what somebody's sexual orientation was?
  • Reply 69 of 292
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,590member
    Surely anything relating to historical usage such as book or a game set in that period should be able to use the flag just as a movie about WWII uses all the Nazi paraphernalia. However, any use of that flag in modern settings is as ridiculous as displaying a Swastika. It is all about common sense surely.

    The confederate flag is being used today, the swastika is not. The context is different.
  • Reply 70 of 292
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post





    Nope, you don't get to shove me in a box. Slavery and racism were and are wrong. But so is censorship.

     

    It's easy to say that now because it is not socially acceptable to say otherwise. What would your positions have been had you lived in the South during the 1960s or the 1850s?

  • Reply 71 of 292
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,590member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    And what if the bakery says they aren't serving to people of a certain skin colour, or religion, or sex/gender, or if they have certain disabilities? We have laws that prevent that sort of discrimination but we don't have those laws to prevent against discriminating against LGBT. Does that seem fair? Should we either help protect the wide range of classifications in a complex society or drop them all and let the free market decide?

    No Spiders Or Visigoths.


    Howdy. Been a while :)
  • Reply 72 of 292
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,235member
    The sooner we stop edifying a treasonous movement, the better. The South was wrong, period. Most of those who fought for the South were not evil, just on the wrong side of history. Their resting places should be respected, but not used to glorify the cause of a State's right to enslave other humans. The signs and symbols of this sad history have a rightful place: in museums. Not in your face.
  • Reply 73 of 292
    Completely disagree with Apple here. I 100% support removing the flag from any government building, but in a historically accurate war game? That's just dumb.

    @Thewhitefalcon Grow up dude. I mean, seriously.
  • Reply 74 of 292
    Interesting problem. Probably doesn't make sense for Apple to ban all such games. But, the question does remain to what extent movies, games, literature, social media contribute to encouraging violence and hatred.

    One comedian has stated that right now, the only thing his three year old hates is naps. Hate and ignorance is taught and learned. His three year old doesn't really hate yet, but we know he will. And he will, because we will teach him.
  • Reply 75 of 292
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 18,953member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    The confederate flag is being used today, the swastika is not. 

    Um... http://www.religionfacts.com/symbols/swastika

  • Reply 76 of 292
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 18,953member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    No they were just trying to protect private businesses rights and freedom of religion.

    No, it was meddling, pure and simple, to make a political point and to pander to a particular political base.

     

    Private businesses need no 'protecting' on this front. If someone refused on account of their religion or whatever and a customer disapproved, the appropriate place to test its consistency with our rights would be the courts.

  • Reply 77 of 292
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Says who? That certainly isn't a universally held opinion.

     

    You see, the point folks like you repeatedly miss is that you do not have a right to impose your values on someone else based on your interpretation of a book written thousands of years ago. If gay people were breaking into your home and forcing you to be gay, that would be reason for concern. Likewise if you were fired from your job or otherwise discriminated against merely for being straight.

     

    But the fact that gays fight for the same rights you have is another matter altogether.

  • Reply 78 of 292
    kent909kent909 Posts: 703member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sestewart View Post

     

    I have no problem with removing it from state houses and public tax payer funded facilities for legislatures. However, removing it from games that utilize artistic expression is violating 1st Amendment rights. These developers should sue Apple, or move their games to PC browser games. 


    The government cannot surpress  speech. Apple can do what ever they want.

  • Reply 79 of 292
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post



    I moved too slow on getting a General Lee model yesterday, prices are insane now.

     

    You should embrace the business opportunity and open a gun shop that sells confederate flags alongside ARs.

  • Reply 80 of 292
    inklinginkling Posts: 731member
    Toss out the Confederate battle flag, and there's a heck of other material that has to go from the app store, often for much more serious reasons.

    1. Any game with Nazi or Communist flags and symbols. They enslaved and killed millions of people. As a good German might say, "Wegzuwerfen!"%u2014*Throw them out."

    2. All shooting apps must go. Apple's already in the process of shooting games not to have guns for icons. That's ridiculous. If shooting games are bad, it's because of the shooting inside not the icon on the outside. Search the App Store for "shooting game" and you'll find dozens and dozens of them.

    3. The whole family of Angry Birds-like apps. They teach hatred and violence toward helpless animals. And not just that. There's an obvious extension from violence between species (i.e. birds against pigs) to violence between races. Those gotta go and go fast.

    If you extend the line from violent games (as above) to symbols that are merely offensive to some, as with that Confederate flag, then the list grows almost endless. Vegetarians, for instance, should be allowed to ban cooking apps that include meat, particular those that show cooked meat. "The horror of it all!"

    Fortunately, everyone at Apple can't have gone absolutely insane. Could someone inside the company please leak just who's responsible for this madness.

    Note too that none of these silly bans address the real problems. It's not the Confederate flag, for instance, that's causing some 70% of the black kids in this country to grow up in fatherless homes. Nor is the cause of that 'systemic racism'%u2014whatever that means. In Coming Apart, Charles Murray demonstrates that precisely the same horrors have been taking place among low-income whites.

    Apple has become too rich, politically correct and, at the same time, incredibly stupid.
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