Rumor: Apple to launch 'end-of-life' iPad mini model and 'iPad Pro' in 2015, forego 'iPad Air 3'

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  • Reply 61 of 105
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sog35 wrote: »
    So tell me then what the tiers should be for the Air?

    32GB $499
    That is good.
    64GB $549
    How about $599 with a 128 GB of flash.
    128GB $599
    How about $699 with 256 GB of flash and a 20% faster SoC.

    This isn't unreasonable as you can get 256 GB drives thes days for around $100 bucks retail. Since Apple buys wholesale and only needs the actual flash chips the cost to Apple for the flash will be well under $100. The faster SoC would be a trivial cost as testing on each die is already done. Note that this is $200 more than the base model which is actually a lot of money to pay for the flash in an iPad. The faster SoC would sweeten the deal at a minimal cost to Apple. A configuration like this would draw people to the higher margin machines instead of pushing them away.

    Please enlighten us of what the tiers should be
  • Reply 62 of 105
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    Tough luck for Apple, they need to find a way to make their users happy and to make a profit at the same time.
    Baloney! It would be silly of them to even have the product on the market if that was true. The profit isn't the same as a MBP but it is certainly larger than most of the accessories they sell.
    Actually I thought it was to have a competitive product to market against the Android machines.
    I've seen no evidence that this was the case. Very few iPad users downsized, the Minis that where sold went to a different customer base. Further iPad sales have continued to slow even with the ridiculous upgrade to the Mini. As it is, proportionally the Mini was never a big seller compare to the iPad. You seem to have a bit of a fantasy going on here. Apples margin problems are directly related to consumers perception of value in iPad line up. To put it simply they aren't buying into Apples high prices for trivial amounts of flash.

    Talk about fantasy!

    Also... let's talk about you turning the thumbscrews on other posts, while plagiarizing the intent, rewriting the opinions and calling them your own.

    You stated something about knowing some business people. Well why don't you ask them if they would EVER lower their prices if their products were selling as many as they can make of them, and own 90% of the profits of an entire market. Tell me the idiot that would go on a fire-sale with numbers like that, and I'll show you a total loser as a business person!

    As for storage... out of one side of your trap you state that iCloud is at the center of the Apple ecosystem, yet b*tch and moan about wanting more and cheaper storage in the devices out of the other side. While I believe in a balance of the 2 myself... while you just seem to like to b*tch?! Which is it?

    We get it: you think Apple is going down hill; they killed a few products that you personally loved in you life; everything is too expensive; Safari with 10 tabs open is a must (even though it cripples many a PC for diverse reasons)... and Apple is ripping off it's users by basing it's pricing on over-priced Flash storage.

    Flash storage: Apple purchases so much storage and "averages margins" across all of their storage purchasing... that any price that you THINK you know per unit, costs probably far less. That means other components are more expensive the stupid "BOM-Guessing Game" the media likes to use... also while everyone forgets that the R&D, software, material creation (yes... Apple creates their own!) and even designing and creating the machines made to create their products... is well... ya... the cost of doing business. That's why why all of the other tech companies are doing so well too, right?

    You're an engineer, so surely you know that all storage is not the same. In order for say an iPad 2 to still be running from it's release til today, Apple is purchasing A-grade storage and using strict QA to control that fact.

    BTW: you take your meds or just having an off day? I don't recall you being so combative in the past.... :no:
  • Reply 63 of 105
    So basically cripple iPad mini sales last year and cripple iPad Air sales this year, That is the worst strategy for a product line that is already low on sale rates.
  • Reply 64 of 105
    1) Who said anything about "killing" anything?

    2) what does "fusion" mean to you?

    Surely any device that will "eventually" take the place of laptops/desktops... will have a decnt keyboard of some kind or other, as well as be able to split to 1 or more screens.

    This is just starting... baby steps as it were.

    I was responding to your "but notebooks are dead and not coming back" statement. IMO, people heavy into notebooks won't budge from them to an iPad pro.
  • Reply 65 of 105
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member

    This rumour makes perfect sense. Upgrade the Mini to near Air 2 level (an A8 instead of the A8x maybe) in a slimmer body, again like the Air 2 last year. And concentrate main focus on the state of the art new flagship iPad Pro with large screen, A9/A9x, Force Touch with stylus etc...

  • Reply 66 of 105
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,763member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    What?  How the hell can you use a mini with one hand.  Impossible.


     

    Not while typing, but just to hold it while watching a video or even taking a video, it's so much easier to handle than a full-sized iPad.  When I first got it (after using my iPad 3 for a couple of years), I was literally blown away with how much more I enjoyed carrying it around.

  • Reply 67 of 105
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,763member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    um the Air is only a fraction heavier than the Mini.  The ipad3 is heavy as hell though.

     

    If the Mini is a one handed device than the Air is also




    It's the size for me, not the weight.  I can grip both sides (horizontally) with one hand on the Mini.  Not so with the full size iPad.

     

    This makes a difference in situations like taking pictures or video because I'm not accidentally touching the screen and triggering things.  Sure you can pinch the regular iPad along the bezel to hold it with one hand, but it always feels like it's going to slip out of my hand if I move too much while doing that.

  • Reply 68 of 105
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    I did say if another platform gets traction. As it is the faster hardware is out there to build such a machine.
    I believe this was in fact a big reason for the Mini to exist, that is to protect its flank from the competition.

    It was a me-too moment from Apple. Someone got scared... and I'll repeat, said, why not?"
    As it is I do see the possibility of a viable iPad product in that price range and that would be to give it features to make it a viable replacement of the iPod for musicians. Give the machine real features that makes it distinctive and worth the price.

    Waste of time and resources for a niche product with low margins.
    Even with iPhone the overwhelming majority of purchases are made due to size, not the camera. Size is everything with cell phones.

    With every cell phone EXCEPT the iPhone. Apple users (have been) are traditionally in the creative arts, and the quality that Apple puts into it's cameras is not lost on them at all.
    You just lost your credibility here because I use an iPad daily for web access and no it isn't fast enough in fact it isn't even close.
    So I'm no longer a print and photography creative director and consultant that deals with Apple devices of all kinds every day for the last 30+ years... just because I disagreed with you?

    YOU are spoiled... just as I am with an iPad Air 2. However, not everybody needs that. In fact watch many normal consumers use a desktop machine. They almost NEVER open more than one tab at a time... ever. Kids, seniors, soccer moms, salespeople younger than you and I... Click. One. Link. At. A. Time. Hard to believe, but true. So in those scenarios, for those folks.... that don't want to spend more money for speed and power.... the iPad 2 works just fine. Disclaimer: I'm stating this from Germany, where people pay cash for everything and Internet destinations still look like they did in the US 5-10 years ago. Facebook in Safari iOS 6 is a wonder to behold. It actually works for people and is far better (for them) than the desktop or iOS App. Imagine that?!
    That poor performance isn't all hardware though, I can't wait to have ad blocking in iOS 9.

    I couldn't agree more!
    Hell I got an old Linux box in my cellar but that doesn't mean I would go out and buy a new machine that performs the same. The box is already obviously slow. I'm not against recycling hardware, I actually keep a lot of old hardware around and runnable, but I don't reach for that hardware to browse the net when I want a decent experience.
    You also should know that I have normal consumer clients that still have 8-10 year old desktops, as well as 7+ year old laptops. They prefer the iPad even though they use faster machines at work in their jobs, rather than purchase a new PC for home. A Mac is just plain over-kill for these people. They love their iPhones and get by with their iPads. Real work is done at work, and "surfing and having fun" is at home... and ne'er the 2 shall mix (German law ;) ).
    You can't compare tablets to laptops due to the way the two are used.
    In the PC world sales are suffering from the rather pathetic effort MS has put into the next Windows variant. They are trying to slowly update hardware at work and the OS isn't being received well by users. In effect upgrading a PC right now is taking a step backwards.
    The two OS's will continue to remain independent for a very long time. There is no way professional users of Mac OS can put up with the restrictions seen in iOS. For some of us that would mean moving back to Linux.

    The last sentence has more to do with the first sentence, than the filler copy. One word: DUH!
    Given that though I really don't think people understand how much is shared between the two platforms already. That sharing will increase in the future. However to describe this as fusion is complete nonsense.

    OK. I used fusion... but I didn't see you come up with a better word. Just that it doesn't fit your description.

    Well they can try but that would require fundamental changes to iOS that they have resisted so far.

    Name some. I agree with you... but I'm almost certain that I'm looking forward and you're looking backwards in regards to feature sets and capabilities, guarenteed.

    As others have mentioned somethings are extremely difficult to do in iOS. The simple act of attaching files to an e-mail was mentioned earlier and it is a serious issue because it is done daily in business.
    Could easily be made better with extensions and data pooling AKA folder hierarchy, I agree. But a file system or multi-users as we know them on OSX: no.
    Huh? I'm not belligerent I'm just reacting to nonsense. IPad is a very very long way from replacing conventional operating systems due to some significant usability issues that Apple has yet to demonstrate solutions for. ICloud continues to be a mess and extends those usability issues.

    For you. Me. Most of my business clients. And many technophiles here on these forums. However, for the bulk of Apple's users at this very moment: normal everyday users and consumers, is iOS and the iPad "The Computer" that they know, use and actually love for it's simplicity and for the very reasons we can't use it. For many it's the first "computer" they've ever really "used" and feel like they "know what the hell they're doing" or want to do with it.

    That's Apple's core customers, why Apple invests so much in their stores, who and how they market their devices... "The Computer For The Rest of Us - Reboot 2". We're just not part of "us" any longer and have become far more demanding... of which Apple still makes a ton of great devices for. Even the iPad (and iWatch) if you know how to integrate them well for YOUR use-case scenario.

    Nonsense is NOT defined by an opinion not your own.
  • Reply 69 of 105
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,763member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    You are extremely risky taking pictures and video with one hand with a Mini.

     

    You say the ipad is dificult to hold with one hand but have you ever held an Air? The difference in weight and thickness of the Air vs the 3 is huge.   I can easily hold it with one hand for many functions but I won't because I dont want to drop it.  


     

    And that's the thing.  I can get a very good grip on the edges of the iPad Mini with one hand -- I definitely don't feel like I'm going to drop it.  And I don't have exceptionally large hands either, though my wife certainly can't grip it that way.

     

    I've held the iPad Air in the Apple Store, and while the lighter weight (compared to my iPad 3) definitely helps, it still feels precarious holding it in one hand since I can't get the same grip on it.

  • Reply 70 of 105
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,763member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    what on earth are you doing with the other hand?

     

    And why are you taking video in portrait mode?  

    Why are you taking pictures with an iPad when the iPhone camera is much better?

     

    That's my point.  If you own an iPhone there really is no need to own a Mini instead of an Air.




    Do you leave your house or do anything but type messages on a forum all day and not understand what happens in the real world?

     

    Maybe I'm standing on a bus and need to hold the pole.  Maybe I'm holding my son's hand so he doesn't run away.

     

    And I am taking videos in landscape mode.  Why is it so hard to understand that a wrist can turn in different directions?  As long as you're not covering the lens with your palm, you can shoot a video either way.

  • Reply 71 of 105
    smalmsmalm Posts: 677member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post



    Actually I don't see this rumor to be so far fetched.



    iPad Air 2: is still the most powerful pure tablet on the market. At it's current size, it still will be for some time to come.



    Current iPads just wont die fast enough...

    And making an update for all users of a 9.7" iPad less interesting will help?

    Apple already made that mistake with the iPad mini 3.

  • Reply 72 of 105
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,763member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    Why wouldn't you take video/pictures with an iPhone instead?  The camera is much better.


     

    Because sometimes the device I happen to have in my hand is the one I choose to use.  Sometimes my iPhone is full of other stuff and doesn't have enough room for video.  Sometimes I don't want to have a call/message come in and mess up my video or distract me.

     
    The Mini is too small for serious browsing or video watching.

    But too big to be a one handed device.



     

    Works for me in all those cases.

     
    Too big to be a pocketable device.

     

    Agreed.  But so is the Air.

     

    I think its time to pull the plug on any updates.  If you look at my profit analysis above you will see the Mini generates almost no profit. And even worse it may cause some not to buy Air or even 6+ devices.



     

    So then add a few features and charge a bit more for it so that it matches the profit margins of those devices.  I'm willing to pay more for it if it has features I want.  I happen to really like the form factor of the Mini and know a number of others who do as well.

  • Reply 73 of 105
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,039member
    sog35 wrote: »
    I like these rumors if true.

    IMO the release of the iPadMini was a mistake by Apple.  Great for consumers but horrible for Apple.  Why?  iPads already have terrible gross profit margin compared to the iPhone and Mac lines.  Too many people choose to buy the cheaper iPadMini vs the iPad.  That $100 less in revenue per unit is killer.  With the 6+ its high time for Apple to phase out the Mini.  At this point it is too niche of a product and hurts Apple's bottom line.  The iPadMini2 at $299 and Mini3 at $399 are dirt cheap prices.  I don't think Apple makes much profit at all on those models.  I think at first the Mini was introduced to gain market share.  But really the only thing that happenned was allow people to cheap out and buy an iPad for $100 less.

    Just look at the average selling price of ipads.

    1. In the first 2 years of iPad (before mini) the averaging selling price was over $600
    2. Last quarter the average selling price was $430

    That is ridiculously bad. The only way to reverse that trend is to phase out the cheap Mini and introduce the Pro.  Apple needs to get the ASP of iPads back to the $500-$600 level.

    If Apple must keep the Mini line they need to show a clear line that seperates the Mini from the regular iPad.  This would mean giving a much weaker CPU, less RAM, worse screen.  And most of all give it a plastic shell.  Think of the Mini as the iPhoneC of the iPad line.  You need to give people a HUGE incentive to buy the regular iPad.  The mini will still be there for those who MUST have a smaller form factor or just can't pay the $100 more for the regular iPad.

    Ridiculous. You think like a Microsoft executive. Don't let consumers choose what they want, MAKE them do what you want. You're assuming that Apple is making $100 less on each mini than they are each regular iPad, which is obviously wrong. Secondly, you're assuming that the only reason to by a mini is price. I had an original mini, and now a 2nd generation mini, and I can tell you price was only one factor. I love the size for how I use it. I find the iPad Air to be HUGE. It's not as comfortable to play a simple game on or just browse. I can hold my mini and type on it in portrait mode with my thumbs, as I'm doing now.

    And no, Apple doesn't "need" to get the average selling price higher. They are making money hand over fist.
  • Reply 74 of 105
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,254member
    I traded in my iPad 3 for an iPad Air 2 and really couldn't be happier with it.

    I'd love to see an iPad mini as thin as the Air 2, even if that meant a dramatic reduction in battery life. It would be the perfect device for reading (though probably not for text entry).
  • Reply 75 of 105
    steveausteveau Posts: 302member
    Pogo 007 is right! For professional use "ios is irrelevant due to its lack of file explorer."

    An iPad with OSX, that would be something!
  • Reply 76 of 105
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,703member
    steveau wrote: »
    Pogo 007 is right! For professional use "ios is irrelevant due to its lack of file explorer."

    Professional WHAT?

    I'm a professional, and I use my iPad for the job - in fact, large parts of my job wouldn't be happening without it - so this argument always strikes me as ridiculously narrow-sighted.

    State what you need a file browser for, and why that's the only thing stopping you from buying one, but stop claiming that it's useless for "professional use", for some completely arbitrary and limited definition of "professional".
  • Reply 77 of 105
    dazabritdazabrit Posts: 273member
    I thought it was silly at first as the iPad mini is still very popular, especially with the lady folk! But maybe they're simply addressing the desire for smaller screens with the latest iPhones & possibly a bigger iPod down the line? It does appear that the iPhone is starting to canabalise the iPad line again on the consumer side so maybe they want/need to switch it up?

    This approach would allow them to forge ahead with the iPad as more of a 'computer-like' experience with added productivity applications. Bigger screen, increasingly powerful hardware & software (A10, 4GB RAM & Final Cut X in 2016?) new developments such as bluetooth pen accessories & all that jazz.

    iPod (4")
    iPod Plus (5.5")

    iPhone 7 (4.7")
    iPhone 7 Plus (5.5")

    iPad (9.7")
    iPad Plus (12.9")
  • Reply 78 of 105
    dazabritdazabrit Posts: 273member



    I'm still 50/50 on this argument ;) I'm all for new paradigms but the new one isn't working as well as the old one yet in a lot of ways.

     

    For instance iCloud Drive is great but it automatically syncs everything across all devices so 30GB worth of material from my iPhone is suddenly taking very precious space from my Mac's local flash storage!

     

    Selective sync or cloud only storage with smart local caching on the Mac side would go a long way to making the iCloud system work a hell of a lot better. Apple now has the document picker and also allows you to show iCloud Drive as an app on iOS now so baby steps in the right direction...

     

    The pickup and go use cases enabled by handoff, continuity and iCloud are working very well now but that niggly storage issue still remains.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spheric View Post





    Professional WHAT?



    I'm a professional, and I use my iPad for the job - in fact, large parts of my job wouldn't be happening without it - so this argument always strikes me as ridiculously narrow-sighted.



    State what you need a file browser for, and why that's the only thing stopping you from buying one, but stop claiming that it's useless for "professional use", for some completely arbitrary and limited definition of "professional".


     

  • Reply 79 of 105
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,703member
    I agree.

    And I'm happy to see Apple move gently in that direction and add more capabilities for file manipulation.
    However, I applaud them for weathering the criticism and taking very careful and measured steps towards this complexity, because I really want them to get the balance right.

    Same with the people clamoring for "OS X on the iPad". Of COURSE its capabilities will grow over time (and have grown), but to expect Apple to add a layer that will run existing Mac apps is to completely misunderstand why iPad even exists.
  • Reply 80 of 105
    dazabritdazabrit Posts: 273member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spheric View Post



    I agree.



    And I'm happy to see Apple move gently in that direction and add more capabilities for file manipulation.

    However, I applaud them for weathering the criticism and taking very careful and measured steps towards this complexity, because I really want them to get the balance right.



    Same with the people clamoring for "OS X on the iPad". Of COURSE its capabilities will grow over time (and have grown), but to expect Apple to add a layer that will run existing Mac apps is to completely misunderstand why iPad even exists.



    Exactly. OS X on an iPad is a terrible idea, same as it always was. You end up with a mish mass of interfaces and inputs that are paired with hardware not suitable for the form factor!

     

    I'm happy they're sticking to growing iOS and pushing their mobile hardware & software to create an optimised & efficient OS X competitor  for thin MultiTouch + ForceTouch form factors.

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