I don't believe the last one. I bet that 5S will stay as it is this year. No reason/benefit to put it in plastic case.
That is a possibility, however, if that is the case, then the 5c will continue to be sold until next year also, with Apple reworking the lineup next year. The biggest problem I have with this is the pricing structure...I suppose they could drop the price of the 5s to $49 and the 5c even more and keep selling it, but, not so sure how that'd all work.
I do recall that the 5/5s metal/glass case has been the most difficult for Apple to produce, this is part of the reason I feel they will take the 5s innards and fit it into the c case, while dropping the 5c from the lineup. Since they are stuffing it into a new case, they could conceivably add NFC and give it Apple Pay ability, also. ...My list comes from the production and marketing angles, combined with Apple's previous track record.
I think they could sell many 5s's in the c case at $100 price drop, especially if they add NFC for Apple Pay.
For 2016 it'll be more likely we'll see an iPhone 6c, as they will need to have a smaller screen iPhone, and will likely kill all the "5"s.
You ditch plastic case production lines and all the logistical/procurement issues that come with them. You also better amortize the iPod touch anodization processes. A non-Foxconn assembling partner will take care of the iPod touches and the 6Cs and Foxconn does the 6S+/6S and 6. A minor assembly partner will love to have that business. Again, another benefit beyond production/supply chain is marketing simplicity.
I do recall that the 5/5s metal/glass case has been the most difficult for Apple to produce, this is part of the reason I feel they will take the 5s innards and fit it into the c case, while dropping the 5c from the lineup. Since they are stuffing it into a new case, they could conceivably add NFC and give it Apple Pay ability, also. ...My list comes from the production and marketing angles, combined with Apple's previous track record.
5S innards won't fit 5C case: different board, clip/screw location. Even iPhone 5 board won't fit in 5C case. That means new C case needs to be made especially to fit 5S gut...I doubt it. Altering manufacturing process just to make the new case without adding any benefit is not what Apple would do.
You ditch plastic case production lines and all the logistical/procurement issues that come with them. You also better amortize the iPod touch anodization processes. A non-Foxconn assembling partner will take care of the iPod touches and the 6Cs and Foxconn does the 6S+/6S and 6. A minor assembly partner will love to have that business. Again, another benefit beyond production/supply chain is marketing simplicity.
I meant what benefit vs iPhone 5S? Just leave it alone and you don't have to do anything. It's discontinued in a year. I don't recall Apple did anything so much to target the lowest tier.
Weren't there milling difficulties with the 5 series? And didn't Apply create a whole new production process for the $0 on contract iPhone 5C? there's precedent for new lowest tier phone that is a repackaged device. All I am suggesting is that the engineering for the iPod touch and the C series may be overlapped/shared.
Furthermore, isn't the A8 series SoC more future-proofed than the A7? Wouldn't the margins on a 2015 "iPod touch with cellular" be pretty high? Most importantly, I can't imagine any iPod getting a better processor than even the lowest tier iPhone. These are non-insignificant reasons, no?
Weren't there milling difficulties with the 5 series? And didn't Apply create a whole new production process for the $0 on contract iPhone 5C? there's precedent for new lowest tier phone that is a repackaged device. All I am suggesting is that the engineering for the iPod touch and the C series may be overlapped/shared.
Furthermore, isn't the A8 series SoC more future-proofed than the A7? Wouldn't the margins on a 2015 "iPod touch with cellular" be pretty high? Most importantly, I can't imagine any iPod getting a better processor than even the lowest tier iPhone. These are non-insignificant reasons, no?
I think the touch got A8 so Apple doesn't have to think about it for a while. Or maybe it's the last touch And Apple wants it to be able to support at least 2 OS upgrades. I can't see any way that the touch would have better specs than an iPhone. Also the fact that the updated touch is still aluminum makes me think if we do get an updated "C" iPhone model it might be aluminum too. Seems odd for new touches to be aluminum but new iPhones plastic. It's entirely possible too that Apple got feedback that people weren't that into colored plastic. I always thought the 5C had great build quality and didn't feel like a cheap plastic phone at all. But very little of Apple's product line is plastic (heck they even replaced the Air's plastic hinge with all metal in the new MacBooks) so perhaps customers just aren't feeling plastic when it comes to most Apple products.
5S innards won't fit 5C case: different board, clip/screw location. Even iPhone 5 board won't fit in 5C case. That means new C case needs to be made especially to fit 5S gut...I doubt it. Altering manufacturing process just to make the new case without adding any benefit is not what Apple would do.
Moreover, you're suggesting that rather than modify a common plastic mold to accommodate a different design, it's less expensive to build a brand new factory to manufacture 5 metal iPhones, instead of dropping the 5S into a plastic case? So in addition to the engineering Apple already likely anticipated when they designed the 5C & 5S to reduce the cost of this conversion, there's freeing up a factory to continue milling the iPhone 6, and maintaining a clear line of demarcation for the entry level phone model.
Now let's take a page from the iPod Touch ... essentially the same case, but the internal components were updated and sells for the same amount, despite sales being in decline. What if Apple's plan is to maintain the plastic case, and update the 5S internals when the 7 is released? So they preserve their minimal investment to modify the 5C case to accommodate the 5S, and then revise the 5S logic board next year to add things like NFC and ?Pay, without competing directly with the 6S or 7.
Moreover, you're suggesting that rather than modify a common plastic mold to accommodate a different design, it's less expensive to build a brand new factory to manufacture 5 metal iPhones, instead of dropping the 5S into a plastic case? So in addition to the engineering Apple already likely anticipated when they designed the 5C & 5S to reduce the cost of this conversion, there's freeing up a factory to continue milling the iPhone 6, and maintaining a clear line of demarcation for the entry level phone model.
Now let's take a page from the iPod Touch ... essentially the same case, but the internal components were updated and sells for the same amount, despite sales being in decline. What if Apple's plan is to maintain the plastic case, and update the 5S internals when the 7 is released? So they preserve their minimal investment to modify the 5C case to accommodate the 5S, and then revise the 5S logic board next year to add things like NFC and ?Pay, without competing directly with the 6S or 7.
my suggestion was that Aplle will do nothing. They'll let 5S as is until it's phased out next year. That means no color phone metal or plastic this year. Rather, you'll see 6 at mid tier and 5S at lower tier.
From the new Touch, I don't think Apple would have any problem to fit the 6 gut into 4" screen and chassis. Will they do it? I doubt it.
my suggestion was that Aplle will do nothing. They'll let 5S as is until it's phased out next year. That means no color phone metal or plastic this year. Rather, you'll see 6 at mid tier and 5S at lower tier.
From the new Touch, I don't think Apple would have any problem to fit the 6 gut into 4" screen and chassis. Will they do it? I doubt it.
So what was the point of the 5C then? An experiment that didn't work out?
my suggestion was that Aplle will do nothing. They'll let 5S as is until it's phased out next year. That means no color phone metal or plastic this year. Rather, you'll see 6 at mid tier and 5S at lower tier.
From the new Touch, I don't think Apple would have any problem to fit the 6 gut into 4" screen and chassis. Will they do it? I doubt it.
So what was the point of the 5C then? An experiment that didn't work out?
I really can't see a plastic phone as thin as the iPhone 6 holding up to much abuse.
The 5 and 5C are not the same phone no matter how hard you try.
You said Apple always sells LAST YEARS FLAGSHIP for $100 less the next year. FALSE.
In 2013 they did not sell the iPhone5 for $100 less. They sold the 5C.
Once. A failed experiment. Your entire argument is based on the idea that people won't pay $100 extra for the 6S because it looks the same as the 6, but we know that today people will pay $100-$200 extra within the 6 lineup to buy extra storage space. At least I assume you know that the 16GB isn't the top seller. The cost of the present day iPhone isn't $199 it's up to $399, and it looks like most people settle for mid tier. That's what's pushing up ASP.
Given Apple know that the 16Gb isn't a big seller, a 16gb 6 won't cannibalise the 6S just as the low tiered 6S won't cannibalise the mid to high tiered 6S, even though the models look the same. People do know internals.
In the 90's and early 2000's it was all about voice. Thus the smaller the better. You don't need a big display to made voice calls....
But we remember a few unchanging facts. The 4 inch phone comfortably fits and can be operated by one hand. It also fits easily in more pockets.
It is also worth recalling that users have not had the option to select a 4 inch versus a larger phone with equivalent technology to test popularity. Apple simply brought out the 6 and 6+ with no 4 inch equivalent option. We don't know the relative popularity. The low conversion rate might indicate Apple has left a lot of money on the table. I bought the new iPod touch (128 GB) which I will continue to use as my handheld iOS device until Apple releases a 4 inch phone with current tech.
People understand storage space. They know it takes space to have photos, videos, apps, emails, ect. The concept of storage space is burned in people's minds since windows95 days.
But CPU speed? Camera? Forcetouch? Ram? Most already think the current phones and camera are good enough already.
Storage space is the most important thing. However the others matter too. In fact the biggest bang for your buck will be to move from the 6 to the 6S. Apple might even totally gimp the storage space of the last years model to ensure that, as they do with the mid level now.
Imagine someone enticed to a shop or online because he wants to get the cheap iPhone 6. Realising he can get more storage and all the rest for $100 will convince many to move up. That's the plan.
Moreover, you're suggesting that rather than modify a common plastic mold to accommodate a different design, it's less expensive to build a brand new factory to manufacture 5 metal iPhones, instead of dropping the 5S into a plastic case? So in addition to the engineering Apple already likely anticipated when they designed the 5C & 5S to reduce the cost of this conversion, there's freeing up a factory to continue milling the iPhone 6, and maintaining a clear line of demarcation for the entry level phone model.
Now let's take a page from the iPod Touch ... essentially the same case, but the internal components were updated and sells for the same amount, despite sales being in decline. What if Apple's plan is to maintain the plastic case, and update the 5S internals when the 7 is released? So they preserve their minimal investment to modify the 5C case to accommodate the 5S, and then revise the 5S logic board next year to add things like NFC and ?Pay, without competing directly with the 6S or 7.
But we remember a few unchanging facts. The 4 inch phone comfortably fits and can be operated by one hand. It also fits easily in more pockets.
It is also worth recalling that users have not had the option to select a 4 inch versus a larger phone with equivalent technology to test popularity. Apple simply brought out the 6 and 6+ with no 4 inch equivalent option. We don't know the relative popularity. The low conversion rate might indicate Apple has left a lot of money on the table. I bought the new iPod touch (128 GB) which I will continue to use as my handheld iOS device until Apple releases a 4 inch phone with current tech.
Except in absolute numbers Apple is selling more iPhones than ever.
Except in absolute numbers Apple is selling more iPhones than ever.
And to a wider market than ever. Apple is steadily expanding their market every year. China and Asia in particular. The 6 series phones expanded their market to Android users who refused to switch to a smaller screen but really wanted an iPhone. Trying to suggest that the iPhone 6 is the most successful phone ever sold because it is larger than any iPhone before it, is specious at best. It also doesn't take into consideration how many 5S and 5C iPhones Apple is selling, which will likely never be known since Apple doesn't break out the models.
5S innards won't fit 5C case: different board, clip/screw location. Even iPhone 5 board won't fit in 5C case. That means new C case needs to be made especially to fit 5S gut...I doubt it. Altering manufacturing process just to make the new case without adding any benefit is not what Apple would do.
Really? I would think it's a no brainer financially, they currently have two entirely separate production lines and processes for the 5s and 5c. By making a small change to the 5c line they merge the two lines while utilising the same internal design and parts as before on a single production line that allegedly is easier and cheaper to manufacture (the plastic option).
If they did this and added nfc for Apple pay, I'd be first in line for one on release day.
Really? I would think it's a no brainer financially, they currently have two entirely separate production lines and processes for the 5s and 5c. By making a small change to the 5c line they merge the two lines while utilising the same internal design and parts as before on a single production line that allegedly is easier and cheaper to manufacture (the plastic option).
If they did this and added nfc for Apple pay, I'd be first in line for one on release day.
Exactly. And in the process they free up the metal milling factory that produces the 5S so that it can start making the 6S, while the factory that's been producing the 6 and 6 plus continue to churn out those models.
However, I don't see them adding NFC and ?Pay to it this round. I suspect that the plastic "c" model might be around for one more year with modified 5S internals to boost the chip specs like the iPod Touch, and add NFC and ?Pay. Essentially a stripped down 6 with a smaller screen. There's rationale for not updating the 5SC with ?Pay now, as considering the phone is free, a customer might instead buy an ?Watch to get it. Also, it will likely be at least another year before ?Pay is widely enough available to justify including it in every phone.
Comments
I don't believe the last one. I bet that 5S will stay as it is this year. No reason/benefit to put it in plastic case.
That is a possibility, however, if that is the case, then the 5c will continue to be sold until next year also, with Apple reworking the lineup next year. The biggest problem I have with this is the pricing structure...I suppose they could drop the price of the 5s to $49 and the 5c even more and keep selling it, but, not so sure how that'd all work.
I do recall that the 5/5s metal/glass case has been the most difficult for Apple to produce, this is part of the reason I feel they will take the 5s innards and fit it into the c case, while dropping the 5c from the lineup. Since they are stuffing it into a new case, they could conceivably add NFC and give it Apple Pay ability, also. ...My list comes from the production and marketing angles, combined with Apple's previous track record.
I think they could sell many 5s's in the c case at $100 price drop, especially if they add NFC for Apple Pay.
For 2016 it'll be more likely we'll see an iPhone 6c, as they will need to have a smaller screen iPhone, and will likely kill all the "5"s.
What's the benefit?
You ditch plastic case production lines and all the logistical/procurement issues that come with them. You also better amortize the iPod touch anodization processes. A non-Foxconn assembling partner will take care of the iPod touches and the 6Cs and Foxconn does the 6S+/6S and 6. A minor assembly partner will love to have that business. Again, another benefit beyond production/supply chain is marketing simplicity.
I do recall that the 5/5s metal/glass case has been the most difficult for Apple to produce, this is part of the reason I feel they will take the 5s innards and fit it into the c case, while dropping the 5c from the lineup. Since they are stuffing it into a new case, they could conceivably add NFC and give it Apple Pay ability, also. ...My list comes from the production and marketing angles, combined with Apple's previous track record.
5S innards won't fit 5C case: different board, clip/screw location. Even iPhone 5 board won't fit in 5C case. That means new C case needs to be made especially to fit 5S gut...I doubt it. Altering manufacturing process just to make the new case without adding any benefit is not what Apple would do.
You ditch plastic case production lines and all the logistical/procurement issues that come with them. You also better amortize the iPod touch anodization processes. A non-Foxconn assembling partner will take care of the iPod touches and the 6Cs and Foxconn does the 6S+/6S and 6. A minor assembly partner will love to have that business. Again, another benefit beyond production/supply chain is marketing simplicity.
I meant what benefit vs iPhone 5S? Just leave it alone and you don't have to do anything. It's discontinued in a year. I don't recall Apple did anything so much to target the lowest tier.
Weren't there milling difficulties with the 5 series? And didn't Apply create a whole new production process for the $0 on contract iPhone 5C? there's precedent for new lowest tier phone that is a repackaged device. All I am suggesting is that the engineering for the iPod touch and the C series may be overlapped/shared.
Furthermore, isn't the A8 series SoC more future-proofed than the A7? Wouldn't the margins on a 2015 "iPod touch with cellular" be pretty high? Most importantly, I can't imagine any iPod getting a better processor than even the lowest tier iPhone. These are non-insignificant reasons, no?
I think the touch got A8 so Apple doesn't have to think about it for a while. Or maybe it's the last touch And Apple wants it to be able to support at least 2 OS upgrades. I can't see any way that the touch would have better specs than an iPhone. Also the fact that the updated touch is still aluminum makes me think if we do get an updated "C" iPhone model it might be aluminum too. Seems odd for new touches to be aluminum but new iPhones plastic. It's entirely possible too that Apple got feedback that people weren't that into colored plastic. I always thought the 5C had great build quality and didn't feel like a cheap plastic phone at all. But very little of Apple's product line is plastic (heck they even replaced the Air's plastic hinge with all metal in the new MacBooks) so perhaps customers just aren't feeling plastic when it comes to most Apple products.
5S innards won't fit 5C case: different board, clip/screw location. Even iPhone 5 board won't fit in 5C case. That means new C case needs to be made especially to fit 5S gut...I doubt it. Altering manufacturing process just to make the new case without adding any benefit is not what Apple would do.
We have already seen a rumored modified iPhone 5C case which I don't believe has been debunked. http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/03/30/alleged-iphone-6c-rear-shell-suggests-apple-will-repackage-iphone-5s-parts
Moreover, you're suggesting that rather than modify a common plastic mold to accommodate a different design, it's less expensive to build a brand new factory to manufacture 5 metal iPhones, instead of dropping the 5S into a plastic case? So in addition to the engineering Apple already likely anticipated when they designed the 5C & 5S to reduce the cost of this conversion, there's freeing up a factory to continue milling the iPhone 6, and maintaining a clear line of demarcation for the entry level phone model.
Now let's take a page from the iPod Touch ... essentially the same case, but the internal components were updated and sells for the same amount, despite sales being in decline. What if Apple's plan is to maintain the plastic case, and update the 5S internals when the 7 is released? So they preserve their minimal investment to modify the 5C case to accommodate the 5S, and then revise the 5S logic board next year to add things like NFC and ?Pay, without competing directly with the 6S or 7.
From the new Touch, I don't think Apple would have any problem to fit the 6 gut into 4" screen and chassis. Will they do it? I doubt it.
So what was the point of the 5C then? An experiment that didn't work out?
I really can't see a plastic phone as thin as the iPhone 6 holding up to much abuse.
Once. A failed experiment. Your entire argument is based on the idea that people won't pay $100 extra for the 6S because it looks the same as the 6, but we know that today people will pay $100-$200 extra within the 6 lineup to buy extra storage space. At least I assume you know that the 16GB isn't the top seller. The cost of the present day iPhone isn't $199 it's up to $399, and it looks like most people settle for mid tier. That's what's pushing up ASP.
Given Apple know that the 16Gb isn't a big seller, a 16gb 6 won't cannibalise the 6S just as the low tiered 6S won't cannibalise the mid to high tiered 6S, even though the models look the same. People do know internals.
Yes.
But we remember a few unchanging facts. The 4 inch phone comfortably fits and can be operated by one hand. It also fits easily in more pockets.
It is also worth recalling that users have not had the option to select a 4 inch versus a larger phone with equivalent technology to test popularity. Apple simply brought out the 6 and 6+ with no 4 inch equivalent option. We don't know the relative popularity. The low conversion rate might indicate Apple has left a lot of money on the table. I bought the new iPod touch (128 GB) which I will continue to use as my handheld iOS device until Apple releases a 4 inch phone with current tech.
They didn't repeat it.
Storage space is the most important thing. However the others matter too. In fact the biggest bang for your buck will be to move from the 6 to the 6S. Apple might even totally gimp the storage space of the last years model to ensure that, as they do with the mid level now.
Imagine someone enticed to a shop or online because he wants to get the cheap iPhone 6. Realising he can get more storage and all the rest for $100 will convince many to move up. That's the plan.
We have already seen a rumored modified iPhone 5C case which I don't believe has been debunked. http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/03/30/alleged-iphone-6c-rear-shell-suggests-apple-will-repackage-iphone-5s-parts
Moreover, you're suggesting that rather than modify a common plastic mold to accommodate a different design, it's less expensive to build a brand new factory to manufacture 5 metal iPhones, instead of dropping the 5S into a plastic case? So in addition to the engineering Apple already likely anticipated when they designed the 5C & 5S to reduce the cost of this conversion, there's freeing up a factory to continue milling the iPhone 6, and maintaining a clear line of demarcation for the entry level phone model.
Now let's take a page from the iPod Touch ... essentially the same case, but the internal components were updated and sells for the same amount, despite sales being in decline. What if Apple's plan is to maintain the plastic case, and update the 5S internals when the 7 is released? So they preserve their minimal investment to modify the 5C case to accommodate the 5S, and then revise the 5S logic board next year to add things like NFC and ?Pay, without competing directly with the 6S or 7.
And, we also saw, briefly, an iPhone in the "c" case with touch id button and the background seen with the 5s, not the dotted background we see with the 5c: http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/05/21/apples-online-store-outs-touch-id-equipped-iphone-5c
Except in absolute numbers Apple is selling more iPhones than ever.
I just can't see a plastic phone being that thin
If they did this and added nfc for Apple pay, I'd be first in line for one on release day.
The 5c wasn't much thicker than the 5 but a 6c would have to be a lot thicker than the 6.
Really? I would think it's a no brainer financially, they currently have two entirely separate production lines and processes for the 5s and 5c. By making a small change to the 5c line they merge the two lines while utilising the same internal design and parts as before on a single production line that allegedly is easier and cheaper to manufacture (the plastic option).
If they did this and added nfc for Apple pay, I'd be first in line for one on release day.
Exactly. And in the process they free up the metal milling factory that produces the 5S so that it can start making the 6S, while the factory that's been producing the 6 and 6 plus continue to churn out those models.
However, I don't see them adding NFC and ?Pay to it this round. I suspect that the plastic "c" model might be around for one more year with modified 5S internals to boost the chip specs like the iPod Touch, and add NFC and ?Pay. Essentially a stripped down 6 with a smaller screen. There's rationale for not updating the 5SC with ?Pay now, as considering the phone is free, a customer might instead buy an ?Watch to get it. Also, it will likely be at least another year before ?Pay is widely enough available to justify including it in every phone.