Apple could be held liable for supporting terrorism with strong iOS encryption, experts theorize

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  • Reply 141 of 183
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spock1234 View Post

     

    Finally, an EULA that serves a useful purpose!




    Except that it doesn't work.

     

     

    If it were true, the banks would just put an EULA "you confirm you aren't stealing money off someone's account" on their terminals, instead of securing them.

  • Reply 142 of 183
    alanskyalansky Posts: 235member
    Because we're all "suspected terrorists", don't you know. What a load of crap! The gov't should change the name of this country to the Paranoid States of America.
  • Reply 143 of 183
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thompr View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

     



    Critical masses explode. But I second the basic concept.


     

    There is a critical mass associated with the collapse (implosion) of a neutron star.




    I know - you probably missed the subsequent discussion (above) of that subject.

  • Reply 144 of 183
    So, I predict for the next "big televised terror event", you'll hear the news say. "The perpetrators were able to coordinate their attacks thanks to their Apple iPhones."
  • Reply 145 of 183
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post



    I remember when this thread was about Apple.



    What do apples have to do with this splendid exhibition of paranoia?

  • Reply 146 of 183
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

    - I have read the Quran front to cover dozens of times, I definitely "understand" what it says



    Oh, good, then you know that it calls for the extermination of all non-muslims.

     

    …xenophobic…


     

    This has been one of the few universally intelligent behaviors for the history of human civilization, so thanks for the compliment.

     

    …infinitesemaly tiny percentage of “Muslims”…


     

    So… all of them. They don’t have to claim it for it to be true, particularly since the Quran also says to lie to non-muslims to get your way.

     

    "mental health" (ie. confederate flag)


     

    I love that the talking points for you guys are identical in every situation. It’s great.

     
    - "Mussulman countries". The correct word is "Muslim" countries. I don't expect much knowledge from you on these subjects, but the fact that you can't get such a mind-numbingly basic term that is repeated countless times right shows how little you care about anything approaching fact. 

     


     

    And yet ‘mussulman’ remains valid.

     

    claiming that it doesn't "matter" and that it isn't "safe".


     

    Prove it matters and prove it’s safe, then.

     
    No one is asking you to go to Syria or Iraq.

     

    Oh, so “don’t travel”, then. Thanks for agreeing.

     



    How dare you smear almost 2 Billion Muslims in every part of the globe, claiming that they're simply terrorists in the making if "they follow the Quran".




     

    Stats time!

     

    1. Pew Research (2007):     26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.

                                               35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).

                                               42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).

                                               22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified (13% overall).

                                               29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified (25% overall).

    2. ICM Poll:                         20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers.

    3. NOP Research:               25% of British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified.

    4. FSIS:                               18% of Muslim students in Britain would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.

    5. ICM Poll:                         25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.

    6. Pew Research (2007):     Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified.

    7. CSC:                              33% of British Muslim students support killing for Islam.

    8. Policy Exchange:            33% of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed.

    9. GfK NOP:                       28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state.

    10. NOP Research:            68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam.

    11. Policy Exchange:         51% of British Muslims believe a woman cannot marry a non-Muslim. Only 51% believe a Muslim woman may marry without a guardian's consent.

    12. NOP Research:           62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech. Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro freedom of speech line.”

    13. Parisian Muslims:       75% of women wear their masks out of fear–including fear of violence.

     

    1 & 6. http://www.pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll reveals 40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

    3. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879. shtml&date=2011-04-06

    4. http://www.fosis.org uk/sac/FullReport.pdf and danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

    5. http://www.icmresearch.com/pdfs/2004_november_guardian_muslims_poll.pdf

    7. http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/files/1231525079_1.pdf (if site is down - mirror: conservativehome.blogs.com/files/1292336866_1-1.pdf)

    8, 9, & 11. http://www.civifas.org/uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

    10 & 12. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06

    13. http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3402230

     

    FSIS: Federation of Student Islamic Societies

    CSC: Center for Social Cohesion

     

    OOPS. Looks like they support exactly what I say they support. You want the verses from the Quran that prove what I’m saying, too? I’d be happy to post them.

     

    Maybe focus less on your post count


     

    Aww, cute.

     

    …they’re a normal human being just like you…


     

    Who, unlike me, wants to kill everyone who disagrees with me.

     

        As demonstrated in every interview, the answer is simple. “As a Muslim, I don’t support the actions of IS.” “As a Muslim, I don’t support beheading journalists and murdering women and children.” As a Muslim, I don’t support killing religious minorities; they do not do this in my name.”

        Try getting them to say it. Just try. They won’t. They’ll do anything to avoid answering that question. They’ll deflect and strawman and do mental gymnastics, but they’ll never condemn “extremism”. Why do you think their default response to being challenged is to dredge up colonialism, the war on terror, Israel, and any other minor injustice they can remember from Islamic history, real or imagined, that fits their victim complex?

        Because they fucking support it.

        Islam and “extremism” are inseparable. They may not be willing to give up their cushy lives and go pick up a gun–they may not be willing to cut off a guy’s head with their own knife–but if IS rolled into town tomorrow, they wouldn’t take up arms against them, they wouldn’t fight for their Christian and Jewish and Hindu and Sikh and secular neighbors, they wouldn’t stand up and advocate for the people who have payed their welfare and educated their children and healed their sick. They’d stand there and watch them be slaughtered, and they wouldn't even lose sleep over it. Because that is what it means to be a Muslim. Not a religion of peace, but a religion of passive indifference to violence committed in your name. You know the difference between a Westerner and a Muslim? Westerners protested the war on terror, they protested intervention, immigration, and they have advocated for and protected their Muslim neighbors. Not all of them, and not every time, but frequently enough to make it obvious that not everyone supports these actions. You know who Muslims have advocated for and protested for?

    Themselves. That's it.

  • Reply 147 of 183
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

    "Islam" isn't responsible for anything.

     

    See the bottom of the post for the rebuttal to this.

     

    Or is "ISIS", who is killing mostly Muslims, and being fought against mostly by Muslims, considered "Islam" to you?


     

    YEP. Because it’s considered Islam to who they’re killing, the people doing the killing, and the muslims on the sidelines.

     
    So Christianity is not responsible for any of these things?

     

    Nope.

     

    Ever heard of the Cruasades?


     

    You mean the response to nearly a millennium of Christian genocide? Yeah, I’ve heard of it.

     

    That wiped out some of the largest and most valuable respositories of science and knowledge.


     

    Hmm. Such as?

     


    ALL these were "in the name of Christianity"

     

    No, no, no. Try again.

     

        There is an easy response to this. Simply ask whether the prophet Muhammad was a Muslim and whether he led an exemplary life. As he spent most of his life as a roving warlord, if his life was a good example, then IS is living the example much more than any westernized muslim. If this doesn’t work, ask whether the person with whom you are conversing agrees that beliefs affect behavior. For example, if one believes that homosexuality, apostasy, and blasphemy are crimes that should be punished by death, do you think that makes the person holding that view more or less likely to commit violence against a blasphemer or gay?

        Ask what counts as Islam and “Islamic”–if the words spoken by Muhammad and the life he lead don’t count as Islamic, call bullshit. Do the things Jesus said count as Christianity? Of course.

        Give a counter example. If a Quaker or Buddhist or Hare Krishna goes on a killing spree and says he is doing it in the name of Krishna, are there any parts of the Bhagavad Gita that support him? Did the Buddha ever encourage murder? No. So you could very easily say that the attack was un-Buddhist or un-Krishna.

        Give examples of systemic Islamic violence. Saudi Arabia has public stoning as a (rare, but) legal form of execution. Homosexuals, adulteresses, blasphemers, and apostates are regularly executed. Is that un-Islamic? Seriously, is Saudi Arabia un-Islamic? That would be like suggesting that Vatican City isn’t Catholic.

        This all boils down to people thinking that religious beliefs are all the same, which is utter bullshit. Some religious teach peace and have long histories thereof (Buddhism, Jainism, Hare Krishna-ism, Quakerism, etc.); others teach violence and have histories of violence–Islam being the chief proponent.

  • Reply 148 of 183
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

     

    The only time Islam is at peace is when they are in complete control.

     

    None of this though really pertain to the story at hand...


     

    You makes some sort-of-valid points but they are weak for being highly selective.

     

    You leave out the long and continued history of the west using militaries and weapons to make a mess of Middle Eastern politics. You can't prop up bad people and expect good people (and most people are good no matter what their religion) to not become extremely frustrated.  Do it for several decades and that frustration/dislike is going to be institutionalized.

     

    You can't go to war on one pretext only to find out the pretext was not accurate, inevitably killing many civilians in the process, and expect good intentions to avoid creating lifelong or even multi-generational enemies.

     

    You also leave out oil as a major reason why we have had any tension and need to meddle with the Middle East at all.

     

    The blowback from a long history of political coercion, poorly thought out wars, enormous numbers of civilian casualties and victims, would be just as strong if the Middle East was full of Protestants, Catholics, Hindus or Raëlians.  Hell, we should be glad they are not Texans because they wouldn't have just taken down a few planes on a one time basis. They would not have stopped until we were completely out of the area.

     

    It also doesn't help when people here demonize Islam as if it were the ONLY culprit.  When politicians or empty headed media heads do that, they are just helping radicalization on both sides.

     

    I.e. your are partly right about Islam, but why not go the whole way and acknowledge its far more complex than just that.

  • Reply 149 of 183
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     
    Stats time!

     

    1. Pew Research (2007):     26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.

                                               35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).

                                               42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).

                                               22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified (13% overall).

                                               29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified (25% overall).

    2. ICM Poll:                         20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers.

    3. NOP Research:               25% of British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified.

    4. FSIS:                               18% of Muslim students in Britain would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.

    5. ICM Poll:                         25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.

    6. Pew Research (2007):     Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified.

    7. CSC:                              33% of British Muslim students support killing for Islam.

    8. Policy Exchange:            33% of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed.

    9. GfK NOP:                       28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state.

    10. NOP Research:            68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam.

    11. Policy Exchange:         51% of British Muslims believe a woman cannot marry a non-Muslim. Only 51% believe a Muslim woman may marry without a guardian's consent.

    12. NOP Research:           62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech. Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro freedom of speech line.”

    13. Parisian Muslims:       75% of women wear their masks out of fear–including fear of violence.

     

    1 & 6. http://www.pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll reveals 40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

    3. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879. shtml&date=2011-04-06

    4. http://www.fosis.org uk/sac/FullReport.pdf and danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

    5. http://www.icmresearch.com/pdfs/2004_november_guardian_muslims_poll.pdf

    7. http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/files/1231525079_1.pdf (if site is down - mirror: conservativehome.blogs.com/files/1292336866_1-1.pdf)

    8, 9, & 11. http://www.civifas.org/uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

    10 & 12. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06

    13. http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3402230

     


     

    Those are actually some genuinely worrying numbers, if correct. Just out of interest, are they representative poll results, or did you selectively choose them to make the point? 

  • Reply 150 of 183
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    You mean the response to nearly a millennium of Christian genocide? Yeah, I’ve heard of it.

     


     

    Let me get this straight, you are saying massacres of Jews was ok because the Jews committed a millennium of genocide against Christians?

     

    Let me point out the huge difference between stopping unjust behavior, militarily if need be, versus committing unjust behavior on innocent people and blaming the past misdeeds of others.  Not to mention that many of the raids were carried out in order to pillage, literally as raiding parties, not in order to set anything "right".

     

    Your understanding of the crusades seems utterly warped just to make whatever point you want to.

  • Reply 151 of 183
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

    Those are actually some genuinely worrying numbers, if correct. Just out of interest, are they representative poll results, or did you selectively choose them to make the point? 

     

    As far as I know, they’re only selective in that they apply only to the US’ and Britain’s muslim population (sorry I don’t have stats for the wider western world). I believe they’re otherwise representative of Muslims both in the West and elsewhere. Let’s see what else I can find.

     

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/066chpzg.asp?page=1

    http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://web.archive.org/web/20060427065304/http://www.franciscansinternational.org/news/article.php?id=928&date=2012-08-20

    @03&date=2012-08-20" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://web.archive.org/web/20060822190706/http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailweekly.asp?fileid=20060728.@03&date=2012-08-20

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/jan/29/thinktanks.religion

    http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06

     

    Some of these may reference what I’ve already cited. Dang, I had a nice image that illustrated the global views, but I can’t find it. 

     

    ?I may just go ahead and post P,V,&A, but it should be its own post.

  • Reply 152 of 183
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by Nevermark View Post

    Let me get this straight, you are saying massacres of Jews was ok because the Jews committed a millennium of genocide against Christians?

     

    Christian doctrine allows for defensive protection of your life, as well as grudges to be held against the enemies of God (just not personal grudges). So a massacre of jews? No. But killing to stop a genocide of you and your brothers doesn’t seem like it’s too unreasonable, does it? There’s no call for going out and killing jews (both in biblical terms and in general), but as they’ve rejected Christianity there’s a call to convert them.

     

    It’d be kind of nice if they stopped kidnapping christian children and sacrificing them, though.

     
    Since you seem to be completely unhinged

     

    Oh, I can imagine the rest of this post will remain unbiased.

     
     …the huge difference between stopping unjust behavior, militarily if need be, versus committing unjust behavior on innocent people

     

    I’d let you do that, but I already did it, since you don’t seem to understand it.

     

     Your understanding of the crusades seems utterly warped just to make whatever point you want to.


     

    Oh, irony.

     

    Some historical events that preceded the First Crusade:

    AD 632 — Muhammad's death.

    AD 635 — Christian Damascus fell to invading Muslims.

    AD 636 — Christian Antioch fell to invading Muslims.

    AD 638 — Christian Jerusalem–and later Alexandria–fell to invading Muslims.

    AD 642 — Egypt falls to Muslims

    AD 650 — Muslim armies reached Cilicia and Caesarea of Cappodocia. In the same period, Muslim forces carried out raids on Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete, and Sicily, carrying off thousands of Christian slaves.

    AD 668 — Muslim armies laid siege to Constantinople. They were repulsed.

    AD 711 — Muslim armies invaded Spain. By AD 715 they had conquered most of Spain.

    AD 717 — Muslim armies again laid siege to Constantinople. Again repulsed.

    AD 732 — Muslim armies invaded France. Charles Martel stopped them at Tours.

    AD 792 — The Muslim ruler of Spain, Hisham, called for a new invasion of France. An international Islamic crusade was assembled, and was repulsed by the French.

    AD 827 — Muslim warriors invaded Italy and Sicily, terrorized monks, and raped nuns. Sicily was held by Muslims until AD 1091.

    AD 846 — Muslim armies reached Rome, where they forced the Pope to pay them tribute.

    AD 848 — France was again invaded by Muslims. And again repulsed.

    AD 1095 — Pope Urban II launched the FIRST Crusade.

     

    By the time the Crusades finally began, Muslim armies had conquered two-thirds of the Christian world. 

  • Reply 153 of 183
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    razorpit wrote: »
    Your argument fails because white people aren't killing white people because their religion tells them to.  ISIS and most terrorists attacks against white people are specially because they are following their religion.  One or two people with mental problems does not equate to tens of thousands of people fighting a war for Allah.

    So you're claiming that the Bible (which covers multiple religions that aren't Islam) has zero hate speech, zero statements about violence on others for being or acting a certain way, and absolutely no one has ever used it as a way to do awful things in the name of The Lord? Wow, that's some magic make-believe world you've built up for yourself.
  • Reply 154 of 183

    Wait...What??

     

    We go from "we must protect data" to "if you protect data you're helping terrorism"?

     

    The world has gone completely bonkers.

  • Reply 155 of 183
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

     

    By the way, I don't assume everyone here is from the USA, nor do I assume it is the only country on the planet.  I am an American, and the majority of posters here are Americans, posting in a forum originally started to discuss an American company's products.  I do know that your condescending european bullshit is nothing new.  


    Who tells you I am european?

    BTW thanks for your offensive language, nice touch. (including what was edited out from your original post)

  • Reply 156 of 183
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mike1 View Post

     

    Don't blame conservatives for this one. It's the socialist Obama and his cronies who are pushing this.




    Right.... That's adorable you think its political.

    Its the security apparachnicks that is party independent that's doing this. They do the same whoever's in power.

    That's why all the Snowden revealed crap started under Bush.

    They run the same no matter who is there.

    In a way this is frightening because it makes them harder to stop.

  • Reply 157 of 183
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bsimpsen View Post



    It seems to me the same argument could be made about the liability of gun manufacturers. Certainly they've been warned that terrorists might use their products.



    I'd like to know why, when you see those ISIS guys running around, a lot of the time they are armed with American made weapons?

  • Reply 158 of 183
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,015member
    pakitt wrote: »
    Who tells you I am european?
    BTW thanks for your offensive language, nice touch. (including what was edited out from your original post)

    Your line about having a passport. I've seen other people here pull the same crap. Oh, and as for the language, you're fucking welcome! :D
  • Reply 159 of 183
    And who sold our current enemy-of-the-month the weapons that they then use to attack us? Who manufactured them? I reckon that the result of those activities is likely to be way more dangerous to a long and healthy life than an encrypted smartphone.
  • Reply 160 of 183
    nousernouser Posts: 65member

    Problem for you is that he is right.

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