Conventional watch sales slide after Apple Watch launch, NPD says

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  • Reply 81 of 144
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Patience Grasshopper. . .

    ok so there's nothing that does what he asked about and what you offered. see the difference? Apple Watch is a real product that does real things, and the features were talking about don't exist in other products. maybe they will some day, since Apple is yet again leading the way and the othere follow in line as usual, but today, nobody.
  • Reply 82 of 144
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,508member
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    ok so there's nothing that does what he asked about and what you offered. see the difference? Apple Watch is a real product that does real things, and the features were talking about don't exist in other products. maybe they will some day, since Apple is yet again leading the way and the othere follow in line as usual, but today, nobody.
    Do you actually read what I post or just imagine it says something else so as to have something to argue with?
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Of course they can. There's companies already working on them. Kairos, Tag Heuer, Bulgari. . .
  • Reply 83 of 144
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Of course Apple will take the lions-share of profits in this space. It's hard to compete with a captive and dedicated user-base of millions. Not impossible, but darn hard to do.

    oh, you mean the sheeple? the iArmy? mindless drones who buy anything with an apple logo?

    nonsense. have you ever stopped to ask why Apple has the customer base it does? because taste.
  • Reply 84 of 144
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,508member
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    oh, you mean the sheeple? the iArmy? mindless drones who buy anything with an apple logo?
    And yet more imagination about what I wrote compared to what you would like to think was written, and again just to have something to argue with IMO.
  • Reply 85 of 144
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    cnocbui wrote: »
    I have said absolutely nothing about the long term future or any thoughts I might have in that regard.  I was responding to this AI article which is trying to imply that the Apple watch is having a negative impact on US watch sales right here and now.  I am glad you  agree with me that it is silly to think the Apple Watch could be having such an immediate effect.

    nonsense. the article states the "what" (slumped sales) not the "why" -- you're adding your own narrative atop the what.
  • Reply 86 of 144
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    bkkcanuck wrote: »
    It is putting your TV in a gold cabinet..... it will make you tv look wonderful but it still has cheap / rapidly obsolete components inside of it.   Spending $15,000 on an Apple Watch is spending $15,000 on a disposable item....  Spending $15,000 on quality jewelry is going to last a lifetime - in many cases handed down to future generations....  Apple watch $15,000 in 3 years.... and you have to find what to use that hunk of gold for now.

    It only serves to flash that you have it... 

    you're committing a common mistake -- applying rational value adds to a luxury purchase. the very wealthy don't buy a gold watch to pass it on to future generations. they buy it because it's a fucking solid gold watch -- to show it off. it's a status symbol, not an investment.

    same thing.
  • Reply 87 of 144
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    bkkcanuck wrote: »
    Somebody's a little cranky today....

    doubtful. just the same ole stuff from the anti Apple apologists.
  • Reply 88 of 144
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,508member
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    nonsense. the article states the "what" (slumped sales) not the "why" -- you're adding your own narrative atop the what.

    First sentence: "American sales of conventional watches fell by the steepest amount in seven years during the month of June, a decline linked in part to the debut of the Apple Watch..."

    If you want to burst on the scene with guns blazing and fire in your eyes then fine, but at least argue real issues.
  • Reply 89 of 144
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Do you actually read what I post or just imagine it says something else so as to have something to argue with?

    you seem confused. the OP said the AW does things, practical things, that no one else does. as a counter you cited some nonexistent vaporeware. i pointed out that your counter example was nonexistent vaporeware and not products. you then went about your normal mental gymnastics to get whatever you get out of making a case for non Apple solutions.

    get over yourself and be honest.
  • Reply 90 of 144
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    And yet more imagination about what I wrote compared to what you would like to think was written, and again just to have something to argue with IMO.

    nope. you claimed Apple has its rich success because there's a huge "captive" (your term) market of buyers. I pointed out that they aren't captive, that they willingly choose Apple for very good reasons.

    stop pretending.
  • Reply 91 of 144
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    First sentence: "American sales of conventional watches fell by the steepest amount in seven years during the month of June, a decline linked in part to the debut of the Apple Watch..."

    If you want to burst on the scene with guns blazing and fire in your eyes then fine, but at least argue real issues.

    "fire in your eyes"...? my god you're a dramatic one. you aren't a Christian being thrown to the lions by Romans.
  • Reply 92 of 144
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,508member
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    you seem confused. the OP said the AW does things, practical things, that no one else does. as a counter you cited some nonexistent vaporeware. i pointed out that your counter example was nonexistent vaporeware and not products. you then went about your normal mental gymnastics to get whatever you get out of making a case for non Apple solutions.

    get over yourself and be honest.
    Go back and read more carefully what I responded to instead of that imaginary thing you're making it to be.

    The OP said "Utility - what something can do - will ultimately prevail. People will come to expect that thing on their wrist to track at to of their fitness, alert them about appointments (a very watch-like function that mechanical watches simply cannot provide)'"

    I made a very valid comment about what was possible, followed up by links to what I was referring to, which the OP may have appreciated tho you obviously would rather not know about. Get over it yourself sir.
  • Reply 93 of 144
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post





    nonsense. the article states the "what" (slumped sales) not the "why" -- you're adding your own narrative atop the what.



    Trying to be cute.

     

    Quote:


     Conventional watch sales slide after Apple Watch launch, NPD says


    ...


    a decline linked in part to the debut of the Apple Watch, market research firm NPD Group said on Friday.

     


  • Reply 94 of 144
    bkkcanuckbkkcanuck Posts: 862member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post





    doubtful. just the same ole stuff from the anti Apple apologists.

    Really, I guess you have not read pretty well all of my posts.  If I am anti-Apple then I guess that makes anyone that disagrees with you on one item or has a slightly different viewpoint an anti Apple apologist... which by definition would make you a zealot.  

     

    I have a Mac Pro, several Mac Minis, an iPhone, and pretty much drool over everything that Apple releases.  I have posted that I think the launch of the Watch overall was a success.... But god forbid I don't see the Apple gold watch as a work of art but a technological device wrapped in gold and you go all "you are an anti Apple apologist" on me.  

  • Reply 95 of 144
    bkkcanuckbkkcanuck Posts: 862member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post





    you're committing a common mistake -- applying rational value adds to a luxury purchase. the very wealthy don't buy a gold watch to pass it on to future generations. they buy it because it's a fucking solid gold watch -- to show it off. it's a status symbol, not an investment.



    same thing.

    You are making a common mistake - assuming that all rich people that buy quality items are ostentatious and buy things because of a status symbol.   They buy it because they can and if they are going to buy something it is going to be quality.  Most of them you would walk buy on the street and you might think - they are well dressed or something, but not overly flashy.  More like Tim Cook than your Music Idols - who although he has loads of cash only has a modest house in comparison.  The quality of the gold watch is EXACTLY the same as the sport watch.... it just has a gold case to flash around.

  • Reply 96 of 144
    quinney wrote: »
    gatorguy wrote: »
    bkkcanuck wrote: »
    When you get a luxury watch you get a product that most likely will last you a lifetime....  and they tend to appreciate over the period.  An Apple watch is a consumable good - it will likely have a limited lifespan after which you will have to go out and buy the new version.... completely different markets.
    Of note a smart-watch scheduled to debut later this year from one of the Swiss companies will have replaceable digital cores allowing hardware updates for the watch you bought. No need to buy a brand-new one to get new features or faster hardware.

    Android?

    It will be much better than the Apple watch. This one will have a little bird pop out and coo coo the hour. Beat that, Apple!!!
  • Reply 97 of 144
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post





    It will be much better than the Apple watch. This one will have a little bird pop out and coo coo the hour. Beat that, Apple!!!

    And the bird will poop gold nuggets as well.

  • Reply 98 of 144
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bkkcanuck View Post

     

    You are making a common mistake - assuming that all rich people that buy quality items are ostentatious and buy things because of a status symbol.   They buy it because they can and if they are going to buy something it is going to be quality.  Most of them you would walk buy on the street and you might think - they are well dressed or something, but not overly flashy.  More like Tim Cook than your Music Idols - who although he has loads of cash only has a modest house in comparison.  The quality of the gold watch is EXACTLY the same as the sport watch.... it just has a gold case to flash around.


     

    Oh, fricking please, I'm one of those god damn "rich people" you like to talk about.... and most of my friends are in that demo too, most of them gives of damn about "investing" in a god damn watch, car or whatever. They mostly they give a crap about the long term value except for their houses and their stocks. It is incidental to their current appreciation of it, just like for any other thing they buy.

     

    When owning a house/shack in the valley, or even worse the peninsula, is 2-5M, living there is ostentatious enough....

    Thank god I got out of there to Canada and only paid less than half price for something much much better....

     

    A high end watch is bought for :

    - Prestige (comes from history, nostalgia, etc)

    - Quality (hopefully high price equals the highest attention to this)

    - Esthetics/Design (Most design is frozen in time, linked to prestige)

    - Workmanship (for a small portion of buyers, this is the most important part, this applies mostly to the very high end). This is a bit like people buying "arts and craft" stuff in the 1910s in reaction to industrial production ramping up and making high quality goods once only accessible to rich people, accessible to the masses. Not having access to skilled artisan didn't mean inferior quality anymore... That happened 100 years ago, yet some people have still not recovered form that.

    - Service

     

    Its future value that trolls keep whining about comes way way down the list, except for rare expensive older watches that are truly bought for investment like art pieces, the very high end were production is low and bespoke pieces. And this only apply to a small sliver of the high end past watches (same as with cars). This part of the market, Apple is very happy to leave to whoever wants it; it is that small.

     

    Most watches, even relatively expensive ones make horrible investments.

    Unless buying watches at Christie's or Sotheby's,

    they're generally trivially small amount of cash that can't really be used park substantial investments.

    Better to plow millions in a basket of diversified firms that fit someone's risk profile, when they want a real return on investment.

     

    Apple can easily beat those high end watches in all areas except maybe historic prestige (though Apple's brand prestige is one of the highest) and workmanship (which is only important those the minority that value it, like 100 years ago).

     

    In everything else, those watch makers will lose control of their own platform (like smart phone OEM) and produce essential functional clones (because they don't have the internal expertise and create something unique) that will vary on esthetics alone. These watches will also be much bigger than integrated solutions (so, none for women and for many men).

     

    BTW, the esoteric qualities of a 20K watch is driven by marketing over decades, the same you despise Apple from even attempting.

  • Reply 99 of 144
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

     

     

    Oh, fricking please, I'm one of those god damn "rich people" you like to talk about.... and most of my friends are in that demo too, most of them gives of damn about "investing" in a god damn watch, car or whatever. They mostly they give a crap about the long term value except for their houses and their stocks. It is incidental to their current appreciation of it, just like for any other thing they buy.

     

    When owning a house/shack in the valley, or even worse the peninsula, is 2-5M, living there is ostentatious enough....

    Thank god I got out of there to Canada and only paid less than half price for something much much better....

     

    A high end watch is bought for :

    - Prestige (comes from history, nostalgia, etc)

    - Quality (hopefully high price equals the highest attention to this)

    - Esthetics/Design (Most design is frozen in time, linked to prestige)

    - Workmanship (for a small portion of buyers, this is the most important part, this applies mostly to the very high end). This is a bit like people buying "arts and craft" stuff in the 1910s in reaction to industrial production ramping up and making high quality goods once only accessible to rich people, accessible to the masses. Not having access to skilled artisan didn't mean inferior quality anymore... That happened 100 years ago, yet some people have still not recovered form that.

    - Service

     

    Its future value that trolls keep whining about comes way way down the list, except for rare expensive older watches that are truly bought for investment like art pieces, the very high end were production is low and bespoke pieces. And this only apply to a small sliver of the high end past watches (same as with cars). This part of the market, Apple is very happy to leave to whoever wants it; it is that small.

     

    Most watches, even relatively expensive ones make horrible investments.

    Unless buying watches at Christie's or Sotheby's,

    they're generally trivially small amount of cash that can't really be used park substantial investments.

    Better to plow millions in a basket of diversified firms that fit someone's risk profile, when they want a real return on investment.

     

    Apple can easily beat those high end watches in all areas except maybe historic prestige (though Apple's brand prestige is one of the highest) and workmanship (which is only important those the minority that value it, like 100 years ago).

     

    In everything else, those watch makers will lose control of their own platform (like smart phone OEM) and produce essential functional clones (because they don't have the internal expertise and create something unique) that will vary on esthetics alone. These watches will also be much bigger than integrated solutions (so, none for women and for many men).

     

    BTW, the esoteric qualities of a 20K watch is driven by marketing over decades, the same you despise Apple from even attempting.


    That 20K to 30K watch is going to last a lifetime.... period.  Same when you buy jewelry.... it can easily last 50 years - and then it is an antique if you have managed to hold on to it.  So even if you were to wear it over those 50 years the average cost per year is < $500 per year for a quality watch.  

     

    1st generation electronic devices last no more than 3 years before having to be replaced at $15K that is 5K per year.  The Apple watch is substantially more expensive in the long term than any quality luxury watch.  i.e. it really is a disposable device.

     

    I have no qualms about Apple making them, but it is NOT a major source of revenue... they did it so that Music stars will wear it and the Apple watch becomes an aspirational device to have....  where they will make more money from joe and betty watch-owner than the from gold watch.  But then many of those stars blow through money -- and some so fast that when they fade... they are in financial trouble.  A fool and his/her money is soon separated.  Not exactly a great role model.  

     

    To me rich is relative, poor is absolute (though western governments seem to want to redefine poor as relative - poor is you don't have enough to eat, have shelter and wear cloths ... the basics).  Rich means that you have amassed sufficient wealth to live comfortably until you die even if you have no more income.  It covers a wide range of people and I can only base it on people I am familiar with personally...  There is a lot of wealth out there - sometimes referred to as hidden because unless you know them or are their financial advisor you would never know how well of they are.  They or their family got there because they were not stupid financially, and would not be likely customers for gold packaged disposable technology.  

  • Reply 100 of 144
    The simple, unassailable points are as follows:

    1) Apple has sold more smartwatches within the first couple of months than all the rest put together did in the past year.

    2) Satisfaction rates for the product are off the charts.

    3) It is the largest selling new product in Apple's history, selling even more than the iPhone or the iPad.

    4) Overall watch sales seem to have fallen quite a bit in the month of June, in the U.S. It seems reasonable to attribute some of it to the Watch, especially in certain price segments. (My guess is that those are the most profitable -- in terms of aggregate profits -- price segments for higher-end watchmakers).

    5) The Swiss are scrambling. They don't have a viable response yet, but there are lots of announcements about what's coming. It remains to be see whether it will come, when, and how successful it will be. What we do know from the past is that such incumbent trash talk and bravado (e.g., Blackberry, Palm, Motorola) amounted a hill of beans.

    We'll have to see how it all plays out in the next couple of years, won't we? I can't wait. But I know where my bets lie. 8-)
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