I think we can all agree that it's easier to get a job at any given company when you know people that work there. Especially when those people you know are relatives or friends. You generally get benefit of the doubt by the hiring manager because someone he / she trusts vouched for you.
Given this fact, who is more likely to have help getting a job at Apple? Obviously latinos & blacks are a lot less likely to have existing connections at a company like Apple. Code2040 is helping those that are under represented and don't have anyone to vouch for them. It's helping level a highly uneven playing field that favors those who are already well represented in corporate america.
Hiring "the best", does not mean you hire "the best black and Latino" people, you just hire "the best" period. End of story.
And according to Apple's diversity policy, for these particular internships, black and Latino people are the best for the job. Filling a position is about more than being a code or design whizz, it means meeting a number of criteria dictated by policy.
And since Code2040 is the source, these kids definitely won't be incompetent, which was the implication I was responding to. "Incompetent", not "not the best", specifically "incompetent".
I think we can all agree that it's easier to get a job at any given company when you know people that work there. Especially when those people you know are relatives or friends. You generally get benefit of the doubt by the hiring manager because someone he / she trusts vouched for you.
Given this fact, who is more likely to have help getting a job at Apple? Obviously latinos & blacks are a lot less likely to have existing connections at a company like Apple. Code2040 is helping those that are under represented and don't have anyone to vouch for them. It's helping level a highly uneven playing field that favors those who are already well represented in corporate america.
I suspect there is a good legal case to be made against Code2040 for discriminatory practices. Do they only hire and represent (aka discriminate) in favor of two "groups"?
Who is going to make this "good legal case" against a charity that works to improve the life chances of underprivileged kids? That's a brave lawyer who's going to open themselves up to that kind of fire when there's next to no money to made from it.
I suspect there is a good legal case to be made against Code2040 for discriminatory practices. Do they only hire and represent (aka discriminate) in favor of two "groups"?
You should go do that, right after you complete the thousands of legal cases that need to be brought against the US government, state governments, police departments, corporate companies and private business that engaged in decades of systematic discrimination.
When we say "best person for the job" we are talking about important jobs, not working on a cash desk or helping customers. Any old schlep can do that, there's no need for quality there.
If you hire a designer, the best qualified guy should be hired, skin colour shouldn't and doesn't come into it. The fact is that white people are more likely to persue technical jobs and go to college to gain a higher education in this field. If non whites don't study for this, they don't get the jobs. It's like complaining that you don't win the Lotto but you don't play.
I find it racist that a scheme is helping out non whites because, if it was the other way around, it'd be racist as hell.
Let me correct that for you... 'white people are more likely to hire other white people' unless pushed to seriously consider other candidates that don't look like them.
"Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback."
Who is going to make this "good legal case" against a charity that works to improve the life chances of underprivileged kids? That's a brave lawyer who's going to open themselves up to that kind of fire when there's next to no money to made from it.
"Underprivileged kids"... (Rolleyes). This is a competitive world and handing out favors or privileges due to skin color is an insult.
"Underprivileged kids"... (Rolleyes). This is a competitive world and handing out favors or privileges due to skin color is an insult.
Right, because the USA has never given any benefits to white americans that weren't equally offered to people of color. For hundreds of years it's been a perfectly fair and level playing field based purely on competition and hard work. No one has ever been denied a job, a loan, or use of a water fountain based on their skin color.
You should go do that, right after you complete the thousands of legal cases that need to be brought against the US government, state governments, police departments, corporate companies and private business that engaged in decades of systematic discrimination.
IMO, discrimination of all kinds, not just based on skin color, occur every day and everywhere. Deep seated discrimination will never be exposed for what it is, it will end up being disguised as something else.
Of greater concern is corruption in government and favoritism that comes at the expense of taxpayers. In the private sector, people and businesses should be free to associate with whomever they want and not be forced to do anything the don't want to do, which may indeed result in what would be considered "discrimination", however it would be more constitutionally consistent and respect freedom of choice.
Ignorant people choose to discriminate based on ridiculous things and laws can't force people to be smarter or more accepting of others.
Right, because the USA has never given any benefits to white americans that weren't equally offered to people of color. For hundreds of years it's been a perfectly fair and level playing field based purely on competition and hard work. No one has ever been denied a job, a loan, or use of a water fountain based on their skin color.
Who is going to make this "good legal case" against a charity that works to improve the life chances of underprivileged kids? That's a brave lawyer who's going to open themselves up to that kind of fire when there's next to no money to made from it.
"Underprivileged kids"... (Rolleyes). This is a competitive world and handing out favors or privileges due to skin color is an insult.
Yea because whites never had any privileges because of their skin color.
So you're resorting to elementary kid level arguments now. If you had a valid point you would have made it instead of temporary teleporting yourself back to 3rd grade with that response.
"Underprivileged kids"... (Rolleyes). This is a competitive world and handing out favors or privileges due to skin color is an insult.
Really doesn't answer my question, no matter how much you roll your eyes. Like it or not, that is how Code2040 operates, and no one is going to bring suit against them. Just ain't going to happen bucko.
So you're resorting to elementary kid level arguments now. If you had a valid point you would have made it instead of temporary teleporting yourself back to 3rd grade with that response.
To the contrary, the accusation was vapid and broad brush. You laughably accused the entire U.S. of being racist. Try something real and specific.
Being white in the USA is a tremendous advantage that if you are white you can not possibly see or understand. "Reverse racism" is the lamest, knee jerk response from people that do not want to actually put any thought into this topic. It is like saying "support the troops" to people that oppose the possibility of entering or beginning a war. It sidetracks the discussion, diminishes the importance of the debate and makes the status quo stand.
I have said this before but it's worth saying again. In this world it is not what you know but who you know. Most of the advances I've made in my life have been through contacts that I was fortunately to have made. What do you think goes on in country clubs? Why do you think ambitious people network constantly? Minorities in general do not get to meet the people that will recognize their brains, talent and skills, this program is hoping to give these young people that chance. What they do with it is up to them but at least for the first time in many of their young lives they will a break.
When we say "best person for the job" we are talking about important jobs, not working on a cash desk or helping customers. Any old schlep can do that, there's no need for quality there.
If you hire a designer, the best qualified guy should be hired, skin colour shouldn't and doesn't come into it. The fact is that white people are more likely to persue technical jobs and go to college to gain a higher education in this field. If non whites don't study for this, they don't get the jobs. It's like complaining that you don't win the Lotto but you don't play.
I find it racist that a scheme is helping out non whites because, if it was the other way around, it'd be racist as hell.
Thanks for pointing out my jobs while I was in college was something "any old schlep can do". Guess what to get that second job an employer like to see that you had that first job. Nobody's first job is what most people work years to achieve. These program is about that entry not head or XYZ positions.
I am disappointed that so many readers of Apple-insider are so narrow minded and have such a narrow view of the world. I can only assume most people posting here do not have friends or family members which are considered a minority. I can also imagine most "reverse racists" comments come from people that never even see a person of color during the day, week or year. There is a big world out there and it appears to scare most of Appleinsiders readers. Think Different.
Being white in the USA is a tremendous advantage that if you are white you can not possibly see or understand. "Reverse racism" is the lamest, knee jerk response from people that do not want to actually put any thought into this topic. It is like saying "support the troops" to people that oppose the possibility of entering or beginning a war. It sidetracks the discussion, diminishes the importance of the debate and makes the status quo stand.
I have said this before but it's worth saying again. In this world it is not what you know but who you know. Most of the advances I've made in my life have been through contacts that I was fortunately to have made. What do you think goes on in country clubs? Why do you think ambitious people network constantly? Minorities in general do not get to meet the people that will recognize their brains, talent and skills, this program is hoping to give these young people that chance. What they do with it is up to them but at least for the first time in many of their young lives they will a break.
It's not about skin color, it's about who you know (as you noted) and it's about money. When you have money and know the right people, skin color is completely irrelevant.
Comments
Hiring "the best", does not mean you hire "the best black and Latino" people, you just hire "the best" period. End of story.
Quote:
"the best black and Latino computer science students in the U.S."
They won't be incompetent. Unless you're assuming that all black and Latino people are incompetent.
You can create all kinds of fantasies in your head, but that is where they will remain. *rolls eyes*
Quote:
Why are white men so threatened by women and minorities?
I think we can all agree that it's easier to get a job at any given company when you know people that work there. Especially when those people you know are relatives or friends. You generally get benefit of the doubt by the hiring manager because someone he / she trusts vouched for you.
Given this fact, who is more likely to have help getting a job at Apple? Obviously latinos & blacks are a lot less likely to have existing connections at a company like Apple. Code2040 is helping those that are under represented and don't have anyone to vouch for them. It's helping level a highly uneven playing field that favors those who are already well represented in corporate america.
And since Code2040 is the source, these kids definitely won't be incompetent, which was the implication I was responding to. "Incompetent", not "not the best", specifically "incompetent".
I suspect there is a good legal case to be made against Code2040 for discriminatory practices. Do they only hire and represent (aka discriminate) in favor of two "groups"?
I suspect there is a good legal case to be made against Code2040 for discriminatory practices. Do they only hire and represent (aka discriminate) in favor of two "groups"?
You should go do that, right after you complete the thousands of legal cases that need to be brought against the US government, state governments, police departments, corporate companies and private business that engaged in decades of systematic discrimination.
When we say "best person for the job" we are talking about important jobs, not working on a cash desk or helping customers. Any old schlep can do that, there's no need for quality there.
If you hire a designer, the best qualified guy should be hired, skin colour shouldn't and doesn't come into it. The fact is that white people are more likely to persue technical jobs and go to college to gain a higher education in this field. If non whites don't study for this, they don't get the jobs. It's like complaining that you don't win the Lotto but you don't play.
I find it racist that a scheme is helping out non whites because, if it was the other way around, it'd be racist as hell.
Let me correct that for you... 'white people are more likely to hire other white people' unless pushed to seriously consider other candidates that don't look like them.
"Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback."
http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html
"Underprivileged kids"... (Rolleyes). This is a competitive world and handing out favors or privileges due to skin color is an insult.
"Underprivileged kids"... (Rolleyes). This is a competitive world and handing out favors or privileges due to skin color is an insult.
Right, because the USA has never given any benefits to white americans that weren't equally offered to people of color. For hundreds of years it's been a perfectly fair and level playing field based purely on competition and hard work. No one has ever been denied a job, a loan, or use of a water fountain based on their skin color.
IMO, discrimination of all kinds, not just based on skin color, occur every day and everywhere. Deep seated discrimination will never be exposed for what it is, it will end up being disguised as something else.
Of greater concern is corruption in government and favoritism that comes at the expense of taxpayers. In the private sector, people and businesses should be free to associate with whomever they want and not be forced to do anything the don't want to do, which may indeed result in what would be considered "discrimination", however it would be more constitutionally consistent and respect freedom of choice.
Ignorant people choose to discriminate based on ridiculous things and laws can't force people to be smarter or more accepting of others.
Who is "The USA"? The USA is not a person.
Yea because whites never had any privileges because of their skin color.
Who is "The USA"? The USA is not a person.
So you're resorting to elementary kid level arguments now. If you had a valid point you would have made it instead of temporary teleporting yourself back to 3rd grade with that response.
To the contrary, the accusation was vapid and broad brush. You laughably accused the entire U.S. of being racist. Try something real and specific.
When we say "best person for the job" we are talking about important jobs, not working on a cash desk or helping customers. Any old schlep can do that, there's no need for quality there.
If you hire a designer, the best qualified guy should be hired, skin colour shouldn't and doesn't come into it. The fact is that white people are more likely to persue technical jobs and go to college to gain a higher education in this field. If non whites don't study for this, they don't get the jobs. It's like complaining that you don't win the Lotto but you don't play.
I find it racist that a scheme is helping out non whites because, if it was the other way around, it'd be racist as hell.
Thanks for pointing out my jobs while I was in college was something "any old schlep can do". Guess what to get that second job an employer like to see that you had that first job. Nobody's first job is what most people work years to achieve. These program is about that entry not head or XYZ positions.
I am disappointed that so many readers of Apple-insider are so narrow minded and have such a narrow view of the world. I can only assume most people posting here do not have friends or family members which are considered a minority. I can also imagine most "reverse racists" comments come from people that never even see a person of color during the day, week or year. There is a big world out there and it appears to scare most of Appleinsiders readers. Think Different.
It's not about skin color, it's about who you know (as you noted) and it's about money. When you have money and know the right people, skin color is completely irrelevant.