Sweat can vary in pH depending on certain stimulations such as medication, but sweat is not very acidic anyway, 4.5 - 7 usually. But, if you look at the design of the ?Watch, the inscription area is not directly in contact with the skin most of the time because the ceramic back is raised. I really don't think sweat or wear has anything to do with this issue. Seems to be more likely a manufacturing defect.
My brother had amazingly corrosive sweat. This is what happened to his Longines after only a couple of years of wear:
It wasn't a one-off either. He had a Seiko diving watch and that corroded as well.
They all have pictures, including the Apple logo being scratched off and entire back falling off.
All what? All 2, 5, 100? Out if how many again sold?
Maybe it's a first batch where something wasn't according to process specs. Maybe these people use a specific cream - you'd be surprised how this stuff can kill eg car interiors' surfaces. Who knows what happened to these specific watches.
No one has that data, except for maybe Apple. And they will fix this.
You remember the famous Toyota break issue? In the end almost all incidents were caused by drivers' mistakes and not the car.
Maybe it's a systematic issue affecting all users sooner or later. It's too early to tell. And by far too early to cry wolf.
The text is printed not engraved, of course its going to wear off over time. Sooner with some than others depending on activity. Also the Space-Grey anodising might be effecting the 'stickiness' of the text and logo. This really is a non-issue!
And just to give you an idea about failure rates: currently, a very good quality level is less than 10 ppm (Parts per million, six sigma = 3,4 ppm). Now this should hold for ANY single component and ANY single assembly process. So if you have eg 100 components and 20 assembly steps you end up with 120 times 3,4 ppm at 6 sigma = 408 defects out of 1 million assemblies. That's what usually economically acceptable. Any further significant increase in quality cost u proportionally more money. How many parts has the AopleWatch? How many processes? I'm sure way more. Therefore any small number of defects is simply what's to be expected.
Is this sort of scrutiny being applied to any other smartwatch, whatever Pebble is classified as (featurewatch?), or traditional watches?
I don't know, but u sure do get the feeling some people have completely unrealistic expectations as to what "quality" for a consumer grade product means. They expect nothing short of perfection.
Quality costs money. And I'm sure Apple does not apply low standards, but rather high ones. That's based on personal experience, the brand image of apple, the resale value of Apple products and other indicators.
But I'm sure your question was a rhetorical one
1) Not rhetorical, but I know it's not easily answered.
2) I appreciate your comment, and I agree. I also think that if enough people complain about the wearing off of of the text that they may etch in next time. Not that it's expensive but it does have a cost and does take time. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, it may not have solely been a cost issue for the Sport model, but could have been access to enough etching(engraving?) machines since the Sport models would be the most abundant being sold, or simply had enough time for that additional process for a device that was outselling the iPhone and iPad in units for its first 9 weeks on the market up to the first quarterly conference call.
1) Not rhetorical, but I know it's not easily answered.
2) I appreciate your comment, and I agree. I also think that if enough people complain about the wearing off of of the text that they may etch in next time. Not that it's expensive but it does have a cost and does take time. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, it may not have solely been a cost issue for the Sport model, but could have been access to enough etching(engraving?) machines since the Sport models would be the most abundant being sold, or simply had enough time for that additional process for a device that was outselling the iPhone and iPad in units for its first 9 weeks on the market up to the first quarterly conference call.
Usually you try to avoid changing over processes after SOP (start of serial production) unless it's giving significant savings or it's necessary to reach quality targets. Each process setup has to be qualified and released. That's additional effort you try to avoid.
From my gut feeling I would judge an approach you mentioned as not typical for Apple.
But it is not uncommon, especially in high volume products with steep ramp-ups to make compromises in the beginning. Depending on product lifetime and costs some try to get away with the compromise. Phones eg are a classic candidate where known errors do not get fixed because it doesn't make financial sense. That's for low margin products, however.
And even Apple needs to squeeze out any cent they can get to maintain their margins.
Maybe anodizing and etching is a hard to manufacture or expensive to manufacture combination.
Usually you try to avoid changing over processes after SOP (start of serial production) iunless it's giving significant savings or necessary to teach quality. Each process has to be qualified and releases. That's additional effort you try to avoid.
From my gut feeling I would an approach you mentioned as not typical for Apple.
But it is not uncommon, especially in high volume products with steep ramp-ups to make compromises.
Maybe anodizing and etching is a hard to manufacture combination.
To be clear, I don't mean change anything up for generation 1 Watch Sport, but perhaps for generation 2, the way that the iPhone 6 series will likely have a more reinforced case because of the negative attention it got last year with the invented bendghazi. I agree that generation 1 will not have any changes unless it's 1) to test out something new after it's no longer the current version (like the iPad 2's second iteration testing the 32nm process in the A5 instead of the 45nm process it originally came with), or 2) there is an actual health risk involves that would possibly require a recall (which simply is the case with text printed on aluminium).
The text is printed not engraved, of course its going to wear off over time. Sooner with some than others depending on activity. Also the Space-Grey anodising might be effecting the 'stickiness' of the text and logo. This really is a non-issue!
I can't tell, but it looks like the Apple logo color flaked off somehow. If it was merely printed wouldn't the undying color be the space grey not bright aluminum color? To me this looks like Er:YAG laser engraving which would penetrate the anodized layer. Our company makes such a device but it is used on titanium surgical implants.
Seriously? This is a thing people are complaining about? Really? I looked at the back of mine and can't even SEE the logo and writing they are so small, why would I care at all if something is rubbing off from normal wear and tear...Seriously??
I have the space gray sport watch and also have the same issue. I'm surprised by the people here claiming it's not really a defect, since it's clearly a defect. The paint is coming off on the side of the watch that is against your skin, and clearly is not from normal wear and tear. That said, is it really a defect I care about? No, not so much, but I did find it surprising for an Apple product. I now have my watch in a Lunatik Epik case, so I can't even see the worn off paint when I take the watch off.
I bought a Citizen eco-drive in 1993 in just that price bracket. It has run essentially continuously for over 30 years, never needing a battery or servicing or a single cent spent on it. I seem to recall the battery/capacitor is some amazing concoction of gold and titanium. Here is the back of it after 3 decades:
Besides time, what else can your amazing watch do? Nothing!
?Watch
I think you don't get the point.
To find out I suggest you wave your ?Watch at a lady and ask her "besides looking shiny, what can your amazing 2 carat diamond do?" Then study her reaction.
Besides time, what else can your amazing watch do? Nothing!
?Watch
Love how he compares a printed on for the Sport version to his engraved watch instead of the Watvh or Edition wh in clearly have much nicer engravings, if we really want to talk about quality.
As for, "mine is superior for never needing to be charged argument" he is clearly using some sort of electronic device to troll this forum instead of an Etch-A-Sketch or slmethjg else without power. Perhaps he's be better off just writing his vitriol in sand with a finger so we don't have to read it.
To find out I suggest you wave your ?Watch at a lady and ask her "besides looking shiny, what can your amazing 2 carat diamond do?" Then study her reaction.
*facepalm*
A diamond, in that sense, is purely jewelry. Was the traditional watch designed simply as jewelry? If one buys a watch with no interest in its utility while wearing it, doesn't that make them douchbags?
Comments
Seems someone flunked math... Or has a time machine.
Back to the Future?
Lol - whoops!
Lol - whoops!
Sorry, see you are in Ireland. Should have said
"Seems someone flunked maths"
Sweat can vary in pH depending on certain stimulations such as medication, but sweat is not very acidic anyway, 4.5 - 7 usually. But, if you look at the design of the ?Watch, the inscription area is not directly in contact with the skin most of the time because the ceramic back is raised. I really don't think sweat or wear has anything to do with this issue. Seems to be more likely a manufacturing defect.
My brother had amazingly corrosive sweat. This is what happened to his Longines after only a couple of years of wear:
It wasn't a one-off either. He had a Seiko diving watch and that corroded as well.
All what? All 2, 5, 100? Out if how many again sold?
Maybe it's a first batch where something wasn't according to process specs. Maybe these people use a specific cream - you'd be surprised how this stuff can kill eg car interiors' surfaces. Who knows what happened to these specific watches.
No one has that data, except for maybe Apple. And they will fix this.
You remember the famous Toyota break issue? In the end almost all incidents were caused by drivers' mistakes and not the car.
Maybe it's a systematic issue affecting all users sooner or later. It's too early to tell. And by far too early to cry wolf.
Sorry, see you are in Ireland. Should have said
"Seems someone flunked maths"
Possibly a case of flunking coffee. Thanks for the 'maths'.
The text is printed not engraved, of course its going to wear off over time. Sooner with some than others depending on activity. Also the Space-Grey anodising might be effecting the 'stickiness' of the text and logo. This really is a non-issue!
How many parts has the AopleWatch? How many processes? I'm sure way more.
Therefore any small number of defects is simply what's to be expected.
I don't know, but u sure do get the feeling some people have completely unrealistic expectations as to what "quality" for a consumer grade product means. They expect nothing short of perfection.
Quality costs money. And I'm sure Apple does not apply low standards, but rather high ones. That's based on personal experience, the brand image of apple, the resale value of Apple products and other indicators.
But I'm sure your question was a rhetorical one
1) Not rhetorical, but I know it's not easily answered.
2) I appreciate your comment, and I agree. I also think that if enough people complain about the wearing off of of the text that they may etch in next time. Not that it's expensive but it does have a cost and does take time. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, it may not have solely been a cost issue for the Sport model, but could have been access to enough etching(engraving?) machines since the Sport models would be the most abundant being sold, or simply had enough time for that additional process for a device that was outselling the iPhone and iPad in units for its first 9 weeks on the market up to the first quarterly conference call.
Usually you try to avoid changing over processes after SOP (start of serial production) unless it's giving significant savings or it's necessary to reach quality targets. Each process setup has to be qualified and released. That's additional effort you try to avoid.
From my gut feeling I would judge an approach you mentioned as not typical for Apple.
But it is not uncommon, especially in high volume products with steep ramp-ups to make compromises in the beginning. Depending on product lifetime and costs some try to get away with the compromise. Phones eg are a classic candidate where known errors do not get fixed because it doesn't make financial sense. That's for low margin products, however.
And even Apple needs to squeeze out any cent they can get to maintain their margins.
Maybe anodizing and etching is a hard to manufacture or expensive to manufacture combination.
To be clear, I don't mean change anything up for generation 1 Watch Sport, but perhaps for generation 2, the way that the iPhone 6 series will likely have a more reinforced case because of the negative attention it got last year with the invented bendghazi. I agree that generation 1 will not have any changes unless it's 1) to test out something new after it's no longer the current version (like the iPad 2's second iteration testing the 32nm process in the A5 instead of the 45nm process it originally came with), or 2) there is an actual health risk involves that would possibly require a recall (which simply is the case with text printed on aluminium).
Btw I like the term "bendghazi"
The text is printed not engraved, of course its going to wear off over time. Sooner with some than others depending on activity. Also the Space-Grey anodising might be effecting the 'stickiness' of the text and logo. This really is a non-issue!
I can't tell, but it looks like the Apple logo color flaked off somehow. If it was merely printed wouldn't the undying color be the space grey not bright aluminum color? To me this looks like Er:YAG laser engraving which would penetrate the anodized layer. Our company makes such a device but it is used on titanium surgical implants.
Seriously? This is a thing people are complaining about? Really? I looked at the back of mine and can't even SEE the logo and writing they are so small, why would I care at all if something is rubbing off from normal wear and tear...Seriously??
Besides time, what else can your amazing watch do? Nothing!
?Watch
I think you don't get the point.
To find out I suggest you wave your ?Watch at a lady and ask her "besides looking shiny, what can your amazing 2 carat diamond do?" Then study her reaction.
*facepalm*
Love how he compares a printed on for the Sport version to his engraved watch instead of the Watvh or Edition wh in clearly have much nicer engravings, if we really want to talk about quality.
As for, "mine is superior for never needing to be charged argument" he is clearly using some sort of electronic device to troll this forum instead of an Etch-A-Sketch or slmethjg else without power. Perhaps he's be better off just writing his vitriol in sand with a finger so we don't have to read it.
A diamond, in that sense, is purely jewelry. Was the traditional watch designed simply as jewelry? If one buys a watch with no interest in its utility while wearing it, doesn't that make them douchbags?