4K simply isn't mainstream enough yet. (Edit: and there's simply not the volume of content to make it a 'must have' - yet) I don't doubt that next year's ATV will support it, if this one can't through OS/firmware update. No big deal.
No, they got to where they are by producing products people actually wanted to buy and use, and that are much better than other offerings out there. The fact that you already know what they are going to launch is because there are now so many leaks, and people trying even harder to get info in advance. Apple continues to push state of the art in design, execution, quality, performance, support and customer satisfaction. Period.
By drastically improving the user experience, and by completely re-inventing the hardware to work with revolutionary software (mouse/icons; click wheel/menu; full screen/touch). An incrementally "better" (to be seen) Amazon Fire TV or a Microsoft Surface clone is not that. Apple delivered what 80% of the users of this forum imagined years ago. Meeting expectations of a few consumers is disappointing: see share price.
Listen, Apple TV is a nice product, I'll buy one eventually.
By drastically improving the user experience, and by completely re-inventing the hardware to work with revolutionary software (mouse/icons; click wheel/menu; full screen/touch). An incrementally "better" (to be seen) Amazon Fire TV or a Microsoft Surface clone is not that. Apple delivered what 80% of the users of this forum imagined years ago. Meeting expectations of a few consumers is disappointing: see share price.
Listen, Apple TV is a nice product, I'll buy one eventually.
I know what you mean. Apple used to surprise us with many things in the past. And by "surprise" I mean you didn't see it coming. At all. Going all the way back to the Apple II. To me, personally, the bests moments were (not necessarily in chronological a order):
- Mac SE30
- bondi blue iMac
- sunflower iMac
- MacBook G3 / wifi
- airport
- G4 cube
- Tiger
- iPod
- iPhone
- iTunes Match
- iPad mini
Those were moments where I had this spontaneous "must have" sensation.
So looking at this over time it seems it's getting less over time. Maybe it's age/experience/other priorities in life. Maybe, we get used to expecting that Apple beats our expectations.
When taking a step back I think it's some of all. But I definitely have the impression that some magic is lost.
Maybe because definitely none of the people on stage are even close to having the charisma of SJ when he did his shows. Maybe because there is just not a breakthrough tech around the corner every five years.
And for sure the world today is much more connected and complex than just 19 years ago. I watched the WWDC 2002 yesterday and man, that looks like from Stone Age. Sherlock? MPEG4? .Mac for $99? While almost ridiculous now, then that was a biggie. Today, you have much higher requirements and expectations to satisfy. Like in the current Bloomberg interview: he challenge is to continue to find something that is "inevitable" on hindsight and then creating the tech for it. Instead of advertising the huawei phone being able to double function as a scale using their "force touch". In other words: tech has made such big advancements that it's much more often the opposite way: wow, I found a new tech. Now let's find a way how to market that. Same like he 4K discussion IMO.
The one thing I see as a big advantage and at the same time Apple's biggest risk is they're dancing in many parties. Is the puck really going to be there in all cases?
I know what you mean. Apple used to surprise us with many things in the past. And by "surprise" I mean you didn't see it coming. At all. Going all the way back to the Apple II. To me, personally, the bests moments were (not necessarily in chronological a order):
- Mac SE30
- bondi blue iMac
- sunflower iMac
- MacBook G3 / wifi
- airport
- G4 cube
- Tiger
- iPod
- iPhone
- iTunes Match
- iPad mini
Those were moments where I had this spontaneous "must have" sensation.
So looking at this over time it seems it's getting less over time. Maybe it's age/experience/other priorities in life. Maybe, we get used to expecting that Apple beats our expectations.
When taking a step back I think it's some of all. But I definitely have the impression that some magic is lost.
Maybe because definitely none of the people on stage are even close to having the charisma of SJ when he did his shows. Maybe because there is just not a breakthrough tech around the corner every five years.
And for sure the world today is much more connected and complex than just 19 years ago. I watched the WWDC 2002 yesterday and man, that looks like from Stone Age. Sherlock? MPEG4? .Mac for $99? While almost ridiculous now, then that was a biggie. Today, you have much higher requirements and expectations to satisfy. Like in the current Bloomberg interview: he challenge is to continue to find something that is "inevitable" on hindsight and then creating the tech for it. Instead of advertising the huawei phone being able to double function as a scale using their "force touch". In other words: tech has made such big advancements that it's much more often the opposite way: wow, I found a new tech. Now let's find a way how to market that. Same like he 4K discussion IMO.
The one thing I see as a big advantage and at the same time Apple's biggest risk is they're dancing in many parties. Is the puck really going to be there in all cases?
You make good points. Maybe these are just meant to be incremental improvements, after all, all of tese products already exist now.
The one truly new product was the Watch, we will see how that pans out.
Then the car. That will be interesting.
Apple is increasingly becoming an OS provider like Microsoft in the '90s.
Yep. But Apple can’t even meet demand for the A9 in the iPhone, so they deferred to the better-selling product and gave the Apple TV what was left. Same will go for the iPad Pro, I imagine.
Why no A8X, then, is a matter of the time-honored tradition of Apple not just throwing the best hardware available into any given product.
But seems like a very bad idea in this case, no?
The last ATV was unchanged for years. There's no reason to suspect that won't be the case for this one too. Locking in at a lower limit seems really stupid.
The last ATV was unchanged for years. There's no reason to suspect that won't be the case for this one too. Locking in at a lower limit seems really stupid.
There was simply no need to update the product, for what it did (video only), it was plenty fast enough. Now with apps that do things other than play videos (such as picture in picture, games, etc.) I'm not sure a yearly update will be in the cards, but we could be pleasantly surprised. At this price point, some people will be much more able to justify upgrading with every iteration, especially if they happen to be game players, and that would not be something that escapes Apple's attention.
The more of these boxes that get out there, the bigger the install base and the more leverage Apple has with content producers. Upgrades always serve a boost in sales well, I can't imagine why Apple wouldn't upgrade this regularly.
You make good points. Maybe these are just meant to be incremental improvements, after all, all of tese products already exist now.
The one truly new product was the Watch, we will see how that pans out.
Then the car. That will be interesting.
Apple is increasingly becoming an OS provider like Microsoft in the '90s.
I think there is more going on. Apple introduced some real paradigm shifts with excellent solutions for real shortcomings. The GUI with mouse to solve the issue of the human brain working spatially and not in cmd lines plus creating a tool that indirectly lets you point on the screen, which is again a natural human concept.
The iPhone and multitouch solved again issues we complained about but didn't really realize had them.
To me, neither the computers, nor the watch, not the iPad have been solutions to similar issues. It's more going towards fashion and commodity. I agree that the iPad (still sold more than iPhones cumulatively, if I'm not mistaken) is a very nice product. But I see myself using it less and less. For one, because if larger pone screens and second because it's not there yet in terms of a laptop replacement. Close to it, but not there yet (ergonomics of switching between pencil, keyboard and touchscreen/trackpad). Which by the way was exactly the justification of its original introduction: a device that is better at something than the phone and the laptop. That distance is rapidly shrinking.
Similar with the watch. Yes, it makes a lot easier and more comfortable but it's not there yet as well. And it's nice and it's cool and it's amazing what you can do today when not so long ago "back then" 1.44MB floppy discs were so cool. And I'm sure I get mad be soon because I like such stuff and imagine to have enough justification why I need one but honestly, when I first saw it, I didn't get the goose pimples I got when I saw and heard "a phone. an iPod. An Internet communications device. A phone..."
And while this may come in future updates, like with the ATV, there is a huge difference to the GUI and the iPhone. The moment you see it you understand and you know the change it will bring to you is huge. You don't need to wait for the iterations to see the potential. I was so happy with the first iPhone which few years later is almost not worth while mentioning. Like Steve said: the moment you see a paper coming out of a laser printer for the first time you know you are into something. And this is what I'm missing.
And again, maybe unrightfully so, as we take more and more for granted - which btw is Apple's "fault" as well as they always insist on tech being perfect when it's most unobtrusive, and I fully agree to that. It just makes you lazy and fat easily. And yet, I dint find the answer why this "wow"-moments seem to fade away for now.
I mean, even a car (if they should make a full car). If they would present it tomorrow we'd be first to pick t out what it is all lacking and why it's an epic fail. And I would possibly think "oh. A car. By apple. Oh well. Nice". Because I cannot imagine what exactly Apple might come up with that makes my jaw drop again.
"Come on Apple, surprise us and do the unthinkable again!" Is what I wish.
This anti-4K argument is almost word for word the same as when 1080p was a nascent technology.
Today we have many phones capable of shooting 4K video, now including the iPhone.
Today we have many displays capable of displaying 4K content including the iMac, many different televisions, and even Sony's new flagship phone.
4K is the future. It's just getting started.
Fast forward 10 years and it will be 8K and the same exact arguments will happen all over again.
No kidding, but that's not the stupid argument happening here. Some people want Apple do what other companies do and bake in support for features not yet useful. How stupid is that?
No one needs 4K right this second. Give it 2 years when it is much more mature, and then Apple can come out with the 4K AppleTV and people will actually want it for that reason...unlike today when it would be a throwaway feature that is used by no one.
Apple is limited by what the content providers are willing to do. I hoped the new Apple TV had better 4k support, and they Apple could have tied it to a new H.265 4k service that improved on the crappy compression of the Netflix and Sony services (which look no better then 1080p)
But if the studios don't want to do that, then thats that. Perhaps, (although studios wanted to get rid of discs two years ago and were using for streaming), they realized 4k streaming or downloads were pointless from a quality or time perspective, and they are now getting behind the launch of UHD Blu Ray. Why muddy that launch with another attempt at streaming? Who knows, but the box could have been a lot more in this regard.
But as it stands, the HDMI 1.4a in the new Apple TV can do 24p film based material at 4k, so this still can happen.
Because it doesn't fucking exist at all anywhere? God you people are stupid.
Major studios have been scanning their film based material at 4k or higher for years, and as more and more films are shot digitally, they are 4k or higher as well. It readily exists - its a matter of how they want to market and monetize its release. Just like Apple has been collecting lossless versions of music for many years. They can turn a switch to provide higher quality music when they want (contracts permitting).
Ultra HD 4k Blu Ray is coming end of the year, and if H.265 or Google's new codec provide a breakthrough for high quality 4k streaming, we'll see that soon enough.
DirecTV has started with a small selection of PPV in 4k as well
Given Apple's large movie rental business, it would have been a nice move to take a lead here (think of all the good press - "Everyone's buying 4k TVs but there's nothing to watch - until today - Apple announce a new 4k movie service...")
Perhaps it still will happen, it just seems that yesterdays event with all the media attention, would have been the ideal place to announce it.
The list of what it's missing is fairly long. It's update is voice control, a better search and Siri. Look around you're the only one here thinking it's great. In spite of what you are saying it's the fourth generation. Apple's new slogan should be "Wait another five years it will be great"
I know your job is to troll here, but sog isn't alone -- ATV looks great. I'll be getting one for sure.
I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I agree with you. There's nothing new. But as someone who has wanted an App Store on Apple TV for years, I'm glad they finally did it.
This update will take Apple TV from "hobby" to serious product. I'm excited about it, even though it didn't deliver anything revolutionary. I think they wanted to keep it affordable, hence the aging tech. They aren't trying to compete with Xbox and PS either. They're capitalizing on the casual gaming market. For now.
This is a major step forward for TV.
nothing new? where was the contextual Siri search for content before this if it wasn't new? so confused.
Agree - I didn't want the new AppleTV to be a game console, I wanted it to be a new and better AppleTV. And it is.
I do wish the remote were a little larger, and I would have liked a keyboard (I know, Apple aesthetics, etc...) Frankly I was hoping the remote was basically going to be like an iPod - full screen w/keyboard. Instead, it looks like unless you use Siri (and let's face it, not everyone wants to talk to their devices, and it can be difficult / awkward to do so if you've got a crowd over, etc.), then you're still stuck with the single-letter-at-a-time spelling search.
now with Siri, why would you be searching via the remote keyboard?
New Apple TV just like Amazon Fire TV Box. Plays Appstore games and it will be good for Flappy Bird and simple point and click types. It won't hold a candle to Nvidia Shield Console for sure. I'm just not sure I should get Shield or hold off for SteamOS box.
that you're comparing it to niche hardcore gaming platforms shows you're out of touch with its objectives.
No kidding, but that's not the stupid argument happening here. Some people want Apple do what other companies do and bake in support for features not yet useful. How stupid is that?
No one needs 4K right this second. Give it 2 years when it is much more mature, and then Apple can come out with the 4K AppleTV and people will actually want it for that reason...unlike today when it would be a throwaway feature that is used by no one.
Folks are buying 4K HDTV's now, and by the millions. Wouldn't they want all the 4K content they could get? Sure they would.
Comments
4K simply isn't mainstream enough yet. (Edit: and there's simply not the volume of content to make it a 'must have' - yet) I don't doubt that next year's ATV will support it, if this one can't through OS/firmware update. No big deal.
I read this as well. It might refer to Music in the Cloud. I hope it doesn't.
Did I miss it or is there no optical? I don't think I can use this with my surround sound receiver
Update your surround sound receiver with HDMI 1.4 or later. Problem solved.
That solution increases the cost of a new Apple TV quite a bit.
There's got to be a more affordable solution. I don't use optical so I am not sure. I bet it's not a common problem that most people will run in to.
No, they got to where they are by producing products people actually wanted to buy and use, and that are much better than other offerings out there. The fact that you already know what they are going to launch is because there are now so many leaks, and people trying even harder to get info in advance. Apple continues to push state of the art in design, execution, quality, performance, support and customer satisfaction. Period.
By drastically improving the user experience, and by completely re-inventing the hardware to work with revolutionary software (mouse/icons; click wheel/menu; full screen/touch). An incrementally "better" (to be seen) Amazon Fire TV or a Microsoft Surface clone is not that. Apple delivered what 80% of the users of this forum imagined years ago. Meeting expectations of a few consumers is disappointing: see share price.
Listen, Apple TV is a nice product, I'll buy one eventually.
I know what you mean. Apple used to surprise us with many things in the past. And by "surprise" I mean you didn't see it coming. At all. Going all the way back to the Apple II. To me, personally, the bests moments were (not necessarily in chronological a order):
- Mac SE30
- bondi blue iMac
- sunflower iMac
- MacBook G3 / wifi
- airport
- G4 cube
- Tiger
- iPod
- iPhone
- iTunes Match
- iPad mini
Those were moments where I had this spontaneous "must have" sensation.
So looking at this over time it seems it's getting less over time. Maybe it's age/experience/other priorities in life. Maybe, we get used to expecting that Apple beats our expectations.
When taking a step back I think it's some of all. But I definitely have the impression that some magic is lost.
Maybe because definitely none of the people on stage are even close to having the charisma of SJ when he did his shows. Maybe because there is just not a breakthrough tech around the corner every five years.
And for sure the world today is much more connected and complex than just 19 years ago. I watched the WWDC 2002 yesterday and man, that looks like from Stone Age. Sherlock? MPEG4? .Mac for $99? While almost ridiculous now, then that was a biggie. Today, you have much higher requirements and expectations to satisfy. Like in the current Bloomberg interview: he challenge is to continue to find something that is "inevitable" on hindsight and then creating the tech for it. Instead of advertising the huawei phone being able to double function as a scale using their "force touch". In other words: tech has made such big advancements that it's much more often the opposite way: wow, I found a new tech. Now let's find a way how to market that. Same like he 4K discussion IMO.
The one thing I see as a big advantage and at the same time Apple's biggest risk is they're dancing in many parties. Is the puck really going to be there in all cases?
I know what you mean. Apple used to surprise us with many things in the past. And by "surprise" I mean you didn't see it coming. At all. Going all the way back to the Apple II. To me, personally, the bests moments were (not necessarily in chronological a order):
- Mac SE30
- bondi blue iMac
- sunflower iMac
- MacBook G3 / wifi
- airport
- G4 cube
- Tiger
- iPod
- iPhone
- iTunes Match
- iPad mini
Those were moments where I had this spontaneous "must have" sensation.
So looking at this over time it seems it's getting less over time. Maybe it's age/experience/other priorities in life. Maybe, we get used to expecting that Apple beats our expectations.
When taking a step back I think it's some of all. But I definitely have the impression that some magic is lost.
Maybe because definitely none of the people on stage are even close to having the charisma of SJ when he did his shows. Maybe because there is just not a breakthrough tech around the corner every five years.
And for sure the world today is much more connected and complex than just 19 years ago. I watched the WWDC 2002 yesterday and man, that looks like from Stone Age. Sherlock? MPEG4? .Mac for $99? While almost ridiculous now, then that was a biggie. Today, you have much higher requirements and expectations to satisfy. Like in the current Bloomberg interview: he challenge is to continue to find something that is "inevitable" on hindsight and then creating the tech for it. Instead of advertising the huawei phone being able to double function as a scale using their "force touch". In other words: tech has made such big advancements that it's much more often the opposite way: wow, I found a new tech. Now let's find a way how to market that. Same like he 4K discussion IMO.
The one thing I see as a big advantage and at the same time Apple's biggest risk is they're dancing in many parties. Is the puck really going to be there in all cases?
You make good points. Maybe these are just meant to be incremental improvements, after all, all of tese products already exist now.
The one truly new product was the Watch, we will see how that pans out.
Then the car. That will be interesting.
Apple is increasingly becoming an OS provider like Microsoft in the '90s.
Yep. But Apple can’t even meet demand for the A9 in the iPhone, so they deferred to the better-selling product and gave the Apple TV what was left. Same will go for the iPad Pro, I imagine.
Why no A8X, then, is a matter of the time-honored tradition of Apple not just throwing the best hardware available into any given product.
But seems like a very bad idea in this case, no?
The last ATV was unchanged for years. There's no reason to suspect that won't be the case for this one too. Locking in at a lower limit seems really stupid.
But seems like a very bad idea in this case, no?
The last ATV was unchanged for years. There's no reason to suspect that won't be the case for this one too. Locking in at a lower limit seems really stupid.
There was simply no need to update the product, for what it did (video only), it was plenty fast enough. Now with apps that do things other than play videos (such as picture in picture, games, etc.) I'm not sure a yearly update will be in the cards, but we could be pleasantly surprised. At this price point, some people will be much more able to justify upgrading with every iteration, especially if they happen to be game players, and that would not be something that escapes Apple's attention.
The more of these boxes that get out there, the bigger the install base and the more leverage Apple has with content producers. Upgrades always serve a boost in sales well, I can't imagine why Apple wouldn't upgrade this regularly.
I think there is more going on. Apple introduced some real paradigm shifts with excellent solutions for real shortcomings. The GUI with mouse to solve the issue of the human brain working spatially and not in cmd lines plus creating a tool that indirectly lets you point on the screen, which is again a natural human concept.
The iPhone and multitouch solved again issues we complained about but didn't really realize had them.
To me, neither the computers, nor the watch, not the iPad have been solutions to similar issues. It's more going towards fashion and commodity. I agree that the iPad (still sold more than iPhones cumulatively, if I'm not mistaken) is a very nice product. But I see myself using it less and less. For one, because if larger pone screens and second because it's not there yet in terms of a laptop replacement. Close to it, but not there yet (ergonomics of switching between pencil, keyboard and touchscreen/trackpad). Which by the way was exactly the justification of its original introduction: a device that is better at something than the phone and the laptop. That distance is rapidly shrinking.
Similar with the watch. Yes, it makes a lot easier and more comfortable but it's not there yet as well. And it's nice and it's cool and it's amazing what you can do today when not so long ago "back then" 1.44MB floppy discs were so cool. And I'm sure I get mad be soon because I like such stuff and imagine to have enough justification why I need one
And while this may come in future updates, like with the ATV, there is a huge difference to the GUI and the iPhone. The moment you see it you understand and you know the change it will bring to you is huge. You don't need to wait for the iterations to see the potential. I was so happy with the first iPhone which few years later is almost not worth while mentioning. Like Steve said: the moment you see a paper coming out of a laser printer for the first time you know you are into something. And this is what I'm missing.
And again, maybe unrightfully so, as we take more and more for granted - which btw is Apple's "fault" as well as they always insist on tech being perfect when it's most unobtrusive, and I fully agree to that. It just makes you lazy and fat easily. And yet, I dint find the answer why this "wow"-moments seem to fade away for now.
I mean, even a car (if they should make a full car). If they would present it tomorrow we'd be first to pick t out what it is all lacking and why it's an epic fail. And I would possibly think "oh. A car. By apple. Oh well. Nice". Because I cannot imagine what exactly Apple might come up with that makes my jaw drop again.
"Come on Apple, surprise us and do the unthinkable again!" Is what I wish.
No kidding, but that's not the stupid argument happening here. Some people want Apple do what other companies do and bake in support for features not yet useful. How stupid is that?
No one needs 4K right this second. Give it 2 years when it is much more mature, and then Apple can come out with the 4K AppleTV and people will actually want it for that reason...unlike today when it would be a throwaway feature that is used by no one.
Apple is limited by what the content providers are willing to do. I hoped the new Apple TV had better 4k support, and they Apple could have tied it to a new H.265 4k service that improved on the crappy compression of the Netflix and Sony services (which look no better then 1080p)
But if the studios don't want to do that, then thats that. Perhaps, (although studios wanted to get rid of discs two years ago and were using for streaming), they realized 4k streaming or downloads were pointless from a quality or time perspective, and they are now getting behind the launch of UHD Blu Ray. Why muddy that launch with another attempt at streaming? Who knows, but the box could have been a lot more in this regard.
But as it stands, the HDMI 1.4a in the new Apple TV can do 24p film based material at 4k, so this still can happen.
they're apps. how can you say "no" to apps?
so will the first.
Because it doesn't fucking exist at all anywhere? God you people are stupid.
Major studios have been scanning their film based material at 4k or higher for years, and as more and more films are shot digitally, they are 4k or higher as well. It readily exists - its a matter of how they want to market and monetize its release. Just like Apple has been collecting lossless versions of music for many years. They can turn a switch to provide higher quality music when they want (contracts permitting).
Ultra HD 4k Blu Ray is coming end of the year, and if H.265 or Google's new codec provide a breakthrough for high quality 4k streaming, we'll see that soon enough.
DirecTV has started with a small selection of PPV in 4k as well
Given Apple's large movie rental business, it would have been a nice move to take a lead here (think of all the good press - "Everyone's buying 4k TVs but there's nothing to watch - until today - Apple announce a new 4k movie service...")
Perhaps it still will happen, it just seems that yesterdays event with all the media attention, would have been the ideal place to announce it.
I know your job is to troll here, but sog isn't alone -- ATV looks great. I'll be getting one for sure.
nothing new? where was the contextual Siri search for content before this if it wasn't new? so confused.
That solution increases the cost of a new Apple TV quite a bit.
There's got to be a more affordable solution. I don't use optical so I am not sure. I bet it's not a common problem that most people will run in to.
There are extractor boxes on Amazon that pull the audio (at least up to 5.1, not sure about 7.1) from the HDMI stream and output it on an optical path
http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Converter-Extractor-Splitter-De-embedder/dp/B00ISQ8VB8
now with Siri, why would you be searching via the remote keyboard?
that you're comparing it to niche hardcore gaming platforms shows you're out of touch with its objectives.
http://www.businessinsider.com/4k-tv-shipments-are-taking-off-2014-5
http://press.ihs.com/press-release/design-supply-chain-media/4k-tv-panel-shipments-reached-monthly-record-3-million-units