I haven't read the entire thread, so pardon me if this has been covered.
[B]Siri Deep Links into Content -- especially Video content.[/B]
During the ATV demos Apple showed using Siri to: [LIST=1] [*] Locate all of all currently accessible [B][I] sources [/I][/B] of a specific Movie or TV show (iTunes, Netflix, HBO, etc.) [*] Locate videos featuring certain stars, combination of stars, directors, plots, editors, designers, etc. [*] Locate the exact position within a video where a certain scene/star appears [*] [/LIST]
This all involves metadata for Siri to search. 1 and 2, likely, could be gleaned from sources like IMDB ... but, where does 3 come from?
Does Apple generate this metadata?
Do the [B][I] sources [/I][/B] generate the metadata, and provide it to Apple?
Is someone creating metadata for each chapter or frame of the video?
Currently, on the Sony site there are a total of sixty-eight (68) 4K movies available. That's not a very big library. It won't always be this way, but for now, not including 4K only hurts those who want very much to claim hurt so they can attack Apple in the typical juvenile style that children on the internets do. No 4K is simply not an issue. Let's move on, ffs.
That solution increases the cost of a new Apple TV quite a bit.
There's got to be a more affordable solution. I don't use optical so I am not sure. I bet it's not a common problem that most people will run in to.
no, it doesn't increase the cost of Apple TV. I already have an hdmi recover and have for for years. if one has outdated equipment that isn't apple's deal. it's like saying having to wire your cabin with electricity increases the cost of a Mac. er, no...
he's not wrong. you provide no compelling argument to the contrary.
He may not be wrong that he read it somewhere. He may be wrong about its accuracy tho. Ultraflix alone claims to have more than 500 hours of "4K" content available. This is a good source for those wanting to catch up on what's out there. http://4k.com/movies/
Note they've only listed a sample of content. Other shows and movies are being added on a regular basis.
By drastically improving the user experience, and by completely re-inventing the hardware to work with revolutionary software (mouse/icons; click wheel/menu; full screen/touch). An incrementally "better" (to be seen) Amazon Fire TV or a Microsoft Surface clone is not that. Apple delivered what 80% of the users of this forum imagined years ago. Meeting expectations of a few consumers is disappointing: see share price.
Listen, Apple TV is a nice product, I'll buy one eventually.
Surface is itself a clone of iPad. Apple already had keyboard patents.
Imagining things is easy. implementing them well is the crafty part.
stock price is proof of something? hahahaha. get real. delighting customers and making money is boss. the only boss. read up:
I know what you mean. Apple used to surprise us with many things in the past. And by "surprise" I mean you didn't see it coming. At all. Going all the way back to the Apple II. To me, personally, the bests moments were (not necessarily in chronological a order):
- Mac SE30
- bondi blue iMac
- sunflower iMac
- MacBook G3 / wifi
- airport
- G4 cube
- Tiger
- iPod
- iPhone
- iTunes Match
- iPad mini
Those were moments where I had this spontaneous "must have" sensation.
So looking at this over time it seems it's getting less over time. Maybe it's age/experience/other priorities in life. Maybe, we get used to expecting that Apple beats our expectations.
When taking a step back I think it's some of all. But I definitely have the impression that some magic is lost.
Maybe because definitely none of the people on stage are even close to having the charisma of SJ when he did his shows. Maybe because there is just not a breakthrough tech around the corner every five years.
Apple didn't have breakthrough tech every five years since 1977...you're just remembering it wrong and being sentimental. the same complaints have been with us since the desktop computer -- "It's a toy! It's not for serious productivity!" etc...
when you read rumor sites daily, you're not gonna get many surprises.
He may not be wrong that he read it somewhere. He may be wrong about its accuracy tho. Ultraflix alone claims to have more than 500 hours of "4K" content available. This is a good source for those wanting to catch up on what's out there. http://4k.com/movies/
Note they've only listed a sample of content. Other shows and movies are being added on a regular basis.
you misunderstood. he's not wrong that "4K is still just too niche for Apple." and simply responding with "cool story bro" provides zero compelling argument to the contrary.
you misunderstood. he's not wrong that "4K is still just too niche for Apple." and simply responding with "cool story bro" provides zero compelling argument to the contrary.
He may not be wrong that he read it somewhere. He may be wrong about its accuracy tho. Ultraflix alone claims to have more than 500 hours of "4K" content available. This is a good source for those wanting to catch up on what's out there.
Note they've only listed a sample of content. Other shows and movies are being added on a regular basis.
The article you link states, "They give you 500+ hours of 4K viewing but most of the material that's available is not exactly exciting." They mean things like "Muse Live in Rome," "Usher OMG Tour London," "An assortment of other programming in sports, automotive, nature, travel, short films, trailers and Cablelabs 4K demo categories. They also offer moving 4K murals." Another site characterises Ultraflix's library as, "Aside from plenty of IMAX, the selection is weak. It's mostly stuff you've never heard of, albeit 500 hours' worth."
It's not my intention to slam the services out there, nor to imply that there will never be content, but as of today, as of right now extending to 1 or 2 years out, the library of 4K content out there just isn't very much. This seems so obvious I don't understand the confusion. There's simply not enough to fill the iTunes store, and Apple would never add a feature unless the user's first port of call (the iTunes store) had adequate content for that user to enjoy the feature for more than a few hours before running out of content, in typical Apple user experience excellence.
Before 1080p we got word that Apple had sent out notices to all the content providers that they could begin submitting their 1080p content, this was before the ATV supported 1080p, before the store and iTunes itself supported the content. The first news we'll have of 4K support will be rumours of content providers beginning to submit 4K content into the store, at that point we'll have an expectation of an upcoming 4K support in the ATV. Until then, the 8 people out there who have 4K sets, who have adequate bandwidth to download/stream 4K content, who would buy Apple, who would watch content in the existing library, they have a real gripe, but their gripe even today lasts validly only a few hours, then their argument runs out of steam, when the library has been exhausted. ;-)
IMO, Apple's ultimate vision is to create a box that dominates your living room.
And the new AppleTV is a great first step to that. But I think ultimately Apple will bring out its own television set with AppleTV hardware built in.
Just picture it and how easy it would be:
1. Buy AppleTV set
2. Place on TV stand
3. Plug in power
4. Done
With that single device you can watch live TV, Movies, TV shows, listen to music, look at photos, family videos, play games, home automation, home security, make FaceTime calls, shop, ect. I think that is the ultimate vision of the AppleTV. Ultimate simplicity.
Yawn.... Apple's vision and everyone else's.... Hopefully they will come out with a car, otherwise I will have to find a more interesting company's rumour site to waste my time on...
Yawn.... Apple's vision and everyone else's.... Hopefully they will come out with a car, otherwise I will have to find a more interesting company's rumour site to waste my time on...
Yes, then you should leave.
Seems like you are jaded and need a break.
Most of us here are excited about what Apple will do in the next 24 months.
And no that isn't everyones vision. It isn't Microsoft and Sony's vision. Because if it was their set top box (Xbox/PS4) would not be so expensive and cater to hardcore gamers.
And how do you suggest MS, and Sony make their consoles less expensive?
Apple didn't have breakthrough tech every five years since 1977...you're just remembering it wrong and being sentimental. the same complaints have been with us since the desktop computer -- "It's a toy! It's not for serious productivity!" etc...
when you read rumor sites daily, you're not gonna get many surprises.
It seems I did not make myself clear in the end. I did not say Apple had a breakthrough every five years (To me these are the Mac with GUI and Mouse, iPhone and iPod), but I was saying that maybe because Apple was - as SJ himself said - lucky enough not to have one, but more of such moments in history, we are getting higher and higher expectations. Like Phil Schiller said in an interview: Who cares about updated specs on a phone? People want new features, and "awesome" stuff (not verbatim, but along those lines).
And yes, for sure, also because of reading rumor sites it is less surprises. Interestingly, though, not higher expectations. At least, here on AI, I find most of what is being discussed upfront and what is not obviously out of line, quite close to what gets released.
And how do you suggest MS, and Sony make their consoles less expensive?
Make it less powerful and sell it for $149-$199.
Make gaming just a feature not the main event.
A $399 gaming system will never become the mainstream all-in-one media box.
Sony has been making the Playstation for over 20 yrs. What other features were there back then? That's like telling Apple to stop making their iPhones so powerful year in and year out and make it cheaper.
So, instead of pandering to all the complainers out there regarding what they believe this device is lacking, how about talking about some fun stuff?
Anyone look at the tvOS SDK and determine what (obviously, in very general terms since it's so early) is required to enable ATV support in existing iOS apps and games?
The 200MB app limit sounds very interesting (given storage limitations which I was concerned about before this thing launched), wonder how that'll work in a typical home network - seems quite an elegant solution really, TouchArcade said it's related to the App Thinning in iOS9, so this has been in the works for quite awhile, which means they really have put some thought into this whole system and how it will work.
iPlayer - can we finally expect to have an iPlayer app that will run on the ATV?!??!?!?! :-) Very excited about this possibility.
Anxious to have others dig more into the tvOS SDK.
What about the A8 chip, I thought I read somewhere it's a dual core - how is this different, do we know anything else about it? Any logical assumptions we can make about it, given it's new home in a device that is plugged in and isn't so worried about overheating?
RAM? Any guesses? Not so we can give the spec whores some fodder, but to understand what this device is capable of, especially since the iPad Pro may have been given a healthy serving of RAM, maybe this one too got a bit more than a sip?
Edit: Just noticed on Apple's developer site, there is 2GB RAM in the device.
I'm well pleased, I've been waiting for this device for some time, been an avid ATV fan (pre-ordered the gen 1 when it was first announced), hacked both versions (well, for obvious reasons), but I love the device and I'm eager to see the apps that the clever developer community will build for this, and I have to admit, the games are what I'm looking forward to playing on this device. Don't care about the graphics not being as good as latest gen games consoles, don't care you have to buy another controller, just want to be able to play some of the great iOS games (and new ones not yet out) on the device without having to turn on another console and wait for it to boot and load.
Exhausted with all the whinging, would really like to focus on what it does have, what it might have and how that will manifest in use. Anyone else out there have similar interests?
Sony has been making the Playstation for over 20 yrs. What other features were there back then? That's like telling Apple to stop making their iPhones so powerful year in and year out and make it cheaper.
The market is different for a set top box. The mainstream will not pay $400 or even $300 for a set top box.
A set top box is about entertainment. The smartphone is necessary to live in modern society. big difference.
The price range to hit mainstream is about $99-$199. At that price range it is possible to capture 30-40% of TV sets.
Sure they do. Do you really think it's only hardcore gamers buying consoles? No it is not. Just go to any retailer that sells them during the holidays, and you'll see plenty of mainstream people buying them.
So, instead of pandering to all the complainers out there regarding what they believe this device is lacking, how about talking about some fun stuff?
RAM? Any guesses?
2GB. That's not a guess either.
By the way, I thought it interesting that app downloads aren't persistent. Each time they're run they have to be freshly downloaded. Perhaps there's little advantage to the 64GB version then?
Most of us here are excited about what Apple will do in the next 24 months.
And no that isn't everyones vision. It isn't Microsoft and Sony's vision. Because if it was their set top box (Xbox/PS4) would not be so expensive and cater to hardcore gamers.
What you state as Apple's vision is not a vision, its just a junior product manager's road map. Think bigger. Much bigger. And beyond Apple's current products.
?Virtual Reality definitely is a big thing (currently badly implemented, so Apple's sweet spot), imagine sitting at home but it feels like you are at the office? Truly virtual meetings, while you are at your beach house. I expect something form Apple here when the time is right.
Virtual 3D concerts on a giant screen where the perspective moves for you as you move around the house.
Everyone says 3D printing will be big, but I do not expect something from Apple in this space at some point in the future (but who knows, I certainly know nothing).
Ultimately, I do not know what Apple should launch. And that is how it should be. Otherwise they are no better than us forum hackers.
I thing that in the end, the Apple leadership team after the iPod was wealthy but there was hunger to buy a proper yacht so they risked it for the iPhone. Now they are all filthy rich, so they have become administrators rather than revolutionary risk takes. it is normal.
Comments
he's not wrong. you provide no compelling argument to the contrary.
[B]Siri Deep Links into Content -- especially Video content.[/B]
During the ATV demos Apple showed using Siri to:
[LIST=1]
[*] Locate all of all currently accessible [B][I] sources [/I][/B] of a specific Movie or TV show (iTunes, Netflix, HBO, etc.)
[*] Locate videos featuring certain stars, combination of stars, directors, plots, editors, designers, etc.
[*] Locate the exact position within a video where a certain scene/star appears
[*]
[/LIST]
This all involves metadata for Siri to search. 1 and 2, likely, could be gleaned from sources like IMDB ... but, where does 3 come from?
Does Apple generate this metadata?
Do the [B][I] sources [/I][/B] generate the metadata, and provide it to Apple?
Is someone creating metadata for each chapter or frame of the video?
How? Manually? Machine-Assisted? Software algorithms.
Will this metadata include things like Scripts? Shot angles? People? Cameras? Effects? Dialogs? ...
Will this metadata-generation capability be made available to Pros (FCPX) and Consumers (iMovie)?
Siri: Show me that scene from that movie where Bogie says: [I] Here's looking at you kid![/I]
Currently, on the Sony site there are a total of sixty-eight (68) 4K movies available. That's not a very big library. It won't always be this way, but for now, not including 4K only hurts those who want very much to claim hurt so they can attack Apple in the typical juvenile style that children on the internets do. No 4K is simply not an issue. Let's move on, ffs.
no, it doesn't increase the cost of Apple TV. I already have an hdmi recover and have for for years. if one has outdated equipment that isn't apple's deal. it's like saying having to wire your cabin with electricity increases the cost of a Mac. er, no...
http://4k.com/movies/
Note they've only listed a sample of content. Other shows and movies are being added on a regular basis.
Surface is itself a clone of iPad. Apple already had keyboard patents.
Imagining things is easy. implementing them well is the crafty part.
stock price is proof of something? hahahaha. get real. delighting customers and making money is boss. the only boss. read up:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/11/28/maximizing-shareholder-value-the-dumbest-idea-in-the-world/
Apple didn't have breakthrough tech every five years since 1977...you're just remembering it wrong and being sentimental. the same complaints have been with us since the desktop computer -- "It's a toy! It's not for serious productivity!" etc...
when you read rumor sites daily, you're not gonna get many surprises.
you misunderstood. he's not wrong that "4K is still just too niche for Apple." and simply responding with "cool story bro" provides zero compelling argument to the contrary.
He may not be wrong that he read it somewhere. He may be wrong about its accuracy tho. Ultraflix alone claims to have more than 500 hours of "4K" content available. This is a good source for those wanting to catch up on what's out there.
http://4k.com/movies/
Note they've only listed a sample of content. Other shows and movies are being added on a regular basis.
The article you link states, "They give you 500+ hours of 4K viewing but most of the material that's available is not exactly exciting." They mean things like "Muse Live in Rome," "Usher OMG Tour London," "An assortment of other programming in sports, automotive, nature, travel, short films, trailers and Cablelabs 4K demo categories. They also offer moving 4K murals." Another site characterises Ultraflix's library as, "Aside from plenty of IMAX, the selection is weak. It's mostly stuff you've never heard of, albeit 500 hours' worth."
It's not my intention to slam the services out there, nor to imply that there will never be content, but as of today, as of right now extending to 1 or 2 years out, the library of 4K content out there just isn't very much. This seems so obvious I don't understand the confusion. There's simply not enough to fill the iTunes store, and Apple would never add a feature unless the user's first port of call (the iTunes store) had adequate content for that user to enjoy the feature for more than a few hours before running out of content, in typical Apple user experience excellence.
Before 1080p we got word that Apple had sent out notices to all the content providers that they could begin submitting their 1080p content, this was before the ATV supported 1080p, before the store and iTunes itself supported the content. The first news we'll have of 4K support will be rumours of content providers beginning to submit 4K content into the store, at that point we'll have an expectation of an upcoming 4K support in the ATV. Until then, the 8 people out there who have 4K sets, who have adequate bandwidth to download/stream 4K content, who would buy Apple, who would watch content in the existing library, they have a real gripe, but their gripe even today lasts validly only a few hours, then their argument runs out of steam, when the library has been exhausted. ;-)
IMO, Apple's ultimate vision is to create a box that dominates your living room.
And the new AppleTV is a great first step to that. But I think ultimately Apple will bring out its own television set with AppleTV hardware built in.
Just picture it and how easy it would be:
1. Buy AppleTV set
2. Place on TV stand
3. Plug in power
4. Done
With that single device you can watch live TV, Movies, TV shows, listen to music, look at photos, family videos, play games, home automation, home security, make FaceTime calls, shop, ect. I think that is the ultimate vision of the AppleTV. Ultimate simplicity.
Yawn.... Apple's vision and everyone else's.... Hopefully they will come out with a car, otherwise I will have to find a more interesting company's rumour site to waste my time on...
And how do you suggest MS, and Sony make their consoles less expensive?
Apple didn't have breakthrough tech every five years since 1977...you're just remembering it wrong and being sentimental. the same complaints have been with us since the desktop computer -- "It's a toy! It's not for serious productivity!" etc...
when you read rumor sites daily, you're not gonna get many surprises.
It seems I did not make myself clear in the end. I did not say Apple had a breakthrough every five years (To me these are the Mac with GUI and Mouse, iPhone and iPod), but I was saying that maybe because Apple was - as SJ himself said - lucky enough not to have one, but more of such moments in history, we are getting higher and higher expectations. Like Phil Schiller said in an interview: Who cares about updated specs on a phone? People want new features, and "awesome" stuff (not verbatim, but along those lines).
And yes, for sure, also because of reading rumor sites it is less surprises. Interestingly, though, not higher expectations. At least, here on AI, I find most of what is being discussed upfront and what is not obviously out of line, quite close to what gets released.
This anti-4K argument is almost word for word the same as when 1080p was a nascent technology.
Today we have many phones capable of shooting 4K video, now including the iPhone.
Today we have many displays capable of displaying 4K content including the iMac, many different televisions, and even Sony's new flagship phone.
4K is the future. It's just getting started.
Fast forward 10 years and it will be 8K and the same exact arguments will happen all over again.
Well, except for that 1K, 2K is something where there is an objective benefit as the resolution surpasses the resolution of the human eye?
I can see the benefit in 4K, 8K etc recording, as it gives more room for editing.
But 4K+ on a phone, tablet, TV? What for? So you can zoom into your favorite picture areas?
I understand the tech exists, and that it can be done, and it is already being done, albeit in limited quantities.
But what is the overall benefit? Honest question.
And, no, I do not see this as the 640K RAM discussion, because the simple delimiter is the human eye.
Not everyone has an iPhone or iPad.
How much 4k content is out there. How many 4k tvs have been sold?
In all honesty, 4k is just overkill for a TV.
Sony has been making the Playstation for over 20 yrs. What other features were there back then? That's like telling Apple to stop making their iPhones so powerful year in and year out and make it cheaper.
So, instead of pandering to all the complainers out there regarding what they believe this device is lacking, how about talking about some fun stuff?
Anyone look at the tvOS SDK and determine what (obviously, in very general terms since it's so early) is required to enable ATV support in existing iOS apps and games?
The 200MB app limit sounds very interesting (given storage limitations which I was concerned about before this thing launched), wonder how that'll work in a typical home network - seems quite an elegant solution really, TouchArcade said it's related to the App Thinning in iOS9, so this has been in the works for quite awhile, which means they really have put some thought into this whole system and how it will work.
iPlayer - can we finally expect to have an iPlayer app that will run on the ATV?!??!?!?! :-) Very excited about this possibility.
Anxious to have others dig more into the tvOS SDK.
What about the A8 chip, I thought I read somewhere it's a dual core - how is this different, do we know anything else about it? Any logical assumptions we can make about it, given it's new home in a device that is plugged in and isn't so worried about overheating?
RAM? Any guesses? Not so we can give the spec whores some fodder, but to understand what this device is capable of, especially since the iPad Pro may have been given a healthy serving of RAM, maybe this one too got a bit more than a sip?
Edit: Just noticed on Apple's developer site, there is 2GB RAM in the device.
I'm well pleased, I've been waiting for this device for some time, been an avid ATV fan (pre-ordered the gen 1 when it was first announced), hacked both versions (well, for obvious reasons), but I love the device and I'm eager to see the apps that the clever developer community will build for this, and I have to admit, the games are what I'm looking forward to playing on this device. Don't care about the graphics not being as good as latest gen games consoles, don't care you have to buy another controller, just want to be able to play some of the great iOS games (and new ones not yet out) on the device without having to turn on another console and wait for it to boot and load.
Exhausted with all the whinging, would really like to focus on what it does have, what it might have and how that will manifest in use. Anyone else out there have similar interests?
Sure they do. Do you really think it's only hardcore gamers buying consoles? No it is not. Just go to any retailer that sells them during the holidays, and you'll see plenty of mainstream people buying them.
By the way, I thought it interesting that app downloads aren't persistent. Each time they're run they have to be freshly downloaded. Perhaps there's little advantage to the 64GB version then?
EDIT: If you missed the link to the programmer guide for the Apple TV apps and have any interest here it is.
https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/tvos/documentation/General/Conceptual/AppleTV_PG/OnDemandResources.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40015241-CH9-SW1
Yes, then you should leave.
Seems like you are jaded and need a break.
Most of us here are excited about what Apple will do in the next 24 months.
And no that isn't everyones vision. It isn't Microsoft and Sony's vision. Because if it was their set top box (Xbox/PS4) would not be so expensive and cater to hardcore gamers.
What you state as Apple's vision is not a vision, its just a junior product manager's road map. Think bigger. Much bigger. And beyond Apple's current products.
?Virtual Reality definitely is a big thing (currently badly implemented, so Apple's sweet spot), imagine sitting at home but it feels like you are at the office? Truly virtual meetings, while you are at your beach house. I expect something form Apple here when the time is right.
Virtual 3D concerts on a giant screen where the perspective moves for you as you move around the house.
Everyone says 3D printing will be big, but I do not expect something from Apple in this space at some point in the future (but who knows, I certainly know nothing).
Ultimately, I do not know what Apple should launch. And that is how it should be. Otherwise they are no better than us forum hackers.
I thing that in the end, the Apple leadership team after the iPod was wealthy but there was hunger to buy a proper yacht so they risked it for the iPhone. Now they are all filthy rich, so they have become administrators rather than revolutionary risk takes. it is normal.