New iPhones' 3D Touch a complicated effort that took 'multi, multi, multi' years, Apple says

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  • Reply 21 of 80
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 1,118member
    The current features of 3D touch are pretty lackluster, but I am excited to see how this evolves.
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  • Reply 22 of 80
    rogifan wrote: »
    I just saw a Bloomberg video about the new iPad and Om Malik said 3D Touch and Pencil (which he kept referring to as a stylus) are signs of a mediocre Apple going backwards. Thankfully Ben Bajarin and Horace Dediu were also on the panel as they both disagreed. Honestly I don't get the negativity. Both the Pencil and and 3D Touch look awesome and all the early hands on reviews I've read suggest they work really well. They definitely seem like things Apple nailed in terms of execution.

    No one really watches Bloomberg TV much anymore, and Om Malik is way past his sell-by date. (Didn't he have some type of website that suddenly and mysteriously just vanished?).
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  • Reply 23 of 80
    cash907 wrote: »
    Good, because the implementation of Force Touch on the Apple Watch is confusing and not user friendly. I haven't tried WatchOS 2 yet, though, so possibly they have addressed the issues I have with it.

    Perhaps that is because it does not allow for the types of pop-up menus that the iPhone does. I agree that the Force Touch on the Watch lacks parallelism across apps. It's sort of like you have to know what FT does in each instance beforehand, prior to actually using it.
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  • Reply 24 of 80
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Misa View Post





    I think what everyone missed about Steve Jobs reasoning about larger (or smaller) tablets and stylus is that "the device shouldn't REQUIRE a stylus to do anything." Hence it's optional. Anyone who has used a resistive touch screen can tell you how much styluses suck (eg old PDA's, DS/DSi/3DS/Wii U,) because of how imprecise they are, and if you lise the stylus, you have to use your fingers anyway, resulting in making the device much harder to use.



    So in terms of how and why the stylus, it's for drawing/art. It's not a 99 cent pokey-stick like what the game consoles and old PDA's have. This is what Artists have been begging Apple to do for quite a while. How well it will work will depend on Adobe putting a full version of Photoshop/Illustrator on the iPad Pro, and software like Clip Studio Paint (AKA Manga Studio) being made available on the device. Right now, your only option is paying highway-robbery prices for a Cintiq (monitor only) or Cintiq companion (tablet), and alternatives have been extremely lackluster, few and far between.



    As for sizes.... the mini is likely too small and not meant to do this. A stylus is usable on anything 9" or larger since the smallest Wacom tablet is roughly that.

    I agree with you.  But not matter how much I try explaining that to others, they still don't get it. So, I give up & say f**k it.

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  • Reply 25 of 80
    jason98 wrote: »
    Was it really worth it (multi years) if long touch is an alternative you could use on existing hardware?

    nope, long touch ain't the same thing. this is light touch, normal touch, and deep touch.

    but your criticism of something you've never used is entertaining.
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  • Reply 26 of 80
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    tyler82 wrote: »
    The current features of 3D touch are pretty lackluster, but I am excited to see how this evolves.

    Christina Warren at Mashable disagrees with you.

    http://t.co/TGAa9zGS9K
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  • Reply 27 of 80
    macvicta wrote: »

    A stylus with a phone?  Why?  How on earth does it make web browsing a dream?

    I guess it does for folks whose fingers are the same size as their toes.
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  • Reply 28 of 80
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Misa View Post





    I think what everyone missed about Steve Jobs reasoning about larger (or smaller) tablets and stylus is that "the device shouldn't REQUIRE a stylus to do anything." Hence it's optional. Anyone who has used a resistive touch screen can tell you how much styluses suck (eg old PDA's, DS/DSi/3DS/Wii U,) because of how imprecise they are, and if you lise the stylus, you have to use your fingers anyway, resulting in making the device much harder to use.



    So in terms of how and why the stylus, it's for drawing/art. It's not a 99 cent pokey-stick like what the game consoles and old PDA's have. This is what Artists have been begging Apple to do for quite a while. How well it will work will depend on Adobe putting a full version of Photoshop/Illustrator on the iPad Pro, and software like Clip Studio Paint (AKA Manga Studio) being made available on the device. Right now, your only option is paying highway-robbery prices for a Cintiq (monitor only) or Cintiq companion (tablet), and alternatives have been extremely lackluster, few and far between.



    As for sizes.... the mini is likely too small and not meant to do this. A stylus is usable on anything 9" or larger since the smallest Wacom tablet is roughly that.



    I'm glad to see Adobe throwing its hat into the iPad Pro ring with new apps.

     

    I also think the Apple Pencil along with that software ruler I saw it being used with, might very well be superior to Adobe's physical pen/ruler combo.

     

    The iPad Pro may also be seen by Adobe to be a more viable mobile platform than the Surface, despite their apparent partnership with MS. So, with the power of the A9X processor and its successors Adobe may end up developing more and better apps for it. Even though I don't draw or sketch, as such, I've wanted a pen/pencil-type input for a long time to do various things like retouching or shading or "roughing up" something. I'd love to be able to do that on an iPad Pro and then switch back to my Mac.

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  • Reply 29 of 80
    rogifan wrote: »
    I just saw a Bloomberg video about the new iPad and Om Malik said 3D Touch and Pencil (which he kept referring to as a stylus) are signs of a mediocre Apple going backwards. Thankfully Ben Bajarin and Horace Dediu were also on the panel as they both disagreed. Honestly I don't get the negativity. Both the Pencil and and 3D Touch look awesome and all the early hands on reviews I've read suggest they work really well. They definitely seem like things Apple nailed in terms of execution.

    You're listening to a joke like Om Malik? Seriously? Stop listening to people who have never worked for these innovative companies. Today marks a major loss of product sales for several of Apple's competitors and at least a handful of 3rd party hardware developers.

    Wacom is effed. Apple will release a second generation Pencil that will work with more of its product lines making inroads into other companies ideas that will eventually hope to be bought out by other larger conglomerations.

    Intel is effed as the writing is on the wall.

    The Apple TV will be a huge success.

    iOS 9/OS X 10.11 and accompanying hardware are just picking up steam to take more and more from the traditional PC world.

    But worry that a ass hat like Om denigrates a product that makes Adobe's stylus obsolete and overpriced.
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  • Reply 30 of 80
    matrix07matrix07 Posts: 1,993member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MAJANI View Post

     

     they make web browsing and navigation a dream. 


     

    My web browsing and navigation on my iPhone is like a dream already, and I don't even have to concern about stylus.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    I guess it does for folks whose fingers are the same size as their toes.



    Ah... I see.

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  • Reply 31 of 80

    Quote:


    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    I guess it does for folks whose fingers are the same size as their toes.

     

    Seeing as you've resorted to an almost ad homonym to combat me, I'm guessing you've run out of arguments, but I would like to state that this makes about as much sense as saying that a fountain pen is only good for people with stubby fingers when everyone else uses a marker pen. Different tool, different job. What does length of finger/stylus have to do anything anything? Do you have a concept of the diameter of your fingers versus that of a pen tip?

     

    It's not about being able to reach the phone from a few more inches away, it's about being accurate to almost the pixel. Touchscreens can only calculate the centroid of a touch, which on very fine work can be difficult or inaccurate with a finger.

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  • Reply 32 of 80
    matrix07matrix07 Posts: 1,993member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    I'm listening to the ATP live podcast right now and the cynicism from the team, especially Marco Arment is over the top. Marco thinks the new ?Watch color options are a sign the product is failing and Apple is doing this to try and juice sales. 

     

    I agree with him somewhat on this. I think the new gold color on Sport are cheapening the Edition. And why another color for iPhone? If Rose Gold is the thing then just replace generic gold and have a simpler inventory. We all want Apple that's simple and focused.

     

    Note: Arment is a fan of the Watch, in case you didn't know that.

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  • Reply 33 of 80
    majani wrote: »

    Seeing as you've resorted to an almost ad homonym to combat me, I'm guessing you've run out of arguments, but I would like to state that this makes about as much sense as saying that a fountain pen is only good for people with stubby fingers when everyone else uses a marker pen. Different tool, different job. What does length of finger/stylus have to do anything anything? Do you have a concept of the diameter of your fingers versus that of a pen tip?

    It's not about being able to reach the phone from a few more inches away, it's about being accurate to almost the pixel. Touchscreens can only calculate the centroid of a touch, which on very fine work can be difficult or inaccurate with a finger.

    Relax.

    You're the one that used to the word 'fluid' to describe the use of a stylus over a finger for WEB BROWSING. Really? A stylus is more fluid than a finger when it comes to touch? And for web browsing? That's not even a serious comment.

    'Accurate almost to the pixel' and 'very fine work'? When browsing? What kind of web browsing do you do that requires the specificity of one pixel? Name one.

    Aside: What is an 'ad homonym' (sic)?
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  • Reply 34 of 80
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    You're listening to a joke like Om Malik? Seriously? Stop listening to people who have never worked for these innovative companies. Today marks a major loss of product sales for several of Apple's competitors and at least a handful of 3rd party hardware developers.

    Wacom is effed. Apple will release a second generation Pencil that will work with more of its product lines making inroads into other companies ideas that will eventually hope to be bought out by other larger conglomerations.

    Intel is effed as the writing is on the wall.

    The Apple TV will be a huge success.

    iOS 9/OS X 10.11 and accompanying hardware are just picking up steam to take more and more from the traditional PC world.

    But worry that a ass hat like Om denigrates a product that makes Adobe's stylus obsolete and overpriced.

    The worst thing is he invoked Steve Jobs as if Steve would be unhappy with the direction Apple is going. I guess he forgot what Steve told Tim before he died.
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  • Reply 35 of 80
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Relax.



    You're the one that used to the word 'fluid' to describe the use of a stylus over a finger for WEB BROWSING. Really? A stylus is more fluid than a finger when it comes to touch? And for web browsing? That's not even a serious comment.



    'Accurate almost to the pixel' and 'very fine work'? When browsing? What kind of web browsing do you do that requires the specificity of one pixel? Name one.



    What 'ad homonym' (sic)?

     

    Ever navigated an ftp site? How about a website without any mobile version that's link-heavy? What about any website with mouse-ever features? All of these, in my eyes, have their usability improved with a stylus. Don't get me wrong, if the site is properly designed for a mobile device it's fine without, but the option I do like. The iPhone has a fantastically accurate screen and it's a shame to waste it frankly.

     

    As for the ad homonym, I was referring to the one where you insinuated short fingers rather than actually combating the argument.

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  • Reply 36 of 80
    majani wrote: »

    Ever navigated an ftp site? How about a website without any mobile version that's link-heavy? What about any website with mouse-ever features? All of these, in my eyes, have their usability improved with a stylus. Don't get me wrong, if the site is properly designed for a mobile device it's fine without, but the option I do like. The iPhone has a fantastically accurate screen and it's a shame to waste it frankly.

    As for the ad homonym, I was referring to the one where you insinuated short fingers rather than actually combating the argument.

    Ever heard of pinch-to-zoom?

    Also, the phrase you want -- for future reference -- is ad hominem.
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  • Reply 37 of 80
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Ever heard of pinch-to-zoom?



    Also, the phrase you want -- for future reference -- is ad hominem.

    pinching and zoom and then clicking is a more complicated action than just clicking which a stylus would afford.

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  • Reply 38 of 80
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Ever heard of pinch-to-zoom?



    Also, the phrase you want -- for future reference -- is ad hominem.

     

    Rofl. Ok, you got me there.

     

    But is pinch-to-zoom then tapping the correct link - sometimes followed by a magnifying glass to see what you were really tapping - is that more fluid that a single tap? The iPhone's got a wonderfully accurate screen and I feel a stylus could take more advantage of it in certain situations than just a finger would.

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  • Reply 39 of 80
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,057member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    OK somebody help me out here. The tech press raved about the Microsoft Surface and it's pressure sensitive stylus capabilities. Now Apple releases one for the iPad and it's the butt of jokes and something Steve Jobs would have hated. I know in many cases it's just trolling but come on, there's a big difference between needing a stylus to navigate the OS and using a stylus for precision writing and drawing.



    Many dumbness out there don't understand the difference between the two. 

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  • Reply 40 of 80
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,179member

    Wacom is effed. Apple will release a second generation Pencil that will work with more of its product lines making inroads into other companies ideas that will eventually hope to be bought out by other larger conglomerations.

    I almost bought a Wacom tablet a couple weeks ago for my photoshop stuff. I hesitated and decided to wait to see what Apple does.

    If that iPad Pro can function like one, I'm in.

    That AppleTV is next. Been waiting to upgrade my 2nd-gen unit for ages. Glad I waited!

    Bring on the new iMac!
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