I'm listening to the ATP live podcast right now and the cynicism from the team, especially Marco Arment is over the top. Marco thinks the new ?Watch color options are a sign the product is failing and Apple is doing this to try and juice sales. He thinks the new iPad Pro is a confused product that's too big. Every comment from him is whine whine whine. Thankfully John Siracusa is a bit more optimistic. But damn it's annoying when someone pisses all over a product they haven't spent one second with.
Oh one tidbit as I was typing this...Casey Liss says he's heard the iPad Pro ships with 4GB RAM. If true that's awesome.
For an Apple developer, Arment can sure be a crybaby. He's managed to cause steam to come out of my ears more than once with his careless negative talk before.
Because these things are said by either morons, or intellectually dishonest trolls, who don't fucking understand the difference between Jobs criticizing the fact that styluses were REQUIRED for input at the time, and an optional, additional accessory that is not required for ANYTHING, beside what you would do on a Wacom tablet.
Did Jobs specifically differentiate between stylus required vs. stylus optional in any quoted material, or are people just reinterpreting his words through hindsight after seeing today's announcements?
If you following AI and Apple you should get by now why they come up with bigger iPad, stylus etc?! Apple is going into businesses market and wants to shake similar way they did with consumer market. iPad Pro, stylus and keyboard is essential part of very productive and mobile tools for many business, plus on top of that Apple has been working with IBM for reinventing applications for business, wola, looks simple to me. That's way Phil mentioned that iPad Pro will be more powerful then 80% of shipped PC. So keep reading AI, use a bit of brains and you should be well informed with Apple.
Did Jobs specifically differentiate between stylus required vs. stylus optional in any quoted material, or are people just reinterpreting his words through hindsight after seeing today's announcements?
No, people are just using simple contextual logic.
Don't make me laugh.. they haven't even got a price for it yet... and it looks far less accurate than Apple's offering.
Knuckle Touch is a technology that can aparantly tell the difference between a knuckle on the screen and a finger. I've not used it, I have no idea how accurate it is. Huawei's force touch feature is basically the same as Apples. However, I'm curious how you have an idea of the sensitivity of either device without knowing the specific details of each screen or having even ever used the devices? On what are you making the assumption?
Knuckle Touch is a technology that can aparantly tell the difference between a knuckle on the screen and a finger. I've not used it, I have no idea how accurate it is. Huawei's force touch feature is basically the same as Apples. However, I'm curious how you have an idea of the sensitivity of either device without knowing the specific details of each screen or having even ever used the devices? On what are you making the assumption?
Hmm.
Perhaps the assumption of Apple's superior force touch is fair speculation based on past history? I love it when people calmly state something is "basically the same", in this case because of the nomenclature, without really understanding how the differences actually impact the result, which always seems to be better with Apple's implementation.
Android people live for this, in the context of "Apple copied Android, again", not acknowledging, of course, that the implementations that Apple has are generally better.
Perhaps the assumption of Apple's superior force touch is fair speculation based on past history? I love it when people calmly state something is "basically the same", in this case because of the nomenclature, without really understanding how the differences actually impact the result, which always seems to be better with Apple's implementation.
Android people live for this, in the context of "Apple copied Android, again", not acknowledging, of course, that the implementations that Apple has are generally better.
From an objective point of view, Apple's implementation of most technologies is usually far better than their android counterparts. They've got an in-house OS tailor suited to running on in-house designed hardware, so that always damn well better be the case. There's very few cases where I believe it to not be the case, but most of them are preference and I can hardly argue subjective opinion as gospel.
The main caveat of iOS is of the main draws of Android: The customization factor, but this is equally a turnoff as it is an attraction. Don't like a feature, UI element or whatever? Remove it. Replace it, do what you want with it. The whole OS is designed around it. Replaceable keyboards were a start for iOS, but I'd love to see some more expanded functionality - replaceable app launches, widgets, filesystem navigation, support for expandable storage. I'm surprised widgets haven't been introduced yet, that's a big one.
You're listening to a joke like Om Malik? Seriously? Stop listening to people who have never worked for these innovative companies. Today marks a major loss of product sales for several of Apple's competitors and at least a handful of 3rd party hardware developers.
Wacom is effed. Apple will release a second generation Pencil that will work with more of its product lines making inroads into other companies ideas that will eventually hope to be bought out by other larger conglomerations.
I agree that Wacom is fucked. But they cannot release a new Pencil for compatibility with older screens - the whole screen's touch resolution must be upgraded completely to get the precision supplied by the Pencil on the new iPad Pro.
My guess is that the new touch technology is why they haven't included 3D Touch yet, and that they're working on bringing Pencil-compatibility to the next iPad Air.
This is a non-movable screen with a taptic engine giving feedback across touch and two levels of pressing, while BlackBerry's was a screen that was clickable and moved in its entirety.
Did Jobs specifically differentiate between stylus required vs. stylus optional in any quoted material, or are people just reinterpreting his words through hindsight after seeing today's announcements?
Quote is
“handwriting [is] probably the slowest input method ever invented. It was doomed to failure.” Jobs shied away from stylus-based hardware because the competition was doing it. “If you need a stylus, you’ve already failed,” Jobs said.
?So its an attack on having to use the stylus for primary input, including handwriting.
By needing a stylus he was attacking it as an inout method ( including the Newton) and as a method of control. Window mobile was largely stylus based with resistive ( not capacitive) screens where you had to press the screen with a stylus to register a hit, or click. When Jobs makes that quote it is still the only effort by MS.
Did Jobs specifically differentiate between stylus required vs. stylus optional in any quoted material, or are people just reinterpreting his words through hindsight after seeing today's announcements?
You do know Apple has stylus patents going back to 2008. Unless people at Apple were working on that without Steve Jobs knowing about it...
And even if Steve meant stylus in any form who cares. He wasn't always right. If this Apple Pencil worked on my Air 2 I'd be ordering one in a heartbeat.
From an objective point of view, Apple's implementation of most technologies is usually far better than their android counterparts. They've got an in-house OS tailor suited to running on in-house designed hardware, so that always damn well better be the case. There's very few cases where I believe it to not be the case, but most of them are preference and I can hardly argue subjective opinion as gospel.
The main caveat of iOS is of the main draws of Android: The customization factor, but this is equally a turnoff as it is an attraction. Don't like a feature, UI element or whatever? Remove it. Replace it, do what you want with it. The whole OS is designed around it. Replaceable keyboards were a start for iOS, but I'd love to see some more expanded functionality - replaceable app launches, widgets, filesystem navigation, support for expandable storage. I'm surprised widgets haven't been introduced yet, that's a big one.
I don't have a problem with you being an Android user, but if you really think about it, all those OEM customizations and all those thousands of different models are because each OEM is attempting to differentiate itself from the other OEM's, and users that like this will suffer for that to be able to create their own customizations. That is always going to be the limitation of Android OS. One wonders where Samsung would be today were it to have developed and Implemented Tizen before Android became commoditized. (BTW, I received a email wrt to a response you made to a comment of mine some time ago, but I couldn't find it on the particular AI thread. Suffice it to say, I disagree that Xiaomi is the primary reason for Samsung's financial debacle. It's not entirely due to Apple's iPhone success; some of it is due to Samsung misfires, but it's easy to correlate Samsung's financial collapse with loss of sales and margins trying to compete in the premium space with Apple. That data isn't in dispute).
iOS users for the most part, are focused on getting the job done, or frankly, just want to be in Apple's ecosystem for any number of rational or irrational reasons. Android users obviously have a different set of requirements.
Was it really worth it (multi years) if long touch is an alternative you could use on existing hardware?
How do you do the preview function Apple showed using long touch? Not sure you can, as there's no way to hold the state of preview with the option to go back (releasing the pressure in Apple's implementation) or go forward (adding a bit of pressure to bring you all the way into interacting with the content). How is this middle (preview) state accomplished with long touch?
For an Apple developer, Arment can sure be a crybaby. He's managed to cause steam to come out of my ears more than once with his careless negative talk before.
I don't think he's completely wrong re: Apple's software quality but the whiny voice gets annoying after a while. I don't know how anyone could watch yesterday's event and not be impressed. I'm sick of all these jaded techies who constantly seem to be negative and cynical.
Seeing as you've resorted to an almost ad homonym to combat me, I'm guessing you've run out of arguments, but I would like to state that this makes about as much sense as saying that a fountain pen is only good for people with stubby fingers when everyone else uses a marker pen. Different tool, different job. What does length of finger/stylus have to do anything anything? Do you have a concept of the diameter of your fingers versus that of a pen tip?
It's not about being able to reach the phone from a few more inches away, it's about being accurate to almost the pixel. Touchscreens can only calculate the centroid of a touch, which on very fine work can be difficult or inaccurate with a finger.
Comments
For an Apple developer, Arment can sure be a crybaby. He's managed to cause steam to come out of my ears more than once with his careless negative talk before.
Because these things are said by either morons, or intellectually dishonest trolls, who don't fucking understand the difference between Jobs criticizing the fact that styluses were REQUIRED for input at the time, and an optional, additional accessory that is not required for ANYTHING, beside what you would do on a Wacom tablet.
Did Jobs specifically differentiate between stylus required vs. stylus optional in any quoted material, or are people just reinterpreting his words through hindsight after seeing today's announcements?
After the competition gets their hands on the phones, they'll have it copied in multi, multi, multi months.
Actually they had copied it before it was even announced... Or was it just that Apple was late to the party again.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/2/9244015/huawei-mate-s-force-touch-availability-price
So keep reading AI, use a bit of brains and you should be well informed with Apple.
No, people are just using simple contextual logic.
Actually they had copied it before it was even announced... Or was it just that Apple was late to the party again.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/2/9244015/huawei-mate-s-force-touch-availability-price
What? Their "Knuckle Touch" ???
Don't make me laugh.. they haven't even got a price for it yet... and it looks far less accurate than Apple's offering.
What? Their "Knuckle Touch" ???
Don't make me laugh.. they haven't even got a price for it yet... and it looks far less accurate than Apple's offering.
Knuckle Touch is a technology that can aparantly tell the difference between a knuckle on the screen and a finger. I've not used it, I have no idea how accurate it is. Huawei's force touch feature is basically the same as Apples. However, I'm curious how you have an idea of the sensitivity of either device without knowing the specific details of each screen or having even ever used the devices? On what are you making the assumption?
Ever heard of pinch-to-zoom?
Also, the phrase you want -- for future reference -- is ad hominem.
You beat me to it.
He might have been a DS fondler since his youth; that would explain the stylus love.
Knuckle Touch is a technology that can aparantly tell the difference between a knuckle on the screen and a finger. I've not used it, I have no idea how accurate it is. Huawei's force touch feature is basically the same as Apples. However, I'm curious how you have an idea of the sensitivity of either device without knowing the specific details of each screen or having even ever used the devices? On what are you making the assumption?
Hmm.
Perhaps the assumption of Apple's superior force touch is fair speculation based on past history? I love it when people calmly state something is "basically the same", in this case because of the nomenclature, without really understanding how the differences actually impact the result, which always seems to be better with Apple's implementation.
Android people live for this, in the context of "Apple copied Android, again", not acknowledging, of course, that the implementations that Apple has are generally better.
Hmm.
Perhaps the assumption of Apple's superior force touch is fair speculation based on past history? I love it when people calmly state something is "basically the same", in this case because of the nomenclature, without really understanding how the differences actually impact the result, which always seems to be better with Apple's implementation.
Android people live for this, in the context of "Apple copied Android, again", not acknowledging, of course, that the implementations that Apple has are generally better.
From an objective point of view, Apple's implementation of most technologies is usually far better than their android counterparts. They've got an in-house OS tailor suited to running on in-house designed hardware, so that always damn well better be the case. There's very few cases where I believe it to not be the case, but most of them are preference and I can hardly argue subjective opinion as gospel.
The main caveat of iOS is of the main draws of Android: The customization factor, but this is equally a turnoff as it is an attraction. Don't like a feature, UI element or whatever? Remove it. Replace it, do what you want with it. The whole OS is designed around it. Replaceable keyboards were a start for iOS, but I'd love to see some more expanded functionality - replaceable app launches, widgets, filesystem navigation, support for expandable storage. I'm surprised widgets haven't been introduced yet, that's a big one.
I cringe to point this out, but 3D Touch sounds remarkably similar to the SurePress http://global.blackberry.com/en/devices/specifications/communication/surepress-touch-screen.html feature in the ill faited BlackBerry Storm
I agree that Wacom is fucked. But they cannot release a new Pencil for compatibility with older screens - the whole screen's touch resolution must be upgraded completely to get the precision supplied by the Pencil on the new iPad Pro.
My guess is that the new touch technology is why they haven't included 3D Touch yet, and that they're working on bringing Pencil-compatibility to the next iPad Air.
This is a non-movable screen with a taptic engine giving feedback across touch and two levels of pressing, while BlackBerry's was a screen that was clickable and moved in its entirety.
Not sure I'd consider that "remarkably similar".
Did Jobs specifically differentiate between stylus required vs. stylus optional in any quoted material, or are people just reinterpreting his words through hindsight after seeing today's announcements?
Quote is
“handwriting [is] probably the slowest input method ever invented. It was doomed to failure.” Jobs shied away from stylus-based hardware because the competition was doing it. “If you need a stylus, you’ve already failed,” Jobs said.
?So its an attack on having to use the stylus for primary input, including handwriting.
By needing a stylus he was attacking it as an inout method ( including the Newton) and as a method of control. Window mobile was largely stylus based with resistive ( not capacitive) screens where you had to press the screen with a stylus to register a hit, or click. When Jobs makes that quote it is still the only effort by MS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile
Multi-touch is still the primary input in the iPad pro, and the stylus is for artists. Hence sold separately.
I cringe to point this out, but 3D Touch sounds remarkably similar to the SurePress http://global.blackberry.com/en/devices/specifications/communication/surepress-touch-screen.html feature in the ill faited BlackBerry Storm
No it's not. Read better.
You do know Apple has stylus patents going back to 2008. Unless people at Apple were working on that without Steve Jobs knowing about it...
And even if Steve meant stylus in any form who cares. He wasn't always right. If this Apple Pencil worked on my Air 2 I'd be ordering one in a heartbeat.
From an objective point of view, Apple's implementation of most technologies is usually far better than their android counterparts. They've got an in-house OS tailor suited to running on in-house designed hardware, so that always damn well better be the case. There's very few cases where I believe it to not be the case, but most of them are preference and I can hardly argue subjective opinion as gospel.
The main caveat of iOS is of the main draws of Android: The customization factor, but this is equally a turnoff as it is an attraction. Don't like a feature, UI element or whatever? Remove it. Replace it, do what you want with it. The whole OS is designed around it. Replaceable keyboards were a start for iOS, but I'd love to see some more expanded functionality - replaceable app launches, widgets, filesystem navigation, support for expandable storage. I'm surprised widgets haven't been introduced yet, that's a big one.
I don't have a problem with you being an Android user, but if you really think about it, all those OEM customizations and all those thousands of different models are because each OEM is attempting to differentiate itself from the other OEM's, and users that like this will suffer for that to be able to create their own customizations. That is always going to be the limitation of Android OS. One wonders where Samsung would be today were it to have developed and Implemented Tizen before Android became commoditized. (BTW, I received a email wrt to a response you made to a comment of mine some time ago, but I couldn't find it on the particular AI thread. Suffice it to say, I disagree that Xiaomi is the primary reason for Samsung's financial debacle. It's not entirely due to Apple's iPhone success; some of it is due to Samsung misfires, but it's easy to correlate Samsung's financial collapse with loss of sales and margins trying to compete in the premium space with Apple. That data isn't in dispute).
iOS users for the most part, are focused on getting the job done, or frankly, just want to be in Apple's ecosystem for any number of rational or irrational reasons. Android users obviously have a different set of requirements.
How do you do the preview function Apple showed using long touch? Not sure you can, as there's no way to hold the state of preview with the option to go back (releasing the pressure in Apple's implementation) or go forward (adding a bit of pressure to bring you all the way into interacting with the content). How is this middle (preview) state accomplished with long touch?
I don't think he's completely wrong re: Apple's software quality but the whiny voice gets annoying after a while. I don't know how anyone could watch yesterday's event and not be impressed. I'm sick of all these jaded techies who constantly seem to be negative and cynical.
Good to know web browsing is very fine work.