Steve Jobs left Apple on his own, wasn't forced out, Wozniak says

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  • Reply 61 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post





    Everything I've read says that the Apple I was the first computer to be sold as a complete package (as far as the circuit board goes, at least — you still had to put it in a case yourself along with a few other components, but it was a lot more complete than what had existed at the time), instead of as hobbyist kits that you had to build yourself. Prior to this, computers were thought of as too geeky to reach a wide audience. Woz tried to pitch the idea to HP, and they didn't see the value in it, so he and Jobs did it on their own.



    The Apple II, of course, shouldn't be discounted either, as it played a huge role in bringing personal computers into the mainstream. Woz designed many of the hardware and software components of it as well.

     

    Actually, that is not true. Apple I was heavily based on Altair 8800, which is widely recognized as the machine that started the PC revolution in 1974. At the time Apple I was less capable, and was also considered a hobbyist machine while the Altair 8800 was featured on magazine covers and was there for pre-orders. Ofcourse, with Apple II things really took a different turn.

     

    So, while the team of Woz and Jobs can be credited with building 'a good personal computer' and making it wildly successful, I don't think it is enough to say he/they 'invented' it.

  • Reply 62 of 142
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iamnemani View Post

     

     

    Actually, that is not true. Apple I was heavily based on Altair 8800, which is widely recognized as the machine that started the PC revolution in 1974. At the time Apple I was less capable, and was also considered a hobbyist machine while the Altair 8800 was featured on magazine covers and was there for pre-orders. Ofcourse, with Apple II things really took a different turn.

     

    So, while the team of Woz and Jobs can be credited with building 'a good personal computer' and making it wildly successful, I don't think it is enough to say he/they 'invented' it.


    I'd say the difference between the altair and the Apple I is larger than the difference between the Apple I and the Apple II.

    The altair had a few switches and a few leds, that's it. No keyboard, no screen, no firmware, no bootloader, nothting

     

    And of course, Jobs hasn't invented the GUI either, he has 'just' seen the potential of the Xerox invention and his crew improved it.

    MacsAlways
  • Reply 63 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post





    Apple II was their mainstream, mass market success, but the Apple I was a pretty significant advancement.

     

    Yes Apple I was good, but heavily inspired from Altair 8800 and less capable. Altair 8800 is recognized as the machine that started the PC revolution, and it established several de-facto standards for PCs like the Bus that was used and the programming language as basic. Apple I was significant for apple, not as much for the PC industry I believe. Apple II is where they really kicked off and made it a big market.

  • Reply 64 of 142
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member

    You can be skilled and still be a moron (Hitler was a total asshole but still historically significant!). Most specialists are morons. He seems like one of those people who had a high degree of specialisation but was absolutely clueless about the rest of reality.
    What comes out of his mouth nowadays is the sort of tripe I would expect from a dimwitted Fandroid. He should stick to his 1's and 0's and give public speaking a miss IMO.

    Strangest Hitler analogy on the Internet.

    "And you, sir, are worse than Hitler." - The Simpsons


    And why all the Woz hate? Without the Apple I/II, there would be no Apple or iOS devices. We'd be stuck in a DOS or Windows 3.x world!
  • Reply 65 of 142
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sirdir View Post

    If they had let him continue at Apple as he wanted, Apple would have ceased to exist in the 80ies.

     

    Well, we'll never know, but I sort of doubt it.

  • Reply 66 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    Strangest Hitler analogy on the Internet.

     


    Agreed. Then, I know people with similar mindset as Steve Jobs and there are parallels. Social flaws, drivenness, stubbornness, stamina, narcissism... not for the same goals, thanks god.

     

     


     
    And why all the Woz hate? Without the Apple I/II, there would be no Apple or iOS devices. We'd be stuck in a DOS or Windows 3.x world!

    Don't understand that either... We can be happy they both met.

  • Reply 67 of 142
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sirdir View Post

     

    I'd say the difference between the altair and the Apple I is larger than the difference between the Apple I and the Apple II.

    The altair had a few switches and a few leds, that's it. No keyboard, no screen.


    Neither did the Apple I. Apple I was just a board. To make it a computer the user needed to add a case, a tv set, a keyboard, power supply etc. What made Apple I distinctive was the fact that you could connect it to a tv set instead of requiring a special monitor.

     

    Edit/Update: Altair 8800 established many PC standards like the bus that was used and the programming language BASIC etc. I was responding to a post that said Woz was the 'inventor of PC'. I feel he is significant in its evolution, but can't be name the inventor. 

    MacsAlways
  • Reply 68 of 142
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iamnemani View Post

     

    Neither did the Apple I. Apple I was just a board. To make it a computer the user needed to add a case, a tv set, a keyboard, power supply etc. What made Apple I distinctive was the fact that you could connect it to a tv set instead of requiring a special monitor.




    True, but it did have the interace. The Altair didn't. What computer did, back then? I was too young back then, but as far as I know there were only terminals with a CRT back then. And as far as I remember Woz' first intention was to build a terminal, not a computer.

  • Reply 69 of 142
    sirdir wrote: »
    OK, if you believe so. Surely another engineering genius would have stumbled over Steve showed him the computer he created and Steve would have sold it for him. Very probable.

    As I said, it needed them both. And of course Apple wouldn't exist if Steve hadn't come back in ~97. But it wouldn't exist if he hadn't left in '85 either.
    iamnemani wrote: »
    Yes Apple I was good, but heavily inspired from Altair 8800 and less capable. Altair 8800 is recognized as the machine that started the PC revolution, and it established several de-facto standards for PCs like the Bus that was used and the programming language as basic. Apple I was significant for apple, not as much for the PC industry I believe. Apple II is where they really kicked off and made it a big market.

    So kind of like Blackberry (first Smartphone) and iPhone, right?

    Also... what you're saying is that Windows would've evolved to what it was and became, without any influence from Apple at all? *Just by emulating the Atari*

    * * Edited to add.
  • Reply 70 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

     

    Becoming Steve Jobs made it pretty clear that Steve himself approached the board and told them his plans to start a new company with a few "low-level" Apple employees. 

    Of course we cannot take the book as Gospel, but I see no reason to doubt that.

     

    Steve saying that he was fired from the Company in his Stanford commencement speech is probably just him being succinct about the circumstances. Being marginalised in the Company you co-founded really seems like the Board was trying its best to get him out, but without actually dirtying its own hands.


     

    Yes, there is a lot of different ways of "firing" people.

     

    Making him irrelevent inside his company, for a guy like Jobs, is basically the same as being fired. They knew it. That's why they did it.

    This is often done to "troublesome" employees. Give them a desk somewhere, or curtail their power so much they are defanged

     

    That's done by cowards who wants to put the onus on the person they're punishing to leave on their own, instead of directly firing them.

     

    They knew he wouldn't and couldn't stand for that; so, for them, playing innocent now, is just in poor taste.

    But, hey, Woz has been in poor tast for 30 years.

     

    It is done so often in companies to get people out that Woz is being desingenious, or self-serving, about the whole thing.

    MacsAlways
  • Reply 71 of 142
    jonljonl Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RobertWalter View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonl View Post



    Wozniak has been a pile of randomly firing neurons for the last 30+ years. He's a court jester whose ancient accomplishments somehow keep him relevant. I don't understand it.




    Jealous?



    No. The correct inference to draw is that I'm embarrassed for him, for this and his other appearances in the press, which wouldn't pay him lip service if he hadn't done something important 40 years ago. I don't think he's been relevant for over 30 years, and I'm tired of hearing from him. I feel the same way when it's reported he's standing in line for an iPhone. Who in his right mind cares?

    MacsAlways
  • Reply 72 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sirdir View Post

     

     

    He turned into a bigger dick than young Jobs, a jovial, smiling "dick", since then.

    Jobs progressed while he seamingly stalled in the 1970s.

  • Reply 73 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by iamnemani View Post

     

     

    Yes Apple I was good, but heavily inspired from Altair 8800 and less capable. Altair 8800 is recognized as the machine that started the PC revolution, and it established several de-facto standards for PCs like the Bus that was used and the programming language as basic. Apple I was significant for apple, not as much for the PC industry I believe. Apple II is where they really kicked off and made it a big market.


     

     

    Apple I connected to something everyone had, a TV, which made it relatively affordable. That's is what a PC is. Something a normal person could actually buy.

  • Reply 74 of 142



    Dunno. I still think Woz is more honest and he also has been more loyal to his colleagues (i.E. Jobs not giving Apple stock to his formerly most important co-workers). For this, together with making Apple possible (not alone, but still indispensable) he has earned enough respect for one life, I'd say. If Woz is saying the iPhone should be more open I can totally understand his point of view... There are things a 'techie' can do better with an android or ubuntu phone than with an iPhone. Question is just why a journalist writing for the main stream customer asks for his opinion. 

  • Reply 75 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post







    So kind of like Blackberry (first Smartphone) and iPhone, right?



    Also... what you're saying is that Windows would've evolved to what it was and became, without any influence from Apple at all? *Just by emulating the Atari*



    * * Edited to add.

     

    I think you should read the thread. At no time did I say woz's influence was not important or crucial. I took exception to woz being called the 'inventor of PC'. There were many people involved in that, along with woz and jobs.

  • Reply 76 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by iamnemani View Post

     

     

    I think you should read the thread. At no time did I say woz's influence was not important or crucial. I took exception to woz being called the 'inventor of PC'. There were many people involved in that, along with woz and jobs.




    Every invention is basen on all inventions that have been made before. The Apple I is often called the first PC. So the Altair etc. seem not to be seen as PCs… Of course they were personal, so in the end it's a question of definitions I guess. 

  • Reply 77 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sirdir View Post

     



    Dunno. I still think Woz is more honest and he also has been more loyal to his colleagues (i.E. Jobs not giving Apple stock to his formerly most important co-workers). 


    Companies give stock to people to induce future performance, not just reward past performance.

    MacsAlways
  • Reply 78 of 142

    Did he get to bring his red stapler?

  • Reply 79 of 142
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sirdir View Post

     



    Every invention is basen on all inventions that have been made before. The Apple I is often called the first PC. So the Altair etc. seem not to be seen as PCs… Of course they were personal, so in the end it's a question of definitions I guess. 


     

    Well, that would be Apple II then. Apple I did not really sell that many (something 50 or 100) at all, while the Altair 8800 had a couple of thousand orders in just a few days. It was an unexpected/unforeseen success which opened the possibility for other companies like apple. 

     

    Apple II on the other hand would be the iPhone to the blackberries before, but the key difference is that Commodore PET, Radio Shack's TRS-80 and Apple II were all similar in many ways and released pretty much at the same time. But Apple II was the one that succeeded.

  • Reply 80 of 142
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,012member
    sirdir wrote: »

    Dunno. I still think Woz is more honest and he also has been more loyal to his colleagues (i.E. Jobs not giving Apple stock to his formerly most important co-workers). For this, together with making Apple possible (not alone, but still indispensable) he has earned enough respect for one life, I'd say. If Woz is saying the iPhone should be more open I can totally understand his point of view... There are things a 'techie' can do better with an android or ubuntu phone than with an iPhone. Question is just why a journalist writing for the main stream customer asks for his opinion. 

    Then both of you completely misunderstand why Apple is so wildly successful and has such high custsat scores...the techie is not a market compared to who Apple is focused on, and there is no benefit trying to cater to such an obtuse segment.

    And I'm technical.
    MacsAlways
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