Google unveils new Nexus phones, Chromecasts, Pixel C tablet & more

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  • Reply 121 of 158
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,031member
    fallenjt wrote: »
    1) The problem is using it; the sequence of actions with other fingers while it's on left hand or on a surface. For iPhone, it's just a touch with any finger from right hand that has fingerprints stored when the phone is in the left hand or on a surface, and if there's a bad reading, you know it right away from the screen. With 6P, if your left index print has issue, try to use right fingers when you hold the phone on the left hand or lay it down on a surface...yeah, the sequence of actions is ridiculous: with 6P on left hand, turn it over, scan fingerprint from right hand, turn it back to check if the reading is good and the same action as on a surface OR pass the phone to right hand and use right index only, then pass the phone back to left hand for use...Absolutely brilliant, huh?
    Silly premature argument IMO against something you haven't yet seen in practice. Just as with the iPhone if you're holding the Nexus in one hand and use the other to authenticate you can of course see immediately if it worked. I'm guessing you think you'll have to turn it over and look at the back to tell where you put your choice of fingers for reading? I'm fairly sure you can tell from feeling the recess, no need to look at it.

    Personally I think it will be more convenient for one-handed use (i.e. payments) if the reader is on the back which I think it the primary use case for Google fingerprint reader. If it's laying face up on your coffee table and you have it locked requiring FP for whatever reason then the scanner on the front is more convenient. Depending on the use they each probably have benefits but I don't think one is clearly and convincingly better overall than the other.

    Wait till they're out in user's hands to see if there's complaints about where Google chose to put the reader on this particular phone. You'll know.
  • Reply 122 of 158
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,031member
    For anyone with questions about the design and feature choices Google made with this years Nexus phones there's a very good Q&A with the Google Nexus Team here:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3mzrl9/hi_im_hiroshi_lockheimer_here_at_google_with_the/
  • Reply 123 of 158
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fallenjt View Post

     

    1) No one cares about 5X, I meant 6P, the flagship phone.


     

    ??? I need to see some supporting data here

  • Reply 124 of 158
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,462member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

     

    ??? I need to see some supporting data here


    If it is typical of the Android market, which I expect it will be, the "buzz" will only last until the next "premium device" announcement.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Silly premature argument IMO against something you haven't yet seen in practice. Just as with the iPhone if you're holding the Nexus in one hand and use the other to authenticate you can of course see immediately if it worked. I'm guessing you think you'll have to turn it over and look at the back to tell where you put your choice of fingers for reading? I'm fairly sure you can tell from feeling the recess, no need to look at it.



    Personally I think it will be more convenient for one-handed use (i.e. payments) if the reader is on the back which I think it the primary use case for Google fingerprint reader. If it's laying face up on your coffee table and you have it locked requiring FP for whatever reason then the scanner on the front is more convenient. Depending on the use they each probably have benefits but I don't think one is clearly and convincingly better overall than the other.



    Wait till they're out in user's hands to see if there's complaints about where Google chose to put the reader on this particular phone. You'll know.

    Your supposition about the ease of one-handed use is entirely B.S.

     

    Have you ever even used Apple Pay? I know you haven't used Google Pay on either of those devices unless you were at the reveal.

     

    Why would you even make that supposition?

     

    You set up your kiosk here like you are invited to shill Google products and services. I don't know of any Apple users that do the same on Google or Android sites.

     

    It's creepy.

  • Reply 125 of 158
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,031member
    tmay wrote: »
    If it is typical of the Android market, which I expect it will be, the "buzz" will only last until the next "premium device" announcement.
    Your supposition about the ease of one-handed use is entirely B.S.

    Have you ever even used Apple Pay? I know you haven't used Google Pay on either of those devices unless you were at the reveal.

    Why would you even make that supposition?

    You set up your kiosk here like you are invited to shill Google products and services. I don't know of any Apple users that do the same on Google or Android sites.

    It's creepy.
    :???:

    Well that came out of nowhere. Isn't this a perfectly proper thread to discuss Google devices? Gosh by golly, yes it is. :rolleyes: It was originally only about Google devices for that matter. No idea who dragged the iPhone into it.

    Perhaps the wrong side of the bed for you this morning?

    EDIT: Something else I would like to mention as to FP placement. The side of the device might actually be ideal for a lot of folks. Who doesn't hold their phone by it's sides and they're always accessible whether face up or face down. Just thinking out-loud.
  • Reply 126 of 158
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,462member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    image



    Well that came out of nowhere. Isn't this a perfectly proper thread to discuss Google devices? Gosh by golly, yes it is. image It was originally only about Google devices for that matter. No idea who dragged the iPhone into it.



    Perhaps the wrong side of the bed for you this morning?



    EDIT: Something else I would like to mention as to FP placement. The side of the device might actually be ideal for a lot of folks. Who doesn't hold their phone by it's sides and they're always accessible whether face up or face down. Just thinking out-loud.

    My gripe is that you weren't curious enough to actually try Apple Pay; presumably you know somebody that has an iPhone 6/6 Plus.

     

    Worried about cooties?  :???:

     

    Here's how I see this through my engineering background:

     

    edit;

     

    Apple likely did lots of studies before the first iPhone arrived about placement of its Home Button, and the engineers likely knew that they would be incorporating some sort of fingerprint sensor into that button. Following that, Apple might engineer a solution into the screen, and at that time, they will probably deprecate the button. Either way, Apple has staked out that position for fingerprint scans for upcoming generations, all of them on the front in roughly the same position.

     

    Google maybe wants to create the same thing with the sensor on the back, but they need to establish that as an Android standard. Having comparisons between the two would be useful, but the reality is that the OEM's aren't necessarily on board with that location; differentiation if for no other reason.

  • Reply 127 of 158
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,031member
    tmay wrote: »
    My gripe is that you weren't curious enough to actually try Apple Pay; presumably you know somebody that has an iPhone 6/6 Plus.

    Worried about cooties?  :???:  
    Nor was any iPhone user (AFAICT) in the thread curious and patient enough to try Android Pay on the new Nexus models before commenting how terrible the FPR placement is. You seem to have no problem with those suppositions but take issue with someone advocating a wait-and-see before passing final judgment? :rolleyes:

    Nope, your complaint sounds more like something personal instead of rational. That's not generally something you do is it?
  • Reply 128 of 158
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

     

    If it is typical of the Android market, which I expect it will be, the "buzz" will only last until the next "premium device" announcement.


     

    These are Nexus devices. They are in their own segment, and the 5x and 6p will both be involved in conversations on Android until next Fall.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

     

    Your supposition about the ease of one-handed use is entirely B.S.

     

    Have you ever even used Apple Pay? I know you haven't used Google Pay on either of those devices unless you were at the reveal.

     

    Why would you even make that supposition?

     


     

    Are you deformed? I don't understand how you can't see that an FP sensor on the back of the phone is ergonomically convenient in one-handed use. There are advantages to having the sensor on the front of a phone too, but this rejection of anything that Apple didn't do is juvenile.

  • Reply 129 of 158
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,462member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Nor was any iPhone user (AFAICT) in the thread curious and patient enough to try Android Pay on the new Nexus models before commenting how terrible the FPR placement is. You seem to have no problem with those suppositions but take issue with someone advocating a wait-and-see before passing final judgment? image



    Nope, your complaint sounds more like something personal instead of rational. That's not generally something you do is it?

    I edited my response while you posted this, so I think I have that covered.

     

    What that poster said was certainly wrong and provocative, I'll give you that.

  • Reply 130 of 158
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,462member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

     

    These are Nexus devices. They are in their own segment, and the 5x and 6p will both be involved in conversations on Android until next Fall.

     

     

    Are you deformed? I don't understand how you can't see that an FP sensor on the back of the phone is ergonomically convenient in one-handed use. There are advantages to having the sensor on the front of a phone too, but this rejection of anything that Apple didn't do is juvenile.


    I'm not rejecting this; but people stating that it is ergonomically convenient on the back that haven't tried Apple's equally ergonomically convenient front solution are just speculating.

  • Reply 131 of 158
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,031member
    tmay wrote: »
    I'm not rejecting this; but people stating that it is ergonomically convenient on the back that haven't tried Apple's equally ergonomically convenient front solution are just speculating.
    Depending on what digit is used to authenticate it may not be as convenient for payment situations as a reader on the back. There's all kinds of usage scenarios where one placement may work better for particular users than another. In any event it's a moot point if you're an iPhone user. The ideal spot is obviously one bundled with the home button for now. ;) That's not an option.
  • Reply 132 of 158
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post


    Um, it's call an Airport Express. Apple has been making them for years. 

     

    I just bought an Airport Express last night. And I disagree that would consider that instead of Chromecast Audio. Two reasons:

    1) Cost. If all I care about is streaming music, I'm not going to buy multiple $100 streamers to place around the house. If you want sync'd playback from multiple speakers, this would get expensive really fast.

    2) Aesthetics. The Chromecast Audio is actually better looking than the Airport Express which just looks like a typical Apple box or even a computer modem to the layman. The difference in aesthetics is entirely attributable to function. The Airport Express is first and foremost a router. The Chromecast Audio is designed as a streaming accessory.


    Ultimately though, I don't think it's a space Apple needs to compete in, because, bluetooth speakers seem to do a good enough job. I'm not exactly sure, how much of a market there is for a standalone streaming accessory to plug into old speakers.


    I will say though, Google may just have Apple beat with the Chromecast. With the Airport Express (I have an AE Time Capsule upstairs), the Chromecast delivers a near flawless TV like experience. My Apple TV has been lying in the corner..... Not convinced I need to go to a $150 new Apple TV when the Chromecast does everything I want a media streaming device to do for $30 (except watch Apple Keynotes and Apple Music Festivals).
  • Reply 133 of 158
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,462member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Depending on what digit is used to authenticate it may not be as convenient for payment situations as a reader on the back. There's all kinds of usage scenarios where one placement may work better for particular users than another. In any event it's a moot point if you're an iPhone user. The ideal spot is obviously one bundled with the home button for now. image That's not an option.

    I quite agree with you.

  • Reply 134 of 158
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fallenjt View Post

    6P looked very nice until I saw the camera hump and huge front top/bottom bezels which served no purpose. Why don't they just put the fingerprint button at the bottom front bezel like iPhone and bring speakers to left/right of that button. It's okay be called copicat for Touch ID rather than the stupid ImPrint in the back.

     

    You can disagree vehemently, but having used Nexus phones and iPhones, I personally agree with their decision. You don't use the button as much. So place it at the back. Ultimately, I wouldn't want to sacrifice screen space for an unlock button I don't use as often (especially with Smart Lock). The same would not apply on the iPhone because the Home button is not just a fingerprint reader....

    Having a large screen and dual front facing speakers is much more useful, in my books, than an unlock button used only a few times a day.
  • Reply 135 of 158
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

     

    I'm not rejecting this; but people stating that it is ergonomically convenient on the back that haven't tried Apple's equally ergonomically convenient front solution are just speculating.


     

    Agreed. I can see the pluses of both.

     

    Honestly, the ideal phone for me would be an iPhone running Android. I do think Apple has the best hardware in many categories. The closed ecosystem enforced by Apple's software drives me insane though.

  • Reply 136 of 158
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fallenjt View Post

    1) No one cares about 5X, I meant 6P, the flagship phone.

     

    My entire response applies equally if not more so to the 6P which has even higher screen-to-area ratio: 71% and an extra front-facing speaker (the 5X has single, 6P has double).

    The screen would have been noticeably smaller if they had to build in a "home button" and they might have had to give up a front-facing speaker. All for what? A fingerprint reader largely used for unlocking the phone, but no function beyond that for most people.... Even with payments, how many times a day do you really do that?

    And again, there's Smart Lock. Used properly, you can go a whole day unlocking your phone a handful of times.
  • Reply 137 of 158
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

    My gripe is that you weren't curious enough to actually try Apple Pay; presumably you know somebody that has an iPhone 6/6 Plus.

     

    Worried about cooties?  :???:

     

    Here's how I see this through my engineering background:

     

    edit;

     

    Apple likely did lots of studies before the first iPhone arrived about placement of its Home Button, and the engineers likely knew that they would be incorporating some sort of fingerprint sensor into that button. Following that, Apple might engineer a solution into the screen, and at that time, they will probably deprecate the button. Either way, Apple has staked out that position for fingerprint scans for upcoming generations, all of them on the front in roughly the same position.

     

    Google maybe wants to create the same thing with the sensor on the back, but they need to establish that as an Android standard. Having comparisons between the two would be useful, but the reality is that the OEM's aren't necessarily on board with that location; differentiation if for no other reason.

     


    Thanks for a much more reasonable and interesting post. I've loved Apple's incorporation of Touch ID into the Home button. But holding my phone, I can easily see how Google's solution would work too, because Nexus Imprint would fall exactly where my right-hand index would fall naturally. Just the same way, my thumb works on my iPhone, because it's a natural placement position. Might actually be faster, when picking up the phone! Since I won't be sliding my thumb in an arc from the side towards the Home button. Not sure, unless I try it.....

    But overall, I see less of a point for Google to put the reader in the front and take up valuable real estate. They'd be sacrificing screen size and a speaker possibly. The front works, if they could put it under the screen (at the bottom), but then the reader would have to be huge with no tacticle indicators like the dimples on the Home button and Nexus Imprint.

    As for payments, I see two possibilities. Use like Apple Pay, as in tilt the phone towards the reader with the tip touching Nexus Imprint, or go whole hog and flip the phone over. I think the latter would be exceptionally rare. And on the reddit AMA, the designers indicated that they put the NFC hardware in the hump at the top. Because of transmission through the black glass, but probably also because they want users to simply tip the phone to pay. Not as comfortable as tilting the phone towards you and using your thumb. But again, tradeoffs, how much screen real estate and sound quality are you willing to sacrifice to make unlock and payments just marginally more comfortable..... Gotta pity the engineers and designers. No matter what the result, somebody will be unhappy!

    And like you I suspect Google is doing this to get out ahead and set a standard for Android. There have been some strange places that some android devices have put fingerprint readers.
  • Reply 138 of 158
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,507member
    All an interesting debate, but unless Google changes their sales approach for Nexus, the impact of these specific devices in the market will be very limited (overall number sold = small). While Nexus & similar have been touted as Google providing a template for others to follow, has that actually occurred? Does Samsung (the only volume Android manufacturer at the higher end of CE where Nexus devices are targeted) care? Does it influence Samsung or others not directly tapped to provide HW for Nexus line?
  • Reply 139 of 158
    brucemc wrote: »
    All an interesting debate, but unless Google changes their sales approach for Nexus, the impact of these specific devices in the market will be very limited (overall number sold = small). While Nexus & similar have been touted as Google providing a template for others to follow, has that actually occurred? Does Samsung (the only volume Android manufacturer at the higher end of CE where Nexus devices are targeted) care? Does it influence Samsung or others not directly tapped to provide HW for Nexus line?

    Exactly.

    There have been quarters when over 280 million Android phones are sold.

    But how many of them are Nexus devices?

    Not many.

    And aren't there over 1,000 Android manufacturers? I don't think enough of them are following the "template" set by Google.
  • Reply 140 of 158
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,031member
    Exactly.

    There have been quarters when over 280 million Android phones are sold.

    But how many of them are Nexus devices?

    Not many.

    And aren't there over 1,000 Android manufacturers? I don't think enough of them are following the "template" set by Google.
    The sample hardware builds are followed fairly closely AFAIK, especially early in the cycle. New OS features need compatible supporting hardware in many cases. This year it looks like new low-power sensors and fingerprint readers are being pushed with the OS.

    Even if not a single OEM followed the general Nexus hardware configurations Google would still need a handset built to their specifications with hardware that showed the latest Android version in it's best light. It's tough to create/revise an OS without a concept device to run it on for testing. Therefor a Nexus model will probably always be introduced alongside a new Google Android version. It's really a necessity. That Google then makes those special builds available to the public is smart business, getting back some of the investment they had to make in them anyway.
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