It's not so much that the PC OEM folks make crap products. They're just not pushing the hardware forward in any meaningful way.
In what way are they not pushing things forward and Microsoft is? PC OEMs had 2-in-1 machines before Microsoft did. Like I said, the Dell XPS 13 was being drooled over by the tech press now it's as if no good Windows hardware existed prior to Surface.
Yes, I think MS is probably the only real serious competition for Apple on the HW and SW front. Android is becoming the lowest common denominator, consumer low end platform and not a serious high end offering though they keep trying. There are enough nerds and Apple haters to keep it going for a while...
MS seems to be slowly getting its collective head out of its arse.
Hopefully they start focussing on the customer and the customer experience with a laser eye.
I tend to agree. Ballmer came off as pretty fair and humble here in my opinion and didn't seem like a buffoon at all. He also gave Apple their proper accolades.
I also hope that Microsoft gives Apple some decent competition in hardware and software. Competition and choice is good for us measly consumers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
I know this may not be a popular thing to say on this site, but I tend to agree with him that, in the long run, Microsoft will likely emerge as a strong competitor on both the software and hardware front. Google also. Both companies are very capable of developing a well integrated multi-platform software ecosystem. When it comes to hardware, they will copy Apple's innovations to stay competitive.
When you are the gold standard in hardware like Apple is, copying them to a certain degree is a decent game plan.
I don't want a molecule for molecule copy, that is kind of lame. But like I said above, I hope that Microsoft gives Apple some decent competition in hardware and software. Competition and choice is good for us measly consumers.
Keeping Apple, Microsoft, Google on their toes is good for everyone.
As an aside, it would be neat to see Apples take on something like a Chrome Book for around $300. Something like an affordable, simple, non-touch screen iPad in a notebook format running a simple OS like iOS on an ARM processor. Just a thought.
And yet Harry McCraken at Time had to return two Surface Book review units because of faulty hardware. And the machine kept crashing on the WSJ folks. I hate the way everyone is throwing PC OEMs under the bus. As if they designed crap products by choice. As if you can put a premium on commodity hardware and software and get people to buy it. I think Microsoft shares most of the blame here. And what's amusing is just this spring everyone was drooling over the Dell XPS 13 and it's near bezel free display. Now the tech meme is no one other than Microsoft can do premium hardware and all the OEMs suck.
What's funny about the WSJ, the reviewer had all sorts of problems with the Surface Book, yet it was the best laptop she's ever used. Here is a quote from the article;
"But then came the times where I wanted to take off my shoe and throw it at the Surface Book. A display driver crash alert repeatedly interrupted my work, and twice the thing rebooted on its own, causing me to lose unsaved notes. (Other reviewers told me they had similar issues.) Worst of all, a Surface Pro 4 and a Surface Book I tested failed to boot up fully because of faulty solid state drives. They simply would not allow me back into Windows"
For the price bracket and size, it is a fair comparison in terms of which performs better. The customer doesn't care how that performance comes about.
Now, most Mac users are not playing hard core games on their 13" rMBP and the 15" rMBP is the more professional device for people who need OpenCL performance for drafting, graphics, etc. So in the end it is not that big of a deal for the normal customer.
Fine but then I wish Microsoft would have made that distinction rather than using an old MBP and just saying its 2x as fast. Zing Apple for not having a dGPU in the 13" rMBP but don't just say Surface Book is 2x faster when it's not in every case.
In what way are they not pushing things forward and Microsoft is? PC OEMs had 2-in-1 machines before Microsoft did. Like I said, the Dell XPS 13 was being drooled over by the tech press now it's as if no good Windows hardware existed prior to Surface.
It isn't about who does it first but who does it better. At least, from what I've been reading, MS' take on the 2-in-1 (SB) seems much better executed vs their OEMs.
What's funny about the WSJ, the reviewer had all sorts of problems with the Surface Book, yet it was the best laptop she's ever used. Here is a quote from the article;
"But then came the times where I wanted to take off my shoe and throw it at the Surface Book. A display driver crash alert repeatedly interrupted my work, and twice the thing rebooted on its own, causing me to lose unsaved notes. (Other reviewers told me they had similar issues.) Worst of all, a Surface Pro 4 and a Surface Book I tested failed to boot up fully because of faulty solid state drives. They simply would not allow me back into Windows"
All those issues and it's the best ever?
Wow. Just proves to me that the media meme was set on these products before they were even announced. They're going to push this "Apple finally has a serious challenger in hardware" meme hard.
Of course the guy that came up with "Devices & Services" strategy is going to say this. But if these new "PC Does Whaaat?" commercials are anything to go by I'm not sure I like their chances.
Wow. Just proves to me that the media meme was set on these products before they were even announced. They're going to push this "Apple finally has a serious challenger in hardware" meme hard.
(Autocorrect has a sense of humor: it just changed "Ballmer" to "Baller" LOL)
Baller was ruinously tone deaf to his own customers, removing the start menu from desktop Windows 8, only to have Windows 10 add it back (as if the start menu apps didn't signal how wrong they were).
He is also wrong if he thinks Microsoft has the hardware + software combo to go after Apple. Microsoft has to keep its Windows OS compatible with third party hardware manufacturers and BYOPCs. Apple's vertical integration from chips to UI means they can introduce features like 3D Touch or Continuity without having to coordinate with independent hardware vendors.
Nope. Imagine the snickering if Apple released a laptop like this. Everyone in the tech press would be calling it fugly. I'd be real nervous about throwing this thing in a backpack with other stuff.
Don't be judgmental to the guy. There are plenty of those never-forgets from Apple too: antenna-gate, maps-gate, bend-gate, chip-gate... to name a few /s
Big difference when it's mostly just press click-bait (*-gate) vs. a totally crap device or OS that nobody wants.
To me this isn't competition but shameless copycats. They're trying to be Apple. A real competitor would be themselves and compete with Apple.
I am a little at a loss on how the new MS Surface * stuff and Win10 is a copycat of Apple. I have personally no interest in it but MS is doing its own thing given the market parameters...
What's funny about the WSJ, the reviewer had all sorts of problems with the Surface Book, yet it was the best laptop she's ever used. Here is a quote from the article;
"But then came the times where I wanted to take off my shoe and throw it at the Surface Book. A display driver crash alert repeatedly interrupted my work, and twice the thing rebooted on its own, causing me to lose unsaved notes. (Other reviewers told me they had similar issues.) Worst of all, a Surface Pro 4 and a Surface Book I tested failed to boot up fully because of faulty solid state drives. They simply would not allow me back into Windows"
I was wondering when someone was going to do the price comparison between 15" rMBP and the SB. It's sad that MS is now the company producing underpowered and overpriced hardware...
I agree as to the point that Microsoft is the only real competition to Apple, but they are a weak second.
In the areas that Apple competes they are 3 - 5 years ahead of Microsoft, and at the level that Apple continues to innovate I do not see Microsoft bridging that gap.
There are two areas that Apple hasn't competed (enterprise desktop and servers). I see the recently entered strategic partnerships with Cisco andIBM as strong leading indicators that Apple is making a serious push into enterprise desktop market.
Productivity and cost are the by words of enterprise decision making. Until now there was no large scale examples of Apple competing against Windows in these areas. IBM's deployment of nearly 200,000 Macs changes that.
Starting in about 2 years I see rapidly expanding growth in Mac units the enterprise Once Mac share of the enterprise hits 10% (2025?) I think we will see a paradigm shift that will make MSFT irrelevant soon after.
Comments
From the guy that dismissed Apple and the iPhone in 2007. Now that the tables are turned...
Edit:
"..selling millions and millions and million of phones and Apple is selling zero."
Now Apple sells 200 million a year or so and Microsoft sells????????
In what way are they not pushing things forward and Microsoft is? PC OEMs had 2-in-1 machines before Microsoft did. Like I said, the Dell XPS 13 was being drooled over by the tech press now it's as if no good Windows hardware existed prior to Surface.
He seems more humble today...
Yes, I think MS is probably the only real serious competition for Apple on the HW and SW front. Android is becoming the lowest common denominator, consumer low end platform and not a serious high end offering though they keep trying. There are enough nerds and Apple haters to keep it going for a while...
MS seems to be slowly getting its collective head out of its arse.
Hopefully they start focussing on the customer and the customer experience with a laser eye.
I tend to agree. Ballmer came off as pretty fair and humble here in my opinion and didn't seem like a buffoon at all. He also gave Apple their proper accolades.
I also hope that Microsoft gives Apple some decent competition in hardware and software. Competition and choice is good for us measly consumers.
I know this may not be a popular thing to say on this site, but I tend to agree with him that, in the long run, Microsoft will likely emerge as a strong competitor on both the software and hardware front. Google also. Both companies are very capable of developing a well integrated multi-platform software ecosystem. When it comes to hardware, they will copy Apple's innovations to stay competitive.
When you are the gold standard in hardware like Apple is, copying them to a certain degree is a decent game plan.
I don't want a molecule for molecule copy, that is kind of lame. But like I said above, I hope that Microsoft gives Apple some decent competition in hardware and software. Competition and choice is good for us measly consumers.
Keeping Apple, Microsoft, Google on their toes is good for everyone.
As an aside, it would be neat to see Apples take on something like a Chrome Book for around $300. Something like an affordable, simple, non-touch screen iPad in a notebook format running a simple OS like iOS on an ARM processor. Just a thought.
And yet Harry McCraken at Time had to return two Surface Book review units because of faulty hardware. And the machine kept crashing on the WSJ folks. I hate the way everyone is throwing PC OEMs under the bus. As if they designed crap products by choice. As if you can put a premium on commodity hardware and software and get people to buy it. I think Microsoft shares most of the blame here. And what's amusing is just this spring everyone was drooling over the Dell XPS 13 and it's near bezel free display. Now the tech meme is no one other than Microsoft can do premium hardware and all the OEMs suck.
What's funny about the WSJ, the reviewer had all sorts of problems with the Surface Book, yet it was the best laptop she's ever used. Here is a quote from the article;
"But then came the times where I wanted to take off my shoe and throw it at the Surface Book. A display driver crash alert repeatedly interrupted my work, and twice the thing rebooted on its own, causing me to lose unsaved notes. (Other reviewers told me they had similar issues.) Worst of all, a Surface Pro 4 and a Surface Book I tested failed to boot up fully because of faulty solid state drives. They simply would not allow me back into Windows"
All those issues and it's the best ever?
Fine but then I wish Microsoft would have made that distinction rather than using an old MBP and just saying its 2x as fast. Zing Apple for not having a dGPU in the 13" rMBP but don't just say Surface Book is 2x faster when it's not in every case.
In what way are they not pushing things forward and Microsoft is? PC OEMs had 2-in-1 machines before Microsoft did. Like I said, the Dell XPS 13 was being drooled over by the tech press now it's as if no good Windows hardware existed prior to Surface.
It isn't about who does it first but who does it better. At least, from what I've been reading, MS' take on the 2-in-1 (SB) seems much better executed vs their OEMs.
Wow. Just proves to me that the media meme was set on these products before they were even announced. They're going to push this "Apple finally has a serious challenger in hardware" meme hard.
Oh god. I just read the article. And then watched the Ad. It's.... Really.... Unique.
Thanks for the laugh.
Wow. Just proves to me that the media meme was set on these products before they were even announced. They're going to push this "Apple finally has a serious challenger in hardware" meme hard.
Of course. Did you expect anything less.
Baller was ruinously tone deaf to his own customers, removing the start menu from desktop Windows 8, only to have Windows 10 add it back (as if the start menu apps didn't signal how wrong they were).
He is also wrong if he thinks Microsoft has the hardware + software combo to go after Apple. Microsoft has to keep its Windows OS compatible with third party hardware manufacturers and BYOPCs. Apple's vertical integration from chips to UI means they can introduce features like 3D Touch or Continuity without having to coordinate with independent hardware vendors.
Not bad for a $17 billion dimwit.
Never forget.
It never fails to make me was to to take strong pills on behalf of him.
Nope. Imagine the snickering if Apple released a laptop like this. Everyone in the tech press would be calling it fugly. I'd be real nervous about throwing this thing in a backpack with other stuff.
Oh god. I just read the article. And then watched the Ad. It's.... Really.... Unique.
Thanks for the laugh.
To me this isn't competition but shameless copycats. They're trying to be Apple. A real competitor would be themselves and compete with Apple.
Don't be judgmental to the guy. There are plenty of those never-forgets from Apple too: antenna-gate, maps-gate, bend-gate, chip-gate... to name a few /s
Big difference when it's mostly just press click-bait (*-gate) vs. a totally crap device or OS that nobody wants.
Microsoft and Samsung?
To me this isn't competition but shameless copycats. They're trying to be Apple. A real competitor would be themselves and compete with Apple.
I am a little at a loss on how the new MS Surface * stuff and Win10 is a copycat of Apple. I have personally no interest in it but MS is doing its own thing given the market parameters...
What's funny about the WSJ, the reviewer had all sorts of problems with the Surface Book, yet it was the best laptop she's ever used. Here is a quote from the article;
"But then came the times where I wanted to take off my shoe and throw it at the Surface Book. A display driver crash alert repeatedly interrupted my work, and twice the thing rebooted on its own, causing me to lose unsaved notes. (Other reviewers told me they had similar issues.) Worst of all, a Surface Pro 4 and a Surface Book I tested failed to boot up fully because of faulty solid state drives. They simply would not allow me back into Windows"
All those issues and it's the best ever?
Well...it is a Windows PC...
Good point. Speaking of the 15" rMBP, here's a comparison of the $2,500 15" rMBP vs a $2,700 version of the SB. Not hard to guess which one wins
https://fstoppers.com/gear/surface-book-vs-macbook-pro-15-macbook-twice-fast-93596?utm_content=buffer3ac7c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
I was wondering when someone was going to do the price comparison between 15" rMBP and the SB. It's sad that MS is now the company producing underpowered and overpriced hardware...
I agree as to the point that Microsoft is the only real competition to Apple, but they are a weak second.
In the areas that Apple competes they are 3 - 5 years ahead of Microsoft, and at the level that Apple continues to innovate I do not see Microsoft bridging that gap.
There are two areas that Apple hasn't competed (enterprise desktop and servers). I see the recently entered strategic partnerships with Cisco andIBM as strong leading indicators that Apple is making a serious push into enterprise desktop market.
Productivity and cost are the by words of enterprise decision making. Until now there was no large scale examples of Apple competing against Windows in these areas. IBM's deployment of nearly 200,000 Macs changes that.
Starting in about 2 years I see rapidly expanding growth in Mac units the enterprise Once Mac share of the enterprise hits 10% (2025?) I think we will see a paradigm shift that will make MSFT irrelevant soon after.