Then she shouldn’t bring in her purse. Problem solved.
Not for women. Perhaps you need to look at this from the PoV of someone with a menstal cycle who will be gone from their home for 14-16 hours in a day and works a 45 tube ride from their home.
This case was a foregone conclusion because of the Supreme Court's ruling in a similar matter in 2013 or 2014.
But I always enjoy the armchair lawyering that comes out after such cases are decided. This was by no means a frivolous lawsuit - as evidenced that a similar case went all the way to the Supreme Court - as there was obviously a bonafide issue to be decided. Namely, can employers impose non-compensated time on employees for specific purposes. The decision was yes. While it may seem like a great idea to wrap up your view in the anti-lawsuit and pro-Apple of "screw those employees", you might want to consider the precedent set here around that aspect of non-compensated time.
As for those who propose retribution on employees who participated in the class action, besides being blatantly illegal (not just civilly, but potentially criminally), it would be a rather immature way to run a business.
The reason for this case is because CA has its own set of labor laws which, in some instances, offer more protection for employees than Federal labor laws. CA labor laws take precedent in CA if it offers more protection that Federal laws. That's why this class action only pertain to CA Apple Store employees. So it was not a foregone conclusion, as the Supreme Court ruling was only taking into consideration the Federal FLSA. But nearly everyone knew that it was still a long shot as the last Supreme court ruling was unanimous for the employer and CA labor laws can not take away any of the protection under Federal laws. That goes for both the employees and the employers.
The issue is that Apple can impose non-compensated time on employees for purposes that benefit the employees. Apple is not required to allow employees to bring a personal bag, that requires searching, to work. It is a benefit for the employees that Apple allows for this. Therefore the time to search such bags is on the employee that chooses to bring a personal bag to work. Employees are not forced to spend the non-compensated time for security searches if they don't bring a personal bag to work. Apple would rather an employee don't bring a bag, that requires searching, to work.
No where in this ruling does it state that Apple can impose non-compensated time for purposes that Apple requires employees to do that is part of their job. Employees are protected from such requirements under the FLSA and have won many cases against employers on such matter. The time it takes to search a personal bag, that Apple does not required you to bring to work, is not part of your job, and thus non-compensatable. This wasn't just ruled on by the Supreme court in 2013, the Supreme Court have ruled on this going all the way back to 1937 with the FLSA and further clarified with the Portal to Portal Act of 1947. So far, the Supreme Court has always ruled in favor of the employers because they must use the FLSA as their guide. In order to rule otherwise, Congress would have to change the labor laws covered under the FLSA.
It doesn't take a lawyer to understand this. Any management personnels that deal with a Union and their employees and Union personnels are familiar with the FLSA and most of the important rulings that were won by employers and employees under the act. Employees seeking compensation for any time they spend in an employer's work place while off the clock goes all the way back to 1937.
You know plenty of women in large cities where driving your car is let feasible that will carry no purse and will stuff a days worth of lavatory items in their pockets to carry around all day? I really doubt that.
Bring your lavatory items in a transparent bag.... buy a months worth of supply and leave them at work, bring only what you need with you (and not your purse) when you go to the washroom.
If you brought a bag around with your here (big city) you would not only have to have a bag check at the retail store (of which there are no Apple stores here unfortunately), but every time you entered a shopping centre you have to have your bags checked and go through a magnetometer, same when entering a subway or skytrain system... bag check / magnetometer check. Take 3 trains, 3 checks.
It's disappointing to me to see so many people against the basic worker, who is the front line for the Company.
It should be up to the Company to secure their items and have cameras. If the Company wants to search employees then the employees should be compensated for that time.
To say you can't bring a bag to work is absolutely ludicrous. What if you want to pack a lunch and go work out after work? Apple wants us to eat healthy and stay active don't they?
THEN LEAVE IT IN YOUR CAR!!
What if you don't have a car?
Apple should put cameras everywhere there is product and offer employees lockers still under camera outside that area.
What do people do with their winter coats in cold climates? Is there not a place at an Apple store for a winter jacket?
Bring your lavatory items in a transparent bag.... buy a months worth of supply and leave them at work, bring only what you need with you (and not your purse) when you go to the washroom.
If you brought a bag around with your here (big city) you would not only have to have a bag check at the retail store (of which there are no Apple stores here unfortunately), but every time you entered a shopping centre you have to have your bags checked and go through a magnetometer, same when entering a subway or skytrain system... bag check / magnetometer check. Take 3 trains, 3 checks.
That's certainly the sort of thing I would do, but I'm atypical. I'd also think that you only bringing this up now means you didn't consider it originally, which tells me you hadn't really though about it from that PoV until I presented it, which tells you not likely to be that proactive in your own planning.
I think [@]cali[/@] is correct, if this hadn't been about Apple, the defense would be have been very different. The lawsuit aspect is moot, but as I said, if this was my company I would be compensating employees for anything I'm having them do while at work.
Where do you draw the line.... I mean if you believe you should pay for an extra 5 minutes for them to get in the store, then should you not also pay them to drive to work... You are taking time out of their lives to force them to spend their own time to drive to work. Then of course some people live 1.5 hours out so you will have to pay those people for their choices to live so far away. The simple answer is DON'T bring personal items to work.
Everyone brings "personal items" with them everywhere they go. Telling a woman she needs to wait 10 minutes after clocking out so some shift manager can come look in her purse with her ID, money, cards, phone, and medication, and, lavatory items is not fair.
Is a jacket with pockets bigger than many purses grounds for being made to wait half an hour before a manager can search it? Should employees show up without a winter coat for the next few months? Where is the line? Is a brown bag for lunch ok or should employees be forced to spend wages on meals at the workplace? I think searches should be done on the clock unless the items in question are not reasonable things to bring to a workplace. Unfortunately the Supreme Court has spoken out strongly on the other side.
Then they shouldn’t have been so vociferous with those pesky equality laws.
Perhaps you need to look at this from the PoV of someone with a menstrual cycle
Don’t womens’ restrooms have dispensers with such necessities?
Originally Posted by bkkcanuck
Bring your lavatory items in a transparent bag...
Oh, I wouldn’t say that. It’s a matter of discretion, after all. But a smaller container, just for them, would mean mere seconds of search and solve the problem. A container too small for any item that can be stolen would eliminate the problem entirely.
Is it just big bags, or does it also include purses? It's quite common for women to carry purses in all areas, but backpacks can also be common in certain areas where people don't have cars nearby, perhaps at NYC stores where they do take public transportation.
Fine, the judge through it out, and Apple doesn't think it should pay for keeping employees over their scheduled times, I'm not going to spend a lot of time and effort on such a minor issue where the employees can get other jobs in a country with full employment, but if this was my company, I'd add in a 5 minutes buffer, to start, so that employee bags can be checked, or perhaps even setup a break room or lockers that is detached from the store area so that their bags are not kept in an area that could lead to employee theft.
Where do you draw the line.... I mean if you believe you should pay for an extra 5 minutes for them to get in the store, then should you not also pay them to drive to work... You are taking time out of their lives to force them to spend their own time to drive to work. Then of course some people live 1.5 hours out so you will have to pay those people for their choices to live so far away. The simple answer is DON'T bring personal items to work.
A purse is a bag....
Where do you draw the line... I mean if you believe they should be queuing up and submitting to bag searches, then they should be submitting to full body back scatter scans. How about body cavity searches?
Your slippery slope is slippery indeed. No one in their right mind expects to be paid for their commute or to have a body cavity search at work.
However if you have a job that requires you to drive your personal car AFTER you have arrived at work you can very much deduct the gas, wear and tear on the mileage you put on your vehicle. It's something like $0.42 a mile these days, I am not sure I haven't looked recently. But it adds up when paying your taxes.
Where do you draw the line... I mean if you believe they should be queuing up and submitting to bag searches, then they should be submitting to full body back scatter scans. How about body cavity searches?
Your slippery slope is slippery indeed. No one in their
right mind expects to be paid for their commute or to have a body cavity search at work.
However if you have a job that requires you to drive your personal car AFTER you have arrived at work you can very much deduct the gas, wear and tear on the mileage you put on your vehicle. It's something like $0.42 a mile these days, I am not sure I haven't looked recently. But it adds up when paying your taxes.
If you work in a diamond mine, you will have a cavity search at work.....
If you work in a retail store (not new, and not specific to Apple) and the merchandise is small and the loss potential is high - then the company is more likely to institute a search. People saying, that if it was not Apple people would not be on the companies side.... but then if it was not Apple would it have been in the courts? This is not new now, not new this century, or even last.... yet all of a sudden it is now an issue.
If you work in retail in the Airport, you have to get there much earlier and go through airport security to get into work.... and you also are not remunerated for that time.
If you use your car on company business - the company does pay you mileage.... back in the bad old days you would just get a company car for that purpose.... but with tax changes, and accounting changes.... it is easier to just "require you" to own a car and then pay you for the use of your car for company business. The company is not "requiring" you to bring personal items to work.
I'm so glad Apple won this, if only to read that hilarious comment.
And to see the lawyers screwed out of a huge payout from the cut they would have received.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismY
Not for women. Perhaps you need to look at this from the PoV of someone with a menstal cycle who will be gone from their home for 14-16 hours in a day and works a 45 tube ride from their home.
From the article: "Further, no members asserted special needs scenarios when given the opportunity to do so."
This whole thing seems stupid. I could see at a large store (like Walmart) where a lot of employees could be coming/going during a shift change causing line ups for bag searches, and making those further back in line wait for an unreasonable amount of time.
But at an Apple Store? Seriously? What did they base their dollar estimates on? Every single person leaving at once, and every single one of them having a large bag/backpack that requires an extensive search?
So no purses, no winter coats, no homemade lunches, no cargo pants because they have excessive pockets, women can't menstruate unless men are allowed to treat them as chattel, and just be glad it's not a cavity search. Anything else, guys?
I wonder what the searches are like working at Apple HQ in Cupertino.
Body cavity searches for everybody!
And of course you can't menstruate at work @SolipsismY don't be ridiculous. Women are just gonna have to "hold it". Or pay for a months supplies and leave them at work where? Or overpay for a product they don't prefer from some vending machine that they hope isn't broken and out of stock in the public restroom?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkkcanuck
If you work in a diamond mine, you will have a cavity search at work.....
If you work in a retail store (not new, and not specific to Apple) and the merchandise is small and the loss potential is high - then the company is more likely to institute a search. People saying, that if it was not Apple people would not be on the companies side.... but then if it was not Apple would it have been in the courts? This is not new now, not new this century, or even last.... yet all of a sudden it is now an issue.
If you work in retail in the Airport, you have to get there much earlier and go through airport security to get into work.... and you also are not remunerated for that time.
If you use your car on company business - the company does pay you mileage.... back in the bad old days you would just get a company car for that purpose.... but with tax changes, and accounting changes.... it is easier to just "require you" to own a car and then pay you for the use of your car for company business. The company is not "requiring" you to bring personal items to work.
Equating working at an Apple retail store to a diamond mine or the airport is disingenous.
A diamond is much smaller and much more valuable. Working in a mine is also far more dangerous. Diamonds are also an extremely vile and dirty business and if I were Apple I would not want to be compared to working in a diamond mine.
Working at an airport has serious security implications.
Regardless, the workers should be compensated for their time.
Not all companies pay mileage. I have worked for a couple companies as a full time worker where it was up to me to deduct the usage of my car on my own. So I suppose its up to the company.
Everyone brings "personal items" with them everywhere they go. Telling a woman she needs to wait 10 minutes after clocking out so some shift manager can come look in her purse with her ID, money, cards, phone, and medication, and, lavatory items is not fair.
You're right it's totally unfair. She should not be taking up his time. She should be restricted from bringing it in in the first place. Not only is she complaining sge was to wait ages wasting a managers time when his job should be helping customers with REAL issues. I totally agree with you.
When the employee walks through that back door to get ready for work a GIANT sign should be displayed
ALL BAGS SUBJECT TO SEARCH SO LEAVE TGEM IN YOUR CAR!"
They do now have the Apple Watch. Those Edition models have a value about 5–10x higher than their total mass equivalent to 18ct gold*. If we compare to diamonds the Apple Watch mass is lower than diamonds of similar mass; although at that total mass of 54–69g such a large diamond would likely have a much higher value due to its rarity.**
[VIDEO]
* Apple Watch Edition models weigh between 54g, 55g, 67g, and 69g. According to Google, 18ct gold is $26.27 per gram, while 24ct gold is $35.03 per gram.
** 1 carat diamond is 0.2g, and 1ct starts at a value of $3k. That's 5 × 54g * 3,000 ? $800,000 up to around $9MM, but could be higher due to other factors.
So no purses, no winter coats, no homemade lunches, no cargo pants because they have excessive pockets, women can't menstruate unless men are allowed to treat them as chattel, and just be glad it's not a cavity search. Anything else, guys?
Yeah no baggy pants. You might steal something.
But no leggings either, waaay too sexy for the workplace. No hipster skinny jeans either, because I don't like hipsters.
All dresses or skirts shall be no less than 1" above the knee.
Equating working at an Apple retail store to a diamond mine or the airport is disingenous.
A diamond is much smaller and much more valuable. Working in a mine is also far more dangerous. Diamonds are also an extremely vile and dirty business and if I were Apple I would not want to be compared to working in a diamond mine.
A gold Apple watch is $10K+, an iPhone is close to $1K -- small items with large values.... so yes - the loses are higher than your average retailer. Similarly luxury jewelry is another high price, small sized items.... It is based on the balance of the size of the merchandise and the price of that merchandise.
If you work in Boots (outside of the pharmacy prescription area - separate security), the $10 dollar bottle of shampoo someone might pinch - not much of a threat so it is not worth the searching of people.
Apple store (like other places) have a balance between what is required of you as an employee and what they remunerate you. If you don't like the contract terms - don't work for Apple.
It seems to me Soli touched on the solution earlier up the thread. Have a locker room area where staff can leave their bags before entering the Apple Store itself. If they need any items from the bag during the day they can obviously go and get it.
If you require your employees to be on site for something that you deem a part of their workday duties, then should pay them for that time. If they are indeed waiting up to a quarter-hour just to be allowed to leave, then that should be reflected in their hours worked, and if that gets them from part-time to full-time as a result, or into overtime, that should be reflected in their benefits and pay.
That's not what the 1937 FLSA and the Portal to Portal Act of 1947 say. Your interpretation of what constitutes compensatable workday duties is not close to how the FLSA interprets it. And it was Congress that pass the FLSA in 1937 and the Supreme Court has made their rulings based on it ever since. So far, none of the labor Unions have won using your argument, since all the way back to 1937. And it's a losing argument today. In order for the Supreme Courts to rule against the employer regarding searches off the clock, Congress would have to change the labor laws in the FLSA of 1937 and the Portal to Portal Act of 1947.
With this case, Apple do not require any employees to be on site after clocking out. The employee can opt out by not bringing a bag that needs to be search to work. Apple don't require them to bring that bag. Apple allowing employees to bring a bag into the work place is a benefit for the employees. Under FLSA, the time waiting for your personal bag to be search is not part of you workday duties that Apple hired you to do. The time for the search only needs to be reasonable. If there's 30 employeeswith personal backpacks that needs to be searched, a15 minutes wait would be reasonable. That's why its a losing argument under FLSA. And even under CA labor laws that tends to be more favorable to employees. Which is what this latest ruling was based on.
It seems to me Soli touched on the solution earlier up the thread. Have a locker room area where staff can leave their bags before entering the Apple Store itself. If they need any items from the bag during the day they can obviously go and get it.
Locker rooms outside of the store cost money. Stores in Malls have doors in the front which means going through the store to get to the lockers - which would then require you to search on the way out. Malls use to have coin lockers - but I don't see many of those around anymore.
Comments
Not for women. Perhaps you need to look at this from the PoV of someone with a menstal cycle who will be gone from their home for 14-16 hours in a day and works a 45 tube ride from their home.
This case was a foregone conclusion because of the Supreme Court's ruling in a similar matter in 2013 or 2014.
But I always enjoy the armchair lawyering that comes out after such cases are decided. This was by no means a frivolous lawsuit - as evidenced that a similar case went all the way to the Supreme Court - as there was obviously a bonafide issue to be decided. Namely, can employers impose non-compensated time on employees for specific purposes. The decision was yes. While it may seem like a great idea to wrap up your view in the anti-lawsuit and pro-Apple of "screw those employees", you might want to consider the precedent set here around that aspect of non-compensated time.
As for those who propose retribution on employees who participated in the class action, besides being blatantly illegal (not just civilly, but potentially criminally), it would be a rather immature way to run a business.
The reason for this case is because CA has its own set of labor laws which, in some instances, offer more protection for employees than Federal labor laws. CA labor laws take precedent in CA if it offers more protection that Federal laws. That's why this class action only pertain to CA Apple Store employees. So it was not a foregone conclusion, as the Supreme Court ruling was only taking into consideration the Federal FLSA. But nearly everyone knew that it was still a long shot as the last Supreme court ruling was unanimous for the employer and CA labor laws can not take away any of the protection under Federal laws. That goes for both the employees and the employers.
The issue is that Apple can impose non-compensated time on employees for purposes that benefit the employees. Apple is not required to allow employees to bring a personal bag, that requires searching, to work. It is a benefit for the employees that Apple allows for this. Therefore the time to search such bags is on the employee that chooses to bring a personal bag to work. Employees are not forced to spend the non-compensated time for security searches if they don't bring a personal bag to work. Apple would rather an employee don't bring a bag, that requires searching, to work.
No where in this ruling does it state that Apple can impose non-compensated time for purposes that Apple requires employees to do that is part of their job. Employees are protected from such requirements under the FLSA and have won many cases against employers on such matter. The time it takes to search a personal bag, that Apple does not required you to bring to work, is not part of your job, and thus non-compensatable. This wasn't just ruled on by the Supreme court in 2013, the Supreme Court have ruled on this going all the way back to 1937 with the FLSA and further clarified with the Portal to Portal Act of 1947. So far, the Supreme Court has always ruled in favor of the employers because they must use the FLSA as their guide. In order to rule otherwise, Congress would have to change the labor laws covered under the FLSA.
It doesn't take a lawyer to understand this. Any management personnels that deal with a Union and their employees and Union personnels are familiar with the FLSA and most of the important rulings that were won by employers and employees under the act. Employees seeking compensation for any time they spend in an employer's work place while off the clock goes all the way back to 1937.
You know plenty of women in large cities where driving your car is let feasible that will carry no purse and will stuff a days worth of lavatory items in their pockets to carry around all day? I really doubt that.
Bring your lavatory items in a transparent bag.... buy a months worth of supply and leave them at work, bring only what you need with you (and not your purse) when you go to the washroom.
If you brought a bag around with your here (big city) you would not only have to have a bag check at the retail store (of which there are no Apple stores here unfortunately), but every time you entered a shopping centre you have to have your bags checked and go through a magnetometer, same when entering a subway or skytrain system... bag check / magnetometer check. Take 3 trains, 3 checks.
It's disappointing to me to see so many people against the basic worker, who is the front line for the Company.
It should be up to the Company to secure their items and have cameras. If the Company wants to search employees then the employees should be compensated for that time.
To say you can't bring a bag to work is absolutely ludicrous. What if you want to pack a lunch and go work out after work? Apple wants us to eat healthy and stay active don't they?
THEN LEAVE IT IN YOUR CAR!!
What if you don't have a car?
Apple should put cameras everywhere there is product and offer employees lockers still under camera outside that area.
What do people do with their winter coats in cold climates? Is there not a place at an Apple store for a winter jacket?
That's certainly the sort of thing I would do, but I'm atypical. I'd also think that you only bringing this up now means you didn't consider it originally, which tells me you hadn't really though about it from that PoV until I presented it, which tells you not likely to be that proactive in your own planning.
I think [@]cali[/@] is correct, if this hadn't been about Apple, the defense would be have been very different. The lawsuit aspect is moot, but as I said, if this was my company I would be compensating employees for anything I'm having them do while at work.
It's the employee's fault for not wanting to get hypothermia¡
Is a jacket with pockets bigger than many purses grounds for being made to wait half an hour before a manager can search it? Should employees show up without a winter coat for the next few months? Where is the line? Is a brown bag for lunch ok or should employees be forced to spend wages on meals at the workplace? I think searches should be done on the clock unless the items in question are not reasonable things to bring to a workplace. Unfortunately the Supreme Court has spoken out strongly on the other side.
Then they shouldn’t have been so vociferous with those pesky equality laws.
Don’t womens’ restrooms have dispensers with such necessities?
Oh, I wouldn’t say that. It’s a matter of discretion, after all. But a smaller container, just for them, would mean mere seconds of search and solve the problem. A container too small for any item that can be stolen would eliminate the problem entirely.
Is it just big bags, or does it also include purses? It's quite common for women to carry purses in all areas, but backpacks can also be common in certain areas where people don't have cars nearby, perhaps at NYC stores where they do take public transportation.
Fine, the judge through it out, and Apple doesn't think it should pay for keeping employees over their scheduled times, I'm not going to spend a lot of time and effort on such a minor issue where the employees can get other jobs in a country with full employment, but if this was my company, I'd add in a 5 minutes buffer, to start, so that employee bags can be checked, or perhaps even setup a break room or lockers that is detached from the store area so that their bags are not kept in an area that could lead to employee theft.
Where do you draw the line.... I mean if you believe you should pay for an extra 5 minutes for them to get in the store, then should you not also pay them to drive to work... You are taking time out of their lives to force them to spend their own time to drive to work. Then of course some people live 1.5 hours out so you will have to pay those people for their choices to live so far away. The simple answer is DON'T bring personal items to work.
A purse is a bag....
Where do you draw the line... I mean if you believe they should be queuing up and submitting to bag searches, then they should be submitting to full body back scatter scans. How about body cavity searches?
Your slippery slope is slippery indeed. No one in their right mind expects to be paid for their commute or to have a body cavity search at work.
However if you have a job that requires you to drive your personal car AFTER you have arrived at work you can very much deduct the gas, wear and tear on the mileage you put on your vehicle. It's something like $0.42 a mile these days, I am not sure I haven't looked recently. But it adds up when paying your taxes.
Where do you draw the line... I mean if you believe they should be queuing up and submitting to bag searches, then they should be submitting to full body back scatter scans. How about body cavity searches?
Your slippery slope is slippery indeed. No one in their
right mind expects to be paid for their commute or to have a body cavity search at work.
However if you have a job that requires you to drive your personal car AFTER you have arrived at work you can very much deduct the gas, wear and tear on the mileage you put on your vehicle. It's something like $0.42 a mile these days, I am not sure I haven't looked recently. But it adds up when paying your taxes.
If you work in a diamond mine, you will have a cavity search at work.....
If you work in a retail store (not new, and not specific to Apple) and the merchandise is small and the loss potential is high - then the company is more likely to institute a search. People saying, that if it was not Apple people would not be on the companies side.... but then if it was not Apple would it have been in the courts? This is not new now, not new this century, or even last.... yet all of a sudden it is now an issue.
If you work in retail in the Airport, you have to get there much earlier and go through airport security to get into work.... and you also are not remunerated for that time.
If you use your car on company business - the company does pay you mileage.... back in the bad old days you would just get a company car for that purpose.... but with tax changes, and accounting changes.... it is easier to just "require you" to own a car and then pay you for the use of your car for company business. The company is not "requiring" you to bring personal items to work.
I'm so glad Apple won this, if only to read that hilarious comment.
And to see the lawyers screwed out of a huge payout from the cut they would have received.
Not for women. Perhaps you need to look at this from the PoV of someone with a menstal cycle who will be gone from their home for 14-16 hours in a day and works a 45 tube ride from their home.
From the article: "Further, no members asserted special needs scenarios when given the opportunity to do so."
This whole thing seems stupid. I could see at a large store (like Walmart) where a lot of employees could be coming/going during a shift change causing line ups for bag searches, and making those further back in line wait for an unreasonable amount of time.
But at an Apple Store? Seriously? What did they base their dollar estimates on? Every single person leaving at once, and every single one of them having a large bag/backpack that requires an extensive search?
I wonder what the searches are like working at Apple HQ in Cupertino.
Body cavity searches for everybody!
And of course you can't menstruate at work @SolipsismY don't be ridiculous. Women are just gonna have to "hold it". Or pay for a months supplies and leave them at work where? Or overpay for a product they don't prefer from some vending machine that they hope isn't broken and out of stock in the public restroom?
If you work in a diamond mine, you will have a cavity search at work.....
If you work in a retail store (not new, and not specific to Apple) and the merchandise is small and the loss potential is high - then the company is more likely to institute a search. People saying, that if it was not Apple people would not be on the companies side.... but then if it was not Apple would it have been in the courts? This is not new now, not new this century, or even last.... yet all of a sudden it is now an issue.
If you work in retail in the Airport, you have to get there much earlier and go through airport security to get into work.... and you also are not remunerated for that time.
If you use your car on company business - the company does pay you mileage.... back in the bad old days you would just get a company car for that purpose.... but with tax changes, and accounting changes.... it is easier to just "require you" to own a car and then pay you for the use of your car for company business. The company is not "requiring" you to bring personal items to work.
Equating working at an Apple retail store to a diamond mine or the airport is disingenous.
A diamond is much smaller and much more valuable. Working in a mine is also far more dangerous. Diamonds are also an extremely vile and dirty business and if I were Apple I would not want to be compared to working in a diamond mine.
Working at an airport has serious security implications.
Regardless, the workers should be compensated for their time.
Not all companies pay mileage. I have worked for a couple companies as a full time worker where it was up to me to deduct the usage of my car on my own. So I suppose its up to the company.
You're right it's totally unfair. She should not be taking up his time. She should be restricted from bringing it in in the first place. Not only is she complaining sge was to wait ages wasting a managers time when his job should be helping customers with REAL issues. I totally agree with you.
When the employee walks through that back door to get ready for work a GIANT sign should be displayed
ALL BAGS SUBJECT TO SEARCH SO LEAVE TGEM IN YOUR CAR!"
How many people in the NYC stores drive to work?
They do now have the Apple Watch. Those Edition models have a value about 5–10x higher than their total mass equivalent to 18ct gold*. If we compare to diamonds the Apple Watch mass is lower than diamonds of similar mass; although at that total mass of 54–69g such a large diamond would likely have a much higher value due to its rarity.**
[VIDEO]
* Apple Watch Edition models weigh between 54g, 55g, 67g, and 69g. According to Google, 18ct gold is $26.27 per gram, while 24ct gold is $35.03 per gram.
** 1 carat diamond is 0.2g, and 1ct starts at a value of $3k. That's 5 × 54g * 3,000 ? $800,000 up to around $9MM, but could be higher due to other factors.
So no purses, no winter coats, no homemade lunches, no cargo pants because they have excessive pockets, women can't menstruate unless men are allowed to treat them as chattel, and just be glad it's not a cavity search. Anything else, guys?
Yeah no baggy pants. You might steal something.
But no leggings either, waaay too sexy for the workplace. No hipster skinny jeans either, because I don't like hipsters.
All dresses or skirts shall be no less than 1" above the knee.
Equating working at an Apple retail store to a diamond mine or the airport is disingenous.
A diamond is much smaller and much more valuable. Working in a mine is also far more dangerous. Diamonds are also an extremely vile and dirty business and if I were Apple I would not want to be compared to working in a diamond mine.
A gold Apple watch is $10K+, an iPhone is close to $1K -- small items with large values.... so yes - the loses are higher than your average retailer. Similarly luxury jewelry is another high price, small sized items.... It is based on the balance of the size of the merchandise and the price of that merchandise.
If you work in Boots (outside of the pharmacy prescription area - separate security), the $10 dollar bottle of shampoo someone might pinch - not much of a threat so it is not worth the searching of people.
Apple store (like other places) have a balance between what is required of you as an employee and what they remunerate you. If you don't like the contract terms - don't work for Apple.
If you require your employees to be on site for something that you deem a part of their workday duties, then should pay them for that time. If they are indeed waiting up to a quarter-hour just to be allowed to leave, then that should be reflected in their hours worked, and if that gets them from part-time to full-time as a result, or into overtime, that should be reflected in their benefits and pay.
That's not what the 1937 FLSA and the Portal to Portal Act of 1947 say. Your interpretation of what constitutes compensatable workday duties is not close to how the FLSA interprets it. And it was Congress that pass the FLSA in 1937 and the Supreme Court has made their rulings based on it ever since. So far, none of the labor Unions have won using your argument, since all the way back to 1937. And it's a losing argument today. In order for the Supreme Courts to rule against the employer regarding searches off the clock, Congress would have to change the labor laws in the FLSA of 1937 and the Portal to Portal Act of 1947.
With this case, Apple do not require any employees to be on site after clocking out. The employee can opt out by not bringing a bag that needs to be search to work. Apple don't require them to bring that bag. Apple allowing employees to bring a bag into the work place is a benefit for the employees. Under FLSA, the time waiting for your personal bag to be search is not part of you workday duties that Apple hired you to do. The time for the search only needs to be reasonable. If there's 30 employees with personal backpacks that needs to be searched, a15 minutes wait would be reasonable. That's why its a losing argument under FLSA. And even under CA labor laws that tends to be more favorable to employees. Which is what this latest ruling was based on.
It seems to me Soli touched on the solution earlier up the thread. Have a locker room area where staff can leave their bags before entering the Apple Store itself. If they need any items from the bag during the day they can obviously go and get it.
Locker rooms outside of the store cost money. Stores in Malls have doors in the front which means going through the store to get to the lockers - which would then require you to search on the way out. Malls use to have coin lockers - but I don't see many of those around anymore.