Apple's iPad Pro available to order Wednesday, delivers later this week

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  • Reply 61 of 82
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post





    This doesn't instil much confidence in me. It seems Adobe's plan with respect to the iPad Pro is the status quo. I was really hoping to hear them say they were working on bringing a full version of Photoshop to the iPad Pro. I sure hope Smith Micro is working on Manga Studio for iPad Pro. If not... yikes.



    Autodesk is showing strong interest and no doubt Pixelmatr will be there and hopefully Serif labs. Besides I'm not sure the "full version of Photoshop" would even be feasible or worthwhile. It is so bloated and full of legacy code (I'm betting that large chunks are pre millennium code) 

    I really hope they continue to develop a new application much better suited to today.

    Is manga studio really that good? I saw it several years ago and it was kinda ... Meh (I'll have to take a look at the current version) We do use Anime studio for some previz "animetrics" (basically Moving storyboards for blocking complex shots) but as a real animation package it is very limited.

  • Reply 62 of 82
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,959member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post





    This doesn't instil much confidence in me. It seems Adobe's plan with respect to the iPad Pro is the status quo. I was really hoping to hear them say they were working on bringing a full version of Photoshop to the iPad Pro. I sure hope Smith Micro is working on Manga Studio for iPad Pro. If not... yikes.

    the right thing to do would be to reimagine Photoshop for the iPad Pro. Not port Photoshop, in its current form, to the iPad Pro.

  • Reply 63 of 82
    [B]prices aren't yet available abroad...[/B]
  • Reply 64 of 82
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,261member
    Fully agreed with all the Adobe bashing ;-) They crossed a line some years ago, and I don't think they have the freedom from corporate foolishness to reverse course. If they went private, maybe...
  • Reply 65 of 82
    bsenka wrote: »
    This doesn't instil much confidence in me. It seems Adobe's plan with respect to the iPad Pro is the status quo. I was really hoping to hear them say they were working on bringing a full version of Photoshop to the iPad Pro. I sure hope Smith Micro is working on Manga Studio for iPad Pro. If not... yikes.

    I'd buy Manga Studio for iPad Pro in a heartbeat. There is so much potential for every kind of drawing program to be repurposed for iPad.
  • Reply 66 of 82
    So, is there any details? Do they go up for pre-order online at 12AM tonight/tomorrow morning? Can you order online to pick-up in store this week?
  • Reply 67 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TGR1 View Post

     

    Agreed. No way anywhere near parity, not with the $Cdn running 30% lower than the $US.


    Not even close.

     

    iPad Pro starts at $1049 (CAD) for the 32GB with Wi-Fi model and $1429 (CAD) for the Wi-Fi + Cellular 128GB model. Apple Pencil will be available for $129 (CAD) and Smart Keyboard will be available in charcoal grey for $229 (CAD). New, Apple-designed polyurethane iPad Pro Smart Covers will be available for $75 (CAD) in charcoal grey and white. New iPad Pro Silicone Cases will be available for $99 (CAD) in charcoal grey and white.

  • Reply 68 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,787member
    indyfx wrote: »

    Perhaps you will be correct, however the performance from the hands on demos videos and the couple people I have talked to (that have had a chance hands on) are encouraging. Perhaps it won't "benchmark" as well but (because of tight HW/SW coupling?) it appears that the graphics performance demonstrated (pro graphics/drawing apps (and even AutoCAD))  in the iPadPro's demoed are a match for the lightweight i7's (running windows)
    Time will tell, not long to wait now...

    I think there's a mistake in thinking that an ARM device needs to directly compete in electrical performance with an x86 device running OS X or Windows. The requirements are very different. For one, and it's something I've talked about before, is that Apple's multitasking model is very different from that of a Desktop OS. A Desktop OS makes more demands on everything because of the on all the time model for software. iOS, while doing more multitasking over the years, is still far more efficient than OS X or Windows, and even Android, in this. Since a lot of cycles aren't being sucked up by multitasking, certain criterion can't be compared properly. The same thing is true for RAM. iOS simply needs less for the same performance.

    In addition, the apps themselves have been a written for the ARM environment. That means they take advantage of the low power situation within which they're placed, whereas Desktop apps rely much more on the CPU, GPU performance levels. A long time ago, Gates said that Microsoft's job was to add features, and it was the computer manufacturers job to see that they ran fast enough. That's not a "quote" like the one about memory, that he never made. I actually read that in an interview with him.

    I look at anandtech so t sets of Apple products, and see that the tests involving physics are always fairly slow. One would think that it would be a problem. But when I look at the tests that would reflect that, I don't see it. Apple products still smoke the others. Why is that? It's because not all tests have the real world consequences that they look to have.

    Another example is the performance of the NAND, Apple has double the performance when doing sequential reads and writes. But their random reads and writes are just average. But for these devices, sequential reads and writes are far more important.

    So comparing an ARM to x86 doesn't tell us as much as we would like to think. That's because raw performance doesn't reflect the device performance in the same way, given the different OSs, and apps.
  • Reply 69 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,787member
    smbu2000 wrote: »
    None of the surface pro 4s have a discrete graphics card. The M3/i5 have the Intel HD graphics card and the i7 models have Intel Iris graphics card.

    The Surface Book is the one with the option for a discrete Nvidia graphics card and that is much more expensive.

    Oops! Sorry, I was thinking of the book. But thats still a pretty tough nut for the A9x to try to crack.
  • Reply 70 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,787member

    Where did you get your prices from? The Microsoft Store lists the base Surface Pro 4 at $899, not $799. So the iPad Pro is priced the same as the Surface Pro 4 when you also buy the Apple Pencil (stylus).

    In raw benchmarks I'm certain the iPad Pro will easily outperform the Core M Surface Pro 4 and will probably be comparable to the i5 version. It's a stretch to think it will match the i7 version. However, in usability and responsiveness I can see the iPad Pro matching the top Surface Pro 4. Even using my iPad Air 2 for general tasks is faster than my laptop and pretty close to my desktop. There's something to be said for a highly optimized and lean OS that's tightly integrated with your processor.

    I thought they would keep the pricing the same from last year. Apparently it's now starting at 128GB storage, so the price is higher. That makes the entry model an even worse deal.

    I agree about general performance. But for some tasks it slows down. For some reason, if I'm quickly scrolling down a large number of posts here, the screen goes while, and it jerks along. Something with the way the posts are done I suppose, as it doesn't seem to be quite that bad elsewhere. Still, that could be improved.

    And certain types of calculation will still need the same performance for the same result. Adobe states that the Pro will allow at least 50MB images to be edited. But I edit multi hundred MB images on my Mac Pro. I comp them too. For that, we still need more RAM and a faster SoC. An i7, with 16GB ram, will still be faster, even under Windows.
  • Reply 71 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,787member
    indyfx wrote: »

    Autodesk is showing strong interest and no doubt Pixelmatr will be there and hopefully Serif labs. Besides I'm not sure the "full version of Photoshop" would even be feasible or worthwhile. It is so bloated and full of legacy code (I'm betting that large chunks are pre millennium code) 
    I really hope they continue to develop a new [SIZE=13px]application[/SIZE][SIZE=13px] much better suited to today.[/SIZE]
    Is manga studio really that good? I saw it several years ago and it was kinda ... Meh (I'll have to take a look at the current version) We do use Anime studio for some previz "animetrics" (basically Moving storyboards for blocking complex shots) but as a real animation package it is very limited.

    Adobe almost completely rewrites PS every few years. It's large, to be sure. But bloated? That's really hard to say. The demands on Adobe from users has resulted in many more features in the software over the years. A couple are there because of my insistence. It really does help to remember that PS is not for everyone. Many people "using" PS would be much better off with Elements. If you just need RAW processing and some enhancement, Lightroom would be a better choice.
  • Reply 72 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,787member
    canukstorm wrote: »
    the right thing to do would be to reimagine Photoshop for the iPad Pro. Not port Photoshop, in its current form, to the iPad Pro.

    Right now, I think that Adobe has the right idea. The new Mix and Fix apps look pretty good, though until I get the Pro and pen they're designed to work with, I won't know just how good. Adobe is looking at the resources available in the devices they need to work with. I don't want to see them get ahead of themselves and have an app that bogs down. It took 25 years for PS to get where it is today, and I think people are rushing this too much.
  • Reply 73 of 82
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 320member

    Melgross,



    Photoshop has an estimated 10 million lines of code, you think they re-write that every few years? A programmer can only create, compile, debug and certify (on average) 10-50 lines of C per day. It would take an army to completely rewrite all of photoshop even every 10 years.

     

    I have never worked for adobe but I have (early in my career) worked for a few large developers and I can tell you even back then, it would stun you how old some of the code you come across in large applications is.

  • Reply 74 of 82
    tgr1tgr1 Posts: 33member
    Not even close.

    iPad Pro starts at $1049 (CAD) for the 32GB with Wi-Fi model and $1429 (CAD) for the Wi-Fi + Cellular 128GB model. Apple Pencil will be available for $129 (CAD) and Smart Keyboard will be available in charcoal grey for $229 (CAD). New, Apple-designed polyurethane iPad Pro Smart Covers will be available for $75 (CAD) in charcoal grey and white. New iPad Pro Silicone Cases will be available for $99 (CAD) in charcoal grey and white.

    I work in the US so I am planning to get the Pro for family in Canada. Or maybe my sister will since she lives in a state without sales tax. With that exchange and HST the final cost for a 128 GB in Canada is rather eye popping.
  • Reply 75 of 82
    Since there was no info in the article I called my local Apple Store this morning to find out if I could get a hands-on with an iPad Pro and Apple Pencil. The woman told me yes, though she sounded like she wasn't paying attention to me. I showed up at the store and a dude with wooden earrings told me there weren't any on the floor till tomorrow. "There was definitely a communication problem on one side or the other; sorry man" he said, after I said "I explicitly asked if I could get hands-on time with one". Communication failure on their end, not mine. Sigh.
  • Reply 76 of 82
    indyfx wrote: »

    Autodesk is showing strong interest and no doubt Pixelmatr will be there and hopefully Serif labs. Besides I'm not sure the "full version of Photoshop" would even be feasible or worthwhile. It is so bloated and full of legacy code (I'm betting that large chunks are pre millennium code) 
    I really hope they continue to develop a new [SIZE=13px]application[/SIZE][SIZE=13px] much better suited to today.[/SIZE]
    Is manga studio really that good? I saw it several years ago and it was kinda ... Meh (I'll have to take a look at the current version) We do use Anime studio for some previz "animetrics" (basically Moving storyboards for blocking complex shots) but as a real animation package it is very limited.

    Unless you're referring to something I'm unfamiliar with, the term is "animatic".
  • Reply 77 of 82



    You don't understand; basically Moving storyboards for blocking complex shots?

  • Reply 78 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,787member
    indyfx wrote: »
    Melgross,


    Photoshop has an estimated 10 million lines of code, you think they re-write that every few years? A programmer can only create, compile, debug and certify (on average) 10-50 lines of C per day. It would take an army to completely rewrite all of photoshop even every 10 years.

    I have never worked for adobe but I have (early in my career) worked for a few large developers and I can tell you even back then, it would stun you how old some of the code you come across in large applications is.

    I know all about adobe and PS. I beta tested if from the very beginning, until CS5, when I declined to continue because I don't use it as much these days. My company was also an adobe shop for many years.

    Of course they didn't rewrite every line of code. But as Apple has done with OS X and iOS, they rewrote PS 5 so that the program was built in a modular fashion. Every five years, or so, they would redo much of that code and reorganize it. They would, as Apple does, streamline their code base, and rewrite large swaths of it to modernize it.

    When Apple went from the 68000 to the PPC, and when they moved over the x86 and Windows, and again, when they moved over to a 64 bit code base, both on Windows and OS X, they rewrote most of that code, in one way or the other.

    Yes, it was a massive undertaking, and took years, but they did it.
  • Reply 79 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,787member
    Wow! Our new iPad Pro's just came in. Supposed to get here Monday. Hopefully, the Pencils will get here early as well.
  • Reply 80 of 82
    nceencee Posts: 836member

    I've tried EVERY Apple store from Portland Maine to New York city, and they ALL say they are out of the 128 Gold Wi-Fi Cellular models:(

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