iPad Pro reviews: great hardware, but potential is limited thanks to iOS

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  • Reply 81 of 180
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post





    But developers AREN'T a major market. Certainly not for Apple products. This is always how it's been. Maybe it's to Apple's detriment, but they've never been a development platform of the majority's preference. They're a consumer product maker and sonewhat content-creator's platform. Yes, there'd be more content creation tools with more Apple attention on developers as users, but that's a different topic.



    Not really true anymore. A lot of developers, except those programming for Windows only, use Macs. That includes the unix heads.

     

    But developers are a small subset of office staff and most office staff would need full computers, laptops etc.

  • Reply 82 of 180
    satchmo wrote: »

    Sure, I get that. But whether you optimize iOS or OS X, my point was that the form factor of an iPad Pro (with keyboard) and a MBP really isn't that different. So where's the innovation? From a form factor standpoint, we're essentially skating to where Microsoft is.

    1) Huh? What "form factor" are you expecting? It's a tablet! It kind has a particular form factor. And, NO, it's very different from a MBP, which is why I'm going to continue to both buy a MBP and not buy an iPad as my main computing device, but most people would fall into the opposite category.

    2) So you've moved the argument from "it's just a big iPhone" to "it's just bad MBP"?
  • Reply 83 of 180
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,764member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

     



    Sure, I get that. But whether you optimize iOS or OS X, my point was that the form factor of an iPad Pro (with keyboard) and a MBP really isn't that different. So where's the innovation? From a form factor standpoint, we're essentially skating to where Microsoft is.




    That's a completely useless assertion, though. 

     

    A chopstick is essentially the same thing as a pencil, from a form factor standpoint. 

  • Reply 84 of 180
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    I believe you are. Apple has decided what the angle should be and it's the one being promoted by Mr. Cook and Mr. Cue. Who better to control the message? Just my opinion. Yours of course may be that Apple doesn't know what the message should be and marketing hasn't yet been given the game plan.

     

    Cook's actual words:

     

    Quote:

    Yes, the iPad Pro is a replacement for a notebook or a desktop for many, many people. They will start using it and conclude they no longer need to use anything else, other than their phones


     

    Not sure where he said it was a replacement for absolutely everybody.  For a start, developers will still need a desktop/laptop to write software for it.

  • Reply 85 of 180
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post





    Still incorrect. It IS a convenience feature. For average users. Not tech people. iOS wasn't made for developers, tech fiddlers, and massively scaled heavy workloads. It was made for users. Average users that need a computing device to conveniently interact with the computing world, without demanding undue amounts of support and technical knowledge about the device. Average people aren't dumb just because they don't know all the specialist details you do. How arrogant that presumption is!



    Some day, I hope it will come to pass that tech people will stop automatically seeing every computing device as being meant for them alone and being a "massive fail" when it doesn't meet their own very technical and minority preferences.



    The technology has smarted-up, not been "dumbed-down". That's Apple's greatest contribution to this whole wretched industry. Best thing that could happen is the extinction of elitist computer geek attitudes. Computers were originally focused at that segment of the population, but that time is LONG OVER. Deal with it without slandering the rest of your fellow human beings.



    Accessing files across different applications is hardly a geek only feature. Nor it needing bigger screens, or a mouse for most input etc. Or a decent screen. Or a vertical screen. 

     

    Jobs himself says that you can't have vertical touch screens or your hand drops off. Given that argument, what is the Pro for? Who is it for? Assuming that the Pro in the iPad Pro does mean for the professional classes ( there are other iPads for home users), what professions?  About the only pro use I can legitimately see is doctors, maybe architects, or other people not the move in their day, not office staff.

  • Reply 86 of 180
    tmay wrote: »
    Yes, everybody can find something that fits them with Apple, even if you need Windows. I don't see it as replacing laptops for anyone the is a heavy laptop user anyway; but it would for somebody that really doesn't need a laptop for what they do. YMMV

    Exactly. Everyone thinks that Tim is referring to themselves in particular as part of the "many many people" that can make do with just an iPad. While it may not suffice in their particular use case, it can suffice for others, especially since the world is a big place and use cases are many. As more specialized software and functionality becomes available it may make even more headway into replacing desktops and laptops. It won't happen overnight, but as more generations move away from traditional mouse use, I think a paradigm shift will take place. Maybe not completely but who know what the future holds?
  • Reply 87 of 180
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    As I said in another thread:

    Ben Bajarin said it best on Twitter:



    "If all we look at the iPad Pro is as a laptop replacement we miss the point. "



    "The mobile generation has no ties to the PC and for them real work is done on mobile devices."



    For me the A9X chip and Apple Pencil stand out as seriously impressive technology. I think that's a bigger story than can this replace my current laptop.

    In terms of whom the iPad Pro is for, I think Gruber said it best in his review;

     

    http://daringfireball.net/2015/11/the_ipad_pro

     

    "Anyone tying themselves in knots looking for a specific target audience for the iPad Pro is going about it the wrong way.  There is no single target audience.  Is the iPad Pro meant for office workers in the enterprise?  Professional artists creating content?  Casual users playing games, watching movies, and reading? The answer is simply "Yes".

  • Reply 88 of 180
    asdasd wrote: »
    Accessing files across different applications is hardly a geek only feature. Nor it needing bigger screens, or a mouse for most input etc. Or a decent screen. Or a vertical screen.

    Which you can do in iOS. The problem comes when you have an open file system where users can willy-nilly store files anywhere. What I'd like to see is a metadata-based file system for Mac OS X that the OS keeps organized and safe. Perhaps when start to use ARM in their low-end notebooks or when Mac OS 11 arrives.
    Jobs himself says that you can't have vertical touch screens or your hand drops off. Given that argument, what is the Pro for? Who is it for? Assuming that the Pro in the iPad Pro does mean for the professional classes ( there are other iPads for home users), what professions?  About the only pro use I can legitimately see is doctors, maybe architects, or other people not the move in their day, not office staff.

    Huh? I don't understand your questions. It's a tablet. It's portable, It can be used on a flat surface.
  • Reply 89 of 180
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post



    Average people aren't dumb just because they don't know all the specialist details you do. How arrogant that presumption is!

    Probably a poor choice of words on my part. I only wanted to suggest that typical users are rather clueless about how computing actually works. No file system may be a convenience for those who are not tech savvy but it does limit their capabilities as they become more so. I am not faulting Apple's decision to design it as such. I think it was a brilliant idea for average users. I use my iPad all the time without wishing it had an accessible file system. I just don't try to do anything complicated with it. That is why I have several other computers.

  • Reply 90 of 180
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post





    I don't know if it's dying per say but for the vast majority of people out there an iPad (be it whichever model you choose) is more than enough computer to fit their needs and a laptop/desktop is overkill

    Laptop / desktop sales have been declining at a healthy rate the last two years and are predicted to do the same next year. So in that context, they are dying. Whether they die out completely is another question. No doubt we are in transition and there are still users out there who need a laptop / desktop.

  • Reply 91 of 180
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    iOS is only limited to those who grew up in the mouse/Microsoft world.

     

    For people under 25 the ipad Pro is the laptop for those who never owned a laptop.

     

    Admit it.  The laptop is dying along with the older generation.  Its up to software makers to realize this and start building serious software for iOS.  Apple has provided the hardware now.

     

     

    Ordered for pickup today:  128GB gold Wifi

     

     

    haters can hate. They hate what they don't and will never understand.


    I generally agree with your position, but you seem to think anything which is old is old and is dying and will need to change or else, is not always the case.

     

    First, keep in mind that Apple is the company to optimize what computing is today. From the OS to the hardware. The Laptop of today had been defined and optimizid by Apple over the last 25 yrs. It does not get much better than what we have today. With that said the Ipad today or in the future even with your so call software inprovement will not replace a laptop for doing real work. One issue and I had this issue with Laptops for the last 25 yrs is screen size, it is hard to manage multiply things at the same time on a small screen. This is why when I walk into any work places most people are running duel monitors today. I personally had a 21" monitor on personal or work desk since the mid 90's. At my house today I run two 27 in monitors so I can look at multiple things at the same time. You can not do this on an Ipad or a laptop all that well. When I talk about real work I am talking about working with large spreadsheets and word documents along with interaction with complex databases like Oracle and generating reports which use lots of processing power and screen real estate. It is too hard to work in small chucks of information which a Ipad even a large one will present information in.

     

    Oh, I had a ipad since the very first one and use it every day and have carried it with me since I had it. It replaced my person Mac Laptop I use to carried when work forces me to use a PC laptop. I do personal stuff on my ipad, why, PC have security issues as we all know and I am not interestes in my work knowing what I am doing personally. With that said I travel all the time with my Ipad and it does not travel well while doing work. Simply sit on plane or train and try to do emails and such. I do have a keyboard for my ipad. Why doesn't it work, one you can not put it on your lap and work, yeah you can trying doing the finger type on the screen but this is get tiresome I have done it. If you have a tray like on the plane, it does not stand on it own when ride is not smooth, it falls over all the time. The Ipad standing up is top heavy. Unlike a Latop where all the weight is in the base with counter balances the display.  I see this with every traveler I encounter. Yeah if you watch a movie or playing a game that is fine, but most people are not composing emails or trying to read or analysis spreadsheets and looking 10x10 cells at time when the speadspeed is 100x1000 cells. Forget about trying to do complex equations on an iphone use a spreadsheet program, I have tried it is very frustration experience.

     

    At the end of the day the Ipad is great for consumption of content and basic informaiton sharing which happens many times, but it has the same issue as laptops have always had is screen size and being able to work on many things at once on such a small screen.

     

    I personally feel the tablet and laptops will co-exist for a long time. No different than a desktop and a Laptop. You know there was a time where people did not believe a Laptop will replace a desktop. What changed to make this happen was two things, one low power processors with high performance and the ability to support larger external monitors. Prior to this, company would not allow someone a laptop unless they can show they need to work away from the office. I was lucky since I been in that possition since the first laptops hit the market. The thing is we are 25 years later since the 5 laptop hit the market and we still have lots of desktop machine being used. Laptop have not killed the desktop and that has been the predition for the last 10 yrs.

     

     

    So the question will be when will a table support high performance processing and mutiple large monitors.

  • Reply 92 of 180
    First review I've seen from a professional artist:

    http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/personal-tech/ipad-pro-review-andrew-coyne-chip-zdarsky-and-daniel-kaszor-test-apples-massive-tablet

    Since Chip's workflow and subject matter are very similar to mine, I was especially interested to see if he thinks the iPad Pro and Pencil can be used professionally. His verdict? It's great for reading comics, but not for working on them. :(

    One of the things I still haven't seen is someone try to draw with the pencil while the iPad is propped up in the keyboard. It looks like it would be quite unstable. Also, will it recognize input from the pencil and the keyboard at the same time?
  • Reply 93 of 180
    This is my concern too- in the market for new iPad and new computer unfortunately and was hoping to combine the two... But I'm concerned that working on multiple spreadsheets at the same time will be frustrating on the iPad pro...
  • Reply 94 of 180
    tonton wrote: »
    People under 25 want things like a BitTorrent client and selection and layers in Photoshop.

    Thank you for saying it. Not being able to download things off the internet, i.e. apps not available on the App Store will keep many from completely migrating from MacBooks to an iPad Pro.

    Granted, the security offered by sticking to the App Store is second-to-none, but in a sense you are limited only to apps that you can get from there.

    No doubt, the iPad Pro is absolutely amazing, and will be incredibly useful for most. But a laptop replacement? Not yet. Especially when the MacBook Air is such an incredible - and amazingly portable (even with a case) - laptop.
  • Reply 95 of 180
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    What I'd like to see is a metadata-based file system for Mac OS X that the OS keeps organized and safe.

    THIS. I'd also like to see it work across iOS. I really thought when Apple added Tags to the OS that we'd see that feature start to get used much more by the OS, by its apps by 3rd party developers. iCloud and iOS can easily play a part of that too, even today. The folder/physical drive location based paradigm is a legacy tether that needs to be cut. I don't give a crap where files are stored, I just want to find them quickly and easily when I want to find them. Let the OS decide where to put them, either locally, or in the cloud or somewhere in between and the OS can move files around as it learns when and where you need them and what your requirements are. It's disappointing that we didn't see more focus on Tags when it launched because that seems such a logical way to organise files and a first solid step in the direction of a true metadata-based file system.

  • Reply 96 of 180
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pmz View Post

     

    This is simply not true. Touch cannot completely replace a Mouse. They are different kinds of inputs, like different kinds of brushes.

     

    I design graphics in Creative Suite. Can't do that with touch, its just ridiculous. You need a mouse for it. This just one example.

     

    That said, Order my iPad Pro through ATT.com. When I'm away from my desk, I'd rather make do with an iPad instead of needing a second Mac.


    This is a bit of a tired argument. Why is it that whenever there is a discussion thread about iPads someone throws in Creative Suite or Photoshop as something that the iPad can't run that is vital to your life? You are obviously not the target market for this device. The vast majority of computer users out there do not use these software suites. When they have need to edit a photo, there are many many light weight photo editors out there that can do the job just fine. The iPad is an excellent laptop replacement for the %70ish percent of the population that just doesn't care about creative suite. To use you own analagy, most people just need a couple of brushes to slap paint on the wall. You need a whole box of brushes... and apple makes a computer for that too. Apple knows its market. It understands there are a whole lot of people like me who just have light weight computing needs.  The iPad is ideal for that market. It is not meant to be a laptop replacement for everyone. Since you can't have a mouse dangling from your iPad, this is not going to work for you, it isn't intended for you and apple makes a laptop that will meet your needs perfectly (it just happens to be a macbook pro).

  • Reply 97 of 180
    lkrupp wrote: »
    sog35 wrote: »
     
    iOS is only limited to those who grew up in the mouse/Microsoft world.

    For people under 25 the ipad Pro is the laptop for those who never owned a laptop.

    Admit it.  The laptop is dying along with the older generation.  Its up to software makers to realize this and start building serious software for iOS.  Apple has provided the hardware now.


    Ordered for pickup today:  128GB gold Wifi


    haters can hate. They hate what they don't and will never understand.


    This ?

    The reviews are pretty much what I expected from the traditional PC generation. Keyboard, mouse, command line. What’s a track pad? What’s a ‘pencil’?

    Mmm ...

    What's a mouse? What's a keyboard?

    It is interesting that the first PC (microcomputer), the 1975 MITS Altair had Touch Input.


    1000 1000

    http://www.oldcomputers.net/altair.html

    If you look closely, you can see the Touch Input Switches (with associated LEDs) -- Flick a switch Up or Down to indicate a zero bit or one bit.
    Programming the Altair was an extremely tedious process. The user toggled the switches to positions corresponding to the desired 8080 microprocessor instruction or opcode in binary, then used the 'DEPOSIT NEXT' switch to load that instruction into the next address of the machine's memory. They repeated this step until all the opcodes of a presumably complete and correct program were in place.

    When the machine first shipped, flipping switches on the front panel was the only way to get programs or data into the machine, and the only output from the programs was the patterns of lights on the panel. Nevertheless, many were sold in this form. Roberts was already hard at work on additional cards, including a paper tape reader for storage, additional RAM cards, and a RS-232 interface to connect to a proper Teletype terminal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800


    I actually special ordered and sold one of these to a customer in 1979.
  • Reply 98 of 180
    gqb wrote: »
    The new MacBook 'One' is more a proof of concept than a final state. That's obvious. Same was true of the first Air.

    The one in danger is the Air, not the MacBooke One.

    The new MacBook isn't a "proof of concept" because it is an actual product that is for sale to the general public and not a prototype or theory. The MacBook Air is safe because it is a traditional laptop that is at the same price point of the iPad Pro but is more powerful and has a longer battery life.
  • Reply 99 of 180

    iOS is severely limited and the iPad pro doesn't even have 3D touch! What a waste. Outdated before the day it went on sale.

  • Reply 100 of 180

    Why do these titles always have to be so inflammatory?  Why not the more apt 'due to iOS'?  This does not need to be a reality TV show sort of blog all the time. 

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