Apple's new iPad Pro is faster, more affordable than Microsoft's Surface Pro 4



  • Reply 41 of 324

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

    Exactly. Microsoft sold about a million in all of FY2015. Laughable. Even if FY2016 is 3x or 5x that number. (Which it won't be).


    Actually - my estimate would be closer to 5 million units (1.3 million in one quarter early in 2015).  You are misreading the research.  5 million is not that bad.... but it is not "great" if you compare it to the tablet market as a whole.  If you compare it to the laptop market - it is a reasonably good number.  

  • Reply 42 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    No I'm not.


    The Apple pencil is literally the best performing drawing tool with almost zero lag.


    The Microsoft one is not even low level professional quality.  You can buy stylus that cost $10 that are just as good.


    It is a low latency device and it is probably worth the high price tag, but it is not worth $300.  


    The microsoft stylus is probably similar technology to the one I have - and I believe it cost around $30.

  • Reply 43 of 324
    mr omr o Posts: 1,046member

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    iPad had keyboard covers before the Surface came out.  

    My mistake: I meant 'smart keyboard cover', not 'smart cover' as you rightfully pointed out.

  • Reply 44 of 324

    The low latency is partially acheived through technology, partially through predictive algorithms.  

  • Reply 45 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    You are missing the point.  Its the combination of the pencil + what the iPad sensor has that leads to almost zero lag drawing.  Even the best professional tools can't beat the pencil in lag and pen angle shading.


    To compare the Apple pencil to the Microsoft stylus is ridiculous.  They are not even in the same ball park.  The Microsoft stylus is a note taking tool.  The Apple pencil is a full blown professional level tool.


    And you were missing my point, I said you were exaggerating a bit -- and you were.

  • Reply 46 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    iPad one had keyboard covers officially licensed by Apple.  This was years before the surface came out.


    The iPad "1" had a keyboard DOCK, not a keyboard cover from Apple.... and it was promptly not upgraded for iPad "2" and discontinued going forward.  A dock is not a cover.

  • Reply 47 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    No I didn't.  You said you bought a Microsoft level stylus for $30.  That means to cost about $10 to make.  Just like I said:  the surface stylus is a $10 device.


    The Apple pencil works as good as $700-$1000 stand alone drawing tools.


    So your comparison is that  a Microsoft level stylus sells for $30 is worth $10 because that is your calculation of what the manufacturing cost is.  Then you are taking a stylus that Apple is selling for $100 dollars and saying it is worth $300, now $700 - $1000 dollars even though it likely costs at most maybe $30 to manufacture..... I now see your logic clearly....

  • Reply 48 of 324

    Originally Posted by bkkcanuck View Post



    Anantech is saying it is a dual core - and all these months I was working on the wrong assumption (I looked it up after the announcement and obviously got the wrong information).  The A8X was a tri-core.  

    A8X is has a tri-core GPU and dual-core CPU. 

  • Reply 49 of 324
    Except is isn't cheaper. The Ipad itself is, yes. But then you have to buy the keyboard for $169 and the apple pencil for $99. Suddenly your "cheaper" tablet (which still doesn't have a USB port or anything that makes it easy to connect and still doesn't run a desktop OS) cost you $168 more.
  • Reply 50 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    So surface copied the ipad touch screen, touch interface, keyboard option, smart cover, stylus support.


    And now you say Apple is copying Surface?  get the fuc out of here.


    The only think Surface made up was trying to squeeze a desktop OS into a mobile device. That's it. 


    I am not saying the Apple is copying Microsoft -- primarily because it is hitting different markets.... but to be quite honest everyone copies everyone at some point.....    The new Apple keyboard case looks much more like Microsofts than the version 1 dock.....


    I think Apple's solution is much much better -- but then I also like people to be honest with their descriptions and not bloviate....

  • Reply 51 of 324

    Originally Posted by RedGeminiPA View Post


    A8X is has a tri-core GPU and dual-core CPU. 


    Not according to Anandtech - see the comparison table in the following:


  • Reply 52 of 324
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Faster than a Surface Pro 4 but if you want the keyboard or pencil you're out of luck for the next month.
  • Reply 53 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    You ignorance is showing. The Apple pencil does not cost $30 to manufacture.  Much of the cost is imbedded into the iPad screen and sensor. Not to mention the software written to predict movement.  Do you realize how much R&D it was to build the pencil?  That R&D is not free but gets added to the cost of the product.


    The Microsoft stylus breaks no new ground and probably cost $0 in R&D.  Its probably made out of China mass produced parts.


    You think saying the Pencil+iPad Pro is no equal to $700-$1000 standalone systems?  Read the reviews dude.  The Pencil is as good as those high cost stand alone tools.


    I agree with you in part, and I know some people that have had some experience with it.... but your using different scales..... and now you are saying that Apple selling the pencil at a loss.  Apple aims for a gross margin on high end devices at between 39% to 41% and higher on low priced things.....  I highly doubt they have changed their model now.  What comes in the iPad Pro is priced into the iPad Pro, what comes in the pencil is priced in the pencil along with their typical margin.  

  • Reply 54 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    Give me a break.


    How else can a keyboard/cover look like? 


    How am I being dishonest?  The truth is the Surface has copied a ton of stuff from the iPad (Multi-touch OS, stylus support, key board support, slate design).  The only thing original the Surface has done is trying to stuff a desktop OS into a mobile device and the kickstand.  Both things Apple has not copied.


    Like many of the 3rd party keyboards which don't look like Microsofts.....  Logitech keyboard (which my sister uses) looks nothing like Microsofts.  

  • Reply 55 of 324
    I think it's hilarious that all the Mac Haters did was bitch about how much Macs cost but have no problem shelling out $2k for a usable MS tablet. You're better off getting a MacBook Pro and that's really what the Surface should be compared to because it's not Tablet, it's a laptop without a permanent keyboard. It's a laptop because it runs a full OS and has the full set of ports that laptops have. iPads should really only be compared to Android tablets. I couldn't imagine trying to use Maya on a Surface or an iPad. I couldn't imagine trying to code on one either, I have a 34" Ultrawide LG 1440p monitor hooked up to my rMBP and that combo barely gives me enough space to do what I need to do.

    The funny thing here is what different people consider "Serious Work", I don't consider using Excel or Word serious work, it's nothing compared to the software that I need to work with. Autodesk has some nice modeling software for iPad but it's nothing compared to their Maya tool set. Maya on a Surface Pro is pointless...

    Let's not forget the real downside to the Surface is that it runs Windows and your typical user is just going to wind up getting this thing loaded up with malware.

    Windows and the PC market is in trouble... If they weren't, they wouldn't have gotten together to launch the joint marketing campaign, "PC Does What?"... You don't get together and "Gang up" like that if you're not getting your asses kicked.
  • Reply 56 of 324
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

    This fact: "That problem is only getting worse for Surface Pro, because it relies upon Intel's expensive, premium x86 chips" makes me wonder how long before we read, like Google has indicated it will, Microsoft might try to copy Apple in creating its own custom chips.

    No one can compete on price performance now since Apple tablets don't have to add in a profit for Intel too. It's only a matter of time IMHO before the same will be true of the Mac line up as the need to run VMs for Windows becomes a distant memory for so many of us. I cannot believe Apple are not also working on a far more powerful custom SOC for the OS X range.

     MS don't even need to develop their own chip, I'm sure Samsung would be happy to sell them their Exynos processors which are up there with the A9.  Given that MS are trying to make W10 cross platform and run on their ARM based phones, a lot of the work is likely already done.

  • Reply 57 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    iPad has had hundreds of different keyboards/covers.  There were many that look like the surface before the surface came out.



    That does not look like either Microsofts or Apples, it is not even a cover.  It his held together with the tablet in a case that holds both a keyboard and a tablet for doing text entry.  


    Apple made a dock (which held the iPad in portrait mode; and was not the most portable) for the original iPad and then discontinued it for iPad 2 - which did not make some people happy.... they did not discontinue it and recommend using 3rd party keyboards, they discontinued it and recommended that you use the keyboard through the screen -- that that was the future going forward.

  • Reply 58 of 324

    Originally Posted by bkkcanuck View Post


    Something is weird with the GeekBench 3 on the iPad pro - your spreadsheet lists 5498 for multi-core and 3233 single core.  


    I was under the understanding that the A9X was a quad-core so I was expecting something like 2100+ single core and around 8,000 for all 4 (maybe dropping back if it is throttled).  It will be interesting to find out why the numbers between single and multi are so narrow.


    The A9X features an Apple-designed 64-bit 2.26 GHz ARMv8-A dual-core CPU called Twister.

  • Reply 59 of 324

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    Looks the same to me.  If you don't think the Surface copied the iPad you are nuts.


    Not even close - the Microsoft one is a fabric type cover.... the Logitech one is a hardshell keyboard independent of the iPad.  


    Either way I would not buy either of them.  If a keyboard is that important for you then you are likely using it as a laptop and that is better served by a Macbook.

  • Reply 60 of 324
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,367member
    wdowell wrote: »
    In the interest of fairness, the Surface Pro 4 INCLUDES the Stylus. So, if you're comparing with the intention of buying the Apple Pencil it's important to note that cost, when saying it's cheaper.. 

    That's because you need a stylus to use the "not really optimized for touch, my finger is just like a mouse" UI of Windows. The Apple Pencil is not a stylus, it's a drawing tool. You don't need it to operate the device. You can completely use the iPad Pro perfectly well with just your fingers.
Sign In or Register to comment.