nonsense. iOS is the very definition of a general computing device.
No, the Mac is the very definition of a general computing device.
The iPad is a more specialised device where the computer is not front and centre. Sort of like the early "General Motor" was a motor that you could buy to do many different tasks, but as the market matured the motor was less front and centre and more specialised devices - like an off the assembly line car arrived where it is driven by a motor and you might know it has a motor but that is about the extent of it.
Prior to this Qualcomm was ALL about more cores and cranking the clock speed. From the S4 dual core to the 810 octa core, all they have been doing was adding cores and cranking the clock. This is the first time they actually concentrated on making better cores and using fewer of them. Yet they still went with 4 cores, which shows their individual cores are still way behind Apple.[/URL]
I agree. Apple is at the top of the bell curve on mobile processor design.
The Snapdragon 820 (underclocked) device discovered at Geekbench is reported to be the Xiaomi Mi5. As mentioned in my previous posts specs don't tell the story all that well anyway. There's actually more interesting features in that chip than speeds IMO. https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4157755
Lots of single-post MS fans showing up today. I guess they want to post on an Apple fan site just espouse their absolute confidence in the MS's direct hardware ambitions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin
These are the same people who think "real" work can only be accomplished through an "Office suite" of applications. Microsoft did a great job of jamming that paradigm into an entire generations mind that they've essentially been brainwashed into thinking that work only happens in the confines of a spreadsheet or a word processor. And to an extent it is true, but only because there's so much legacy baggage IT has to drag with them, they can't simply move on.
I have been saying this as well (in general relation to desktop/laptop vs. tablet for "work"). As you might expect, those who post on Internet forums are a little biased as to what "real work" is. To most it appears to be coding/scripting, Excel spreadsheet number crunching, or all-day typing creating PPT or Word docs - something only that a PC can do (or an MS Surface:). Sure, that is what some do (I am one of them!), but it doesn't take much thinking to see there are whole categories of jobs to which "PCs" (in the general sense of the word) were simply the only tool available, but not necessarily the best tool for "their" jobs. A previous poster hit on many of them (doctors/nurses, transportation, education, sales, construction, creative, ...).
Those growing up using mobile devices as their primary computing devices are not going down this same route even in the more traditional enterprise space, and will develop new ways of working that leave "our way of working" in the past. Those companies that focus only on what Internet posters view as "real work" will be left out in the new mobile world.
Final comment regarding enterprise purchases. For a long time, we have heard that a key issue to Apple's Mac adoption in business was its upfront price - that Macs were about 2x price that most medium and large companies paid for their PCs. The purchase decision maker and the user were different, and so cost was the primary factor. Thus the dominance of extremely low margin, commodity PC makers in this sector. Not sure now why many think that an expensive MS hardware offering is going to change that trend. I was going to buy 1000 of those HP desktops for $500 each, but no decided to go with the MS Surface at $1200 each...really?
Will MS Surface have a niche - sure (could be a few million units a year). Will it be profitable - don't know as MS doesn't break that out. Will it become the dominant mobile computing platform - highly unlikely, when MS has almost no smartphone share.
It makes absolutely no difference, since Microsoft's frankentablet has next to zero traction in the market. Comsumers don't really care about yet another attempt by Microsoft to become relevant by aping Apple poorly.
I'll take that a step further. I have a SP3. It's a far clumsier laptop than an MBA, and a far clumsier tablet than a regular iPad. Whatever the claims or even measured benchmarks, everything feels faster on an iPad than the SP3. Everything feels faster on an MBA. The SP3 has terrible battery life, poor color accuracy, and bipolar software. I would much rather carry an iPad and an MBA, than that hot mess of a Microsoft product, and we haven't even touched on using it in your lap.
The lack of a file system, and admittedly poor I/O capabilities, make the iPad Pro pro less of a true laptop, but as a photo modification and portfolio device it's awesome. I'll bet it will find a home in photo and video studios. Add in it's other capabilities, and it will be used as a laptop replacement by many folks. Not everyone needs a "true computer." Folks who belittle the iPad as merely a media consumption device are either ignorant, or willfully ignorant.
All this might be true but the Surface runs the full blown Win10 OS while the iPad Pro is hindered with iOS. If this has OS X then the comparisons would be valid.
This tired old narrative from Ballmer's marketing department. Next you're going to brag about how Windows Phone 8 is "full blown" Windows while iPhone run iOS as a reason that comparison isn't valid.
oh dear...please. it's only a pain for IT admins who only know MS products. not offering Java or flash is a good thing. and if you bought an iPad expecting it to run various obscure Windows programs that doesn't say much. good thing it runs Office tho, as well as iWork which can also be accessed via the cloud and export to common formats.
Do any of you actually work in an enterprise? Do you know how much custom software - much of it legacy - a typical large enterprise runs? I work for a fortune 50 company and I can tell you we have hundreds of web applications (probably thousands, but, this just the small part of the company I am aware of) that can't be used on an ipad at all. Sites that require flash or Silverlight or java - or some ie specific behavior. Sure, we are trying to change that with new applications to make them more mobile friently - but, that doesn't do anything for all those hundreds of legacy 1st and 3rd party web applications that are used every day to get real work done. It will take a lot of time and most importantly lots of dollars to convert those legacy apps - making those conversions very much a non-priority for management. And I didn't even mention the hundreds of custom windows desktop applications.
The only users that use iPads are basically management types - who spend the majority of their day in meetings and reading/sending email and looking at dashboards.
My son is writing a game engine. Not doable on an iPad.
Imagine that, coming up with one example as if that's somehow representative. It's amazing how "real work" and "professionals" always include themselves while excluding everyone else and the work they do. Oh ffs, typical argumentative post from you.
That your IT department has lagged so far behind in mobile shows a lack of vision and strategic planning. Your competitors that do have mobile already intergrated in their work flow will or have already blown you guys out of the water.
Dude, there are plenty of large corporations that still run systems written in COBOL and I wouldn't doubt Fortran and ADA as well. Mobile is simply not relevant for much of the real world.
My son is writing a game engine. Not doable on an iPad.
Irrelevant. That are always use-cases for requiring a full laptop/desktop over an iPad.
Apple isn't going for the 1% of the population that runs full Photoshop or does coding as their primary job description. They're going for the other 99% who could replace most (if not all) of their computing needs by an iPad Pro.
People need to stop bringing up these esoteric uses that hardly anyone does and judge the iPad Pro against those uses, instead of the other things it's perfectly suited for.
That your IT department has lagged so far behind in mobile shows a lack of vision and strategic planning. Your competitors that do have mobile already intergrated in their work flow will or have already blown you guys out of the water.
It may be backwards to you but he has just described practically every large multinational company.
Imagine that, coming up with one example as if that's somehow representative. It's amazing how "real work" and "professionals" always include themselves while excluding everyone else and the work they do. Oh ffs, typical argumentative post from you.
One example? I could sit here all day coming up with examples. Tell you what. Take any high end console or PC video game and watch the credits at the end for the 5 to 10 minutes they might take to scroll. I doubt a single one of the hundreds of professionals listed did their work on an iPad, could do their work on an iPad or would do their work on an iPad if it was even a slight possibility.
One example? I could sit here all day coming up with examples. Tell you what. Take any high end console or PC video game and watch the credits at the end for the 5 to 10 minutes they might take to scroll. I doubt a single one of the hundreds of professionals listed did their work on an iPad, could do their work on an iPad or would do their work on an iPad if it was even a slight possibility.
I agree. Apple is at the top of the bell curve on mobile processor design.
The Snapdragon 820 (underclocked) device discovered at Geekbench is reported to be the Xiaomi Mi5. As mentioned in my previous posts specs don't tell the story all that well anyway. There's actually more interesting features in that chip than speeds IMO.
If that's the actual Geekbench result for the 820 then it's pathetic. Very good single core results but horrible multicore. It should be getting somewhere around 7000 for multicore if a single core can hit 2100.
The A7/8/9 also have many "interesting features" in their processors. The only difference is that since Apple doesn't sell them to third parties they don't need to market them with big fancy Powerpoint slides. Outside of the integrated modem/radio, I don't see anything in the 820 that's also not available in the A9.
basic content creation? PP is on iPad. it's a thing. Outlook support too.
I asked what sort of "real work" can't or won't be done on iPad...those don't answer my question.
The ipad can work for some classes of user - mainly management types that only do light computing and some mobile workers - but, they are not a good fit for a large portion of information worker in an enterprise. Why? Well one is the small screen - and no real dock option to pair it with a larger monitor. It's inability to run legacy desktop applications. It's inability to run MANY internal enterprise web applications. No AD integration, no file management (and yes that is important), limited local storage.
So, the real work that can't be done:
Any job that requires a 1st or 3rd party web application that involves an interface using flash, Silverlight, java, or AD integration
Any job that requires a 1st or 3rd party windows desktop application
Software developers (of which there are hundreds if not thousands at the company I work for and software is not the primary business here)
Sorry, but, there is lots and lots of real work that an ipad is not suited for. There are lots of jobs that a surface isn't suited for as well - however, the size of that group is much smaller.
Irrelevant. That are always use-cases for requiring a full laptop/desktop over an iPad.
Apple isn't going for the 1% of the population that runs full Photoshop or does coding as their primary job description. They're going for the other 99% who could replace most (if not all) of their computing needs by an iPad Pro.
Isn't that the point though? For the 1% (or larger) of the population who do need full Photoshop or Illustrator or Lightroom or Visual Studio, the Surface Pro makes sense.
There's room in the market for both the iPad Pro and Surface Pro.
People seem to think you can just write a universal Windows App and let the compiler take care of things for you and voila - a touch based Windows App.
Which is actually absolutely true. You do understand that there is a huge difference between the ui frameworks of a WUA and classic Win32 app right?
Comments
nonsense. iOS is the very definition of a general computing device.
No, the Mac is the very definition of a general computing device.
The iPad is a more specialised device where the computer is not front and centre. Sort of like the early "General Motor" was a motor that you could buy to do many different tasks, but as the market matured the motor was less front and centre and more specialised devices - like an off the assembly line car arrived where it is driven by a motor and you might know it has a motor but that is about the extent of it.
The Snapdragon 820 (underclocked) device discovered at Geekbench is reported to be the Xiaomi Mi5. As mentioned in my previous posts specs don't tell the story all that well anyway. There's actually more interesting features in that chip than speeds IMO.
https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4157755
Lots of single-post MS fans showing up today. I guess they want to post on an Apple fan site just espouse their absolute confidence in the MS's direct hardware ambitions.
Quote:
These are the same people who think "real" work can only be accomplished through an "Office suite" of applications. Microsoft did a great job of jamming that paradigm into an entire generations mind that they've essentially been brainwashed into thinking that work only happens in the confines of a spreadsheet or a word processor. And to an extent it is true, but only because there's so much legacy baggage IT has to drag with them, they can't simply move on.
I have been saying this as well (in general relation to desktop/laptop vs. tablet for "work"). As you might expect, those who post on Internet forums are a little biased as to what "real work" is. To most it appears to be coding/scripting, Excel spreadsheet number crunching, or all-day typing creating PPT or Word docs - something only that a PC can do (or an MS Surface:). Sure, that is what some do (I am one of them!), but it doesn't take much thinking to see there are whole categories of jobs to which "PCs" (in the general sense of the word) were simply the only tool available, but not necessarily the best tool for "their" jobs. A previous poster hit on many of them (doctors/nurses, transportation, education, sales, construction, creative, ...).
Those growing up using mobile devices as their primary computing devices are not going down this same route even in the more traditional enterprise space, and will develop new ways of working that leave "our way of working" in the past. Those companies that focus only on what Internet posters view as "real work" will be left out in the new mobile world.
Final comment regarding enterprise purchases. For a long time, we have heard that a key issue to Apple's Mac adoption in business was its upfront price - that Macs were about 2x price that most medium and large companies paid for their PCs. The purchase decision maker and the user were different, and so cost was the primary factor. Thus the dominance of extremely low margin, commodity PC makers in this sector. Not sure now why many think that an expensive MS hardware offering is going to change that trend. I was going to buy 1000 of those HP desktops for $500 each, but no decided to go with the MS Surface at $1200 each...really?
Will MS Surface have a niche - sure (could be a few million units a year). Will it be profitable - don't know as MS doesn't break that out. Will it become the dominant mobile computing platform - highly unlikely, when MS has almost no smartphone share.
It makes absolutely no difference, since Microsoft's frankentablet has next to zero traction in the market. Comsumers don't really care about yet another attempt by Microsoft to become relevant by aping Apple poorly.
I'll take that a step further. I have a SP3. It's a far clumsier laptop than an MBA, and a far clumsier tablet than a regular iPad. Whatever the claims or even measured benchmarks, everything feels faster on an iPad than the SP3. Everything feels faster on an MBA. The SP3 has terrible battery life, poor color accuracy, and bipolar software. I would much rather carry an iPad and an MBA, than that hot mess of a Microsoft product, and we haven't even touched on using it in your lap.
The lack of a file system, and admittedly poor I/O capabilities, make the iPad Pro pro less of a true laptop, but as a photo modification and portfolio device it's awesome. I'll bet it will find a home in photo and video studios. Add in it's other capabilities, and it will be used as a laptop replacement by many folks. Not everyone needs a "true computer." Folks who belittle the iPad as merely a media consumption device are either ignorant, or willfully ignorant.
This tired old narrative from Ballmer's marketing department. Next you're going to brag about how Windows Phone 8 is "full blown" Windows while iPhone run iOS as a reason that comparison isn't valid.
nonsense. iOS is the very definition of a general computing device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkkcanuck
No, the Mac is the very definition of a general computing device.
They are both general purpose computing devices.
But iPad is like getting your meal at a fast food drive-through, where as the Mac is more like preparing your own gourmet meal.
True. And where did Microsoft get the idea of replacing Windows Tablet PC's 20-years of pen-based input with multitouch finger gestures?
basic content creation? PP is on iPad. it's a thing. Outlook support too.
I asked what sort of "real work" can't or won't be done on iPad...those don't answer my question.
My son is writing a game engine. Not doable on an iPad.
oh dear...please. it's only a pain for IT admins who only know MS products. not offering Java or flash is a good thing. and if you bought an iPad expecting it to run various obscure Windows programs that doesn't say much. good thing it runs Office tho, as well as iWork which can also be accessed via the cloud and export to common formats.
Do any of you actually work in an enterprise? Do you know how much custom software - much of it legacy - a typical large enterprise runs? I work for a fortune 50 company and I can tell you we have hundreds of web applications (probably thousands, but, this just the small part of the company I am aware of) that can't be used on an ipad at all. Sites that require flash or Silverlight or java - or some ie specific behavior. Sure, we are trying to change that with new applications to make them more mobile friently - but, that doesn't do anything for all those hundreds of legacy 1st and 3rd party web applications that are used every day to get real work done. It will take a lot of time and most importantly lots of dollars to convert those legacy apps - making those conversions very much a non-priority for management. And I didn't even mention the hundreds of custom windows desktop applications.
The only users that use iPads are basically management types - who spend the majority of their day in meetings and reading/sending email and looking at dashboards.
My son is writing a game engine. Not doable on an iPad.
Imagine that, coming up with one example as if that's somehow representative. It's amazing how "real work" and "professionals" always include themselves while excluding everyone else and the work they do. Oh ffs, typical argumentative post from you.
Then you work in a backwards company.
That your IT department has lagged so far behind in mobile shows a lack of vision and strategic planning. Your competitors that do have mobile already intergrated in their work flow will or have already blown you guys out of the water.
Dude, there are plenty of large corporations that still run systems written in COBOL and I wouldn't doubt Fortran and ADA as well. Mobile is simply not relevant for much of the real world.
My son is writing a game engine. Not doable on an iPad.
Irrelevant. That are always use-cases for requiring a full laptop/desktop over an iPad.
Apple isn't going for the 1% of the population that runs full Photoshop or does coding as their primary job description. They're going for the other 99% who could replace most (if not all) of their computing needs by an iPad Pro.
People need to stop bringing up these esoteric uses that hardly anyone does and judge the iPad Pro against those uses, instead of the other things it's perfectly suited for.
Then you work in a backwards company.
That your IT department has lagged so far behind in mobile shows a lack of vision and strategic planning. Your competitors that do have mobile already intergrated in their work flow will or have already blown you guys out of the water.
It may be backwards to you but he has just described practically every large multinational company.
Imagine that, coming up with one example as if that's somehow representative. It's amazing how "real work" and "professionals" always include themselves while excluding everyone else and the work they do. Oh ffs, typical argumentative post from you.
One example? I could sit here all day coming up with examples. Tell you what. Take any high end console or PC video game and watch the credits at the end for the 5 to 10 minutes they might take to scroll. I doubt a single one of the hundreds of professionals listed did their work on an iPad, could do their work on an iPad or would do their work on an iPad if it was even a slight possibility.
And that's why Apple still makes Macs, no?
I agree. Apple is at the top of the bell curve on mobile processor design.
The Snapdragon 820 (underclocked) device discovered at Geekbench is reported to be the Xiaomi Mi5. As mentioned in my previous posts specs don't tell the story all that well anyway. There's actually more interesting features in that chip than speeds IMO.
https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4157755
If that's the actual Geekbench result for the 820 then it's pathetic. Very good single core results but horrible multicore. It should be getting somewhere around 7000 for multicore if a single core can hit 2100.
The A7/8/9 also have many "interesting features" in their processors. The only difference is that since Apple doesn't sell them to third parties they don't need to market them with big fancy Powerpoint slides. Outside of the integrated modem/radio, I don't see anything in the 820 that's also not available in the A9.
basic content creation? PP is on iPad. it's a thing. Outlook support too.
I asked what sort of "real work" can't or won't be done on iPad...those don't answer my question.
The ipad can work for some classes of user - mainly management types that only do light computing and some mobile workers - but, they are not a good fit for a large portion of information worker in an enterprise. Why? Well one is the small screen - and no real dock option to pair it with a larger monitor. It's inability to run legacy desktop applications. It's inability to run MANY internal enterprise web applications. No AD integration, no file management (and yes that is important), limited local storage.
So, the real work that can't be done:
Any job that requires a 1st or 3rd party web application that involves an interface using flash, Silverlight, java, or AD integration
Any job that requires a 1st or 3rd party windows desktop application
Software developers (of which there are hundreds if not thousands at the company I work for and software is not the primary business here)
Sorry, but, there is lots and lots of real work that an ipad is not suited for. There are lots of jobs that a surface isn't suited for as well - however, the size of that group is much smaller.
Irrelevant. That are always use-cases for requiring a full laptop/desktop over an iPad.
Apple isn't going for the 1% of the population that runs full Photoshop or does coding as their primary job description. They're going for the other 99% who could replace most (if not all) of their computing needs by an iPad Pro.
Isn't that the point though? For the 1% (or larger) of the population who do need full Photoshop or Illustrator or Lightroom or Visual Studio, the Surface Pro makes sense.
There's room in the market for both the iPad Pro and Surface Pro.
One example? I could sit here all day coming up with examples.
You missed the point - there's you and there's argumentativeness, and here on this site, they are one.
People seem to think you can just write a universal Windows App and let the compiler take care of things for you and voila - a touch based Windows App.
Which is actually absolutely true. You do understand that there is a huge difference between the ui frameworks of a WUA and classic Win32 app right?