I also know that these radicals exist because of what people like you did to their world.
Complete bullshit.
They became frightened which grew into these extremists viewpoints…
Literally nothing grew into this. This is how it has been since the foundation.
…just as your ignorance and fear has come clear by declaring all Muslims terrorists.
Read the fucking Quran. They all believe the same thing. They all ACT on the same thing.
Peace, Violence, & Abrogation
Muslims in the West are quick to point to passages such as Quran 109:6 (“You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion”) and 2:256 (“There is no compulsion in religion”) as evidence that Islam is a religion of peace. When confronted with harsher passages such as 9:5 (“Slay the idolaters wherever you find them”) and 9:29 (“Fight those who believe not in Allah”), Westernized Muslims interpret these verses in light of the more peaceful teachings of the Quran, typically saying something like: “Well, the Quran can’t be commanding us to kill unbelievers, since it says that there’s no compulsion in religion.”
Hence, Westernized Muslims pick the verses of the Quran they find most attractive, and they use these verses to sanitize the rest of the Quran. But is this the correct way to interpret the Quran? Unfortunately, the answer is no. The Quran presents its own method of interpretation—the Doctrine of Abrogation.
Whatever verse we shall abrogate, or cause [thee] to forget, we will bring a better than it, or one like unto it. Dost thou not know that God is almighty?
Quran 2:106
When We substitute one revelation for another—and God knows best what He reveals (in stages)—they say, “Thou art but a forger”: but most of them understand not.
Quran 16:101
According to the Quran, then, when Muslims are faced with conflicting commands, they aren’t supposed to pick the one they like best. Rather, they are to go to history and see which verse was revealed last. Whichever verse came last is said to abrogate (or cancel) earlier revelations.
What happens when we apply this methodology to Quranic verses on peace and violence?
When we turn to Islam’s theological sources and historical writings (Quran, Hadith, Sira, and Tafsir), we find that there are three stages in the call to Jihad, depending on the status of Muslims in a society.
STAGE ONE
When Muslims are completely outnumbered and can’t possibly win a physical confrontation with unbelievers, they are to live in peace with non-Muslims and preach a message of tolerance. We see an example of this stage when Muhammad and his followers were a persecuted minority in Mecca. Since the Muslims were entirely outnumbered, the revelations Muhammad received during this stage (e.g. “You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion”) called for religious tolerance and proclaimed a future punishment (rather than a worldly punishment) for unbelievers.
STAGE TWO
When there are enough Muslims and resources to defend the Islamic community, Muslims are called to engage in defensive Jihad. Thus, when Muhammad had formed alliances with various groups outside Mecca and the Muslim community had become large enough to begin fighting, Muhammad received Quran 22:39-40:
Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them; Those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: our Lord is Allah…
Although Muslims in the West often pretend that Islam only allows defensive fighting, later revelations show otherwise.
STAGE THREE
When Muslims establish a majority and achieve political power in an area, they are commanded to engage in offensive Jihad. Hence, once Mecca and Arabia were under Muhammad’s control, he received the call the fight all unbelievers. In Surah 9:29, we read:
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Notice that this verse doesn’t order Muslims to fight oppressors, but to fight those who don’t believe in Islam (including the “People of the Book”—Jews and Christians).
Not surprisingly, we find similar commands in Islam’s most trusted collections of ahadith (traditions containing Muhammad’s teachings).
Muhammad said: “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illallah, Allah will save his property and his life from me.”
Sahih al-Bukhari 6924
Muhammad said: “I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah.”
Sahih Muslim 30
Here again, the criterion for fighting people is that the people believe something other than Islam.
It’s clear, then, that when Muslims rose to power, peaceful verses of the Quran were abrogated by verses commanding Muslims to fight people based on their beliefs. Islam’s greatest scholars acknowledge this. For instance, Ibn Kathir (Islam’s greatest commentator on the Quran) sums up Stage Three as follows: “Therefore all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the Jizyah, they should be fought till they are killed.”
When Muslims Reach Stage Three
Abrogation also accounts for shifting attitudes regarding Jews and Christians in the Quran. While Muslims are to be friendly to Jews and Christians when the former are outnumbered, the Islamic position changes when Muslims reach Stage Three, at which point Christians and Jews are to recognize their inferior status and pay the Jizyah (a payment made to Muslims in exchange for not being killed by them). Consider some of Muhammad’s later teachings about Christians and Jews:
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Quran 5:51
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Quran 9:30
Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein. They are the worst of creatures.
Quran 98:6
Muhammad said: “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.”
Sahih Muslim 4366
Muhammad said: “Do not give the People of the Book the greeting first. Force them to the narrowest part of the road.”
Al-Bukhari, Al-Adab al-Mufrad 1103
Needless to say, these teachings can hardly be considered peaceful or tolerant.
Muslims in the West
Since Muhammad obviously commanded his followers to fight unbelievers (simply for being unbelievers), why do Muslims in the West deny this? Here we must turn to Surah 3:28, which reads:
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security.
According to this verse (which uses a variation of the word Taqiyya, meaning “concealment”), Muslims are not allowed to be friends with non-Muslims. However, if Muslims feel threatened by a stronger adversary, they are allowed to pretend to be friendly. Ibn Kathir comments: “In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly but never inwardly.” Abu Darda, one of Muhammad’s companions, put it this way: “We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.”
Assessment
Is Islam a religion of peace? No. Islam is a religion that pretends to be peaceful when Muslims are too weak to win a war. When Islam is dominant, Muslims are commanded to subjugate or kill everyone around them. (Just look at how non-Muslims are treated in Muslim countries; compare this constant abuse and persecution with what is being proclaimed about “peaceful” Islam by Westernized Muslims.)
Of course, there are many Muslims who aren’t violent. Many Muslims in the West love peace and tolerance. But they didn’t get these values from Islam. They got them from the West, and now they’re reinterpreting Islam based on their Western values. For dedicated Muslims, however, there are only two possible situations: (1) fighting unbelievers, and (2) pretending to be peaceful while preparing to fight unbelievers. Either way, conquering the world in the name of Allah is always the goal.
~:~
As long as the Muslim population remains under 2% in any given country, they will, for the most part, be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States–0.6%
Australia–1.5%
Canada–1.9%
China–1.8%
Italy–1.5%
Norway–1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize to other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from prisons and street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark–2%
Germany–3.7%
United Kingdom–2.7%
Spain–4%
Thailand–4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves–along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France–8%
Philippines–5%
Sweden–5%
Switzerland–4.3%
The Netherlands–5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago–5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Shari'ah, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Shari'ah law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Is1am and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:
Guyana–10%
India–13.4%
Israel–16%
Kenya–10%
Russia–15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, as in:
Ethiopia–32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, as in:
Bosnia–40%
Chad–53.1%
Lebanon–59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of nonbelievers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Shari’ah Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels, as in:
Albania–70%
Malaysia–60.4%
Qatar–77.5%
Sudan–70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, as has been experienced–and in some ways is ongoing–in:
Bangladesh–83%
Egypt–90%
Gaza–98.7%
Indonesia–86.1 %
Iran–98%
Iraq–97%
Jordan–92%
Morocco–98.7%
Pakistan–97%
Palestine–99%
Syria–90%
Tajikistan–90%
Turkey–90%
United Arab Emirates–96%
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’–the Islamic House of Peace. Here, there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the madrasses are the only schools, and the Quran is the only word, as in:
Afghanistan–100% Muslim
Saudi Arabia–100% Muslim
Somalia–100% Muslim
Yemen–100% Muslim
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states, the most radical Muslims intimidate, spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims for a variety of reasons. Quote:
“Before I was nine, I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world; and all of us against the infidel.”
It is important to understand that even in countries with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Shari’ah Law. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Quran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate. Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other groups.
…the cruelty in the New Testament…
Such as? The problem here is that you’re just using commie whataboutisms. I’m only entertaining this derailment since it highlights your inability to refute the actual topic. Islam is violence. The opposite is true of Christianity, which entertains violence in defense of life.
tallest skil said: Islam is violence. The opposite is true of Christianity, which entertains violence in defense of life.
You say submitting to God is violence in one sentence and then in the very next sentence you say that submitting to the very same God is the opposite. :sigh:
I'm sorry that you've been led so far from reality with lies and hypocrisies, but in time I'm certain you'll see that your words are wrong, the way most Germans saw that the Nazi's slaughter of Jews was wrong, and Americans saw that the Japanese-American internment camps were wrong.
Not all Muslim are terrorists, but terrorists are Muslim. You European people are welcomed yo open your door to them. US won't until they can figure out the way to screen them. Ask these refugees to go to China. It's closer. By the way, what's wrong with Trump? He's not different in this matter than Japan. Japan never allowed Muslim to enter their country except for business reasons. Islam preaching is not allowed in public there but at your own home and no Missionary is allowed. Go ahead and condemn Japan. Their country, their rules whether you like it ir not.
we aren't Japan. we have the best constitution in the world, and it forbids government getting into bed with religion or discriminating based on religion.
and you're wrong -- we've had Christian terrorists in the US.
lastly, trump is a fucking moron. he has no chance of getting elected because most people aren't that scared and dumb to vote for him.
If you want to keep dicking around with bullshit, that’s your prerogative. Just know that you’re completely and utterly wrong, and it’s wrecking any credibility you would have otherwise had.
I'm sorry that you've been led so far from reality with lies and hypocrisies
And yet you’ve provided absolutely no evidence that I’m wrong, since you can’t, because there isn’t any. No jew will tell you that Jesus is Lord. No mussulman will tell you that Jesus is Lord. No Christian will tell you that Yahweh is god. No mussulman will tell you that Yahweh is god. No jew will tell you that Allah should be followed. No Christian will tel you that Allah will be followed. The Talmud, the Bible, and the Quran explicitly lay out what their respective deities are and are not. They’re not the same.
in time I'm certain you'll see that your words are wrong,
Not only will we not be proven wrong, a few more attacks and we’ll be proven right. For someone who was once so logical, I’m sad to see you now ignore irrefutable evidence when presented it. Islam is only peaceful when it is physically incapable of waging war. During the time of peace, it is perpetually gathering the power for war. Read the fucking Quran.
we have the best constitution in the world, and it forbids government getting into bed with religion or discriminating based on religion.
You don’t have a clue what the Constitution says. It does not apply to foreigners in any way, shape, or form.
It is not only constitutional for individuals or entire GROUPS of foreigners to be barred from entry at any time for any reason, the power is expressly given to the President, Congress, AND the individual states.
he has no chance of getting elected because most people aren't that scared and dumb to vote for him.
Geez, how many people will be on suicide watch on November 9…
and you're wrong -- we've had Christian terrorists in the US.
1) You're 25x more likely to be murdered by a radical Christian than you are radical Muslim on US soil but, hey, let's still go ahead and call all Muslims terrorists and claim they don't believe Jesus is a prophet¡
2) They say ignorance is bliss, and yet all these ignorant people wanting decent people to be murdered don't seem very happy to me.
tallest skil said: And yet you’ve provided absolutely no evidence that I’m wrong, since you can’t, because there isn’t any.
There's a thousand years of recorded history for Islam that prove my words correct at every turn.
No jew will tell you that Jesus is Lord.
Of course not. That's the key difference between Judaism and Christianity. The Christ in Christianty refers to the prophet Jesus Christ son of Mary coming to Earth as the immaculate birth.
No mussulman will tell you that Jesus is Lord.
Sure they will. Jesus is a prophet in Islam. As I stated, the gospel of Jesus is in the Qu'ran.
No Christian will tell you that Yahweh is god. No mussulman will tell you that Yahweh is god.
Sure they will. Yahweh is simply the Hebrew word for god.
No jew will tell you that Allah should be followed. No Christian will tel you that Allah will be followed.
Sure they will. Allah is simply the Arbaic word for god.
Not only will we not be proven wrong, a few more attacks and we’ll be proven right.
And a few more mass shooting attacks in the US by radical Christians and you will have what attitude against Christians? You don't see how hypocrisy because your fear is blinding you.
But, yes, there will be more attacks because there are plenty of people that are afraid, just like you. Unfortunately, it's your words and actions that will bring more terror to this world, not less.
For someone who was once so logical, I’m sad to see you now ignore irrefutable evidence when presented it. Islam is only peaceful when it is physically incapable of waging war.
I've give you all the information you need to understand what the Qu'ran is composed of. If you don't wish to accept that it's an Abrahamic religion that uses the Abrahamic religions before it, then there is nothing I can do but wait as time will make you regret your radical words and actions. But I'm not mad at you. I feel sorry for you for being so easily duped into letting your irrational emotions control you.
During the time of peace, it is perpetually gathering the power for war. Read the fucking Quran
You believe that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is perpetually gathering weapons and you call me illogical. In the US, the ones that perpetually gathering weapons, outside the US gov't, are radicals. In the last 7 years, most of them racist Christians who think Obama is a secret Muslim coming for their guns.
You don’t have a clue what the Constitution says. It does not apply to foreigners in any way, shape, or form.
Sure it does. The 14th Amendment says no state may "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The fact that the Constitution does not specifically use the word ''citizens'' in that part of the amendment gives the Supreme Court a basis to conclude that non-citizens are protected.
But let's say that 14th Amendment didn't exist. You and your radical brethren are even against US citizens who are Muslim.
It is not only constitutional for individuals or entire GROUPS of foreigners to be barred from entry at any time for any reason, the power is expressly given to the President, Congress, AND the individual states.
You can ban groups of people, but you can't ban them sole on the basis of their religion.They could ban all Syrians, but they can't ban just Muslims. If you wish they would ban all Muslims, remove all Muslims who are US citizens from the US, and have them murdered, I truly feel sorry for you, as you are just another victim of terrorism even if you are now one of the ones terrorizing good people and tearing the very fabric of this nation asunder.
There's a thousand years of recorded history for Islam that prove my words correct at every turn.
So nearly a thousand years of warlordism and the slaughter of non-muslims proves that they don’t do that?
Of course not.
So Judaism and Christianity are not the same and do not worship the same god.
Sure they will. Jesus is a prophet in Islam.
Those two sentences contradict, and the first one isn’t correct. So since Jesus is just a prophet and not god, Christianity and Islam do not worship the same god.
Sure they will. Yahweh is simply the Hebrew word for god.
Yahweh, the jewish god, does not behave in the same way as Allah or Jesus.
Sure they will.
You’re just trolling now. Of fucking course they won’t.
And a few more mass shooting attacks in the US by radical Christians and you will have what attitude against Christians?
Read my earlier post on why this is complete bullshit. It’s not Christianity.
You don't see how hypocrisy because your fear is blinding you.
Learn what hypocrisy is. Are you sure you’re actually SolipsismY, formerly SolipsismX, formerly Solipsism? You don’t really seem to be as intelligent as he was. I’m baffled at how this is confusing for him to comprehend.
Unfortunately, it's your words and actions that will bring more terror to this world, not less.
Yeah… the people who say, “Hey, let’s not let the people who want to slaughter every single one of us into this country,” are the ones who will be responsible for the slaughter of their own people. Sure thing.
I've give you all the information you need to understand what the Qu'ran is composed of. If you don’t wish to accept that it’s an Abrahamic religion that uses the Abrahamic religions before it…
Except you’re completely wrong about your statements.
You believe that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is perpetually gathering weapons…
Solipsism would never use a strawman. You’re not him. Can’t be.
Islam and extremism are inseparable. They may not be willing to give up their cushy lives and go pick up a gun–they may not be willing to cut off a guy’s head with their own knife–but if IS rolled into town tomorrow, they wouldn’t take up arms against them, they wouldn’t fight for their Christian and Jewish and Hindu and Sikh and secular neighbors, they wouldn’t stand up and advocate for the people who have payed their welfare and educated their children and healed their sick. They’d stand there and watch them be slaughtered, and they wouldn’t even lose sleep over it. Because that’s what it means to be a Muslim. Not a religion of peace, but a religion of passive indifference to violence committed in your name. You know the difference between a Westerner and a Muslim? Westerners protested the war on terror, they protested intervention, immigration, and they have advocated for and protected their Muslim neighbors. Not all of them, and not every time, but frequently enough to make it obvious that not everyone supports these actions. You know who Muslims have advocated for and protested for?
Themselves. That’s it.
In the US, the ones that perpetually gathering weapons, outside the US gov't, are radicals. In the last 7 years, most of them racist Christians who think Obama is a secret Muslim coming for their guns.
Both sentences are definitionally wrong; the latter is ludicrous.
Sure it does. The 14th Amendment says no state may "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
Within its jurisdiction. Meaning people already here. Meaning there is absolutely zero evidence for your claim that we are forced to take in immigrants.
…gives the Supreme Court a basis to conclude that non-citizens are protected.
And they’ve already ruled that they’re not.
You can ban groups of people, but you can't ban them sole on the basis of their religion.
OF COURSE YOU CAN. Constitutional protections DO. NOT. APPLY. TO. FOREIGNERS.
8 US Code § 1182 (Section a. Number 10, Paragraph f.)
Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, the president may, by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
Article 6 Paragraph 3 of the US Constitution regarding “no religious test” refers specifically and only to the election of Congress, not to immigration.
If you wish they would ban all Muslims, remove all Muslims who are US citizens from the US, and have them murdered, I truly feel sorry for you
Jobs wasn't a Muslim. Banksy is off the reservation.
In what way? A large percentage of vocal, bigoted Americans don't want to let any Syrian refugees in the country for fear that one could be a terrorist.
Furthmore, Jobs not being Muslim makes his point and of those that aren't acting like pussies when it comes to helping those in need, because the offspring of immigrants are very likely to adapt to the American culture.
I can't imagine rational people would be opposed to controlled immigration that properly vets the immigrant. Uncontrolled illegal immigration, as is common in California (for example) is not allowed anywhere else in the world. Simply opening the doors to thousands of refugees from nations where the majority of terrorist activity originates could be a problem, no?
Also, shouldn't those hundreds of thousands of able-bodied young men fleeing Syria be instead fighting to repel Islamic State? I don't know about you, but I'd want to fight and kill an unwelcome invading army to protect my way of life. How would Germany (since they've allowed in one million refugees now) know for sure if there were not dozens, or hundreds of stealth ISIS members settling among their populace?
Those who would give up Essential Libertyto purchase a little Temporary Safety,deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Thomas Jefferson
America has become so scared with all this terrorism bullshit, it has gotten to the point that is sad to see the level of Cowerness of this nation. Everybody is starting to give up their freedom in exchange for a false sense of security and they are going to lose both. This country wasn't founded by cowers we need to keep it that way. We should not rely on the government for security. We all know the police always gets there after the crime has been commited and everyone is dead. We must protect our right and not be cowers and help those who need it. All these cowers and their comments about terrorist filtering into the U S and not helping those who need it because of that fear, are just signs the the terrorist are winning. I don't know about the north but here in the south we are arm a ready for war with any terrorist who dares challenge our freedom and way of life. Live free or die protecting our freedom. All cowers can go to Cuba. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Benjamin Franklin, but hey. I have another one, too.
The US is not a nation of immigrants. It is a nation that was founded by settlers–very different from immigrants in that they establish a new polity rather than arrive in an existing one–and that has been occupied since by the descendants of those settlers and of immigrants who came later but who assimilated into the American nation. Americans, therefore, are under no moral obligation to accept anyone on the spurious grounds that “everyone is essentially an immigrant”. Americans own America, so to speak, and may admit or refuse entry to outsiders on whatever grounds they see fit.
Rational people would support, at the very least, a pause in immigration right now. Mrs. Butcher of San Bernardino was more throughly vetted than the "refugees" are. That ended well.
Right... Only in your mind is that rational. Are you going to stop people coming on Tourist Visa too? You don't need to be a god damn refugee or immigrant to commit a crime and they're not vetted anywhere close to refugees or most immigrants.
So, the whole argument line is pure shit.
All but one of the Paris attackers were french born and not on any no fly list and could have come to the US and did a rampage here, no problem. All they needed to do is find a gun, which is even easier in the US than in France.
You want to fracking close the border to everyone French that comes to visit, to everyone Muslim that comes from a third party country that doesn't even need a visa right now?
Good luck in getting this info.... from a "potential" terrorist. Why would they even reveal it?
How would you even know that? Many muslims are converts and don't even have arab ancestry. They may come from countries like India with huge non-muslim populations.
Are you going to do a global muslim registry when the US can't even track criminals inside its own borders?
"Simple solutions" to hard problems don't work because real life is never that simple.
Trumpy boy, the congenital moron who "understand the world" (sic) would make a massive mess of it like that other cretin who was always convinced he was right, Georgie boy.
I think Tallest Skil is 100% accurate regarding comments about the literal interpretation on the Quran. Islam is mostly a religion of violence according to the text. When you compare the violence of the Bible you are referring to a closed end historical record in the Old Testament. The New Testament is all about love thy neighbor and the golden rule.
Contrasting, the violence in the Quran, it is open ended and killing, subjugating and enslaving of nonbelievers is fully applicable for current times. As Tallest commented, Muslims who do not believe in killing of infidels are not really Muslims, just like people who never read the Bible, follow its teachings or attend church are not really Christians, even though they may claim to be.
That said, I do disagree with Tallest's evangelistic comments regarding Christianity. I used to be a Christian as a youth, but have since decided that all religions are simply make believe, however if Catholics, Christians and Jews want to go around building hospitals, then I'm all for them.
I think Tallest Skil is 100% accurate regarding comments about the literal interpretation on the Quran. Islam is mostly a religion of violence according to the text. When you compare the violence of the Bible you are referring to a closed end historical record in the Old Testament. The New Testament is all about love thy neighbor and the golden rule.
Contrasting, the violence in the Quran, it is open ended and killing, subjugating and enslaving of nonbelievers is fully applicable for current times. As Tallest commented, Muslims who do not believe in killing of infidels are not really Muslims, just like people who never read the Bible, follow its teachings or attend church are not really Christians, even though they may claim to be.
That said, I do disagree with Tallest's evangelistic comments regarding Christianity. I used to be a Christian as a youth, but have since decided that all religions are simply make believe, however if Catholics, Christians and Jews want to go around building hospitals, then I'm all for them.
As I've heard told before, the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Reformation in that religion, as had happened in the Catholic church. Without that schism in Islamic philosophy, all of the historically violent aspects have remained.
Hey, good for you for recognizing the distinction.
SpamSandwich said: As I've heard told before, the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Reformation in that religion, as had happened in the Catholic church.
But that’s not what the Reformation was. There were no “historically violent aspects” of Christianity prior to the Protestants realizing, “Hey, now that we have printing presses and can get Bibles out to the masses, we’re noticing that the Papacy is sort of… completely ignoring literally everything the Bible says. Maybe we should do something about that…”
The hanging, D&Qing, burning at the stake, etc. of apostates (much less heretics) is a Catholic affectation, not a Christian one. Jesus never taught any of that, nor did the apostles later call for it.
The reformation was not “modernizing” as is so readily claimed, but “traditionalizing”–going back to following what the Bible actually says instead of inventing newer nonsense.
Without that schism in Islamic philosophy…
The Sunni/Shia split was only political, but what about Nation Of Islam? That counts as a “schism”, right? It’s certainly a radical change in philosophy, but toward more violence, I guess.
Hey, good for you for recognizing the distinction.
SpamSandwich said: As I've heard told before, the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Reformation in that religion, as had happened in the Catholic church.
But that’s not what the Reformation was. There were no “historically violent aspects” of Christianity prior to the Protestants realizing, “Hey, now that we have printing presses and can get Bibles out to the masses, we’re noticing that the Papacy is sort of… completely ignoring literally everything the Bible says. Maybe we should do something about that…”
The hanging, D&Qing, burning at the stake, etc. of apostates (much less heretics) is a Catholic affectation, not a Christian one. Jesus never taught any of that, nor did the apostles later call for it.
The reformation was not “modernizing” as is so readily claimed, but “traditionalizing”–going back to following what the Bible actually says instead of inventing newer nonsense.
Without that schism in Islamic philosophy…
The Sunni/Shia split was only political, but what about Nation Of Islam? That counts as a “schism”, right? It’s certainly a radical change in philosophy, but toward more violence, I guess.
I think that because there have been no serious challenges to the Islamic religion from within, this is what has kept the philosophy in The Dark Ages (in more ways than one).
C'mon, you guys, the reformation in Islam is happening right in front of your eyes and you're not seeing it, blinded as you are by fear and paranoia.
The Thirty Years War in 17th century Europe was only the beginning of the catastophe necessary to start freeing humanity from the dead hand of Manicheism that is Rome, as much as we all welcome the new Franciscan reforms. (But the dead hand is still there, over women's bodies in particular.) So how long are you going to grant Islam to get rid of its medievalism?
Bear in mind that Zionists are still stuck in Moses's if not Abraham's era, carving out a territory belonging to Canaanites and Philistines (Palestinians) because Yahweh promised his chosen people this Promised Land.
So the reactionary fundamentalists like IS have the mindshare right now, essentially fighting against and discrediting the new cosmopolitan Muslims who are our fellow citizens, and the refugees whom our predatory Mid-East invasions have created.
Check out the names on Apple patents. Some of them are lists of solid exotic, non-Yankee names. I wonder how many belong to Muslims.
By the way, the Reformation in Christianity won't be near completed until the Gnostics suppressed in the 400s (?) are rehabilitated as the true heirs to the teachings of the guru Jesua. Their history reveals that he was transmitting the ancient shamanic practices of ecstatic enlightenment. Official Christianity from Rome was designed to eliminate these pathways to individual spiritual self-knowledge, the Mystery "religions" of the Near East such as that practiced at Eleusis, or those among the Canaanites.. These pathways are still under a prohibition throughout the world, except among isolated groups such as the Sufis attached to Islam, to the Native American peyoteros in the US and Mexico, the ayahuasceros in the Amazon, and a few others.
C'mon, you guys, the reformation in Islam is happening right in front of your eyes and you're not seeing it, blinded as you are by fear and paranoia.
So it’s reforming by doing exactly what the book says to do?
cosmopolitan Muslims
Islam isn’t a cosmopolitan religion, though. If anything, it’s the polar opposite.
These pathways are still under a prohibition throughout the world, except among isolated groups such as the Sufis attached to Islam, to the Native American peyoteros in the US and Mexico, the ayahuasceros in the Amazon, and a few others
C'mon, you guys, the reformation in Islam is happening right in front of your eyes and you're not seeing it, blinded as you are by fear and paranoia.
So it’s reforming by doing exactly what the book says to do?
cosmopolitan Muslims
Islam isn’t a cosmopolitan religion, though. If anything, it’s the polar opposite.
These pathways are still under a prohibition throughout the world, except among isolated groups such as the Sufis attached to Islam, to the Native American peyoteros in the US and Mexico, the ayahuasceros in the Amazon, and a few others
This all sounds very The Man From Earth-y.
Well, I had in mind the separation of religion from civil society that has been occurring in many areas such as Turkey since the 1920s and Iran a bit earlier, until the reaction against the US-backed Shah (as well as the the deposing of Mossedegh.)
We're in a period of reaction agaist secularity and liberalization, which is natural, but the trend among the young educated and internationalized is clearly away from fundamentalism.
The dark age paranoia of Rome offered nothing to compare with Islam's enthusiasm for learning. When Gnosticism again showed up in the south of France among the Albigensians, it was exterminated as a heresy.
This mini-crusade alone guaranteed that the West would embark on a homicidal/suicidal path and shift its paranoia to Islam, thus the Crusades with a capital C.
Well, I had in mind the separation of religion from civil society that has been occurring in many areas such as Turkey since the 1920s and Iran a bit earlier, until the reaction against the US-backed Shah (as well as the the deposing of Mossedegh.)
Oh, you mean seeing more Muslim countries set up ostensibly secular governments? Sure it’s a possibility, but that’s just repression of the religious ideology rather than a reworking of it.
Something tells me that any attempt to change the actual doctrines of Islam at this point would simply split the religion (20/80) and cause an Islamic Civil War the likes of which we’ve never seen.
Hmm. My memory of Arabian scholars regarded the greatest amount of achievement as being pre-Islam, but I don’t have the literature handy to recheck that.
Comments
No.
Complete bullshit.
Literally nothing grew into this. This is how it has been since the foundation.
Read the fucking Quran. They all believe the same thing. They all ACT on the same thing.
Peace, Violence, & Abrogation
Muslims in the West are quick to point to passages such as Quran 109:6 (“You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion”) and 2:256 (“There is no compulsion in religion”) as evidence that Islam is a religion of peace. When confronted with harsher passages such as 9:5 (“Slay the idolaters wherever you find them”) and 9:29 (“Fight those who believe not in Allah”), Westernized Muslims interpret these verses in light of the more peaceful teachings of the Quran, typically saying something like: “Well, the Quran can’t be commanding us to kill unbelievers, since it says that there’s no compulsion in religion.”
Hence, Westernized Muslims pick the verses of the Quran they find most attractive, and they use these verses to sanitize the rest of the Quran. But is this the correct way to interpret the Quran? Unfortunately, the answer is no. The Quran presents its own method of interpretation—the Doctrine of Abrogation.
Whatever verse we shall abrogate, or cause [thee] to forget, we will bring a better than it, or one like unto it. Dost thou not know that God is almighty?
Quran 2:106
When We substitute one revelation for another—and God knows best what He reveals (in stages)—they say, “Thou art but a forger”: but most of them understand not.
Quran 16:101
According to the Quran, then, when Muslims are faced with conflicting commands, they aren’t supposed to pick the one they like best. Rather, they are to go to history and see which verse was revealed last. Whichever verse came last is said to abrogate (or cancel) earlier revelations.
What happens when we apply this methodology to Quranic verses on peace and violence?
When we turn to Islam’s theological sources and historical writings (Quran, Hadith, Sira, and Tafsir), we find that there are three stages in the call to Jihad, depending on the status of Muslims in a society.
STAGE ONE
When Muslims are completely outnumbered and can’t possibly win a physical confrontation with unbelievers, they are to live in peace with non-Muslims and preach a message of tolerance. We see an example of this stage when Muhammad and his followers were a persecuted minority in Mecca. Since the Muslims were entirely outnumbered, the revelations Muhammad received during this stage (e.g. “You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion”) called for religious tolerance and proclaimed a future punishment (rather than a worldly punishment) for unbelievers.
STAGE TWO
When there are enough Muslims and resources to defend the Islamic community, Muslims are called to engage in defensive Jihad. Thus, when Muhammad had formed alliances with various groups outside Mecca and the Muslim community had become large enough to begin fighting, Muhammad received Quran 22:39-40:
Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them; Those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: our Lord is Allah…
Although Muslims in the West often pretend that Islam only allows defensive fighting, later revelations show otherwise.
STAGE THREE
When Muslims establish a majority and achieve political power in an area, they are commanded to engage in offensive Jihad. Hence, once Mecca and Arabia were under Muhammad’s control, he received the call the fight all unbelievers. In Surah 9:29, we read:
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Notice that this verse doesn’t order Muslims to fight oppressors, but to fight those who don’t believe in Islam (including the “People of the Book”—Jews and Christians).
Not surprisingly, we find similar commands in Islam’s most trusted collections of ahadith (traditions containing Muhammad’s teachings).
Muhammad said: “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illallah, Allah will save his property and his life from me.”
Sahih al-Bukhari 6924
Muhammad said: “I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah.”
Sahih Muslim 30
Here again, the criterion for fighting people is that the people believe something other than Islam.
It’s clear, then, that when Muslims rose to power, peaceful verses of the Quran were abrogated by verses commanding Muslims to fight people based on their beliefs. Islam’s greatest scholars acknowledge this. For instance, Ibn Kathir (Islam’s greatest commentator on the Quran) sums up Stage Three as follows: “Therefore all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the Jizyah, they should be fought till they are killed.”
When Muslims Reach Stage Three
Abrogation also accounts for shifting attitudes regarding Jews and Christians in the Quran. While Muslims are to be friendly to Jews and Christians when the former are outnumbered, the Islamic position changes when Muslims reach Stage Three, at which point Christians and Jews are to recognize their inferior status and pay the Jizyah (a payment made to Muslims in exchange for not being killed by them). Consider some of Muhammad’s later teachings about Christians and Jews:
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Quran 5:51
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Quran 9:30
Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein. They are the worst of creatures.
Quran 98:6
Muhammad said: “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.”
Sahih Muslim 4366
Muhammad said: “Do not give the People of the Book the greeting first. Force them to the narrowest part of the road.”
Al-Bukhari, Al-Adab al-Mufrad 1103
Needless to say, these teachings can hardly be considered peaceful or tolerant.
Muslims in the West
Since Muhammad obviously commanded his followers to fight unbelievers (simply for being unbelievers), why do Muslims in the West deny this? Here we must turn to Surah 3:28, which reads:
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security.
According to this verse (which uses a variation of the word Taqiyya, meaning “concealment”), Muslims are not allowed to be friends with non-Muslims. However, if Muslims feel threatened by a stronger adversary, they are allowed to pretend to be friendly. Ibn Kathir comments: “In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly but never inwardly.” Abu Darda, one of Muhammad’s companions, put it this way: “We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.”
Assessment
Is Islam a religion of peace? No. Islam is a religion that pretends to be peaceful when Muslims are too weak to win a war. When Islam is dominant, Muslims are commanded to subjugate or kill everyone around them. (Just look at how non-Muslims are treated in Muslim countries; compare this constant abuse and persecution with what is being proclaimed about “peaceful” Islam by Westernized Muslims.)
Of course, there are many Muslims who aren’t violent. Many Muslims in the West love peace and tolerance. But they didn’t get these values from Islam. They got them from the West, and now they’re reinterpreting Islam based on their Western values. For dedicated Muslims, however, there are only two possible situations: (1) fighting unbelievers, and (2) pretending to be peaceful while preparing to fight unbelievers. Either way, conquering the world in the name of Allah is always the goal.
~:~
As long as the Muslim population remains under 2% in any given country, they will, for the most part, be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States–0.6%
Australia–1.5%
Canada–1.9%
China–1.8%
Italy–1.5%
Norway–1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize to other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from prisons and street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark–2%
Germany–3.7%
United Kingdom–2.7%
Spain–4%
Thailand–4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves–along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France–8%
Philippines–5%
Sweden–5%
Switzerland–4.3%
The Netherlands–5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago–5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Shari'ah, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Shari'ah law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Is1am and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:
Guyana–10%
India–13.4%
Israel–16%
Kenya–10%
Russia–15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, as in:
Ethiopia–32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, as in:
Bosnia–40%
Chad–53.1%
Lebanon–59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of nonbelievers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Shari’ah Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels, as in:
Albania–70%
Malaysia–60.4%
Qatar–77.5%
Sudan–70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, as has been experienced–and in some ways is ongoing–in:
Bangladesh–83%
Egypt–90%
Gaza–98.7%
Indonesia–86.1 %
Iran–98%
Iraq–97%
Jordan–92%
Morocco–98.7%
Pakistan–97%
Palestine–99%
Syria–90%
Tajikistan–90%
Turkey–90%
United Arab Emirates–96%
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’–the Islamic House of Peace. Here, there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the madrasses are the only schools, and the Quran is the only word, as in:
Afghanistan–100% Muslim
Saudi Arabia–100% Muslim
Somalia–100% Muslim
Yemen–100% Muslim
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states, the most radical Muslims intimidate, spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims for a variety of reasons. Quote:
“Before I was nine, I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world; and all of us against the infidel.”
It is important to understand that even in countries with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Shari’ah Law. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Quran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate. Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other groups.
Such as? The problem here is that you’re just using commie whataboutisms. I’m only entertaining this derailment since it highlights your inability to refute the actual topic. Islam is violence. The opposite is true of Christianity, which entertains violence in defense of life.I'm sorry that you've been led so far from reality with lies and hypocrisies, but in time I'm certain you'll see that your words are wrong, the way most Germans saw that the Nazi's slaughter of Jews was wrong, and Americans saw that the Japanese-American internment camps were wrong.
and you're wrong -- we've had Christian terrorists in the US.
lastly, trump is a fucking moron. he has no chance of getting elected because most people aren't that scared and dumb to vote for him.
And yet you’ve provided absolutely no evidence that I’m wrong, since you can’t, because there isn’t any. No jew will tell you that Jesus is Lord. No mussulman will tell you that Jesus is Lord. No Christian will tell you that Yahweh is god. No mussulman will tell you that Yahweh is god. No jew will tell you that Allah should be followed. No Christian will tel you that Allah will be followed. The Talmud, the Bible, and the Quran explicitly lay out what their respective deities are and are not. They’re not the same.
Not only will we not be proven wrong, a few more attacks and we’ll be proven right. For someone who was once so logical, I’m sad to see you now ignore irrefutable evidence when presented it. Islam is only peaceful when it is physically incapable of waging war. During the time of peace, it is perpetually gathering the power for war. Read the fucking Quran.
You don’t have a clue what the Constitution says. It does not apply to foreigners in any way, shape, or form. It is not only constitutional for individuals or entire GROUPS of foreigners to be barred from entry at any time for any reason, the power is expressly given to the President, Congress, AND the individual states.Geez, how many people will be on suicide watch on November 9…
2) They say ignorance is bliss, and yet all these ignorant people wanting decent people to be murdered don't seem very happy to me.
Of course not. That's the key difference between Judaism and Christianity. The Christ in Christianty refers to the prophet Jesus Christ son of Mary coming to Earth as the immaculate birth.
Sure they will. Jesus is a prophet in Islam. As I stated, the gospel of Jesus is in the Qu'ran.
Sure they will. Yahweh is simply the Hebrew word for god. Sure they will. Allah is simply the Arbaic word for god.
And a few more mass shooting attacks in the US by radical Christians and you will have what attitude against Christians? You don't see how hypocrisy because your fear is blinding you.
But, yes, there will be more attacks because there are plenty of people that are afraid, just like you. Unfortunately, it's your words and actions that will bring more terror to this world, not less.
I've give you all the information you need to understand what the Qu'ran is composed of. If you don't wish to accept that it's an Abrahamic religion that uses the Abrahamic religions before it, then there is nothing I can do but wait as time will make you regret your radical words and actions. But I'm not mad at you. I feel sorry for you for being so easily duped into letting your irrational emotions control you.
You believe that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is perpetually gathering weapons and you call me illogical. In the US, the ones that perpetually gathering weapons, outside the US gov't, are radicals. In the last 7 years, most of them racist Christians who think Obama is a secret Muslim coming for their guns.
Sure it does. The 14th Amendment says no state may "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The fact that the Constitution does not specifically use the word ''citizens'' in that part of the amendment gives the Supreme Court a basis to conclude that non-citizens are protected. But let's say that 14th Amendment didn't exist. You and your radical brethren are even against US citizens who are Muslim.
You can ban groups of people, but you can't ban them sole on the basis of their religion.They could ban all Syrians, but they can't ban just Muslims. If you wish they would ban all Muslims, remove all Muslims who are US citizens from the US, and have them murdered, I truly feel sorry for you, as you are just another victim of terrorism even if you are now one of the ones terrorizing good people and tearing the very fabric of this nation asunder.
Read my earlier post on why this is complete bullshit. It’s not Christianity.
Learn what hypocrisy is. Are you sure you’re actually SolipsismY, formerly SolipsismX, formerly Solipsism? You don’t really seem to be as intelligent as he was. I’m baffled at how this is confusing for him to comprehend.
Yeah… the people who say, “Hey, let’s not let the people who want to slaughter every single one of us into this country,” are the ones who will be responsible for the slaughter of their own people. Sure thing.Except you’re completely wrong about your statements.Solipsism would never use a strawman. You’re not him. Can’t be.
Islam and extremism are inseparable. They may not be willing to give up their cushy lives and go pick up a gun–they may not be willing to cut off a guy’s head with their own knife–but if IS rolled into town tomorrow, they wouldn’t take up arms against them, they wouldn’t fight for their Christian and Jewish and Hindu and Sikh and secular neighbors, they wouldn’t stand up and advocate for the people who have payed their welfare and educated their children and healed their sick. They’d stand there and watch them be slaughtered, and they wouldn’t even lose sleep over it. Because that’s what it means to be a Muslim. Not a religion of peace, but a religion of passive indifference to violence committed in your name. You know the difference between a Westerner and a Muslim? Westerners protested the war on terror, they protested intervention, immigration, and they have advocated for and protected their Muslim neighbors. Not all of them, and not every time, but frequently enough to make it obvious that not everyone supports these actions. You know who Muslims have advocated for and protested for?
Themselves. That’s it.
Both sentences are definitionally wrong; the latter is ludicrous.Within its jurisdiction. Meaning people already here. Meaning there is absolutely zero evidence for your claim that we are forced to take in immigrants.And they’ve already ruled that they’re not.
OF COURSE YOU CAN. Constitutional protections DO. NOT. APPLY. TO. FOREIGNERS.
Thomas Jefferson
America has become so scared with all this terrorism bullshit, it has gotten to the point that is sad to see the level of Cowerness of this nation. Everybody is starting to give up their freedom in exchange for a false sense of security and they are going to lose both. This country wasn't founded by cowers we need to keep it that way. We should not rely on the government for security. We all know the police always gets there after the crime has been commited and everyone is dead. We must protect our right and not be cowers and help those who need it. All these cowers and their comments about terrorist filtering into the U S and not helping those who need it because of that fear, are just signs the the terrorist are winning. I don't know about the north but here in the south we are arm a ready for war with any terrorist who dares challenge our freedom and way of life. Live free or die protecting our freedom. All cowers can go to Cuba. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave.
The US is not a nation of immigrants. It is a nation that was founded by settlers–very different from immigrants in that they establish a new polity rather than arrive in an existing one–and that has been occupied since by the descendants of those settlers and of immigrants who came later but who assimilated into the American nation. Americans, therefore, are under no moral obligation to accept anyone on the spurious grounds that “everyone is essentially an immigrant”. Americans own America, so to speak, and may admit or refuse entry to outsiders on whatever grounds they see fit.
Sam Huntington
Are you going to stop people coming on Tourist Visa too?
You don't need to be a god damn refugee or immigrant to commit a crime and they're not vetted anywhere close to refugees or most immigrants.
So, the whole argument line is pure shit.
All but one of the Paris attackers were french born and not on any no fly list and could have come to the US and did a rampage here, no problem. All they needed to do is find a gun, which is even easier in the US than in France.
You want to fracking close the border to everyone French that comes to visit, to everyone Muslim that comes from a third party country that doesn't even need a visa right now?
Good luck in getting this info.... from a "potential" terrorist. Why would they even reveal it?
How would you even know that? Many muslims are converts and don't even have arab ancestry. They may come from countries like India with huge non-muslim populations.
Are you going to do a global muslim registry when the US can't even track criminals inside its own borders?
"Simple solutions" to hard problems don't work because real life is never that simple.
Trumpy boy, the congenital moron who "understand the world" (sic) would make a massive mess of it like that other cretin who was always convinced he was right, Georgie boy.
You're a god damn liar. You were NEVER a democrat, except in the early 1960s maybe.
Contrasting, the violence in the Quran, it is open ended and killing, subjugating and enslaving of nonbelievers is fully applicable for current times. As Tallest commented, Muslims who do not believe in killing of infidels are not really Muslims, just like people who never read the Bible, follow its teachings or attend church are not really Christians, even though they may claim to be.
That said, I do disagree with Tallest's evangelistic comments regarding Christianity. I used to be a Christian as a youth, but have since decided that all religions are simply make believe, however if Catholics, Christians and Jews want to go around building hospitals, then I'm all for them.
The hanging, D&Qing, burning at the stake, etc. of apostates (much less heretics) is a Catholic affectation, not a Christian one. Jesus never taught any of that, nor did the apostles later call for it.
The reformation was not “modernizing” as is so readily claimed, but “traditionalizing”–going back to following what the Bible actually says instead of inventing newer nonsense.
The Sunni/Shia split was only political, but what about Nation Of Islam? That counts as a “schism”, right? It’s certainly a radical change in philosophy, but toward more violence, I guess.
The Thirty Years War in 17th century Europe was only the beginning of the catastophe necessary to start freeing humanity from the dead hand of Manicheism that is Rome, as much as we all welcome the new Franciscan reforms. (But the dead hand is still there, over women's bodies in particular.) So how long are you going to grant Islam to get rid of its medievalism?
Bear in mind that Zionists are still stuck in Moses's if not Abraham's era, carving out a territory belonging to Canaanites and Philistines (Palestinians) because Yahweh promised his chosen people this Promised Land.
So the reactionary fundamentalists like IS have the mindshare right now, essentially fighting against and discrediting the new cosmopolitan Muslims who are our fellow citizens, and the refugees whom our predatory Mid-East invasions have created.
Check out the names on Apple patents. Some of them are lists of solid exotic, non-Yankee names. I wonder how many belong to Muslims.
By the way, the Reformation in Christianity won't be near completed until the Gnostics suppressed in the 400s (?) are rehabilitated as the true heirs to the teachings of the guru Jesua. Their history reveals that he was transmitting the ancient shamanic practices of ecstatic enlightenment. Official Christianity from Rome was designed to eliminate these pathways to individual spiritual self-knowledge, the Mystery "religions" of the Near East such as that practiced at Eleusis, or those among the Canaanites.. These pathways are still under a prohibition throughout the world, except among isolated groups such as the Sufis attached to Islam, to the Native American peyoteros in the US and Mexico, the ayahuasceros in the Amazon, and a few others.
This all sounds very The Man From Earth-y.
We're in a period of reaction agaist secularity and liberalization, which is natural, but the trend among the young educated and internationalized is clearly away from fundamentalism.
Then bearing on the inherent cosmopolitan character of Islam is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
The dark age paranoia of Rome offered nothing to compare with Islam's enthusiasm for learning. When Gnosticism again showed up in the south of France among the Albigensians, it was exterminated as a heresy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
This mini-crusade alone guaranteed that the West would embark on a homicidal/suicidal path and shift its paranoia to Islam, thus the Crusades with a capital C.
Something tells me that any attempt to change the actual doctrines of Islam at this point would simply split the religion (20/80) and cause an Islamic Civil War the likes of which we’ve never seen.
Hmm. My memory of Arabian scholars regarded the greatest amount of achievement as being pre-Islam, but I don’t have the literature handy to recheck that.