Putting aside the fact the guy is a colossal bigot, what's wrong with trying to encourage bringing industry home?
It's stupidly idealistic to say have it done 100% by tomorrow, but something like "50% USA-based profit has to come from USA-manufactured goods by 2023" or something is more realistic, and impose a tax penalty for those that don't - the proceeds of which go towards aiding in funding US-based manufacturing.
HE never fracking has any plan; what's wrong this, what's wrong that. That's all people say about the crap he says.
His description of the actual issue is wrong, and his solution is IMPOSSIBLE.
Apple already spends its money in the states; that's were its highest paying jobs are. That's where a lot of profits are made; more would be repatriated with a different tax structure. Repatriating profits would give a hell of a lot more money than the little money/jobs that would come from final assembly in the US (which would undoubtedly be done by robots...)
Dumbass Trump realizes that he's asking for minimum wage jobs for highly technically proficient people; people that are already in high demand (thus paid at least 4-5 times minimum wages). So, again.. IMPOSSIBLE.
Protectionism, or incentives (either are usually not allowed by WTO) are all bad for business; toupet man trump should know that... He's just feeding those chumps who support his total desingenious BS.
Also, final assembly in China is just a small part of the BOM, countless other parts are done oversees and are not coming back.
Perfect example of how Trump cannot think (nor think things through). Does he seriously believe that only Apple makes electronics in China? So he'll be forcing all the other brands to make there in the US as well. Not that this clown is going to make it through the primaries, mind you, but it's pretty obvious he hasn't thought for even a single second what that would do to the price of all electronics.
For once, however, I can say with confidence that this is not because he is stupid. It's because he is showing everyone, as he constantly does, that he is rich and doesn't care about YOU. Trump's not stupid ... it's anyone who supports him and isn't a multi-millionaire that's stupid.
Trump talks on a very very low level emotional level. Are the voters going to respond to that ? If he makes it as the Republican leader, they deserve the loss in the presidential election which could be the result.
Putting aside the fact the guy is a colossal bigot, what's wrong with trying to encourage bringing industry home?
It's stupidly idealistic to say have it done 100% by tomorrow, but something like "50% USA-based profit has to come from USA-manufactured goods by 2023" or something is more realistic, and impose a tax penalty for those that don't - the proceeds of which go towards aiding in funding US-based manufacturing.
Placing onerous requirements will just drive more companies away from the US. Our tax code already does that enough. Making it easier for American companies to bring overseas profits back home, and lowering the corporate tax rate to attract more foreign investment in the US would do more to create jobs. But those are more abstract, and so are harder to sell politically, particularly when one party's solution to every problem is to raise taxes and spend more money on it, and the other party is more concerned with social issues that have already been decided.
Unlike the other parties' solution to cut taxes and raise spending AT THE SAME TIME (see Bush years). I always find it funny that people say democrats raise taxes when it's clear they haven't in a hell of a long time. Not cutting taxes when you have to pay your bills is NOT RAISING TAXES; the narrative the GOP has been running since the 1980s.
Both party have cut taxes mostly on the richest, the democrat have just done it a lot less.
The way its done is you give a tax cut that in theory applies to all, but in fact 90% of the tax savings go to the top of the rung. 80% see the little tax savings and they don't understand the full consequences of them on the overall economy. This is justified through good ol' trickle down... Even if it's been discredited to death.
The outrageous thing here is the government is running a deficit; so in fact, the state borrows to give back that money as tax cuts to the top rung in tax cuts... And everyone pays for it... which is even more incredible. Especially since trickled down had been an abject failure, that money the state doesn't get has a much smaller effect on the overall economy when the top 5% gets it than if it kept it (the leverage effect is smaller).
You guys saying he doesn't know what he's talking about are missing the bigger picture. He doesn't need to say things that are plausible or even possible. He just needs to say things that stupid people will think are great so he can up his poll count. There's no shortage of stupid people it would seem.
There is actually a limit. As any psychologist can explain, the bell curve that shows the IQ for any given sample of people has a median of 100 so exactly half lie on the left hand side of the curve with an IQ <100.
The problem is that not everyone votes, maybe the stupid people vote more (Bush in power seems to demonstrate this).
Secondly, being a delusion twit is not limited to low IQ; some of the most deluded people I know are otherwise fairly intelligent by most measures that can be tested.
Thirdly, IQ doesn't necessarily measure all aspects of intelligence and certainly doesn't measure how information is filtered by our biases before it is assessed. It also doesn't measure ethics, empathy, etc.
Someone highly rational may believe enslaving people is great for his business (if in his head blacks/christians/whatever are sub-human and not worth much... )
Trump continues to prove he has succeeded because his fathers great wealth, which he has now inherited, has allowed him to make huge mistakes with no true consequences. He has been able to go bankrupt over and over and turn around and secure massive loans. He clearly has no idea how business works based on his comments. He is no Bill Gates or Steve Jobs who build something from nothing and changed the world. Imagine what they could have done if their parents could give them a small loan for a Million $. Maybe he should first try forcing the Trump companies he controls to manufacturer in the US before making ridiculous statements for headlines.
He did not say he would "force" Apple to do anything. There are many appropriate ways to "get" companies to use American labor - assuming they are available. Tim Cook says they aren't. Others say they are here. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. The tax, regulatory and union environment in the US discourage companies from expanding in the US. Trump might be able to influence some of the needed changes for Apple to build more computers in the US.
Finally somebody else to set the record straight. At no point did he imply he was going to "force" Apple to manufacture in the US.
Secondly, Steve Jobs appealed to Obama to help him with manufacturing and apparently Obama was either so disinterested with Jobs' requests that Jobs himself switched off any Obama support from that point forward. (I believe this was referenced in Jobs' book)
Actually, this isn't very exciting. It's just Trump's usual demagoguery with an Apple twist to it, and the only thing that surprises me is that he took so long to get around to dissing Apple's operational strategy. Trump's fawning supporters are by and large xenophobes, and the reality that Apple derives the majority of its revenues from sales outside the U.S. these days is a concept they wouldn't even comprehend.
All of this for a blowhart who employs and pays minimum wages to the staff who clean, maintain and manage his hotels and casinos. Maybe he should worry more about providing a living wage to those who work for him, instead of spouting total nonsense. What a bleeping moron.
Trump owns and has built a lot of buildings, but unlike Apple's (OK, Foxconn's, but now we're splitting hairs) factories, I don't recall any having ever installed suicide nets.
If Donald Trump is to win, I have fear that US economy will go the other direction and in turn affecting global economy. The world has changed much and realising the globalised economy is important.
I've seen many progressives and liberals who are loudly opposed to globalization.
He did not say he would "force" Apple to do anything. There are many appropriate ways to "get" companies to use American labor - assuming they are available. Tim Cook says they aren't. Others say they are here. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. The tax, regulatory and union environment in the US discourage companies from expanding in the US. Trump might be able to influence some of the needed changes for Apple to build more computers in the US.
Finally somebody else to set the record straight. At no point did he imply he was going to "force" Apple to manufacture in the US.
Secondly, Steve Jobs appealed to Obama to help him with manufacturing and apparently Obama was either so disinterested with Jobs' requests that Jobs himself switched off any Obama support from that point forward. (I believe this was referenced in Jobs' book)
Right... We heard fracking wrong ... My as well quote Jobs here hey bud (holding it wrong.. (sic))(. No, we heard it right, just like we heard all the shit he said before.
I'm surprised by how many unpatriotic comments are on this site. Brazil forced Apple to do it and they did. Apple makes mac pros here. Motorola made a phone here a few years ago (before the whole google fiasco). It can be done, especially in this age of robotics. Instead of wasting money on buybacks - spend $100 billion making a few automated robotic factories. Look at Tesla - it's domestic as much as possible and will bring the batteries with the gigafactory. It would add good jobs (not menial ones), improve the domestic supply base etc. Its a great idea, we just lack leadership. Companies will do whatever the government forces them to do if they want to stay in business.
He did not say he would "force" Apple to do anything. There are many appropriate ways to "get" companies to use American labor - assuming they are available. Tim Cook says they aren't. Others say they are here. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. The tax, regulatory and union environment in the US discourage companies from expanding in the US. Trump might be able to influence some of the needed changes for Apple to build more computers in the US.
Finally somebody else to set the record straight. At no point did he imply he was going to "force" Apple to manufacture in the US.
Secondly, Steve Jobs appealed to Obama to help him with manufacturing and apparently Obama was either so disinterested with Jobs' requests that Jobs himself switched off any Obama support from that point forward. (I believe this was referenced in Jobs' book)
Whether he wants to force Apple to or get Apple to, it's still a hopelessly stupid idea to have baited the poor audience with.
secondly, you're making shit up and getting it backwards with Jobs and Obama.
Fuck free trade. Foreign protectionism, domestic free trade. TPP, NAFTA, et. al. need to be revoked.
flaneur said: That includes those in his party who are willing to go further than him, like Cruz.
Ha! You think that Cruz would go “further” than him? Cruz is a neocon.
Hopefully this junkyard-dog wing of the US electorate can be pacified with some kind of bone or other. Trump has shown it's our number one political pathology right now.
An encouraging thought: Siince Donald Trump is such a brilliant businessman, if he doesn't become president and something happens to Tim Cook, Donald could take the reins as Apple's next CEO.
If Donald Trump is to win, I have fear that US economy will go the other direction and in turn affecting global economy. The world has changed much and realising the globalised economy is important.
I've seen many progressives and liberals who are loudly opposed to globalization.
Many on both sides are opposed to globalisation for their own reasons. One is for nationalist reason, the other because they're trying to save people from themselves, or from being exploited (supposedly). A bit a "white man's burden" paternalistic scenario.
So, the far right are aggressively against globalization because they fear losing control... While the far left are for it, as long as it goes the way they want it too...
I have contempt for both sides equally.
Globalization is neither all good, or all evil, it just is. Like all complex system in which humans are involved it is very very messy and complex. Eventually, it will all sort itself out and probably we'll all be better off because of it. That doesn't mean there won't be suffering in between though. That's the problem with big macro-economic changes; they're rarely painless. At the same time, they're essentially impossible to stop.
Trump wants to go back to a time of closed borders and local production; well good luck with that.... He's 60 years too late.
We're all interdependent, that's the ultimate consequence of globalization, and in the end, that means we all have stakes it what happens next. In negotiations, that's a good point to start, makes a win at all cost solution less likely to be the goal of participants.
Relinquishing control is hard for both the left and right; it makes some uncomfortable. But, control was always an illusion anyway; we all live on the same planet and it isn't getting more spacious.
If Donald Trump is to win, I have fear that US economy will go the other direction and in turn affecting global economy. The world has changed much and realising the globalised economy is important.
No. Fuck that bullshit. Globalization ends this decade.
Will you institutionalize yourself, along with all of these people, when he wins the presidency? Or will you just go on to shill some other copied and pasted line?
I'm surprised by how many unpatriotic comments are on this site. Brazil forced Apple to do it and they did. Apple makes mac pros here. Motorola made a phone here a few years ago (before the whole google fiasco). It can be done, especially in this age of robotics. Instead of wasting money on buybacks - spend $100 billion making a few automated robotic factories. Look at Tesla - it's domestic as much as possible and will bring the batteries with the gigafactory. It would add good jobs (not menial ones), improve the domestic supply base etc. Its a great idea, we just lack leadership. Companies will do whatever the government forces them to do if they want to stay in business.
Manufacturing is more than buying and programming some robots, then flipping a switch. And the guy who has more experience with this at Apple than anyone is Tim Cook, who came aboard when the company was in the midst of operational and manufacturing chaos. He reorganized the whole shebang into a global product and logistical marvel that propelled Apple into its preeminent stature today. Here's what he said about it to Charlie Rose last month on 60 Minutes.
"Yeah, let me-- let me-- let me clear, China put an enormous focus on manufacturing. In what we would call, you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The U.S., over time, began to stop having as many vocational kind of skills. I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we're currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields."
Cook has said it before, in other forums and in other ways. By and large, this country no longer has the people with skill sets to support advanced manufacturing in a global setting, and this nation seems unwilling to make the educational and vocational investment to support that objective. The Mac Pro being assembled in Austin is a microcosmic exception. Trump can wave his magic wand all he wants. He doesn't have the sense to turn it out of the wind and quit peeing on his shoes.
Comments
That's all people say about the crap he says.
His description of the actual issue is wrong, and his solution is IMPOSSIBLE.
Apple already spends its money in the states; that's were its highest paying jobs are.
That's where a lot of profits are made; more would be repatriated with a different tax structure.
Repatriating profits would give a hell of a lot more money than the little money/jobs that would come from final assembly in the US (which would undoubtedly be done by robots...)
Dumbass Trump realizes that he's asking for minimum wage jobs for highly technically proficient people; people that are already in high demand (thus paid at least 4-5 times minimum wages). So, again.. IMPOSSIBLE.
Protectionism, or incentives (either are usually not allowed by WTO) are all bad for business; toupet man trump should know that... He's just feeding those chumps who support his total desingenious BS.
Also, final assembly in China is just a small part of the BOM, countless other parts are done oversees and are not coming back.
If he makes it as the Republican leader, they deserve the loss in the presidential election which could be the result.
I always find it funny that people say democrats raise taxes when it's clear they haven't in a hell of a long time.
Not cutting taxes when you have to pay your bills is NOT RAISING TAXES; the narrative the GOP has been running since the 1980s.
Both party have cut taxes mostly on the richest, the democrat have just done it a lot less.
The way its done is you give a tax cut that in theory applies to all, but in fact 90% of the tax savings go to the top of the rung.
80% see the little tax savings and they don't understand the full consequences of them on the overall economy.
This is justified through good ol' trickle down... Even if it's been discredited to death.
The outrageous thing here is the government is running a deficit; so in fact, the state borrows to give back that money as tax cuts to the top rung in tax cuts... And everyone pays for it... which is even more incredible. Especially since trickled down had been an abject failure, that money the state doesn't get has a much smaller effect on the overall economy when the top 5% gets it than if it kept it (the leverage effect is smaller).
Secondly, being a delusion twit is not limited to low IQ; some of the most deluded people I know are otherwise fairly intelligent by most measures that can be tested.
Thirdly, IQ doesn't necessarily measure all aspects of intelligence and certainly doesn't measure how information is filtered by our biases before it is assessed.
It also doesn't measure ethics, empathy, etc.
Someone highly rational may believe enslaving people is great for his business (if in his head blacks/christians/whatever are sub-human and not worth much... )
Secondly, Steve Jobs appealed to Obama to help him with manufacturing and apparently Obama was either so disinterested with Jobs' requests that Jobs himself switched off any Obama support from that point forward. (I believe this was referenced in Jobs' book)
No, we heard it right, just like we heard all the shit he said before.
You apologist make me sick.
secondly, you're making shit up and getting it backwards with Jobs and Obama.
Ha! You think that Cruz would go “further” than him? Cruz is a neocon.
Pro tip: they represent ~66% of the population.
One is for nationalist reason, the other because they're trying to save people from themselves, or from being exploited (supposedly). A bit a "white man's burden" paternalistic scenario.
So, the far right are aggressively against globalization because they fear losing control...
While the far left are for it, as long as it goes the way they want it too...
I have contempt for both sides equally.
Globalization is neither all good, or all evil, it just is.
Like all complex system in which humans are involved it is very very messy and complex.
Eventually, it will all sort itself out and probably we'll all be better off because of it.
That doesn't mean there won't be suffering in between though.
That's the problem with big macro-economic changes; they're rarely painless.
At the same time, they're essentially impossible to stop.
Trump wants to go back to a time of closed borders and local production; well good luck with that.... He's 60 years too late.
We're all interdependent, that's the ultimate consequence of globalization, and in the end, that means we all have stakes it what happens next.
In negotiations, that's a good point to start, makes a win at all cost solution less likely to be the goal of participants.
Relinquishing control is hard for both the left and right; it makes some uncomfortable.
But, control was always an illusion anyway; we all live on the same planet and it isn't getting more spacious.
Learn what a bigot is.
Will you institutionalize yourself, along with all of these people, when he wins the presidency? Or will you just go on to shill some other copied and pasted line?
foggyhill said:
That’s not an argument. If anything, it’s proof that it’s a good idea and that it will happen.
And yet everyone refuses to invest in space. It’s literally the most important thing we can be doing.
"Yeah, let me-- let me-- let me clear, China put an enormous focus on manufacturing. In what we would call, you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The U.S., over time, began to stop having as many vocational kind of skills. I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we're currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields."
Cook has said it before, in other forums and in other ways. By and large, this country no longer has the people with skill sets to support advanced manufacturing in a global setting, and this nation seems unwilling to make the educational and vocational investment to support that objective. The Mac Pro being assembled in Austin is a microcosmic exception. Trump can wave his magic wand all he wants. He doesn't have the sense to turn it out of the wind and quit peeing on his shoes.