Donald Trump says Apple should back down in San Bernardino case

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  • Reply 41 of 131
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Trump is wrong and really which politician would be right here? Hillary Clinton would be no different. I suppose Sanders can claim to be different in terms of his requests but under his economy we won't have to worry about Apple encryption because no one will be able to afford an iPhone if he is elected. 
    cornchip
  • Reply 42 of 131
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    Apple Bud said:
    I thought that Republicans were against government intrusion? 

    Perhaps the issue with Trump is that he has so much going on, he doesn't take the time to stop and really think about the impact of what he is saying. Supporting this decision means that he wants us all to just give up on our privacy.

    We tend to think of government as an entity, but there are people working at these offices that would have access to you information. Where people are involved, there is always a chance for the information to be used in a wrong way.
    To go one step further, when government people are involved, there is always the guarantee of abuse.

    Does anyone really believe that the FBI gives a shit about getting into a lone nut's iPhone? Not one fucking bit do they care. All they care about is setting the precedent. That if Apple opens it up once, they will have to open it up again and again and again.

    They are merely trying to use a scenario that is fresh on the public's mind to generate sympathy and outcry, and demand compliance.
    edited February 2016 tomkarlcornchipchiajony0cnocbui
  • Reply 43 of 131
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Trump just crapped out of his mouth once again and stinked up the place.

    He comments on everything despite clearly understanding NOTHING.

    Another possibility, he understands it but panders to the ignorance of his idiot followers; a distinct possibility that makes him more dangerous.
    cornchip
  • Reply 44 of 131
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    muppetry said:
    zoetmb said:
    Help law enforcement do what job?   They already know who committed the murders and they know why.   Even if Apple could open the phone, what do you think is going to be on there?   My bet is absolutely nothing of significance.   But let's say there is:   let's say there's some text message or phone message recorded with some ISIS member in Iraq or Afghanistan who told them "kill as many Americans as you can".    What's that going to do?  We're never going to find that person.   So this is all much ado about nothing.  We don't need a specific message to know that there are terrorists who want to kill Americans.   

    The Government gets us to give up our rights by creating fear.   Trump, Cruz et al, get us to give up our rights by creating fear.

    In the U.S., more people have been killed by ladder accidents than by terrorism.   In 2012, 10 Americans were killed by terrorists, 2 were injured and 3 more were kidnapped.   In 2013, the numbers were 16 killed, 17 injured and 12 kidnapped.   From the CDC: "In 2011, work-related ladder fall injuries (LFIs) resulted in 113 fatalities (0.09 per 100,000 full-time equivalent* [FTE] workers), an estimated 15,460 nonfatal injuries reported by employers that involved ≥1 days away from work (DAFW), and an estimated 34,000 nonfatal injuries treated in EDs."

    I forget the number of people killed by guns in the U.S. each year, but I think it's around 30,000 (not including suicides) and no one gives a crap.   Why?   Because in that case, we care more about our supposed Constitutional rights than we do about the result.    The same should be true about intrusions into our phones.   Theoretically, I don't have a problem with Apple opening this phone (if indeed they can) once ordered by the Court.   The problem is that opens a can of worms where, as others have posted, the FBI, CIA and police units will go to court in order to get the tool to use for themselves.   And if Apple can do it, hackers can do it.  And once hackers can do it, that makes all of us, far less safe.
    I'm sure that they are primarily looking for contacts in the US, as they should be. 
    Contacts using burner phones and talking in codes; that sure is going to help them.
    Anyone linked to them by now has surely closed down shop in every way possible online and offline.
    Unless they had addresses and photos of those people, the police would have nothing.
    tomkarlchia
  • Reply 45 of 131
    Trump is an idiot of the biggest kind. He doesn't care about anyone but himself. He bad mouths everyone with insults but never gives any real solutions to the political problems. Build walls and close down immigration and deport everyone. If that doesn't sound like another Hitler I don't know what does. He just left out the concentration camps and mass killings. He opens his mouth and all that comes out of it is stupid talk that can't really be implemented. Opening the back door to encryption would give every criminal our information and cause mass identity theft way beyond what goes on today. The implications would be horrible.
  • Reply 46 of 131
    rs9 said:
    The more I hear Trump the more he sounds like a Communist/Socialist.  He supports more government intervention.  He criticizes Corporate America by moving over seas (Ford, Carrier, etc).  knowing full well a corporations largest expense is salary and health benefits. This is why the Trump line of clothes is made in China. 
    You're right. He's a barely disguised fascist. There are nothing left but really, really bad choices this election.
    Trump is a very practical man, incredibly successful and just want American needs at this time.  Cook should do his duty to the families that lost their loved ones, and help to avoid further attacks of this kind, possibly by people who could be discovered by the information on the phone.  Obama has doubled our national debt, made our borders worthless, signed treaties that enrich our sworn enemies, and allowed ISIL to run without serious restraint - and then there's Obamacare, an insiders game, where the rich get richer.  Trump will use common sense and business standards to move this country forward again.
  • Reply 47 of 131
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    jungmark said:
    Dump Trump. Clearly he doesn't understand technology. 
    Yeah, like a lot of the other candidates do... give me  break.

    I will not vote for Trump (unless it came to Trump v. Sanders, in which case I have no idea what I'll do), and I think he's wrong on this issue, but he's tapping into a deep well of utter and complete disgust with and contempt for -- both legitimate, in my view -- business-as-usual politics in the US. People are simply tired of the bought-and-paid-for politicians that are screwing everyone, regardless of whether they're on or from the Right or the Left.

    The rest of the world may be in for a shock in November.
    You do realize that's one of the people doing the god damn buying hey; hey's just cutting the middle man by appealing directly to the base instinct of people instead of going through a politician. So, how the hell is he different. He's not.

    The GOP has had issue based campaigns (often using social conservatism, or old dixiecrat issues) for decades to distract them from the fact that economically, voting for the GOP is bad for them. Trump pushes basically the SAME buttons; how is he different? He's not. Having a billionaire leach being a "champion" of those same people in just the summum of cynicism

    He's not even able to get more than 30-35% of his own party (that's been pretty stable for a while) so I think we are "safe" in November.
    He's benefiting from a fragmented weak field; facing a light breeze, everyone's strong. He's an abysmal debater; can't make one sentence that makes sense to anyone with a brain cell. And that goes even in his reality shows; near incoherence at all time. He's the embodiment of all that's wrong in the US, many of which have been created by the GOP over the last 30 years (trickle down!), not it's solution.
    edited February 2016 Ani
  • Reply 48 of 131
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,053member
    rs9 said:
    The more I hear Trump the more he sounds like a Communist/Socialist.  He supports more government intervention.  He criticizes Corporate America by moving over seas (Ford, Carrier, etc).  knowing full well a corporations largest expense is salary and health benefits. This is why the Trump line of clothes is made in China. 
    I salut Trump with a middle finger. He's just not giving up any chance to make headlines for votes. This guy is a pure idiot. Who will vote for him? Probably those with no or low education or conservatives living in remote region of Montana or Dems haters. People with sense don't vote for him..
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 49 of 131
    muppetry said:
    Having just read Tim Cook's statements on this I'm now confused. He implies that Apple could create a software tool to break into the phone but that such a tool would be "too dangerous to create" - presumably in the sense that they could not, subsequently, prevent its widespread use as a backdoor to any iPhone.
    After reading Tim's note carefully, I think what's being proposed by the FBI is this: Apple creates a version of iOS that allows electronic entry of passcodes at an essentially unlimited speed. Then the FBI uses their computers to mount a brute-force attack. It sounds like this is quite feasible to do. The flaw in Cook's argument is that it seems like just a matter of time before a production iPhone could be hacked to bypass the entry restrictions without Apple's help. I'm not at all sure about this but it seems plausible. So even if Apple refuses, it may one day be possible to crack an iPhone anyway.

  • Reply 50 of 131
    rs9 said:
    The more I hear Trump the more he sounds like a Communist/Socialist.  He supports more government intervention.  He criticizes Corporate America by moving over seas (Ford, Carrier, etc).  knowing full well a corporations largest expense is salary and health benefits. This is why the Trump line of clothes is made in China. 
    No. He sounds exactly like the Fascist that he is. 
    Ani
  • Reply 51 of 131

    Apple Bud said:
    I thought that Republicans were against government intrusion? 
    They are against government intrusion into THEIR personal lives. 
  • Reply 52 of 131
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    rs9 said:
    The more I hear Trump the more he sounds like a Communist/Socialist.  He supports more government intervention.  He criticizes Corporate America by moving over seas (Ford, Carrier, etc).  knowing full well a corporations largest expense is salary and health benefits. This is why the Trump line of clothes is made in China. 
    You're right. He's a barely disguised fascist. There are nothing left but really, really bad choices this election.
    Here in is the problem in America right now, niether the left nor the right seems to grasp the fact that the constitution provides for rights that can't be taken away via legislative fiat. Over the last two decades we have seen significant erosion of the freedoms outlined in the bill of rights and the constitution, it is really sad that this is accepted by the populace. By the way this doesn't mean I'm down on Trump as a candidate as he is hitting on some very important concerns about the direction of the country. Especially issues with immigration which right now totally out of hand. I would however prefer that somebody running for election demostrate a decent understanding of what freedom is and why certain rights have been outlined in the Consittution and Bill of Roghts. The danger of loosing our freedom is very real and needs to acknowledged by at least one political party.
  • Reply 53 of 131
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    You're right. He's a barely disguised fascist. There are nothing left but really, really bad choices this election.
    Trump is a very practical man, incredibly successful and just want American needs at this time.  Cook should do his duty to the families that lost their loved ones, and help to avoid further attacks of this kind, possibly by people who could be discovered by the information on the phone.  Obama has doubled our national debt, made our borders worthless, signed treaties that enrich our sworn enemies, and allowed ISIL to run without serious restraint - and then there's Obamacare, an insiders game, where the rich get richer.  Trump will use common sense and business standards to move this country forward again.
    Trump strikes me as an earnest person who would like to run the country with a no fucks given, no red tape, just get things done attitude. That's perfectly admirable, for a 9 year old running a lemonade stand. Unfortunately in the real world, people have rights, and so do corporations, that even someone who is "actually serious about being president" doesn't have the permissions to trample on.

    But, none of it matters anyway, because its all just a game. None of it is real. Its a play act, meant to get people like you, who are soooo good a taking sides, to become a willful parrot.

    With all loving respect, if in this day and age, you vote for either hand-picked media "candidate"...you're a fucking idiot.
    edited February 2016 cornchip
  • Reply 54 of 131
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,053member
    sog35 said:
    Giving the FBI an encryption key is the same thing as giving the FBI a master physical key that can open every single door on the planet.

    Do you want the FBI to have a key they can use to open your front door anytime they want?
    Or open your car anytime they want?
    Do you want the FBI to go into your house while you are at work?

    That is EXACTLY what the FBI wants from a digital perspective. 

    There are other ways to find out who these terrorist are working with. The FBI needs to find a better solution that does not compromise the privacy and safety of the innocent.
    Thank you Sog. You're correct on this. That's exactly what I said in other thread. FBI alread got what they needed on this iPhone 5c and probably found out nothing. They just want Apple to "create", not "give up" a software. It's unconditional to force someone to create something for you. Also, think about it. If you are a terrorist, would you want to store something on your phone? Any communication in texts or enails? Or rather, you communicate by voice, in worst case, phone calls.
  • Reply 55 of 131
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    wood1208 said:
    It seems no brainer that Apple should help to uncover data from such terrorists phone but certainly against providing blanket backdoor.
    Actually I can't agree here. At this point there is no useful information that will come out of that iPhone. Second when you have an administration in place that has a policy of letting criminals, terrorists and other undesirables cross into the country unchecked, the information in that phone is of little use in stopping another terrorist incident. All we have here is the Department of Justice trying to set a president so that others will have to comply with whatever demand they make. It is really sad in this case as the perpetrators are dead. So yeah the government is trying to create an environment where they get public support for this non sense. That is frankly disgusting.
  • Reply 56 of 131
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,053member
    I don't care what Trump says.

    The reality is that if this has the oversight of elected officials, they should do it. In the UK they do this stuff quite well: parliamentary committees vote & oversee.

    16 innocent people were murdered. Help law enforcement do their job.

    This is Snowdon/Greenwald level conspiracy stuff. Give me a break.
    Apple already helped them on this phone, you dumbshit. FBI just want to be able to break in any iPhone. Read Tim Cook's letter.
  • Reply 57 of 131
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,945member
    Amazing anyone takes this guy seriously as a candidate for POTUS.









    Not that the other options are way better.
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 58 of 131
    muppetry said:
    sog35 said:

    Cook is correct. Once this tool is created the government will next request they have full access to the tool.  And when that happens the bad guys will get access to it also.


    I agree - but I'm trying to reconcile what seem to be conflicting statements on whether such a tool can be created. Tim Cook has previously stated, I believe, that the encryption implementation prevents even Apple from getting the data. But if Apple can create a tool to allow them to extract the data, then the previous statement is surely incorrect.
    I don't think Cook made a definite statement either way about if it _could_ be created, his argument is that it should not be created. He is making a moral/legal argument, not a technological one. This is a better position – if his argument was just "well, this is OK to have, but we can't do it for technical reasons on this phone" then the government could ask for those technical barriers to be dropped in future versions of the phone.
  • Reply 59 of 131
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,053member
    maria f said:
    It always makes me think taht people who are obsessed with privacy, are up to no good. Those who do not want to do do anything illegal or bad don't have to be afraid.  Most people live their lives in cyberspace anyway and their data is subject to hackers all over the place, they have no problem posting it all on Facebook but are bent out of shape when law enforcement needs to get info about terrorists. Cook should give up this fight.  I'd rather be safe than worried about someone knowing what I'm up to if I intend no harm.  
    Then you don't use password at all for your email, bank accounts, facebook and such. Privacy is everything whether or not for people with or without legal activities. No one wants others just freely walks in to his/her house.
    edited February 2016 Anichiajfc1138jony0
  • Reply 60 of 131
    fallenjt said:
    sog35 said:
    Giving the FBI an encryption key is the same thing as giving the FBI a master physical key that can open every single door on the planet.

    Do you want the FBI to have a key they can use to open your front door anytime they want?
    Or open your car anytime they want?
    Do you want the FBI to go into your house while you are at work?

    That is EXACTLY what the FBI wants from a digital perspective. 

    There are other ways to find out who these terrorist are working with. The FBI needs to find a better solution that does not compromise the privacy and safety of the innocent.
    Thank you Sog. You're correct on this. That's exactly what I said in other thread. FBI alread got what they needed on this iPhone 5c and probably found out nothing. They just want Apple to "create", not "give up" a software. It's unconditional to force someone to create something for you. Also, think about it. If you are a terrorist, would you want to store something on your phone? Any communication in texts or enails? Or rather, you communicate by voice, in worst case, phone calls.
    First, Apple doesn't have an encryption key to give to the FBI nor can they create one. And the FBI isn't asking for that either. They're asking for a new -- private -- version of iOS that could be loaded on this phone and used to bypass passcode entry restrictions. That would allow them to mount a very unsophisticated attack but it would certainly work given enough time. 

    Second, I don't know where you get the idea that "It's unconditional (sic) to force someone to create something for you." I assume you mean "unconstitutional" but that's just not so. Gov't regulators force business to create things all the time. The IRS forces you to create an accounting of  your tax liability every year. And on and on. There's nothing unusual about this.

    Third, we have no idea if these particular terrorists left valuable info on that phone. They weren't highly trained operatives. This was a hybrid, amateur attack inspired by ideological propaganda. We're not dealing with the CIA, Mossad, KGB or even Al Qaeda here. It's quite possible there is valuable info there.

    This is not an easy question to work through -- there are valid arguments on both sides. And let's not forget Apple's unstated business reason for objecting. If they comply their sales in China and other regions around the world be impacted. So Cook isn't just looking out for the public good here. He also has his shareholders in mind.
    muppetry
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