US Attorney General 'hopes' Apple will unlock San Bernardino iPhone

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  • Reply 41 of 71
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    razormaid said:
    tmay said:
    You are aware the the Constitution is a piece of paper that is open to interpretation, and in times of crisis, is easily avoided/manipulated, and history proves that over and over. This is a case where the Director of an Agency under the umbrella of the Department of Justice under the current Administration is now seen in overreach by Congress, and at least one Federal Magistrate. That is how our system of government survives and evolves. There isn't any Constitutional purity simply for temporal reasons; the Founding Fathers wouldn't have any idea of the future beyond at most a vague few decades. 
    Yikes!  Really?  So the Ten Commandments are really old and up for interpretation to all Christians just because it's old and written in stone?  A law is a law. They didn't write it in the abstract. They wrote it in such a basic way that only people trying to skirt around it try to "interpret" it. If followed to the tee and not allowed for the "variations on a theme" approach, we would not have such a mess of things now. It's because judges started trying to "interpret" it rather than follow it that's created these "precedences" - they use those to justify even further perversion of the actual written law. 
    So you run about on the Sabbath and stone to death anyone you find violating the day by working? Because, you know, the law is the law. Here's hoping you get a great price when you sell your daughters into slavery. "The Law". 
    edited March 2016
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  • Reply 42 of 71
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    jfc1138 said:
    razor maid said:
    Yikes!  Really?  So the Ten Commandments are really old and up for interpretation to all Christians just because it's old and written in stone?
    So you run about on the Sabbath and stone to death anyone you find violating the day by working? Because, you know, the law is the law. Here's hoping you get a great price when you sell your daughters into slavery. “The Law". 
    Hang on. Old Covenant vs. New Covenant. There’s a lot of misunderstanding going around about what Christians believe vs. Jews.
    icoco3cornchip
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  • Reply 43 of 71
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    jfc1138 said:
    So you run about on the Sabbath and stone to death anyone you find violating the day by working? Because, you know, the law is the law. Here's hoping you get a great price when you sell your daughters into slavery. “The Law". 
    Hang on. Old Covenant vs. New Covenant. There’s a lot of misunderstanding going around about what Christians believe vs. Jews.
    The Bible? So it's okay to pick and choose what parts  to obey to the tee and what parts to ignore? That sounds a whole lot like "interpretation" to me. 

    Or  to the Commandments? Thou shalt not kill. To the tee? Yet we have an enormous military? So unilateral disarmament because there's no "interpretation" allowed for that very clear directive? That was the statement of the poster I was responding to: NO "interpretation" allowed: To. The. Tee.
    edited March 2016
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  • Reply 44 of 71
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Neo111 said:
    Another idiot.

    Are those thousands of other companies being forced to write a custom OS (backdoor) as well? Or are they simply handing over emails after being served with a court order?

    Edited: Did she also forget Apple has ALREADY handed over what they were capable of? Like iCloud backups?

    Who appointed this stupid person?  Evidently she has been under a rock the past week and has not been briefed of all the evidence Apple has provided of their assistance to the FBI.   Along with the fact it was the work phone which most likely did not have any data on it unlike the personal phone that was destroyed.  
    Who appointed her? The same Constitution-trashing incompetent who appointed her predecessor, Eric Holder.

    She also was previously appointed a position by Bill Clinton. 
    edited March 2016
    tallest skilicoco3
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  • Reply 45 of 71
    linkmanlinkman Posts: 1,074member

    At the conference, Lynch plans to tell tech companies that there must be a balance between personal security and national security.
    That balance has swung way too far in favor of national security; e.g.: PRISM, FISA, NSA phone record collection, Stingray cell phone tracking, etc. So much for protection against unreasonable searches and seizures...
    SpamSandwich
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  • Reply 46 of 71
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    As to the AG? Here's hoping she's kept VERY far away from the Supreme Court.
    tallest skilSpamSandwichicoco3
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  • Reply 47 of 71
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    jfc1138 said:
    So it's okay to pick and choose what parts  to obey to the tee and what parts to ignore?
    Nope, it’s okay to know what is and is not doctrine.
    Or to the Commandments? Thou shalt not kill. To the tee?
    There’s a difference between killing (murder) and killing (defense–of person or of ideology). There’s a reason that secular law makes this distinction, after all...
    icoco3JamesUpcornchip
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  • Reply 48 of 71
    JamesUpjamesup Posts: 6member
    jfc1138 said:
    So you run about on the Sabbath and stone to death anyone you find violating the day by working? Because, you know, the law is the law. Here's hoping you get a great price when you sell your daughters into slavery. "The Law". 
    Last time I checked the Ten Commandments do not tell to sell anyone in slavery. That is what it means, perversion of law. You know it very well and are good at it.
    icoco3cornchip
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  • Reply 49 of 71
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,470member
    razormaid said:
    tmay said:
    You are aware the the Constitution is a piece of paper that is open to interpretation, and in times of crisis, is easily avoided/manipulated, and history proves that over and over. This is a case where the Director of an Agency under the umbrella of the Department of Justice under the current Administration is now seen in overreach by Congress, and at least one Federal Magistrate. That is how our system of government survives and evolves. There isn't any Constitutional purity simply for temporal reasons; the Founding Fathers wouldn't have any idea of the future beyond at most a vague few decades. 
    Yikes!  Really?  So the Ten Commandments are really old and up for interpretation to all Christians just because it's old and written in stone?  

    Regading the constitition: A law is a law. They didn't write it in the abstract. They wrote it in such a basic way that only people trying to skirt around it try to "interpret" it. If followed to the tee and not allowed for the "variations on a theme" approach, we would not have such a mess of things now. It's because judges started trying to "interpret" it rather than follow it that's created these "precedences" - they use those to justify even further perversion of the actual written law. 
    The Framer's of the Constitution were so confident in their prescient abilities, that they included Article 5, which is the Amendment process to the Constitution. How many Amendments have there been?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
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  • Reply 50 of 71
    darelrexdarelrex Posts: 151member
    Why does the FBI need Apple's cooperation at all? Can't they just hire hackers to do what they want? And no, they don't need Apple to digitally "sign" their hacked copy of iOS, because they can simply replace that iPhone 5c's ROM chip(s) with altered ROMs that don't care if the OS isn't signed properly. If you have physical possession of the iPhone -- and it's a pre-secure-enclave iPhone -- you can do whatever you want. (That's why Apple came up with the secure enclave.)

    I think the FBI wants Apple to do it for them, simply to set a legal precedent -- a precedent that later might be leveraged into a mandatory built-in backdoor. Without such a backdoor, and with the secure enclave, today's iPhone 6 designs are impenetrable even with the iPhone in your possession, and even by Apple.
    cornchip
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  • Reply 51 of 71
    JamesUpjamesup Posts: 6member

    jfc1138 said:
    Hang on. Old Covenant vs. New Covenant. There’s a lot of misunderstanding going around about what Christians believe vs. Jews.
    The Bible? So it's okay to pick and choose what parts  to obey to the tee and what parts to ignore? That sounds a whole lot like "interpretation" to me. 

    Or  to the Commandments? Thou shalt not kill. To the tee? Yet we have an enormous military? So unilateral disarmament because there's no "interpretation" allowed for that very clear directive? That was the statement of the poster I was responding to: NO "interpretation" allowed: To. The. Tee.
    Commandment about Sabbath is the only one which does not have significance in New Testament, as it does not play much role in everyday life. Every other commandment is followed to the tee by devout Christians, they are not left for interpretation. Also remember this change of one commandment came from the Author of the Bible, not some interpreter.

    As it is already said, murder and self defense are two different things.
    edited March 2016
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  • Reply 52 of 71
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    darelrex said:
    Why does the FBI need Apple's cooperation at all? Can't they just hire hackers to do what they want? And no, they don't need Apple to digitally "sign" their hacked copy of iOS, because they can simply replace that iPhone 5c's ROM chip(s) with altered ROMs that don't care if the OS isn't signed properly. If you have physical possession of the iPhone -- and it's a pre-secure-enclave iPhone -- you can do whatever you want. (That's why Apple came up with the secure enclave.)

    I think the FBI wants Apple to do it for them, simply to set a legal precedent -- a precedent that later might be leveraged into a mandatory built-in backdoor. Without such a backdoor, and with the secure enclave, today's iPhone 6 designs are impenetrable even with the iPhone in your possession, and even by Apple.
    Have you not been paying attention to any of the discussion here? All of those points have been made repeatedly.
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  • Reply 53 of 71
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    tmay said:
    icoco3 said:
    Be aware that the Constitution belongs to the People of this country and defines the limits of Government and what they can and can't do.  The "balance of power" has nothing to do with the rights held by the people and rights not conferred on the Federal Government by the people.
    You are aware the the Constitution is a piece of paper that is open to interpretation, and in times of crisis, is easily avoided/manipulated, and history proves that over and over. This is a case where the Director of an Agency under the umbrella of the Department of Justice under the current Administration is now seen in overreach by Congress, and at least one Federal Magistrate. That is how our system of government survives and evolves. There isn't any Constitutional purity simply for temporal reasons; the Founding Fathers wouldn't have any idea of the future beyond at most a vague few decades. 
    "You are aware the the Constitution is a piece of paper that is open to interpretation" - NO IT IS NOT !!!!  Just because elected officials or appointed ones side step it does not make it right.

    Amendment IV - It says the government can "search" and "seize" with a warrant but not that we must provide them the means to accomplish that.

    The people who wrote the Constitution knew exactly what they were writing.  It is straight forward and not open to "interpretation" by those who wish to find a way around it.






    tallest skilJamesUpcornchip
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  • Reply 54 of 71
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    tmay said:
    razormaid said:
    Yikes!  Really?  So the Ten Commandments are really old and up for interpretation to all Christians just because it's old and written in stone?  

    Regading the constitition: A law is a law. They didn't write it in the abstract. They wrote it in such a basic way that only people trying to skirt around it try to "interpret" it. If followed to the tee and not allowed for the "variations on a theme" approach, we would not have such a mess of things now. It's because judges started trying to "interpret" it rather than follow it that's created these "precedences" - they use those to justify even further perversion of the actual written law. 
    The Framer's of the Constitution were so confident in their prescient abilities, that they included Article 5, which is the Amendment process to the Constitution. How many Amendments have there been?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
    And they made the process quite difficult so it could not just be amended on a whim.
    cornchip
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 55 of 71
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    darelrex said:
    Why does the FBI need Apple's cooperation at all? Can't they just hire hackers to do what they want? And no, they don't need Apple to digitally "sign" their hacked copy of iOS, because they can simply replace that iPhone 5c's ROM chip(s) with altered ROMs that don't care if the OS isn't signed properly. If you have physical possession of the iPhone -- and it's a pre-secure-enclave iPhone -- you can do whatever you want. (That's why Apple came up with the secure enclave.)

    I think the FBI wants Apple to do it for them, simply to set a legal precedent -- a precedent that later might be leveraged into a mandatory built-in backdoor. Without such a backdoor, and with the secure enclave, today's iPhone 6 designs are impenetrable even with the iPhone in your possession, and even by Apple.
    Interesting that they are after Apple to get the data.  Could be a crack showing in the abilities of the NSA.  Why hasn't the FBI talked to them, or did they, and the NSA could not provide anything?
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  • Reply 56 of 71
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,587moderator
    Neo111 said:
    Evidently she has been under a rock the past week and has not been briefed of all the evidence Apple has provided of their assistance to the FBI.   Along with the fact it was the work phone which most likely did not have any data on it unlike the personal phone that was destroyed.  
    Judging from the interview, Loretta Lynch wants the same thing the FBI wants and will ignore any laws that say otherwise:



    She thinks they should get all the rights and civilians have the right to remain silent and comply. She gets paid over $100k per year to act like this.

    You can hear the same lies in what she says, at 2:52 when she was asked about involuntary servitude, she responds by saying, that doesn't matter, when the law says please comply with the law, that's not servitude. Just another official who won't be held accountable for lying in public. The interviewer should have pressed her on the involuntary servitude point by asking her how she expected something that didn't exist to come into existence without the use of forced labor. Given that her job role is to interpret the law, failing to do this on something this important should mean she isn't fit to do her job.

    She says that Apple has done a great job protecting their own code. That sounds a lot like they've tried to steal it. With open source systems like Android/Linux, they have the code already. Microsoft gives their code to the government:

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/twc/government-security-program.aspx

    The intelligence agencies have been stealing data that gets synced between servers:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html

    Corporations will have to backup their software source code to different locations but Apple has obviously done a good job to keep it hidden from the intelligence agencies. Maybe they use snail mail for backups. Or maybe they only have one copy and they are just one update to Adobe Creative Cloud away from it being wiped out. It would be interesting to find out how many source code backups Apple keeps and how reliable they are given that over 1 billion devices depend on the code.

    Given that all of these high ranking officials have made it clear they are not intent on complying with the law as it stands today and don't care about respecting the civil liberties of the people who pay them, look forward to them constantly trying to hide laws inside other bills to get what they want.
    cornchipbadmonk
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  • Reply 57 of 71
    indiekidukindiekiduk Posts: 395member
    The shooters work's iPhone! Not shooter's iPhone. Come on lady!!!
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  • Reply 58 of 71
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,470member
    icoco3 said:
    tmay said:
    The Framer's of the Constitution were so confident in their prescient abilities, that they included Article 5, which is the Amendment process to the Constitution. How many Amendments have there been?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
    And they made the process quite difficult so it could not just be amended on a whim.
    Nonetheless, the Constitution was designed as a document that evolves, so it isn't static by any ideology.
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  • Reply 59 of 71
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    tmay said:
    Nonetheless, the Constitution was designed as a document that evolves, so it isn't static by any ideology.
    Yeah, sorry, repeating it incessantly won’t make it true.

    “Shall not be infringed” is pretty fucking clear. And it’s not the Constitution that grants you those rights in the first place, so it cannot be amended to remove them.
    icoco3cornchip
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  • Reply 60 of 71
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    tmay said:
    icoco3 said:
    And they made the process quite difficult so it could not just be amended on a whim.
    Nonetheless, the Constitution was designed as a document that evolves, so it isn't static by any ideology.
    "Evolves" by amendment but not by some new enlightenment of meaning within the already existing text.
    cornchip
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