Turkey's deputy PM encourages Apple to move in wake of EU tax ruling

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,112member
    uroshnor said:

    Its an interesting issue of sovereignty , and the retrospective nature of the ruling is understandably worrying. It's one thing to say : this stops now, and completely different to go back 15-20 years and require back payment. 
    That'd make sense if a law was being changed or updated, but there is no change. The rule has been in place for those 20 years, Ireland just hasn't been following it with regard to Apple.

    If you were found to have been making an under the table deal with your IRS auditor to overlook improperly declaring earnings between a legal crack for the past 20 years do you really think you'd get off with a "don't do it again" slap on the wrist?
    cnocbuisingularity
  • Reply 82 of 98
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Soli said:
    wigby said:
    Please show me someone who willingly pays as much tax as they can. I do not and you do not. Tax loopholes and accountants exist because we are all human and want to spend our own money instead of giving into others to waste.

    If your tax rate dropped to .05% tomorrow, you would gladly pass less and then complain when it was unfairly raised. This situation is no different than the deal that Ireland (not Apple) allegedly created.
    The rest of us have to make up for what Apple, Google and Amazon don't pay.
    If you're an Apple, Google or Amazon customer you're also making up for what they do pay.
    Which in the case of Apple, is next to nothing.  0.07% of sales in the case of Australia, for example.
    edited August 2016 gatorguy
  • Reply 83 of 98
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    ben20 said:
    I bet Apple is quickly shifting back to good old USA once we lower the coporate tax rate in the USA to 15% 
    after the November elections ?

    Maybe they even bring more manufacturing back, would be nice to have more Apple products 
    Made in USA.
    Do you get the joke behind all this outrage?  Even if Apple did as you suggest and moved back to the US with that tax rate, they would actually be 2.5% a year worse off in terms of corporate tax compared to Ireland, but that would be utterly smashed by the 20% import duty they would then have to pay to get their stuff into the EU.
  • Reply 84 of 98
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,427member
    nikon133 said:
    I was there last year and most business people I spoke to were a bit ticked off they were rejected but then went on to say in hindsight they were glad they were.  At that time their economy was doing way better than many EU countries.  The complication for the west in all this of course is Turkey guarding the only access the Russia Navy has to Sevastopol.  It's a choke hold the west needs to keep and bribery, sorry I mean negotiations will be needed I'm sure.  NATO membership already gained so what's next absent EU membership I wonder.
    I don't understand west's obsession with Russia. Personally, I'm more worried with growth of radicals in middle-east, which Turkey just might be a big part of.

    Additionally... in any real crisis, I cannot see Turkey being really able to guard that access. Not to mention that they seem to be keen on switching sides or, at least, sitting on two chairs, for as much as it benefits them. How long did it take them to hug and kiss with Putin, after grounding that Russian jet?

    I don't see them as valuable and trustworthy partner, not under current management at least.

    I don't disagree.  I guess a cruise missile or two can be launched just as easily from the Mediterranean these days.  It's Cold War thinking to attribute too much importance to guarding narrow sea straights.  My bad.
    let me smite this scorner. the creator of terrorism is western countries. Turkey does not harbor OpusDei like terrorist Fetullah Gulen. The best times of Turkey is under Erdogan but hey, not everyone liked Steve Jobs style. I remember people like these calling him "middle eastern" And hey, face-a-book and check western history and make sure that you understand all colonialists were calling the leaders of free countries "dictators" and they are the ones not keeping their words. Just a reminder. Yet in Syria West has the blood in their hands but oh, Turkey accomodates 3 million refugees. And some Western hypocrites just watch the news, following their lusts not take heed of whats going on in the world or give a hand to a refugee. But "Erdogan is a dictator." How can a view become so twisted??

    Not sure what your comments have to do with our slightly off topic conversation here about containing the Russian Fleet since they forcibly took over the Crimea to regain the port of Sevastopol?  Or did you post in the wrong place?
  • Reply 85 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,112member
    I quite like the phrase "face-a-book". Going to use that.
  • Reply 86 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    cropr said:
    latifbp said:
    cropr said:
    apple ][ said:
    This is yet another case of the dictatorial EU dictating their dictatorial ways to their slave countries and their subjects, in this case Ireland.

    Apple made a deal in good faith with Ireland, and now the EU comes along and tells Ireland that the deal is invalid. 

    The Irish are slaves to the EU, and the Irish are not in control of their own country.

    They should get the hell out of the EU, if they were smart.

    And Apple needs to set up shop in a place that controls their own destiny and is actually in charge of their own affairs.


    If you were smart, you wouldn't post such silly things.

    At least 50% of the foreign investments in Ireland are made because Ireland is a EU member state.  If Ireland leaves the EU, it would simply collapse

    Do you really think that the financial experts of Apple were not aware of the risks they were taking when the agreement with the Irish tax administration was made?  You are extremely naive.

    There was never a 'deal' made. Apple has had this tax rate since 1980. Tim Cook is bound as a head of a publicly traded company to be honest and forthright, with criminal penalties if he is not. You should read the public statement Apple made and Tim Cook stood by before you start spouting nonsense on here that is what is truly naive. Or do you think Apple's financial experts anticipated the formation of the EU way back in 1980 and telegraphed what to do in this very situation now 36 years ago? Maybe they have the Time Machine that is still not known to the public perhaps??? /s
    Tim Cook is not a kind a religion you have to believe in. He, like any other CEO of a big company, is not afraid of a lie if it is in the interests of Apple. 
    If you read the whole document the  EU has published with this case, you will discover that there are indeed arrangements made between the Irish tax administration and Apple Ireland
    He's the CEO of a publicly traded company. If he lies there would be criminal penalties. Not a religion. Just common sense.
    edited August 2016
  • Reply 87 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member

    cnocbui said:
    ben20 said:
    I bet Apple is quickly shifting back to good old USA once we lower the coporate tax rate in the USA to 15% 
    after the November elections ?

    Maybe they even bring more manufacturing back, would be nice to have more Apple products 
    Made in USA.
    Do you get the joke behind all this outrage?  Even if Apple did as you suggest and moved back to the US with that tax rate, they would actually be 2.5% a year worse off in terms of corporate tax compared to Ireland, but that would be utterly smashed by the 20% import duty they would then have to pay to get their stuff into the EU.
    Not once corporate tax code reflects a border less world with regard to business. Hold onto your last vestiges of attachment to U.S. wealth. It won't be much longer until you're all left on your own  with your ideals over there.
  • Reply 88 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member

    crowley said:
    uroshnor said:

    Its an interesting issue of sovereignty , and the retrospective nature of the ruling is understandably worrying. It's one thing to say : this stops now, and completely different to go back 15-20 years and require back payment. 
    That'd make sense if a law was being changed or updated, but there is no change. The rule has been in place for those 20 years, Ireland just hasn't been following it with regard to Apple.

    If you were found to have been making an under the table deal with your IRS auditor to overlook improperly declaring earnings between a legal crack for the past 20 years do you really think you'd get off with a "don't do it again" slap on the wrist?
    The IRS only can audit back to up to 3 years here. That's a big reason why us Americans are so perplexed by this.
  • Reply 89 of 98
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    latifbp said:

    crowley said:
    uroshnor said:

    Its an interesting issue of sovereignty , and the retrospective nature of the ruling is understandably worrying. It's one thing to say : this stops now, and completely different to go back 15-20 years and require back payment. 
    That'd make sense if a law was being changed or updated, but there is no change. The rule has been in place for those 20 years, Ireland just hasn't been following it with regard to Apple.

    If you were found to have been making an under the table deal with your IRS auditor to overlook improperly declaring earnings between a legal crack for the past 20 years do you really think you'd get off with a "don't do it again" slap on the wrist?
    The IRS only can audit back to up to 3 years here. That's a big reason why us Americans are so perplexed by this.
    foe example HMRC goes back 6 but technically can go back 20 years!, The EU is going back 10 years. Differing juristiction's have differing time limits.
  • Reply 90 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    latifbp said:

    crowley said:
    uroshnor said:

    Its an interesting issue of sovereignty , and the retrospective nature of the ruling is understandably worrying. It's one thing to say : this stops now, and completely different to go back 15-20 years and require back payment. 
    That'd make sense if a law was being changed or updated, but there is no change. The rule has been in place for those 20 years, Ireland just hasn't been following it with regard to Apple.

    If you were found to have been making an under the table deal with your IRS auditor to overlook improperly declaring earnings between a legal crack for the past 20 years do you really think you'd get off with a "don't do it again" slap on the wrist?
    The IRS only can audit back to up to 3 years here. That's a big reason why us Americans are so perplexed by this.
    foe example HMRC goes back 6 but technically can go back 20 years!, The EU is going back 10 years. Differing juristiction's have differing time limits.
    6 years: Pretty excessive IMO. 10 years: out of bounds. 20 years: outrageous IMO
  • Reply 91 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,112member
    latifbp said:
    foe example HMRC goes back 6 but technically can go back 20 years!, The EU is going back 10 years. Differing juristiction's have differing time limits.
    6 years: Pretty excessive IMO. 10 years: out of bounds. 20 years: outrageous IMO
    Why?  If someone has been cheating the system for 20 years why should they only have to pay back for 10?  Or even 6.

    I wouldn't put a limit on it.
    edited August 2016
  • Reply 92 of 98
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    latifbp said:
    latifbp said:

    crowley said:
    uroshnor said:

    Its an interesting issue of sovereignty , and the retrospective nature of the ruling is understandably worrying. It's one thing to say : this stops now, and completely different to go back 15-20 years and require back payment. 
    That'd make sense if a law was being changed or updated, but there is no change. The rule has been in place for those 20 years, Ireland just hasn't been following it with regard to Apple.

    If you were found to have been making an under the table deal with your IRS auditor to overlook improperly declaring earnings between a legal crack for the past 20 years do you really think you'd get off with a "don't do it again" slap on the wrist?
    The IRS only can audit back to up to 3 years here. That's a big reason why us Americans are so perplexed by this.
    foe example HMRC goes back 6 but technically can go back 20 years!, The EU is going back 10 years. Differing juristiction's have differing time limits.
    6 years: Pretty excessive IMO. 10 years: out of bounds. 20 years: outrageous IMO
    the more egregious the avoidance the more they will go back. Them are the rules and to whet your whistle, In the UK you have to declare the scheme you are using and they reserve the right to retroactively declare your scheme illegal. So for a few years you can think the scheme you are using is legal then BAM you have a hefty tax demand.
  • Reply 93 of 98
    The Turks are offering Apple Inc. semi-Sovereignty. This is not an offer Apple Inc. can dismiss very easily. Turkey has many Islands in the Aegean which can be dedicated to Apple. It would be away from any political instability. 

    Some facts on Turkey's Economy:
    • Turkey is the world’s 16th and Europe’s 6th largest economy. According to HSBC’s “The World in 2050” report, Turkey will be the world’s 12th and Europe’s 5th biggest Economy by 2050. In September 2010, the FTSE Group promoted Turkey from ‘secondary emerging’ status to ‘advanced emerging’ status.

    • Turkey is currently the fastest emerging market of Europe and OECD. Turkish GDP grew by 8.8% in 2011, 2.2% in 2012 and 4% in 2013. The average growth rate in the last decade was 5%, the fastest among the OECD countries, which grew at an average of 1.7%. OECD estimates that Turkey will be the third highest growing country after China and India by 2017 and will surpass India after 2017 to become number two.

    • Turkey’s GDP (current prices) for the year 2013 was $827bn, which rose from $231bn in 2002. GDP per capita nearly tripled since 2002, from $3,500 to $10,815 in 2013. Turkey’s GDP per capita is greater than that of two EU countries, Romania and Bulgaria.

    • Turkey is one of the world’s biggest markets with a population of 76 million and a labour force of 28 million. Half of the population is below the age of 30. Turkey has the highest youth population and 4th largest labour force compared to EU-27 countries.

    • Jim O’neill, former chief economist at Goldman Sachs and creator of the term BRIC, has come up with a new acronym, MINT – (Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria, Turkey) The favourable demographics and the economic prospects of these countries will lead them to be in the top ten countries of the world in the next 20 years.

    • Within 4 hours of flying distance, Turkey has access to 1.5 billion customers in Europe, Eurasia, the Middle East and North Africa and to markets with a total $25 trillion GDP.

    • Istanbul and Ankara are among the biggest cities in the world in terms of GDP. At $180 billion, Istanbul’s GDP surpasses that of many EU countries such as Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and Slovenia. Istanbul is also the second biggest city of Europe after Moscow with 13.7 million inhabitants.

    • Turkey’s net debt to GDP ratio in 2012 is 36% in 2012, which is well below the Maastricht Criterion of 60%. Turkey has been meeting the Maastricht Criterion on public debt since 2004. Similarly, Turkey’s budget deficit/GDP ratio in 2012 is 2%, one of the lowest rates in Europe.

    • In late 2012, Turkey’s sovereign credit rating was raised to “investment grade” by Fitch Ratings. In March 2013, Standard & Poor’s raised Turkey’s sovereign credit rating to (BB-), one level below investment grade. It was followed by Moody’s which raised Turkey’s rating to investment level in May 2013.

    • There are currently 145,000 Turkish entrepreneurs operating in Europe, employing 627,000 people and running €63 billion worth of businesses.

    • There are 32,000 foreign capital enterprises operating in Turkey.

    • According to the Forbes list of World’s Billionaires 2014, there are 43 billionaires in Turkey, 37 of which reside in Istanbul.

    • Starting a business in Turkey takes an average of 6 days, compared to the world average of 30.6 days, MENA average of 23 days and OECD average of 12 days.

    • Over the last 10 years, Turkey attracted more than $100 billion of FDI and ranked as the 13th most attractive FDI destination in 2012.

    • 78% of Turkey’s overall FDI comes from the EU. Turkey has become an investment base for European businesses with increasing integration into the EU’s supply and production chain.

    • Turkey has significantly liberalised its FDI regime. According to the OECD’s Regulatory Restrictiveness Index, Turkey is less restrictive than the OECD average and far less restrictive than the non-OECD average (ranked 27th out of 58 countries in 2013).

    • Turkey’s export volume was $152bn in 2013, more than quadrupling since 2002.

    • Turkey’s major export partners in 2013 were Germany (9%), Iraq (8%) and the UK (5.8%), while major import partners were Russia (10%), Germany (9.6%), China (9.8%) and USA (5%). UK is Turkey’s 8th biggest trade partner with 3.7% market share in its overall trade.

    • Turkey has been in the Customs Union with EU-27 countries since 1995. It has free trade agreements with 19 other countries, in FTA negotiations with 21 countries and 5 country groups.

    • According to Ernst & Young’s M&A (mergers and acquisitions) Barometer report, Turkey’s M&A market had the highest transaction number and volume (297 transactions with $18 billion investment) in 2012 in the Central and South Eastern Europe Region.

    • According to the World Economic Forum’s Global Competitiveness Report for 2012-2013, Turkey moved up 16 places in the global competitiveness rankings last year reaching 43th place among 144 economies and becoming the most competitive country in south-eastern Europe.

    • 33% of big multinational companies use their offices in Turkey as their regional headquarters. Companies that use Turkey as a regional management hub include Benetton, Bosch, BP, Citibank, Coca-Cola, General Electric, GlaxoSmithKline, Hewlett-Packard, Hyundai, Imperial Tobacco, Intel, LG, Mercedes-Benz, Microsoft, Pepsi, Procter Gamble, Samsung, Siemens and Unilever.

    • Turkish banking sector is one of them most robust among Europe. Banking sector’s assets size is $800bn by June 2013, higher than the GDP of many EU countries; has one of the highest capital adequacy ratios (16% compared to the minimum requirement of 8%) and lowest non-performing loan ratios (3%) in Europe. There are 49 banks in Turkey, 32 of them deposit banks, 16 of them foreign.

    • Turkey is one of the fastest growing energy markets in the world. The demand for electricity in the country is estimated to grow at an annual 6% between 2009 and 2023. The total amount of investments to be made to meet the energy demand in Turkey over the next 10 years is estimated around USD 130 billion.

    • Turkey is also playing an increasingly important role in the transit of oil and gas supplies. The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, the second longest oil pipeline in the world, delivers crude oil from the Caspian Sea to Turkey’s Mediterranean coast, from where it is distributed to the world’s markets. The Blue Stream, a major trans-Black Sea gas pipeline, delivers natural gas from Russia to Turkey. There are 2 other major pipelines (TANAP and South Stream) waiting to be completed which will transmit oil and gas from the Caspian region, Russia and the Middle East routed westward to Europe.

    • The renewable energy sector has been injected with billions of dollars in recent years by leading Turkish banks and is expected to grow further. Turkey ranks 1st in the world in terms of growth rate in wind energy plants and only 15% of its potential has been utilized up until now. Turkey aims to increase the ratio of its renewable energy resources to 30% of its total energy production by 2023 from the current 20%.

    • Turkey’s tourism sector is one of the biggest in the world. More than 32 million foreign tourists visited Turkey in 2012 bringing in $24 billion revenue. In 2012, both Turkey was the 6th most visited country in the world. Istanbul is the 6th most visited city in the world and 3rd mostly visited city of Europe, after London and Paris.

    • UK is among the top three sources of tourists to Turkey with over 2.4 million visitors last year. 32,000 Britons own property in Turkey.

    • Turkey is the 8th largest textile and 7th largest clothing exporter in the world by 2011. UK is Turkey’s 2nd largest clothing and 6th largest textile and shoe export market. Turkish companies manufacture the garments of many world renowned retailers, including Adidas, Esprit, Tommy Hilfiger, Gap, Marks & Spencer, Next, Burberry, Banana Republic, H&M and Diesel. Turkey is also the 3rd biggest producer of footwear in Europe. (Tr ayyak sanay der bsk cetin)

    • According to the leading international industry magazine “ENR Engineering News Record”, with 33 companies among the top 225 contracting companies, Turkey ranked as the second country in the world in 2012 after China. Turkish contractors are very active in especially MENA, Central Asia and Sun-Sahara Africa. Since 1970, Turkish contractors have completed about 6.500 projects in 93 countries with $205 billion project value. The construction sector in Turkey is expected to be among the highest growing in the world with an expected growth rate of 8.5% between 2009 and 2014.

    • Turkey has huge growth potential in the real estate sector. According to the 2012 publication of “Emerging Trends in Real Estate Europe”, prepared by PwC and ULI, Istanbul is the most attractive investment market in Europe in the “Existing Property Performance”, “New Property Acquisitions”, and “Development Prospects” categories. Ernst and Young rates Turkey as the second most attractive market in Europe for real estate investors.

    • Turkey is the largest commercial vehicle and second largest bus manufacturer of Europe and the 16th biggest motor vehicle producer of the world. In 2012, 1.1 million vehicles were produced in Turkey, 66% of which were exported. Today, there are 17 companies including Fiat, Honda, Hyundai, Renault and Toyota, Mercedes-Benz and M.A.N manufacturing various types of vehicles in Turkey. Turkey also provides autoparts for brands such as GM, Mercedes, BMW, Opel, Toyota, Fiat and Ford. (OSD)(MoI)

    • Turkey has risen to become Europe’s largest home appliances manufacturer. Turkey’s largest white goods export market is Europe which is led by the UK, France and Germany. Turkish brand Beko is currently the leading white goods brand in the UK, becoming the number one selling brand in refrigeration, freezers, and washing machines and cooking devices.

    • Turkey is the number one TV manufacturer in Europe. Turkey’s Vestel and Beko account for over half of all TV sets manufactured in Europe.

    • The Turkish ICT sector is a fast growing sector with an annual growth rate of 14% between 2005 and 2010. According to Business Monitor International predictions, Turkey will be the highest growing IT market in the period between 2009 and 2014.

    • Supported by a young and tech-savvy population and over 20 million internet users, Turkey’s e-commerce market is set to grow exponentially. The $17 billion e-commerce volume registered in 2012 is expected to rise at an annual rate of 123% over the next 3 years to reach $140 billion.

    • Of some 68 million mobile phones registered in the country, 58%feature the 3G technology – almost twice as many as on European average. By 2014, the mobile phone penetration is expected to reach 113%. With an average airtime of 299 minutes per month, Turks are the most avid mobile phone users in all of Europe.

    • Turkey is one of the leading countries in the world in agriculture and related industries. Turkey is the world’s 7th largest producer of fruits and vegetables, Europe’s largest and the world’s 3rd largest frozen fruit exporter and has the largest milk and dairy production in its region.

    • Turkey is Europe’s 2nd largest iron and steel maker and the world’s leading producer of construction iron.

    • Turkey is the world’s 4th largest mega-yacht manufacturer and 5th largest shipbuilding country.

    • Turkey has the second largest army in NATO, after USA.

  • Reply 94 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,112member
    I don't necessarily doubt any of that, but please post sources.
  • Reply 95 of 98
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    crowley said:
    I don't necessarily doubt any of that, but please post sources.
    looks like the source was
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/turkey-latest-killer-facts-about-the-economy/turkey-latest-killer-facts-about-the-economy
  • Reply 96 of 98
    crowley said:
    latifbp said:
    foe example HMRC goes back 6 but technically can go back 20 years!, The EU is going back 10 years. Differing juristiction's have differing time limits.
    6 years: Pretty excessive IMO. 10 years: out of bounds. 20 years: outrageous IMO
    Why?  If someone has been cheating the system for 20 years why should they only have to pay back for 10?  Or even 6.

    I wouldn't put a limit on it.
    It could destroy an individual or small business. If they were making a non-mall city's mistake how does one assess the secerity of the breach objectively? I think a general limit on back tax collection helps modulate that risk.
  • Reply 97 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,112member
    latifbp said:
    crowley said:
    latifbp said:
    foe example HMRC goes back 6 but technically can go back 20 years!, The EU is going back 10 years. Differing juristiction's have differing time limits.
    6 years: Pretty excessive IMO. 10 years: out of bounds. 20 years: outrageous IMO
    Why?  If someone has been cheating the system for 20 years why should they only have to pay back for 10?  Or even 6.

    I wouldn't put a limit on it.
    It could destroy an individual or small business. If they were making a non-mall city's mistake how does one assess the secerity of the breach objectively? I think a general limit on back tax collection helps modulate that risk.
    I'm not sure what a non-mall city is supposed to be, or why it's relevant, but why does the sincerity of the breach matter?  We aren't talking about a penalty, just back payment. If it threatens to destroy the individual or business then leniency regarding payment plans can be an option.
  • Reply 98 of 98
    latifbp said:

    nikon133 said:
    I was there last year and most business people I spoke to were a bit ticked off they were rejected but then went on to say in hindsight they were glad they were.  At that time their economy was doing way better than many EU countries.  The complication for the west in all this of course is Turkey guarding the only access the Russia Navy has to Sevastopol.  It's a choke hold the west needs to keep and bribery, sorry I mean negotiations will be needed I'm sure.  NATO membership already gained so what's next absent EU membership I wonder.
    I don't understand west's obsession with Russia. Personally, I'm more worried with growth of radicals in middle-east, which Turkey just might be a big part of.

    Additionally... in any real crisis, I cannot see Turkey being really able to guard that access. Not to mention that they seem to be keen on switching sides or, at least, sitting on two chairs, for as much as it benefits them. How long did it take them to hug and kiss with Putin, after grounding that Russian jet?

    I don't see them as valuable and trustworthy partner, not under current management at least.

    I don't disagree.  I guess a cruise missile or two can be launched just as easily from the Mediterranean these days.  It's Cold War thinking to attribute too much importance to guarding narrow sea straights.  My bad.
    let me smite this scorner. the creator of terrorism is western countries. Turkey does not harbor OpusDei like terrorist Fetullah Gulen. The best times of Turkey is under Erdogan but hey, not everyone liked Steve Jobs style. I remember people like these calling him "middle eastern" And hey, face-a-book and check western history and make sure that you understand all colonialists were calling the leaders of free countries "dictators" and they are the ones not keeping their words. Just a reminder. Yet in Syria West has the blood in their hands but oh, Turkey accomodates 3 million refugees. And some Western hypocrites just watch the news, following their lusts not take heed of whats going on in the world or give a hand to a refugee. But "Erdogan is a dictator." How can a view become so twisted??

    You don't recall people protesting Erdogan and being hosed and tear gassed 2-3 years ago? 
    well, allow me to correct you on that, sir. Nowadays we have intelligence confirming undoubtedly that those protests were arranged by some very well know organizations (FETO by CFR) and they were organized so greatly, even Gene Sharp would have been surprised. They were again so meticolously organized even CNN was ready at Taksim 3 days before the event to braodcast the events internationally wishing it would be like any Arab countries. Oh, a coincidence? I dont think so, sir. The same Chritiane Amanpour were in Istanbul 2 days before coup attempt.
    And Turkey's past is Ottoman Empire. Turks are very different than Persians or Arabs. 
    So, i think it is time to cut the non sense and try to become the best version of ourselves. And We need an environment for that. Before 911 USA was that environment. Not anymore. Very sadly so...
    I believe Erdogan is trying to create the best environment for the Turks. They are tired from European hypocrisy. 
    Yes, his methods are not western. It is a given.
    HE IS EURASIAN, sir. Totally diffrent culture and understanding. I am very much OK with that.
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