Microsoft Surface sales boom amid tepid iPad demand

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 72
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,434member
    "As usual, the company did not reveal total unit sales."

    Market non-starter. 

    Like it's been this entire time. 


    So do you feel the same about the Watch for the same reason?
  • Reply 42 of 72
    sog35 said:
    Surface isn't a tablet. Its a think laptop just like the Macbook.

    iPad sales are down for one simple reason - bigger iPhones. Many former iPad buyers are just using large phones instead.

    Also, iPads have a long usable lifespan.  My household has a few generations of iPads in regular or semi-regular use and there's no "device envy" between generations.  So if you wanted an iPad, you got one and it'll be a few years before you buy another.  iPhones on the other hand are regularly replaced after 2 years (in my household).
    cali
  • Reply 43 of 72
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    tmay said:
    jhart376 said:
    Readers of these results need to stop living in the past. Microsoft is not the arch enemy/competitor of Apple anymore. Google is. The Surface is really a Microsoft PC competing against other PCs like Lenovo Yoga, etc. Their big wins are in cloud computing where Apple does not really play. They still have a huge, but declining legacy OS revenue stream and Office still does well. The interesting business-market story is how far it can go in corporate desktop share leveraging its relationship and data from IBM rollouts (and new partnerships with Deloitte, SAP, etc).
    But Microsoft can't advertise against its own OEMs so all of the Surface and Windows advertising is squarely aimed at the Mac. Same with the Pixel phone. Google's target is Apple. It seems clear to me both Microsoft and Google have decided chasing the low end is a non starter so they're going to chase Apple at the high end. Panos Panay who oversees the Surface line at Microsoft has said he wakes up every day thinking about Apple. Microsoft is rumored to be introducing an AIO desktop next week. Guarantee you they're targeting the iMac. And with Apple letting the Mac Pro languish I'm sure Microsoft thinks they can steal share from Apple with creative pros (see link below).

    http://cdm.link/2016/09/apples-relationship-pro-music-needs-mending/
    Gee, if only Apple didn't have to wait for Intel to deliver a chipset and CPU supporting TB 3, which BTW, MS hasn't made available on Surface. Panay isn't going to gain Pro users without TB; it's the bandwidth, and Apple will have it next week, no thanks to Intel's delay in CPU's and chipsets. 

    As for the Mac Pro, I have no idea if it will be refreshed or when, but why the fuck are Pro's still pining for towers? 
    All the laptops below support TB 3. Do MacBook Pro's use special chips that no one else does?

    http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10579-laptops-thunderbolt-3/
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/09/05/intel-kaby-lake-cpus-suitable-for-macbook-pro-refresh-said-to-be-in-manufacturers-hands

    "Also included in the seventh generation Kaby Lake processor is integrated support for the 40 Gbps Thunderbolt 3, which uses the same connector as USB 3.1 type C, as well as the ability to use "passive" cabling for 10 Gbps speeds. Thunderbolt 3 has sufficient bandwidth to drive a pair of 4K displays at 60Hz, and contains HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.2."

    Integrated support is the key, and for the record, Sky Lake had a lot of issues that created problems for Surface.

    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/64095/welcome-to-surfacegate


    edited October 2016 cali
  • Reply 44 of 72
    sog35 said:
    To: lordjohnwhorfin I have a Surface Pro 4 and it's a great laptop and a great tablet. The fact that I can use a pen to take notes at a meeting without clacking on a keyboard, or even needing a desk is extremely helpful. The fact that I can run x86 software and easily connect to an external monitor or wirelessly connect to a video projector or LCD TV is even more helpful. The SP4 is less weighty than a laptop and a tablet, it is less costly than a good laptop and a tablet that supports a digital stylus, and it is more convenient. At this point, I could not imagine myself being constrained by the limitations of using a laptop or a tablet when I can have the benefits of both in one device. And I absolutely cannot stand the limitations not having a touch capable screen.
    1 POST. 

    LOL. Did not read. Sorry, you didn't impress me with your first sentence. Get better son.
    Why do you bother telling people you didn't read their posts instead of just not reading them? You have 10k posts but 90% of them are inane comments about how you didn't read someone's post. Literally no one else here cares
    freshmaker
  • Reply 45 of 72
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,254member
    70% YoY growth is not too shabby.  At that rate, it won't be long till Surface sales match Mac or iPad sales.
    YoY growth numbers are easy starting from ...  how many did MS give away again?
    cali
  • Reply 46 of 72
    The only reason Surface exists is because Cloud and Office aren't sexy and the tech press is obsessed with shiny gadgets. Tech sites like The Verge wouldn't give Microsoft the time of day if not for shiny Surface gadgets they can ogle over.
  • Reply 47 of 72
    512ke512ke Posts: 782member
    It makes sense that iPad sales would decline, given the overwhelming success of the larger screen iPhones, which do everything the iPad does and more. If you have an iPhobe with a big screen, in most cases that is all you need, no? The iPad made more sense in the era of the iPhone 4 etc.
    canukstorm
  • Reply 48 of 72
    kevtkevt Posts: 195member
    ireland said:
    I sell you 2 pencils this year. I sell you 10 next year. Sales up 500%.

    D'oh. Your point is kind of lost when you get the maths wrong.

    Your sales up 400%.
  • Reply 49 of 72
    simply258 said:
    Why is the Surface being compared to an iPad? Surface has a full blown OS and as can be seen in the first photo that's a Surface Book which is basically a touchscreen laptop with a keyboard that detaches. People who are buying Surface are not in the market for tablets but laptops. So really they should be compared to sales of other laptops and MacBooks.
    Agreed. The MS Advertising is all based around what you can do on a Surface and can't do on a Mac not an iPad. Perhaps the hacks think of the Surface is just a tablet?

    Except that, depending on your Mac, you can, and have been able to for a great many years. The fact of the matter for myself, and many other professional users, is that we can't do our work on a tablet (or at times, any type of portable)! Still, we are not the ones anyone needs to convince, and I guess Microsoft's reverse 'I'm a Mac' ads are working to an extent. I'll be very curious to see what Apple gives us later in the month. 
  • Reply 50 of 72
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member
    To: lordjohnwhorfin I have a Surface Pro 4 and it's a great laptop and a great tablet. The fact that I can use a pen to take notes at a meeting without clacking on a keyboard, or even needing a desk is extremely helpful. The fact that I can run x86 software and easily connect to an external monitor or wirelessly connect to a video projector or LCD TV is even more helpful. The SP4 is less weighty than a laptop and a tablet, it is less costly than a good laptop and a tablet that supports a digital stylus, and it is more convenient. At this point, I could not imagine myself being constrained by the limitations of using a laptop or a tablet when I can have the benefits of both in one device. And I absolutely cannot stand the limitations not having a touch capable screen.
    Thank you, Mr. 1 Post...Float and Fly car...User Experience is shit.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 51 of 72
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member
    gticus said:
    My girlfriend was given a MS tablet, not the latest SP4 so I can't speak for them, but she didn't like it and thought it cumbersome and I had to work on it adjusting/changing/fixing stuff and after a while I couldn't stand it (spoiled by my iPad Air and recently purchased iPad Air 2) so I gave her my older iPad Air and she took to it right away and has absolutely loved it since (her iPad is her go to home device abandoning the MS tablet and her Windows desktop completely - the MS tablet is kind of hidden on the bottom part of the coffee table gathering dust).

    I've had 2 Windows and 2 Samsung phones through work (they don't have iPhones as a choice), currently went back to Windows phone with the 640 XL (not a Samsung fan).  The windows phone is a POS --- OK for my work calls and texting and just OK photos (terrible low light adjustments both photos and video) but recurring, and I mean very much recurring, problems include nearly unusable when plugged in, random power downs, unfriendly IE browsing (screen movements, etc. - my much smaller 1 generation old iPod touch is much better using Safari), random IE closures, it loses about a second every couple/few days versus my "i" devices where I have to shut down to put it back in sync (the random power downs sometime take care of this for me so that's a plus!?), unreliable internet sharing (again, seem to need to shut down to clear it up), etc.

    I've been using Windows devices for a long time for work/personal (not so much personal anymore) and made my living with Windows based software and I used to be very anti-Apple (late 90s to early 2000s) --- I remember going into an electronics store I think late 90s and having a feeling of disgust looking at the new colorful iMacs and their non-business looking icons.  I'm embarrassed it took me so long to rid myself of my ignorance.
    Same here, number 1 anti-Mac until I saw my sister who worked go IBM for 15 years buying a MacBook to use at home. Even though I had iPhone and iPad for a while, I still refuse to use Mac because I think they sucked with close system. I made my first Mac purchase in 2010: a Mac Mini Recording Studio. Since then, I never use Windows again. 
    lostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 72
    Microsoft surges on earnings and Apple will likely tank. That is the bottom line for shareholders. Microsoft is now making the right choices for survival and Apple doesn't seem to be doing anything worthwhile. MS quickly replaced a dwindling Windows market with another strategy. Apple had the opportunity to make inroads into the cloud market but decided to pursue some AppleWatch which almost no one sees as being valuable to the company. Apparently, big investors believe the Surface is doing better than the iPad and that's quite a perception problem for Apple. Microsoft's plusses seem to outweigh Apple's plusses by quite a bit. Exactly which direction is Apple's path leading to?

    Here's how I see the Wall Street story unfolding. Apple iPhone sales are down globally, quarter after quarter of iPad sales decline, Mac sales are down YoY and AppleWatch sales have never met investor expectations. That all adds up to minuses which means Apple stock will take yet another dive. I'm not sure what Tim Cook's big picture is, but it doesn't look good for shareholders. I'm not sure what Apple's goals are as everything seems so muddled to me. A company which should be doing well, maybe better than well, isn't moving at all. Why? The company doesn't seem to have any direction in it. If only Apple could sell inexpensive content to leverage hardware sales but that also doesn't seem likely. Microsoft's Surface Pro is such a tiny part of Microsoft's business, so every little gain is seen as a big win to investors.
    edited October 2016 entropys
  • Reply 53 of 72
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  • Reply 54 of 72
    jungmark said:
    < $1 bn in revenue? 

    Let's see how much the iPad made last qtr in the next week. 

    Surprised headline didn't read : Surface number 1 in 2-in-1 devices made by Microsoft 
    Well, they do have to bait and tease the readers here to generate the volume of irate replies we're known for. Nothing in this world comes without a cost.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 55 of 72
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    kevt said:
    ireland said:
    I sell you 2 pencils this year. I sell you 10 next year. Sales up 500%.

    D'oh. Your point is kind of lost when you get the maths wrong.

    Your sales up 400%.
    nonsense, the point is exactly the same. percentages and conclusions to undisclosed numbers are meaningless. 
  • Reply 56 of 72
    danvmdanvm Posts: 755member
    red oak said:
    It is widely estimated that Microsoft sells about 1 million Surface devices per quarter.   That is a far cry from the 10-15 million iPads + 4-5 million Macs sold per quarter. 

    AI - Do some basic research or come up with an estimate based on the revenue number and ASP 

    Complete click-bait article 
    iPad comparison is dumb. Surface is a laptop period. You never see anyone using it without the keyboard attached or in portrait mode. Microsoft fanboys call it a tablet when they think it's a favorable comparison to iPad and a laptop when they think it's a favorable comparison to MacBook Air. Fact is it's not the best of either.
    Maybe the SP4 is not the best tablet or notebook.  But still a better desktop replacement than an iPad Pro, that is what Apple is trying to push.  And as a Tablet, I suppose is not as bad as you mention, specially when the customer satisfaction is as good as iPads. 

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-surface-apples-ipad-in-customer-satisfaction-dead-heat/
    freshmaker
  • Reply 57 of 72
    qwweraqwwera Posts: 269member
    There is a lot of advertising for the Surface. And frankly, I like the "idea" of the iPad but it's just not an ergonomic device. After getting the 7 plus I have no desire whatsoever to touch an iPad. 

    The bigger Pro is a different story because of the pen support and the fact that it's not really meant to be hand held but used on a table. I always found the iPad mini awkward to hold, even more so the bigger 9.7. 

    The Plus iPhones and an updated 5.5 iPod touch should replace the iPads and Apple should just focus on the larger Pro iPad. Get rid of the mini snd 9.7 iPads.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 58 of 72
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 267member
    I'm still rock'n a 4 - and haven't been motivated to upgrade yet.
    The pro is a step in the right direction, but not at the price point they are asking with extremely limited software that utilizes the tech.
    It's an awkward time for the iPad. It's a media consumption device trying to be a production tool - but it's not quite there yet for professionals. (maybe music).
    Integration between the ios /osx apple software is a non-starter. When they get that streamlined, then watch out... (Keynote for example - PP integrates better on Mac).
    entropyscornchip
  • Reply 59 of 72
    sog35 said:
    bitmod said:
    I'm still rock'n a 4 - and haven't been motivated to upgrade yet.
    The pro is a step in the right direction, but not at the price point they are asking with extremely limited software that utilizes the tech.
    It's an awkward time for the iPad. It's a media consumption device trying to be a production tool - but it's not quite there yet for professionals. (maybe music).
    Integration between the ios /osx apple software is a non-starter. When they get that streamlined, then watch out... (Keynote for example - PP integrates better on Mac).
    You probably need to upgrade next year. iOS 11 won't work on iPad4
    Assuming iOS 11 becomes 64-bit only, you're correct.
  • Reply 60 of 72
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    Sorry, meant 38% YoY.  70% number is related to commercial deployments.
    It's not hard to hit those numbers when you don't sell very many.

    eg, if Microsoft only sold 100, they'd only need to sell 138 to make that 38% YoY number.

    This is the problem with a lot of IT numbers. You can make any number look good by simply narrowing the focus. 38% Surface, vs 72% losses in the Windows Phone division?

    Like, I'll bite, I'd rather Microsoft keep selling the Surface because it's the only viable x86 tablet computer, and that makes it a much better value than the Cintiq Companion which costs twice but is only half as capable. That said, the digitizer in the Surface Pro 3 and later is rubbish, and Microsoft bought n-Trig (the technology used in the SP3 digitizer) presumably to improve it. 

    That's the closest anyone will get to something comparable to the iPad without being complete rubbish.

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