No touchscreens coming to pro Macs, says Apple's Phil Schiller

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 67
    gumbigumbi Posts: 148member
    brucemc said:
    As for touchscreen Macs, I have yet to hear how people can advocate for both of these (as they often do on this forum, although in different threads):

    1) Touchscreen Macs are required as it is far easier / more intuitive just to touch what you want...

    2) iPad needs mouse support to be truly usable and productive, as the UI with finger is a cumbersome workflow...



    It's quite easy to reconcile - having both is optimal.  Touch on a windows laptop or even a surface device definitely does not replace mouse input - however, it does enhance the overall user experience.  The mouse is better when you need very precise cursor location - like editing a document or spreadsheet.  Touch is easier for quick tasks that don't need great precision - like scrolling a webpage or quickly hitting a button on a dialog box.  For those sort of tasks, I find it much faster to reach out and touch the screen rather than reach sideways for a mouse or backwards for a touchpad.

    Those comments about Gorilla arm are just plain ridiculous.  No one is saying use touch 100% of the time on a windows device.  It's really only a problem on iOS based devices, since they don't have mouse support.

    edac2
  • Reply 22 of 67
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    xzu said:
    A laptop motherboard
    This hasn’t been the case for years.
    A screen that is useless to me in 3 years because
    You can use an iMac as a standalone display. This has been the case for years.
    pre-determined obsolescence. 
    Don’t use phrases when you don’t know what they mean.
    edited April 2017 Rayz2016baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 67
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member
    sog35 said:
    danvm said:
    macxpress said:
    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    Is there any evidence that any Microsoft computer selling? Touchscreens on a desktop are the biggest gimmick I've ever seen. I would almost go as far as saying touchscreen on a laptop are a gimmick too. 
    I haven't read a negative review of the Surface Studio yet, so it looks like that a usable desktop touchscreen is possible.  But it looks like Apple wasn't ready to make it happen. 
    All the reviews of the Surface Studio say the same thing: fast computer, beautiful screen,..............but ridiculously expensive. 
    Do you know that people say the same the same thing from Apple devices?

    And only worth it for a very very very small niche of the population AKA graphic designers and artists............who have $$$$ to burn.
    Yes, your are right.  Looks like the Surface Studio is worth the money for those users.  At least someone is innovating in the creative PC market, but too bad isn't Apple. 
    singularity
  • Reply 24 of 67
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member
    minglok50 said:
    sog35 said:
    danvm said:
    macxpress said:
    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    Is there any evidence that any Microsoft computer selling? Touchscreens on a desktop are the biggest gimmick I've ever seen. I would almost go as far as saying touchscreen on a laptop are a gimmick too. 
    I haven't read a negative review of the Surface Studio yet, so it looks like that a usable desktop touchscreen is possible.  But it looks like Apple wasn't ready to make it happen. 
    All the reviews of the Surface Studio say the same thing: fast computer, beautiful screen,..............but ridiculously expensive.  And only worth it for a very very very small niche of the population AKA graphic designers and artists............who have $$$$ to burn.
    The majority of graphic designers use Macs, so the Surface Studio wouldn't be an option.
    Too bad it's not an option.  Don't you think graphic designers would benefit from a device as the Surface Studio in the Mac ecosystem?
    edac2
  • Reply 25 of 67
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,125member
    Re:"Maybe even write the necessary drivers for macOS.  For example, when developing iOS apps, wouldn't it be nice if you could use your fingers and have the iOS Simulator accept touch input?  I know I would love that!  Pen input too!  You could debug your Apple Pencil specific code on your Mac!"

    This seems like a reasonable use case, but overly narrow and insufficient to justify making a major change to an entire product line. It likely doesn't meet the 80/20 rule or qualify as an essential use case, but it is one of the few cases that would benefit from touch input. Other cases that fall into this category include kiosks and POS systems. However, the iPad product line, and especially the iPad Pro, is an even better fit for kiosks/POS use cases. I'm surprised that a tethered version of the Apple Pencil and Touch ID reader are not being used in POS applications already instead of current pin pad devices.

    As far as the iPad Pro with keyboard, I agree that the current combination of keyboard plus touchscreen feels clumsy at times. The more I use this combination the more I realize what's missing from the iPad Pro keyboard for these scenarios is a trackpad. In other words, to make the iPad Pro feel like a true notebook I'd want to have a trackpad. And while you're at it you may as well also throw in a Touch Bar. That way I never have to leave the keyboard to touch the screen! So what I'm really saying is that the optimal notebook experience is achieved when you obviate its need for a touch screen. Likewise, the optimal iPad touch experience is achieved when you obviate its need for a keyboard. Any other combination is a clumsy compromise.

    Hmm, maybe these Apple designers are on to something.....
    edited April 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 67
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member
    minglok50 said:

    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    I don't have any sales numbers because where I live (Canada) you can't even buy them yet - only pre-order.  That said, it looks like a wonderful device, a fantastic display. Really, the "ultimate" Surface Studio would be for them to remove the computer bits, and for it to only be a display.  And then you plug it into a PC if your choice.  Then, you can build a monumentally powerful computer that isn't as thermally constrained, and that you can upgrade from time to time.

    Maybe even write the necessary drivers for macOS.  For example, when developing iOS apps, wouldn't it be nice if you could use your fingers and have the iOS Simulator accept touch input?  I know I would love that!  Pen input too!  You could debug your Apple Pencil specific code on your Mac!

    Seriously, I wish Cupertino would fire up their photocopiers.  If Apple could make the iMac more like the Surface Studio, it would be a better product.
    What evidence do you have in saying the Surface Studio is a better machine to an iMac? As someone who works in the graphic design industry the thought of using a touchscreen monitor makes little sense. How many fingerprints would be over the screen when you clearly need a smudge free display to create work.
    If smudge is an issue to create work, how does people are doing it in their Surface devices and iPad Pro?
  • Reply 27 of 67
    danvm said:
    minglok50 said:

    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    I don't have any sales numbers because where I live (Canada) you can't even buy them yet - only pre-order.  That said, it looks like a wonderful device, a fantastic display. Really, the "ultimate" Surface Studio would be for them to remove the computer bits, and for it to only be a display.  And then you plug it into a PC if your choice.  Then, you can build a monumentally powerful computer that isn't as thermally constrained, and that you can upgrade from time to time.

    Maybe even write the necessary drivers for macOS.  For example, when developing iOS apps, wouldn't it be nice if you could use your fingers and have the iOS Simulator accept touch input?  I know I would love that!  Pen input too!  You could debug your Apple Pencil specific code on your Mac!

    Seriously, I wish Cupertino would fire up their photocopiers.  If Apple could make the iMac more like the Surface Studio, it would be a better product.
    What evidence do you have in saying the Surface Studio is a better machine to an iMac? As someone who works in the graphic design industry the thought of using a touchscreen monitor makes little sense. How many fingerprints would be over the screen when you clearly need a smudge free display to create work.
    If smudge is an issue to create work, how does people are doing it in their Surface devices and iPad Pro?
    I don't know any designers/production artworker who use a Surface or iPad Pro to do their daily work so your point isn't relevant this time. Even if designers use laptops, they are usually hooked up to a larger display.
    baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 67
    danvm said:
    minglok50 said:
    sog35 said:
    danvm said:
    macxpress said:
    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    Is there any evidence that any Microsoft computer selling? Touchscreens on a desktop are the biggest gimmick I've ever seen. I would almost go as far as saying touchscreen on a laptop are a gimmick too. 
    I haven't read a negative review of the Surface Studio yet, so it looks like that a usable desktop touchscreen is possible.  But it looks like Apple wasn't ready to make it happen. 
    All the reviews of the Surface Studio say the same thing: fast computer, beautiful screen,..............but ridiculously expensive.  And only worth it for a very very very small niche of the population AKA graphic designers and artists............who have $$$$ to burn.
    The majority of graphic designers use Macs, so the Surface Studio wouldn't be an option.
    Too bad it's not an option.  Don't you think graphic designers would benefit from a device as the Surface Studio in the Mac ecosystem?
    The premise is interesting, but unless you are an illustrator I don't think it work in a day to day design studio. The Surface Studio also seems to take up a lot of desk space.
    baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 67
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member
    minglok50 said:
    danvm said:
    minglok50 said:

    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    I don't have any sales numbers because where I live (Canada) you can't even buy them yet - only pre-order.  That said, it looks like a wonderful device, a fantastic display. Really, the "ultimate" Surface Studio would be for them to remove the computer bits, and for it to only be a display.  And then you plug it into a PC if your choice.  Then, you can build a monumentally powerful computer that isn't as thermally constrained, and that you can upgrade from time to time.

    Maybe even write the necessary drivers for macOS.  For example, when developing iOS apps, wouldn't it be nice if you could use your fingers and have the iOS Simulator accept touch input?  I know I would love that!  Pen input too!  You could debug your Apple Pencil specific code on your Mac!

    Seriously, I wish Cupertino would fire up their photocopiers.  If Apple could make the iMac more like the Surface Studio, it would be a better product.
    What evidence do you have in saying the Surface Studio is a better machine to an iMac? As someone who works in the graphic design industry the thought of using a touchscreen monitor makes little sense. How many fingerprints would be over the screen when you clearly need a smudge free display to create work.
    If smudge is an issue to create work, how does people are doing it in their Surface devices and iPad Pro?
    I don't know any designers/production artworker who use a Surface or iPad Pro to do their daily work so your point isn't relevant this time. Even if designers use laptops, they are usually hooked up to a larger display.
    You'll find in Google many people who use iPads and Surface for art work.  Here are two examples,

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/09/stranger-things-poster-created-using-apples-ipad-pro-and-apple-pencil
    https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surface-studio

    And I haven't seen how smudge limits their creativity or workflow.  Still, I would love to see smudge disappear, and I hope someone develops something to solve this issue. 
  • Reply 30 of 67
    Not all products need to be the same product.  I say if the Microsoft Surface computer is a great product ... and it might be ... go ahead and buy one.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 67
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,297member
    brif said:
    I fully agree. Touch on vertical surfaces doesn't work. I know, I tried using iPad Pro with a keyboard - something Apple claims can replace a computer... *facepalm*
    Er, an iPad is a computer. Do you mean replace all tasks that all people do on all desktop computers? Yeah good luck with that.
    ration alstarwarswatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 67
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,730member
    I think Apple would rather expand the touchpad/magic pad idea; make it into a screen that can act as as touchpad/keyboard/drawing tablet.
    raoulduke42watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 67
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,358member
    "Apple isn't planning to offer touchscreens on any of its upcoming professional-level Macs"

    Not that I think it's true, but Phil could be saying ' ... they will only be on non Pro models' ...  just saying.  ;)
  • Reply 34 of 67
    danvm said:
    mknelson said:
    danvm said: I haven't read a negative review of the Surface Studio yet, so it looks like that a usable desktop touchscreen is possible.  But it looks like Apple wasn't ready to make it happen.  
    Usable is one thing - many graphics/photo professionals are borderline paranoid about glare/reflections for good reason and fingerprints and smudges are worse!
    iMac's have reflective screen for years, including the 5K model, and many professionals still use them without issues.  Regarding fingerprints and smudges, that's part of a touchscreen, same as iPads, and people still use them.  But I hope both issues get better in future versions.
    There is a world of difference between moving an iPad screen a few degrees to get rid of the reflections to possibly constantly moving a desktop screen.
    TBH, my iPad Mini has an anti-glare screen on it and my 4K monitor is Matte so I don't have issues with reflections on it. If I got an iMac then I would put an anti-glare screen on it just because of where I'd use it.
  • Reply 35 of 67
    edac2edac2 Posts: 21member
    danvm said:
    minglok50 said:
    sog35 said:
    danvm said:
    macxpress said:
    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    Is there any evidence that any Microsoft computer selling? Touchscreens on a desktop are the biggest gimmick I've ever seen. I would almost go as far as saying touchscreen on a laptop are a gimmick too. 
    I haven't read a negative review of the Surface Studio yet, so it looks like that a usable desktop touchscreen is possible.  But it looks like Apple wasn't ready to make it happen. 
    All the reviews of the Surface Studio say the same thing: fast computer, beautiful screen,..............but ridiculously expensive.  And only worth it for a very very very small niche of the population AKA graphic designers and artists............who have $$$$ to burn.
    The majority of graphic designers use Macs, so the Surface Studio wouldn't be an option.
    Too bad it's not an option.  Don't you think graphic designers would benefit from a device as the Surface Studio in the Mac ecosystem?
    If the Surface Pro could be hacked to run macOS, then in almost every respect it would be nicer than current iMacs. The current iMac form factor hasn't changed since the "Luxo lamp" iMacs, which had a much more useful tilt screen on a swiveling arm.
  • Reply 36 of 67
    danvm said:
    minglok50 said:
    danvm said:
    minglok50 said:

    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    I don't have any sales numbers because where I live (Canada) you can't even buy them yet - only pre-order.  That said, it looks like a wonderful device, a fantastic display. Really, the "ultimate" Surface Studio would be for them to remove the computer bits, and for it to only be a display.  And then you plug it into a PC if your choice.  Then, you can build a monumentally powerful computer that isn't as thermally constrained, and that you can upgrade from time to time.

    Maybe even write the necessary drivers for macOS.  For example, when developing iOS apps, wouldn't it be nice if you could use your fingers and have the iOS Simulator accept touch input?  I know I would love that!  Pen input too!  You could debug your Apple Pencil specific code on your Mac!

    Seriously, I wish Cupertino would fire up their photocopiers.  If Apple could make the iMac more like the Surface Studio, it would be a better product.
    What evidence do you have in saying the Surface Studio is a better machine to an iMac? As someone who works in the graphic design industry the thought of using a touchscreen monitor makes little sense. How many fingerprints would be over the screen when you clearly need a smudge free display to create work.
    If smudge is an issue to create work, how does people are doing it in their Surface devices and iPad Pro?
    I don't know any designers/production artworker who use a Surface or iPad Pro to do their daily work so your point isn't relevant this time. Even if designers use laptops, they are usually hooked up to a larger display.
    You'll find in Google many people who use iPads and Surface for art work.  Here are two examples,

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/09/stranger-things-poster-created-using-apples-ipad-pro-and-apple-pencil
    https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surface-studio

    And I haven't seen how smudge limits their creativity or workflow.  Still, I would love to see smudge disappear, and I hope someone develops something to solve this issue. 
    I think you're mistaking creating art and a Production Artworker setting up design files for print. The latter relates to the graphic design industry which I have worked in for 19 years. My job cannot be done on a Surface or iPad.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 67
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Rayz2016 said:
    I think Apple would rather expand the touchpad/magic pad idea; make it into a screen that can act as as touchpad/keyboard/drawing tablet.
    But that's awful. I hate the disconnect when using my tablet to draw in OS X. What would be useful is a desktop with a stand that allows the user to rotate the whole thing downward to operate like a drafting table. Of course no one wants a vertical touchscreen, but who says it has to be when actually using it? Remember the versatility of the G4 iMac? I get that we're talking about a far more complex stand now, but if anyone can do it it'd be Apple. Rotate up for data consumption, rotate down for data production. You could even emulate a soundboard or video editing station in touchscreen mode. Re-skeuomorphize it! :p
  • Reply 38 of 67
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,162member
    brucemc said:
    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    I was going to ask the same thing.  Positive reviews are nice, but in the end meaningless as to whether a product sells well or is a success.  I think Surface Studio looks good, is an interesting option for those in its niche, but given its price tag & target market I expect sales to be less than Apple's Mac Pro have been.
    That’s beauty of the anonymous Internet. Anybody or any company or analyst can say anything without having to prove it. An anonymous poster can  come in here and say the Surface Studio is beating Apple’s brains in and certain people will take it as fact, no documentation needed. It’s a wondrous thing this Internet.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 67
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,057member
    I'm fine with this. But they should at least have a first party built in way to use an iPad as a Mac drawing tablet rather than relying on hacky third parties. And also the larger Macbook Pro trackpads would ideally support Pencil in the future. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 67
    jorgiejorgie Posts: 37member
    minglok50 said:
    sog35 said:
    danvm said:
    macxpress said:
    Is there any evidence the Surface Studio is selling? 
    Is there any evidence that any Microsoft computer selling? Touchscreens on a desktop are the biggest gimmick I've ever seen. I would almost go as far as saying touchscreen on a laptop are a gimmick too. 
    I haven't read a negative review of the Surface Studio yet, so it looks like that a usable desktop touchscreen is possible.  But it looks like Apple wasn't ready to make it happen. 
    All the reviews of the Surface Studio say the same thing: fast computer, beautiful screen,..............but ridiculously expensive.  And only worth it for a very very very small niche of the population AKA graphic designers and artists............who have $$$$ to burn.
    The majority of graphic designers use Macs, so the Surface Studio wouldn't be an option.
    That's BS... Once you launch the Adobe product of choice, the OS just doesn't matter.
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