A very false narrative: Samsung Galaxy S8 vs Apple's iPhone

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  • Reply 141 of 167
    cali said:
    avon b7 said:
    minglok50 said:
    saltyzip said:
    As long as the faithful stay with an iPhone then Apple has many more profitable years ahead.

    The problem for the iPhone is not Samsung, like appleinsider seems to think, it is Android in general.

    Google, LG, Motorola, Huawei all make great phones and most eclipse iPhone on the camera too. Look at the verge website for their latest camera shootout and you'll see iPhone doesn't even make the podium.

    Apple phone inovation has plateaued​, technical advancement takes a long time, and because they are running out of features to entice people to upgrade they are now falling behind what was the chasing pack.

    As long as the Apple faithful continue buying iPhones, then nothing will change, but don't expect to get best bang for your buck.
    You are citing `the Verge as a credible balanced site...
    You are posting in thread hanging off a DED article. Balance is not something that springs to mind.
    DED presents facts and shoves them down your throat. Somethingvthe oaid Sammy shills won't do. 

    saltyzip said:
    blastdoor said:

    The thing that really is kind of crazy is how bad Android phones are at web browser performance when "the open web" is supposedly central to Google's existence. You'd think that of all things on an Android phone, the web browser would be highly optimized and would be competitive with the iPhone. But you'd be wrong. So weird. 
    Pop into your local phone shop and pickup an internet connected android phone such as the pixel and fire up chrome. See if your perception on web browsing on android changes. Google have made strives in the past two years, I can't say if it rivals the iPhone, but from my experience its fast and almost silky smooth.
    Can you direct me to an android browser that doesn't collect my personal data?

    if not the knockoff iPhones aren't even in the same league. 
    Chrome.....you can turn off data collection but of course just like all well informed Apple fans you knew that already.
    tycho_macuser
  • Reply 142 of 167
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,399member
    If some people think Walt Mossberg might not be credible enough (you know, since he has praised Apple a number of times of the years...the bastard...), take some commentary from Dan Seifert over @ the Verge.  No Apple fan he.  He did a very in-depth review of the S8, claiming in the headline it is the best Android phone on the market.  However, look into the details of his review, and things are a little different.  He has effusive praise for the design/look of the device - this is raised multiple times throughout the review in fact - how the curves look, the "polished" exterior, the all screen front, etc. He was also very complimentary on the benchmark performance.  The review reads at the surface level as glowing.

    However, here are a few excerpts from some not-so-great areas:
    - "That new taller and skinnier screen shape does cause some problems, however. I appreciate the narrower width overall, but the height of the screen can make it difficult to reach the notification tray with my thumb, even on the smaller S8. And then there’s the issue of app compatibility.  Many apps work just fine on this new screen shape, but a number of popular ones, such as Pocket, Netflix, Speedtest, Dark Sky, and Spotify don’t.  Games ...Super Mario Run, for example, does not use the entire screen, and if I force it to, elements will be cut off on the left and right sides of the screen, making it hard to hit some of the buttons in the menus and non-gameplay areas."
    - "Samsung addresses this by putting the [fingerprint-sic] reader on the back of the device, which is something Google, Huawei, LG, and others have done for some time. But instead of placing the fingerprint scanner below the camera, near the middle of the phone where your index finger naturally rests, Samsung installed it far up the back of the phone and right next to the camera.  The high placement of the scanner makes it difficult and awkward to reach with my index finger, even on the smaller S8. I have to practically perform finger stretches before I can reach it with any sort of regularity on the S8 Plus. Second, because it is right next to the camera and has a similar shape and feel to the camera module, I frequently touch the camera lens instead of the fingerprint scanner, smearing the lens with all of my lovely finger oils".
    - "
    The iris scanning that first debuted on the ill-fated Note 7 makes its return, and while I'm sure it's very secure, it’s awkward to use, requiring me to hold the phone uncomfortably close to my face and open my eyes comically wide to trigger it"
    - "
    New for the S8 is a face-scanning feature that is supposed to be the most convenient method of unlocking the phone. I say "supposed to be" because in practice, it almost never worked for me, despite being very impressive in demos before the phone’s launch. .... Samsung also says the face-scanning feature isn’t as secure as the iris or fingerprint methods, so not only is it slower and less reliable to use, it’s less secure, too."
    - "
    That would be fine if Bixby was anything to get excited about, but in its current state, it doesn’t do much at all"
    - "
    The big question is how fast will the S8 be after a few months of use, as Samsung phones are notorious for slowing down over time, but I can’t answer that yet."

    There a few other minor points like the battery life being just ok, the camera is same as last year with some s/w improvements, the glossy device will be a fingerprint magnet, etc.

    http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/18/15328968/samsung-galaxy-s8-review-s8-plus

    We access our phones about 100-150x every day.  Ease, convenience and security in unlocking the phone is one of the cornerstone features today - at least for those with iPhones.  The fact that biometric security features were so badly done here is not a minor point.  If Apple screwed up like this, I simply would not buy the device - period.  That Samsung gets a "pass" on this (hey...still best phone out there) says more about the tech media than it does about Samsung.

    I think Samsung does make some good components and products, and they do push the h/w boundaries in certain ways.  From what I have seen the S8 is a very polished and good looking phone.  However, Apple goes that extra mile in many ways to put the design and user experience at the forefront.  When you look at the details, you can see why Apple continues to grow their iPhone user base every year.
    tmaypscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 143 of 167
    foggyhill said:
    To those who say Android phones are perfectly fine for the vast majority of users, who use their phone for basic tasks such as texting, FB, web browsing and games, I have to agree, and so does Tim Cook.  You'll recall him saying [celebrating] Tnat Android is often the first smartphone for many users, because they are affordable, but that many users graduate to an iPhone, thus Andriod represents something of a smartphone training ground and feeder for the iPhone.  I moved to the Philippines 7 months ago and I can tell you I see many old feature phones still being used (It was all about attaining a Nokia back in the day) and among Smartphones its all mid-tier Androids, with Samsung a favorite.  But there are several iStores here in Cebu, and more around the country.  This Apple reseller presents a store concept modeled closely on Apple stores, with curved glass facades and clean display tables.  Very high end, and they sell only Apple products, plus the same small array of Bluetooth speakers and 3rd-party accessories found in an Apple Store back in the states.  

    And here's what else I can tell you, from the view of the large city spat community I am well plugged into here.  When a Filipina has a foreigner boyfriend and the time comes to replace her phone, she invariably requests an iPhone.  Gen a used, older generation one will do.  They aspire to the I.phone here, and are the envy of their friends if they have one.  Gotta think it's not different in other emerging markets.  They look ve that iMessage costs them less via data load versus texting load, same with FaceTime versus call load.  Load is the term here used to describe pre-paid data, voice, and text costs, each sold separately and in packages.  Fact is, around the world, Android is popular because an Android phone can be had for far less than an iPhone.  Given the choice,moor the same price, I think I don't personally know anyone who would opt for Android. 
    It has been proven that Android has a higher loyalty rate, so to think that people will buy an Android device with the thought that they will "upgrade" to apple phone is false and disingenuous.  

    Will people switch back and forth absolutely but not in droves as you allude to.
    Huh, proven, right... Give me a break. They're loyalty is to cheapness, not a brand. Its not because you say crap that's its true buddy.

    uk . businessinsider . com/android-and-ios-user-loyalty-study-2015-11      So apparently the "crap" i say is true. :)
  • Reply 144 of 167
    crosslad said:

    I believe iMore did a blind camera test last year and iPhone didn't come out on top. Most smartphone cameras these days are good. I'm not convinced someone would switch platforms over the camera though.
    In a blind camera test, most people tend to choose the photo with the highest colour saturation. However that is not usually the most colour accurate photo. Apple concentrate on providing the most accurate photo, not the most oversaturated. This blind camera test was not run solely by iMore but by Mobile Nations, its parent company, which includes Android Central, Windows Central and Crackberry as well, so the poll wasn't just iPhone users.
    However on DxOMark the top 7 or 8 smartphone cameras are Android devices with Apple phone below them. 
  • Reply 145 of 167
    sharpdave1sharpdave1 Posts: 3unconfirmed, member
    "Rather than incrementally catching up to Apple, Samsung is wasting time and falling behind. Further, as Samsung modestly limps along, Apple is both using it as launching pad and independently leaping to what's next, taking its cash pile with it." Huh ? I had no choice to leave apple when they removed PPTP VPN formate FROM ALL OF THEIR DEVICES , saying that it's "security issues" WTF that's our business I need this to remote into our network.. So I fell in love with the samsung 360 cam, the Vr Goggles the OLED display, very nice camera and SOFTWARE FEATURES OF MY GS7 EDGE, NONE of which apple seems to have to offer... Who's behind ????
    brucemc
  • Reply 146 of 167
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    minglok50 said:
    You are citing `the Verge as a credible balanced site...
    You are posting in thread hanging off a DED article. Balance is not something that springs to mind.
    I agree with the sentiment that DED articles cannot be considered balanced, but somehow I found this article to be a balanced one. May be, my own biases!!!
    Bias isn't a bad thing per se. We all have an element of It. When necessary we can all filter much of that bias out. I've worked in government and know how important it is to gIve everyone the same treatment Iindependently of my own personal opinion or feelings.

    In this article it's his opinion but as usual soaked in bias. Sometimes I get through them, others I don't. This time I didn't.

    I'm not forced to read them.

    I think in this article I hit on two unbalanced points and then threw in the towel.

    One was the stab at facial recognition. The company tells you you shouldn't use it as a security feature and it won't even allow you to  make payments with it. On the other hand they offer you an iris scanner which no iPhone has, and AFAIK at this point, is very secure. Nevertheless it seems ok to take a gratuitous poke at facial recognition because it is 'weak' and just skip the iris scanner, as mentioning that would make the stab less effective.

    Of course, to work, you would need some kind of ssocial engineering. You need a photo of the person. The last time I checked, Apple would allow you to not even set a passcode and would definitely accept ultra weak passcode. In that regard, it is just as weak as facial recognition. 

    The other point was services. The article's sets out the stand very clearly. S8. iPhone. The lead in then just opens the door to everything under the sun because it wants to include historical context (biased of course :-))

    But why did it slam Samsung's entire mobile division with that direct non historical comparison to Apple Services? The relevance of Services is very recent and is derived from the entire Apple spectrum, not just iPhone. I didn't see any balance there. 

    It's true that I just stopped reading anyway so maybe there was some kind of justification elsewhere in the article. Anyway, that's how I saw when I started reading.
    It's a typical Daniel Eran Digler article...He goes on some wild tangent about what may or may not have happened 15 years ago as if it is relevent to today so his bias looks current. Like seriously what does Samsung's 5 year head start have to do with today's smartphone market share?

    Would he bash Apple computer sales to ASUS even though Apple was founded 13 years prior?.....Makes absolutely no sense! 
    brucemc
  • Reply 147 of 167
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,665member
    avon b7 said:
    foggyhill said:
    To those who say Android phones are perfectly fine for the vast majority of users, who use their phone for basic tasks such as texting, FB, web browsing and games, I have to agree, and so does Tim Cook.  You'll recall him saying [celebrating] Tnat Android is often the first smartphone for many users, because they are affordable, but that many users graduate to an iPhone, thus Andriod represents something of a smartphone training ground and feeder for the iPhone.  I moved to the Philippines 7 months ago and I can tell you I see many old feature phones still being used (It was all about attaining a Nokia back in the day) and among Smartphones its all mid-tier Androids, with Samsung a favorite.  But there are several iStores here in Cebu, and more around the country.  This Apple reseller presents a store concept modeled closely on Apple stores, with curved glass facades and clean display tables.  Very high end, and they sell only Apple products, plus the same small array of Bluetooth speakers and 3rd-party accessories found in an Apple Store back in the states.  

    And here's what else I can tell you, from the view of the large city spat community I am well plugged into here.  When a Filipina has a foreigner boyfriend and the time comes to replace her phone, she invariably requests an iPhone.  Gen a used, older generation one will do.  They aspire to the I.phone here, and are the envy of their friends if they have one.  Gotta think it's not different in other emerging markets.  They look ve that iMessage costs them less via data load versus texting load, same with FaceTime versus call load.  Load is the term here used to describe pre-paid data, voice, and text costs, each sold separately and in packages.  Fact is, around the world, Android is popular because an Android phone can be had for far less than an iPhone.  Given the choice,moor the same price, I think I don't personally know anyone who would opt for Android. 
    It has been proven that Android has a higher loyalty rate, so to think that people will buy an Android device with the thought that they will "upgrade" to apple phone is false and disingenuous.  

    Will people switch back and forth absolutely but not in droves as you allude to.
    Huh, proven, right... Give me a break. They're loyalty is to cheapness, not a brand. Its not because you say crap that's its true buddy.
    There are different kinds of loyalty.

    One is what you get from your dog. You could be the worst owner imaginable but your dog will remain loyal to you 

    Another is when you habitually use the same bar, restaurant, brand of coffee etc.

    Another is where you stick with a company or manufacturer because you see it in your best interest.

    Another could  be because of a mix of all of the above or something completely different.

    The OP is right. It is loyalty.

    Cheap? Sometimes yes but sometimes no. Android has something for everyone. That includes people who happen to be on low incomes. There are a few more people on low incomes than high incomes.

    If you are struggling to pay for your children's clothes, food, college expenses I think you can understand why they remain loyal to the low cost Android and even have a very nice spread to choose from.

    If you live in a bubble with a sect mentality and are unable to see or comprehend other options, realities perhaps I can even understand that too.

    So, the OP was in fact correct. What he said was true.

    As for 'cheapness'. Well, tell me what is 'cheap' about Andoid premium phones? I ask because there are millions of people who buy them, and, Shock! Horror! Remain loyal to them.
    NO HE WASN't RIGHT BUD . I said fracking Android, not Android premium phones.
    You can't move the god damn goal post and declare a "win".

    Loyalty to cheapness is loyalty to nothing at all. Android is not  a company making phone you know.
    There are many dozens of companies making those phones.
    They're mostly indistinguishable from each other at the low and high end.
    That's the thing, comparing Android to Apple...

    You made it a maudlin violin playing sob fest with your statement on the demos of those Android users.
     I've got no value judgement on why they buy this stuff; if that's all they can afford? Well that's fine.
    Those people aren't buying Benz', M3', Lexus, Infinitis either.
    And if I said most cars

    And, as a whole Android phones are cheap  and most companies make little to no profits. Numbers don't lie.

    With Google increasingly making hardware at the top end, the industry profits outside Samsung could very well be
    hundreds of companies sharing pennies in profits. This would be even worse than what is happening right now.
    By the way, there is a good chance Google will run into a massive anti-trust suit in the EU because of their
    policies regarding the so called "open source" (sic) of Android. Samsung will be one of those filling there.

    The deepening cash crunch and the increasing engineering requirements in building the highest end phones when
    off the shelf chips are falling behind (in the case of Qualcom, they're in a heap of legal troubles), means there
    is an increasing gap between mid range and high end phones.

    All of this is  a sure recipe for commodity hardware for  with little innovation and meh quality.
    Customer service and support, with that kind of margins is predictably pretty bad.




    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 148 of 167
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,210member
    avon b7 said:
    So AI must be worried about Samsung and the S8 becoming popular otherwise no reason to write this piece.
    Your employers must be worried because you're always worried that AI is worried. 
    Clearly if DED was confident about Apple he wouldn't need to write these overly defensive and biased editorials. Same with everyone who throws out the Apple makes the most profit argument as if the only measure of success is generating massive profits. I don't remember Apple fans in the past being so obsessed with how much profit it makes. 
    Clearly that's pure opinion on your part and not fact based whatsoever. 

    Profit as a metric in debates about platform matter because 1) profit means people are voting with their dollars. 2) profit is the air corporations breathe, not market share. Note that even you would not be foolish enough to argue Mercedes was "worried" about their market share compared to Honda and Toyota. Yeah, because it doesn't matter to anyone but those looking to win pretend arguments on a rumor site. Profit share always trumps market share. 
    When you want to open up a huge 'services' revenue stream, market share is all that matters. You have a larger base to feed off and you take share (and potential services profits) from competitors. Market share matters for more than this but services is just one important reason.
    You've just move the goal posts -- we were discussing all the profit iPhone sucks up in its market, not services. Regardless, profit is the overall metric a corporation needs to survive and show its dominance with. Apple's leading in profit share is unmistakable and cannot be argued around. Profit is boss. Apple is king of profit right now.
    No goal posts moved. I just outlined why market share is important and gave the example of services and fleshed it out a little.
  • Reply 149 of 167
    So AI must be worried about Samsung and the S8 becoming popular otherwise no reason to write this piece.
    Your employers must be worried because you're always worried that AI is worried. 
    Clearly if DED was confident about Apple he wouldn't need to write these overly defensive and biased editorials. Same with everyone who throws out the Apple makes the most profit argument as if the only measure of success is generating massive profits. I don't remember Apple fans in the past being so obsessed with how much profit it makes. 
    Clearly that's pure opinion on your part and not fact based whatsoever. 

    Profit as a metric in debates about platform matter because 1) profit means people are voting with their dollars. 2) profit is the air corporations breathe, not market share. Note that even you would not be foolish enough to argue Mercedes was "worried" about their market share compared to Honda and Toyota. Yeah, because it doesn't matter to anyone but those looking to win pretend arguments on a rumor site. Profit share always trumps market share. 
    It's not like there is a pot with a pre-set dollar amount of profit and Apple is the first to grab it.  Asian companies are VERY much more apt at being streamlined and running on less profit.....they know how to squeeze everything out to it's max.  If XYZ company makes as much profit as it "needs" then what good is it to the customer to squeeze more out of them?  It is quite obvious that Apple would love to increase their marketshare by bringing down the entry costs to getting an apple phone. 

    I have never understood how more profit for Apple is good for the average customer.....are you guys getting secret cheques from Apple?
    avon b7brucemc
  • Reply 150 of 167
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,665member
    WLee said:
    Wow, the s8 appears to have folks here really rattled based on this article, it exposes a real insecurity about what apple is producing at the moment. 

    Before I am flamed for that, I am a long term apple user, iPads, iPhones for years but there is no denying that the s8 has set the standard for design and the concept phones that I am seeing as leaks are tragically way off the creativity of the s8. I think this article actually reinforces that because it's loaded with attacks, we attack when flight of fight is triggered. 

    Step up apple. 
    Blah blah blah blah blah, mentions Apple credentials... blah blah blah... button pushing non sequitur.

    Seems like the same copy pasted regurgitated shitpost that came out after the S5, S6 and S7 and all the Notes and their variants.

    The troll factory is running on fumes, better step up your own effort.


    pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 151 of 167
    blastdoor said:
    saltyzip said:
    blastdoor said:

    The thing that really is kind of crazy is how bad Android phones are at web browser performance when "the open web" is supposedly central to Google's existence. You'd think that of all things on an Android phone, the web browser would be highly optimized and would be competitive with the iPhone. But you'd be wrong. So weird. 
    Pop into your local phone shop and pickup an internet connected android phone such as the pixel and fire up chrome. See if your perception on web browsing on android changes. Google have made strives in the past two years, I can't say if it rivals the iPhone, but from my experience its fast and almost silky smooth.
    I actually did exactly that and the Pixel was noticeably worse than the Galaxy S8, which was noticeably worse than the iPhone. For each phone in the Verizon shop, I just walked up, fired up the web browser, and loaded the CNN website. The iPhone wasn't literally instantaneous, but compared to the Android phones it felt instantaneous. 
    Which is odd because on all the "speed tests" the Android devices do load web pages faster....it's the games that load quicker on apple phone.
  • Reply 152 of 167
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,210member
    avon b7 said:
    So AI must be worried about Samsung and the S8 becoming popular otherwise no reason to write this piece.
    Your employers must be worried because you're always worried that AI is worried. 
    Clearly if DED was confident about Apple he wouldn't need to write these overly defensive and biased editorials. Same with everyone who throws out the Apple makes the most profit argument as if the only measure of success is generating massive profits. I don't remember Apple fans in the past being so obsessed with how much profit it makes. 
    Clearly that's pure opinion on your part and not fact based whatsoever. 

    Profit as a metric in debates about platform matter because 1) profit means people are voting with their dollars. 2) profit is the air corporations breathe, not market share. Note that even you would not be foolish enough to argue Mercedes was "worried" about their market share compared to Honda and Toyota. Yeah, because it doesn't matter to anyone but those looking to win pretend arguments on a rumor site. Profit share always trumps market share. 
    When you want to open up a huge 'services' revenue stream, market share is all that matters. You have a larger base to feed off and you take share (and potential services profits) from competitors. Market share matters for more than this but services is just one important reason.

    Textbook example of a typical GatorGuy response. Let me explain.

    First you make a blanket statement and present it as absolute fact. In your case: "When you want to open up a huge 'services' revenue stream, market share is all that matters."

    It sort of makes sense when you first read it, but you realize there's one very important component missing that completely changes the meaning (and why your statement is an outright lie). You forgot to add a qualifier to your statement.

    You should have said something like: "When you want to open up a huge 'services' revenue stream, market share vs competitors selling the same product is all that matters."

    A company that makes trucks is only concerned with their market share of the overall truck market. They don't compare their sales to cars, minivans or sports cars. The iPhone completely dominates the high-end smartphone market. This is why, with half as many App downloads (vs Google Play), they generate almost twice the revenue. This makes 1 iPhone user worth as much as 4 Android users. And why overall market share means nothing. Apple is only concerned with the high-end market (the most valuable customers). And of this part of the market, Apple has the largest share.
    You have gone off at a tangent.

    In the developed world, smartphones have reached saturation point. Do not expect major growth in it.

    Do you think an Android user suddenly becomes more prone to spending (up to 4x more) after switching?

    You can't know.

    Anyway, you missed my point entirely. I was saying that the bigger Apple's share the more potential they have to increase services revenue even more.

    At current share, Apple's services revenue will hit a ceiling at some point, or even contract. Increasing share will give it more users to feed off and take potential sales away from ccompetitors.
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 153 of 167
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,665member
    crosslad said:

    I believe iMore did a blind camera test last year and iPhone didn't come out on top. Most smartphone cameras these days are good. I'm not convinced someone would switch platforms over the camera though.
    In a blind camera test, most people tend to choose the photo with the highest colour saturation. However that is not usually the most colour accurate photo. Apple concentrate on providing the most accurate photo, not the most oversaturated. This blind camera test was not run solely by iMore but by Mobile Nations, its parent company, which includes Android Central, Windows Central and Crackberry as well, so the poll wasn't just iPhone users.
    However on DxOMark the top 7 or 8 smartphone cameras are Android devices with Apple phone below them. 
    The difference are trivial and even using their own criteria, are definitively arguable.

    Also, DXO arbitrarely weights static image quality (what I call tripod usage) over actual usage (it barely shows up at all).
    Why? Because actual usage, is very hard to test for. Just like doing good QA on an App is hard... Testing all paths, not just one.
    It's  also been heavily criticized as opaque in photography circles (its been used for normal cameras too).
    This criticism has escalated in these later years.

    It's also pretty bad in comparing what doesn't compare between cameras. If one camera can take 100 full res shots per seconds and the other can take 2, or one takes 2 seconds to get into a position to take a shot, or has a deficient OIS, how on earth is that assessed? Who the hell knows really. Seemingly those kind of things aren't important here to those like you who trumpet those thing. Not surprising since Apple's main advantage is DSP and processing and Android would be heavily disadvantaged if any broader tests were run.

    Considering the main use of those cameras is not replacing real cameras, but a snapshot camera, one you can whip out and take a photo in a second, the DXO thing makes a lot less sense in comparing smartphones than in comparing cameras where there is a much more subtantial difference between cameras that's not heavily limited by the form factor of the camera.




    watto_cobra
  • Reply 154 of 167
    WLeeWLee Posts: 5unconfirmed, member
    tmay said:
    WLee said:
    Wow, the s8 appears to have folks here really rattled based on this article, it exposes a real insecurity about what apple is producing at the moment. 

    Before I am flamed for that, I am a long term apple user, iPads, iPhones for years but there is no denying that the s8 has set the standard for design and the concept phones that I am seeing as leaks are tragically way off the creativity of the s8. I think this article actually reinforces that because it's loaded with attacks, we attack when flight of fight is triggered. 

    Step up apple. 
    I'm not seeing folks actually being "rattled" by the Samsung S8 and the soon to arrive Note 8, and certainly not Apple. Sure pie fights are ongoing, here and elsewhere, the nature of click-bait articles and media horse races. But is Apple actually lagging in the smartphone space? With the exception of the current trend to full screen displays, which Apple will likely remedy with the iPhone 8 this fall, not seeing much lag at all. Should Apple provide a Touch ID under the screen, and an upgraded sensor suite including the camera's, the iPhone will be, again, the top of the pyramid. Me, I wish that Apple would incorporate a pencil compatible screen on iPhone, but I'm guessing that Apple would have to incorporate that into an already dense touch screen, so, not yet.

    Samsung has driven a lot of its current success with full screen OLED's, but otherwise, I'm not seeing any great innovation beyond what Apple and the other OEM's are providing already. Step up indeed!

    Next up for Apple might by mLED watch displays, and if the pattern follows and Apple can scale production, iPhones could be using mLED screens as soon as 2020; a remarkably short production cycle for OLED screens on iPhones. Sony actually is quite proficient at mLED production, at at small scale, currently production limited to a niche line of television models. Expect Sony and Apple to both be ramping up R&D on mLED's.

    http://www.ledinside.com/news/2017/4/apple_to_start_mass_production_of_micro_led_displays_at_its_taiwan_plant_by_2018
    I think for me the key concern is there are major questions about if this sensor under the screen for the finger print is possible for the iPhone 8, with the s8 out now and getting some real attention (rightly so imo), if the iPhone 8 comes out with the finger print on the back and bezels (no matter how much of the front is screen) then this does set a narrative that apple have fallen behind, for the truth is they will have. 

    Personally im undecided as to what I'll upgrade to, there is a lot of major things going on in the tech world the now so I'm waiting, iPhone 8, s8,...surface phone, there are a lot of significant things still to play out one way or another. If apple don't hit the ball out of the park with the 8 or what ever they call it then they have done that at the worst possible time. 

    I think that is why I see a lot of defensiveness (and others are seeing this too) in this article and some of the responses, those saying these things are aware of the same risks. 

    P.s. Can they fix the darn iOS keyboard, my goodness it drops so many random words in whilst typing with this autocorrect things as I'm typing other words! 
  • Reply 155 of 167
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,210member
    foggyhill said:
    avon b7 said:
    foggyhill said:
    To those who say Android phones are perfectly fine for the vast majority of users, who use their phone for basic tasks such as texting, FB, web browsing and games, I have to agree, and so does Tim Cook.  You'll recall him saying [celebrating] Tnat Android is often the first smartphone for many users, because they are affordable, but that many users graduate to an iPhone, thus Andriod represents something of a smartphone training ground and feeder for the iPhone.  I moved to the Philippines 7 months ago and I can tell you I see many old feature phones still being used (It was all about attaining a Nokia back in the day) and among Smartphones its all mid-tier Androids, with Samsung a favorite.  But there are several iStores here in Cebu, and more around the country.  This Apple reseller presents a store concept modeled closely on Apple stores, with curved glass facades and clean display tables.  Very high end, and they sell only Apple products, plus the same small array of Bluetooth speakers and 3rd-party accessories found in an Apple Store back in the states.  

    And here's what else I can tell you, from the view of the large city spat community I am well plugged into here.  When a Filipina has a foreigner boyfriend and the time comes to replace her phone, she invariably requests an iPhone.  Gen a used, older generation one will do.  They aspire to the I.phone here, and are the envy of their friends if they have one.  Gotta think it's not different in other emerging markets.  They look ve that iMessage costs them less via data load versus texting load, same with FaceTime versus call load.  Load is the term here used to describe pre-paid data, voice, and text costs, each sold separately and in packages.  Fact is, around the world, Android is popular because an Android phone can be had for far less than an iPhone.  Given the choice,moor the same price, I think I don't personally know anyone who would opt for Android. 
    It has been proven that Android has a higher loyalty rate, so to think that people will buy an Android device with the thought that they will "upgrade" to apple phone is false and disingenuous.  

    Will people switch back and forth absolutely but not in droves as you allude to.
    Huh, proven, right... Give me a break. They're loyalty is to cheapness, not a brand. Its not because you say crap that's its true buddy.
    There are different kinds of loyalty.

    One is what you get from your dog. You could be the worst owner imaginable but your dog will remain loyal to you 

    Another is when you habitually use the same bar, restaurant, brand of coffee etc.

    Another is where you stick with a company or manufacturer because you see it in your best interest.

    Another could  be because of a mix of all of the above or something completely different.

    The OP is right. It is loyalty.

    Cheap? Sometimes yes but sometimes no. Android has something for everyone. That includes people who happen to be on low incomes. There are a few more people on low incomes than high incomes.

    If you are struggling to pay for your children's clothes, food, college expenses I think you can understand why they remain loyal to the low cost Android and even have a very nice spread to choose from.

    If you live in a bubble with a sect mentality and are unable to see or comprehend other options, realities perhaps I can even understand that too.

    So, the OP was in fact correct. What he said was true.

    As for 'cheapness'. Well, tell me what is 'cheap' about Andoid premium phones? I ask because there are millions of people who buy them, and, Shock! Horror! Remain loyal to them.
    NO HE WASN't RIGHT BUD . I said fracking Android, not Android premium phones.
    You can't move the god damn goal post and declare a "win".

    Loyalty to cheapness is loyalty to nothing at all. Android is not  a company making phone you know.
    There are many dozens of companies making those phones.
    They're mostly indistinguishable from each other at the low and high end.
    That's the thing, comparing Android to Apple...

    You made it a maudlin violin playing sob fest with your statement on the demos of those Android users.
     I've got no value judgement on why they buy this stuff; if that's all they can afford? Well that's fine.
    Those people aren't buying Benz', M3', Lexus, Infinitis either.
    And if I said most cars

    And, as a whole Android phones are cheap  and most companies make little to no profits. Numbers don't lie.

    With Google increasingly making hardware at the top end, the industry profits outside Samsung could very well be
    hundreds of companies sharing pennies in profits. This would be even worse than what is happening right now.
    By the way, there is a good chance Google will run into a massive anti-trust suit in the EU because of their
    policies regarding the so called "open source" (sic) of Android. Samsung will be one of those filling there.

    The deepening cash crunch and the increasing engineering requirements in building the highest end phones when
    off the shelf chips are falling behind (in the case of Qualcom, they're in a heap of legal troubles), means there
    is an increasing gap between mid range and high end phones.

    All of this is  a sure recipe for commodity hardware for  with little innovation and meh quality.
    Customer service and support, with that kind of margins is predictably pretty bad.




    You said Android. Android is on low end phones, mid range phones and premium phones.

    You said it was loyalty to cheapness. I pointed out that there were loyal high end Android users. In fact, brands like Huawei have dramatically increased premium sales.

    'There are many dozens of companies making those phones.
    They're mostly indistinguishable from each other at the low and high end.'

    If that were the case (which it isn't), the iPhone 6 line is largely indistinguishable from the iPhone 7 line.

    I didn't make a sobfest, I pointed out a reality. 

    'And, as a whole Android phones are cheap  and most companies make little to no profits. Numbers don't lie'

    How can you possibly say that when there are companies that cater to the entire user spectrum? 'As a whole', no. There is a plethora of high end phones out there. Even if you make a little profit you are in business and that is all that counts. 

    Google is already in the sights of the EU. It has been for some time and for diverse reasons. Great!

    '
    All of this is  a sure recipe for commodity hardware for  with little innovation and meh quality, customer service and support, with that kind of margins is predictably pretty bad.'

    That will be true for some (because there is an Android phone for everyone) but not for all.

    Currently Huawei is doing the exact opposite of what you claim. And they shipped near on 143,000,000 Android units. Hardware wise, there is not much commodity about them at all.


  • Reply 156 of 167
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,210member
    volcan said:
    avon b7 said:
    Whatsapp and Telegram were built to kill them, which is what they have done and why they dominate this space with the likes of Line etc.
    As was iMessage.

    All the years I've had an iPhone, literally only one person has ever asked me if I had WhatsApp. They had a Samsung then but now they are on iPhone.

    I like iMessage because it also works on my Macs.
    WhatsApp also works on Macs.
  • Reply 157 of 167
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,649member
    foggyhill said:
    crosslad said:

    I believe iMore did a blind camera test last year and iPhone didn't come out on top. Most smartphone cameras these days are good. I'm not convinced someone would switch platforms over the camera though.
    In a blind camera test, most people tend to choose the photo with the highest colour saturation. However that is not usually the most colour accurate photo. Apple concentrate on providing the most accurate photo, not the most oversaturated. This blind camera test was not run solely by iMore but by Mobile Nations, its parent company, which includes Android Central, Windows Central and Crackberry as well, so the poll wasn't just iPhone users.
    However on DxOMark the top 7 or 8 smartphone cameras are Android devices with Apple phone below them. 
    The difference are trivial and even using their own criteria, are definitively arguable.

    Also, DXO arbitrarely weights static image quality (what I call tripod usage) over actual usage (it barely shows up at all).
    Why? Because actual usage, is very hard to test for. Just like doing good QA on an App is hard... Testing all paths, not just one.
    It's  also been heavily criticized as opaque in photography circles (its been used for normal cameras too).
    This criticism has escalated in these later years.

    It's also pretty bad in comparing what doesn't compare between cameras. If one camera can take 100 full res shots per seconds and the other can take 2, or one takes 2 seconds to get into a position to take a shot, or has a deficient OIS, how on earth is that assessed? Who the hell knows really. Seemingly those kind of things aren't important here to those like you who trumpet those thing. Not surprising since Apple's main advantage is DSP and processing and Android would be heavily disadvantaged if any broader tests were run.

    Considering the main use of those cameras is not replacing real cameras, but a snapshot camera, one you can whip out and take a photo in a second, the DXO thing makes a lot less sense in comparing smartphones than in comparing cameras where there is a much more subtantial difference between cameras that's not heavily limited by the form factor of the camera.




    I would point to the fact that DxO had stated that they would separately test the iPhone 7 Plus. Over six months ago, and crickets. 

    My own opinion is that DxO can't figure out a test procedure for anything to do with computational photography employing more than a single lens. Neither can DPReview.

    With the second generation of Apple's dual lens camera system coming up, creating a testing procedure and specific metric is likely going to be absent yet again.

    That said, as an iPhone 7 Plus owner, and with many acquaintances with the same, portrait mode is a much loved feature that would be difficult to replicate in a smartphone format without a similar technological solution. Looking forward to focus stacking apps in the future.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 158 of 167
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 961member
    Blunt said:
    cropr said:
    Entering passwords is another key feature where Android is better.   Typically passwords contains characters and digits.  When typing a password, the Android keyboard is clever enough to switch off the word predictions (they are useless in this context) and to replace it with all the digits, so you have don't have to use the shift key when entering digits.  As a consequence, typing a password on Android is faster and less error prone.

    Entering passwords a key feature? Saves you several seconds a month. Wow. Android is amazing.
    It's a small feature but the consequences of an incorrect pass phrase entry can be infuriating. Classic likelihood/impact scenario. 

    I use keychain so I'm not even sure whether the password box assertion is even true. :-/
  • Reply 159 of 167
    A very false narrative. Umm, ok, why don't you share some article links from respectable sites that support your case???

    I dislike these kinds of AI articles, seems so paranoid.

    There's a difference between having competitors and talking up the competition vs proclaiming Apple is old news.

    So is like Apple loving youtuber MKBHD (Marques Brownlee) a "false narrative" offender when he complains about the iPhone wishing they'd implement some features from Samsung phones?  Right, so no one can say anything?

    Get a grip AI.
    avon b7
  • Reply 160 of 167
    russwrussw Posts: 8member
    Great article packed full of good information, thanks! I've been an Apple fanboy since 1984 so it's nice to see Apple's journey from near death to dominance. That said, we need someone like Samsung out there competing with Apple to keep prices down and innovation up.
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