A very false narrative: Samsung Galaxy S8 vs Apple's iPhone

Posted:
in iPhone edited April 2017
It's hard to escape the media pronouncements that iPhones are now boring again after Samsung unveiled its latest Galaxy S8, Apple's Mac business is being overshadowed by more exciting Surface Windows PCs from Microsoft and that Apple Watch is a disappointing dud. But all of those media narratives are wrong, here's why.




This first segment in a series takes a look at real data, with enough historical context to accurately see what's occurring in the Pre-Mobile PC and Post-PC Mobile and Wearables markets. Reality bears little correlation with media narratives that suggest doom for Apple and portray its hardware and software rivals as quickly catching up.

Virtually every element in the common media narratives hyping 1) Samsung's scrappy underdog rivalry with iPhone, 2) Microsoft's growing Surface threat to Macs or iPads and 3) the minor relevance and impact of Apple Watch is purely false. It's not only illuminating to see the truth, but also revealing to see what lies are being passed around as fact.

First, consider the reality of Samsung Mobile and its true market position relative to Apple--in stark contrast to the way the company is portrayed in media narratives.

1: Is Samsung serious in software?

Steve Jobs loved the 1982 quote from Xerox PARC's legendary computing pioneer Alan Kay, "people who are really serious about software should make their own hardware."

Apart from being "serious about software," there are also other reasons to build hardware. Ask Samsung, a company that is so seriously terrible at software that even many of the company's most ardent fans wish it would just ship phones with an un-diddled with version of Google's Android instead.

Google itself has worked to fix "a substantial number of high-severity" and "trivially exploitable" flaws in Samsung's Android flagships. The most common complaint regularly targeting Samsung's Galaxy hardware has been its bloatware features and apps that don't really work. And who could forget Samsung's own attempt to create a platform OS with Tizen, which ended up a total "worst code I've ever seen" turd sandwich? Samsung's asymmetrical skill set in designing fresh hardware but terrible software has cost it dearly in the commercial race to profit from smartphones

Despite its incredible lack of aptitude in software, Samsung successfully sells nearly half of the world's utilitarian Android devices and--quite remarkably--has been considered to be on the forefront of a series of new hardware ideas.

Samsung is often credited with popularizing large-format smartphones, was among the first to deliver water resistance, credits itself with creating the wrist-phone smartwatch and over the last two years has introduced future-forward looking phone designs with OLED edge screens and minimal bezels.

Samsung's asymmetrical skill set in designing fresh hardware but terrible software has cost it dearly in the commercial race to profit from smartphones.

Samsung is a surviving incumbent, not an underdog

Particularly since 2010's Galaxy S, Samsung has been portrayed as the leading Android maker, heroically fighting to take away Apple's iPhone crown. But the reality is that when Apple introduced its first iPhone in 2007 Samsung had already been in the smartphone business for half a decade--at least on the hardware side.


Samsung was making smartphones six years before iPhone


Back in 2001, Samsung licensed PalmOS to build a press-screen phone for Sprint (above left). While Apple appeared focused on building iPods from 2001-2006, Samsung (which produced many of the components Apple used) licensed Microsoft's Windows Mobile to build a basic button smartphone that attempted to look like a Blackberry (above right).

This knockoff BlackJack was much cheaper than the new iPhone and featured a superior camera. However it was destroyed by iPhone in the market, largely due to Apple's far more attractive software. Samsung also tried Symbian and Java ME and then Android, where it finally discovered a hit with the 2010 Galaxy S that shamelessly sold itself as nearly being an iPhone.

However, Samsung didn't particularly love Android. Just as its Galaxy S (below left) sales began taking off, the company unsuccessfully devoted efforts to popularize its own new Bada platform, which was later folded into Tizen. It also even took additional scattershot stabs at trying to sell successive releases of Windows Phone (such as the ironically-named Focus, below right).


Samsung's Android iPhone copy sold, but licensed software didn't help its Focus


It sure seems that Samsung isn't just bad at software, but actually has no particular interest in or appreciation of software and its value. In fact, that's the only real explanation of how Samsung managed to completely squander its five-year head start in smartphones. Failing to appreciate the value of something also tends to make you not very good at maintaining it. It sure seems that Samsung isn't just bad at software, but actually has no particular interest in or appreciation of software and its value

Three years after iPhone launched, Samsung's greatest success came from four years of desperately copying it (Galaxy S through S4).

Since 2015, Samsung has embarked upon a somewhat more original hardware focus (Galaxy S5 through S8), but its unit sales have never recovered to 2014's Peak Samsung levels.

That's a pretty stark timeline of events that's hard to argue against: as long as Samsung was illegitimately copying Apple's software as closely as it dared, it performed pretty well. When it attempted to make its own hardware the star of the show, popular interest faded and its profits fell dramatically.

Hardware alone doesn't build a lasting business, something Samsung could have learned just by looking at Palm, Blackberry, HP or any of the many other companies it was so closely studying in other respects.

Samsung's Siri-ous screwups

Samsung has attempted to acquire its own software talent, most famously when it snapped up Viv Labs last year, a startup purported to have developed the next generation of voice assistant technology, from the same team that introduced the Siri app Apple acquired in 2010. Despite six years of gestation, however, Samsung couldn't distill a superior service out of Viv in time for the Galaxy S8.

Instead, according to the Wall Street Journal, Samsung reverted to the code of its languishing internal S Voice project, which it spruced it up under the name Bixby. Despite devoting much attention to Bixby at the S8 unveiling, it ultimately could not get the service working well enough to include at launch in the U.S.

Samsung knows that the premium tier is where virtually all the money is made in smartphones. Yet in the intensely competitive market--where it is pressed between Apple's aspirational iPhone and a series of much cheaper Chinese competitors--it screwed up the most prominent software it chose to associate with the launch of its new flagship.


Samsung's security is shockingly shoddy


It also slopped out a pointlessly insecure face unlock on the S8, hot on the heels of deploying another acquisition, last year's SmartThings home automation platform--a HomeKit competitor plagued with the same kind of flawed security design found in Tizen and Samsung's Android skins and bloatware.

Charting Samsung's software-hobbled trajectory

Even if we skip past the details of the whole Note 7 fiasco and its incineration of $5 billion in capital and 40 percent of the company's reputation (remember how 60 percent of buyers don't care?), it's useful to look back on what Samsung has done over the last three years since it hit Peak Galaxy back in 2014.

Unlike Apple's wild seasonal swings in quarterly revenue, Samsung Mobile--the South Korean conglomerate's Apple-comparable IM business segment that sells phones, tablets and PCs--has turned in a relatively steady $20-25 billion in quarterly revenue over most of the last three years.

It has however incrementally fallen from the beginning of 2014, when it sold $28.5 billion worth of gear, to the most recent quarter ending 2016, when it hit a Q4 low of $20.8 billion--a pretty large drop for an industry that expects perpetual growth, particularly when compared to Apple's parallel growth from $46 billion to $78.4 billion in quarterly revenue.

Across the same period, Apple's quarterly revenue waved between a nadir of $37.4 billion and new holiday peaks of $74.6, $75.9 and $78.4 billion in each calendar Q4. In the chart, Samsung IM revenues are blue, petering downward, Apple's are gold, poking upward. Much of this can be pinned on Apple's mastery of integration vs Samsung's hardware-oriented software handicap.


Apple's "Other Stuff" revenues larger than Samsung Mobile

Another pattern detailed in the chart is Apple's split between iPhone revenue (red) and non-iPhone revenue (purple; note that the gold lines represent both together: red+purple). A consistently large percentage of Apple's revenues come from iPhones. However, Apple's non-iPhone revenue has now grown larger than everything Samsung IM does: tablets, PCs, Chromebooks--including all of its Galaxy and non-Galaxy smartphones.

When people talk of Apple's non-iPhone business as being minimal leftovers almost unworthy of mention, keep in mind that business is now actually larger than Samsung Mobile, which accounts for nearly half of all Android units globally and most of the profits derived from Android. Put another way: outside of the smartphone mega-business, Apple's "other stuff" is worth more than the second place revenue generator in global smartphones.

And again, just to emphasize how incredibly unbelievable that is: Apple's "other stuff" represents the kind of products that other vendors--including Samsung--barely make any money on at all: PCs, tablets, watches and apps. Apple's non-iPhone "other stuff" is less than 31% of Apple's total revenues but is by itself larger than the biggest, second most successful smartphone maker in the world

Apple's non-iPhone "other stuff" is less than 31 percent of Apple's total revenues but is by itself larger than the biggest, second most successful smartphone maker in the world, or alternatively, the sum of rest of the world's total smartphone production: the majority of that "overwhelming 88 percent phone market share" that gets attributed to Google.

What a fantastically incredible lie persists among those trying to portray Android as the winner in phones, or that Samsung's minority of flagship Galaxy sales are somehow a neck-and-neck competitor with Apple's iPhone business just because the media invents and perpetuates this fiction.

Now, the coup de grace: profit

Finally: compare operational profits: Samsung Mobile (in green) and Apple's (in orange). Green is barely even there at the scale of this chart, at $2.2 billion in the last Q4. Apple's are consistently above $10 billion, reaching up to $23.4 billion in the last reported quarter--more than ten times the productive result of Samsung Mobile in a similar mix of business.

Over this entire 3 year period--where lots of things happened--Samsung consistently introduced two new flagship phone launches each year, built and shipped at least twice as many phones as Apple, released a flurry of tablets and has shipped a variety of other "IM" products ranging from Gear watches to Gear VR goggles to 360 VR cameras to Bluetooth earbuds to Windows PCs and ChromeOS netbooks.

Despite all this, Samsung is consistently selling less and earning less each year, while Apple keeps delivering new peaks in revenues and profits on a totally different scale at the top of the chart. In its last quarter, Apple delivered greater profits than Samsung's IM had earned over the last 2.5 years.


Same chart, with numbers. Reported Korean Won, converted to $USD.


When your rival makes ten times as much money as you, you can't just work a little bit harder and expect to catch up. There's no way to spin facts and numbers to make Samsung IM look like it's in anything other than a long-term death spiral. It's doing a tremendous amount of work but getting paid almost nothing for it.

If you want to mislead people, you can find short term comparisons where, for example, Samsung launches a new phone and briefly eclipses iPhone sales at their lowest point in the year. But the reality is actually quite simple: the world's largest phone maker (and the anchor of Android) is minimally profitable making smartphones and other hardware, and effectively makes more money just selling its raw components to Apple.

This all appears to largely be due to Samsung's poor performance in software; this makes its phones essentially interchangeable with much cheaper Chinese Androids; its PCs are similarly undifferentiated from other Windows makers and its other devices are plagued with such shoddy software that they fail to excite the market sufficiently to drive meaningful sales, let alone profits.

Apple's critics like to fawn over Samsung in an apparent effort to prop up some real competition, but that praise hasn't done anything to bolster Samsung's performance in the last three years. Just to match the performance of the old Galaxy S4, the new Galaxy S8 would need to sell massively more than last year, but analysts are expecting significantly fewer sales this year (as much as 20 percent fewer), on top of the whole Note 7 thing.

Apple isn't just moving faster, it's moving away

Rather than incrementally catching up to Apple, Samsung is wasting time and falling behind. Further, as Samsung modestly limps along, Apple is both using it as launching pad and independently leaping to what's next, taking its cash pile with it.

Originally starting out behind Samsung in phone cameras, Apple is now steps ahead, both in multiple sensor imaging and Image Signal Processor design, even before launching the results of its various recent AR-related acquisitions. Recent camera reviews that have sought to portray the Galaxy S8 as perhaps marginally better than iPhone 7 have drawn criticism from readers looking at the same photos. Samsung should be six months ahead of last fall's iPhone 7, and instead is materially behind in accuracy, ease-of-use in software features, and even in hardware innovations.

And in Application Processor design, Apple has gone from being an iPod-era Samsung client to a contemporary (2010's A4) to being significantly ahead of Samsung since 2013's A7. It has since taken its chip fabrication business to Samsung's rival TSMC, erasing a major chunk of the business that used to reliably pay the bills at Samsung's LSI fabs.

The CPU cores of Apple's latest A10 Fusion speed past Samsung's own Exynos and Qualcomm's fastest Snapdragon, neither of which generate comparable profits to warrant equal investment going forward.

Apple is also developing its own GPU, something that will likely shift the goal posts as dramatically as the A7's 64-bit CPU did in 2013. Samsung has spent billions trying to acquire the ability to match Touch ID, Apple Pay, HomeKit and many other features, but it continues to earn far less money for its efforts. Apple keeps adding new challenges for Samsung to attempt to copy, and none of them are inexpensive to duplicate.

Large investments in proprietary silicon design have rapidly enhanced Apple's internal hardware capabilities in obvious ways, as typified by the custom W1 chip powering AirPods and wireless Beats headphones. At the same time, while Samsung has developed advanced LED and OLED screens for Apple, the profits generated by iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch are funding the development of new micro-LED technology independent from Samsung.

A recent report from Business Korea notes that Apple has been working with LuxVue (which it acquired in 2014) to develop new micro-LED screen technology to replace the OLED screens now used in Apple Watch.

LuxView micro-LED


It noted that the new technology isn't yet capable of yielding large screen iPhone displays, but could get there over the next couple years. That means Apple's use of Samsung OLED screens for a new iPhone model this year are only temporary. And before Apple moves away from OLED, it's likely to switch from Samsung OLEDs to production from China, the report stated.

In addition to the loss of a billion dollars worth of OLED screens, Samsung and LG are also increasingly concerned that Apple will start sourcing its RAM and cameras elsewhere, too. Apple is reportedly in talks to acquire Toshiba's memory business for itself, ending nearly two decades of being among Samsung's largest RAM customers.

Outside of Apple, there are no other very profitable hardware makers looking for premium-priced, high-end components with the ability to sell them in high volumes to a loyal base of hundreds of millions of customers. Idling or scaling back production of chips and displays are equally ugly prospects for Samsung.

This all might seem unfair to Samsung, which is currently the best performing smartphone maker apart from Apple. However it really shows how badly Samsung is performing in its attempt to deliver consumer goods like Apple, despite being equipped with a supply of all the needed components to ship its own finished products--apart from (quite importantly) a real software platform of its own and the ability to develop novel, useful new software.

The common but absurd portrayal of Samsung Mobile as a parallel, equal and "perhaps even superior" rival of Apple isn't even the most shockingly ignorant, false narrative in circulation, as the next segment outlines.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 167
    Samsung is terrible at software.

    The galaxy s8 still drops frames on some workloads.
    What does that say about samsung.

    Tizen is another example of this.Samsung should keep to hardware Instead of competing with the big boys (google and apple).
    edited April 2017 albegarcwatto_cobramagman1979calinetmage
  • Reply 2 of 167
    plovellplovell Posts: 768member
    "...the only real explanation of how Samsung managed to completely squander its five year head start in smartphones" may be a bit harsh. Samsung likes to characterize itself as a "fast-follower" but in this case it was out ahead. It's true that it didn't know where it was going, at that time no-one did. Even Apple was still wrestling in the labs with a still super-secret idea.

    So Apple wasn't exactly the second-to-market, but had the second idea which was the touchscreen and no physical keyboard. I bet that Steve Ballmer and the folks at Nokia wish they could retract their trashy comments when Steve first showed iPhone.
    edited April 2017 mwhitewatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 167
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,815member
    Can't disagree. 

    There is nothing about Android phones in general, and Samsung's in particular, that I find very appealing. 

    Every once in a while one OEM will come up with a spec that beats an iPhone spec, but when you look at the overall package, the iPhone dominates. 

    The thing that really is kind of crazy is how bad Android phones are at web browser performance when "the open web" is supposedly central to Google's existence. You'd think that of all things on an Android phone, the web browser would be highly optimized and would be competitive with the iPhone. But you'd be wrong. So weird. 
    albegarcpscooter63watto_cobramagman1979caliredgeminipabrucemcB3BADASS
  • Reply 4 of 167
    I needed this article today. I have a colleague who just got her S8 Plus and keeps waving it in my face to irritate me (they even copied the "Plus" now! they are shameless). It isn't worth my time trying to explain to her why she is wrong. I do find it completely baffling though. She has an iPad and loves it. How can she not see how superior iOS is if she uses both operating systems every day? As far as I can tell the thing she loves about the S8 is that it has a nice screen. The kind of screen Apple have obviously been working towards and will come out with in September. Except it will be implemented more thoughtfully and will be better, as always. People are strange.
    albegarcwatto_cobramagman1979calibrakkenredgeminipaB3BADASS
  • Reply 5 of 167
    saltyzipsaltyzip Posts: 145member
    blastdoor said:

    There is nothing about Android phones in general, and Samsung's in particular, that I find very appealing. 
    If you only read this website you would never ever think about buying an android phone.
    avon b7russw
  • Reply 6 of 167
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,405member
    It might be nice to attribute some of the quotes to their sources...?
    Or were they mistakenly represented as being quotes?
  • Reply 7 of 167
    saltyzipsaltyzip Posts: 145member
    As long as the faithful stay with an iPhone then Apple has many more profitable years ahead.

    The problem for the iPhone is not Samsung, like appleinsider seems to think, it is Android in general.

    Google, LG, Motorola, Huawei all make great phones and most eclipse iPhone on the camera too. Look at the verge website for their latest camera shootout and you'll see iPhone doesn't even make the podium.

    Apple phone inovation has plateaued​, technical advancement takes a long time, and because they are running out of features to entice people to upgrade they are now falling behind what was the chasing pack.

    As long as the Apple faithful continue buying iPhones, then nothing will change, but don't expect to get best bang for your buck.
    avon b7albegarccalibrucemc
  • Reply 8 of 167
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,815member
    saltyzip said:
    blastdoor said:

    There is nothing about Android phones in general, and Samsung's in particular, that I find very appealing. 
    If you only read this website you would never ever think about buying an android phone.
    Yes, I suppose that's technically true. But it turns out I do more than just read this website, so the relevancy of your point isn't high. 

    Presumably if I only read this website I would also have nothing critical to say about the state of the Mac. But it turns out that I have a lot of critical things to say about that. 
    stanthemanalbegarcsaltyzipwatto_cobracaliredgeminipabrucemcnetmagebb-15
  • Reply 9 of 167
    saltyzip said:
    As long as the faithful stay with an iPhone then Apple has many more profitable years ahead.

    The problem for the iPhone is not Samsung, like appleinsider seems to think, it is Android in general.

    Google, LG, Motorola, Huawei all make great phones and most eclipse iPhone on the camera too. Look at the verge website for their latest camera shootout and you'll see iPhone doesn't even make the podium.

    Apple phone inovation has plateaued​, technical advancement takes a long time, and because they are running out of features to entice people to upgrade they are now falling behind what was the chasing pack.

    As long as the Apple faithful continue buying iPhones, then nothing will change, but don't expect to get best bang for your buck.
    You are citing `the Verge as a credible balanced site...
    pscooter63watto_cobramagman1979redgeminipabrucemcnetmagebb-15
  • Reply 10 of 167
    xzuxzu Posts: 139member
    Its a great history, and very well written as always. The initial assumption that Apples inherent advantage over other platforms is basically the integration of the software and hardware into a walled garden is true. Though, one could argue the hardware, at least from the Mac side, is holding the software back from truly meeting its potential. Apple has an enormous advantage, I hope they don't squander it. 

    While I appreciate that they can take a risk now by adding or eliminating ports/tech to help the adoption of new technologies and standards, it is not nearly as "brave" as the original iMac design when Apple was floundering. While its in Apples DNA to believe their success comes from this "bravery," times have changed and in some cases they need to be self-critical and learn how to be a fast-follower as well. Apple can afford to be mediocre for years before the actual financial impact catches up to them because of the stickiness of their platform and the loyalty of their users, but they can't take that for granted, nor can we not recognize some of the truly great competition that is making remarkable products.
    albegarczinkdifferent
  • Reply 11 of 167
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,206member
    minglok50 said:
    saltyzip said:
    As long as the faithful stay with an iPhone then Apple has many more profitable years ahead.

    The problem for the iPhone is not Samsung, like appleinsider seems to think, it is Android in general.

    Google, LG, Motorola, Huawei all make great phones and most eclipse iPhone on the camera too. Look at the verge website for their latest camera shootout and you'll see iPhone doesn't even make the podium.

    Apple phone inovation has plateaued​, technical advancement takes a long time, and because they are running out of features to entice people to upgrade they are now falling behind what was the chasing pack.

    As long as the Apple faithful continue buying iPhones, then nothing will change, but don't expect to get best bang for your buck.
    You are citing `the Verge as a credible balanced site...
    You are posting in thread hanging off a DED article. Balance is not something that springs to mind.
    tdknoxrogifan_newcalisingularitybrucemc
  • Reply 12 of 167
    ronnronn Posts: 252member
    saltyzip said:

    The problem for the iPhone is not Samsung, like appleinsider seems to think, it is Android in general.

    That's been said so many times over the years and it still isn't true. Nokia. Motorola. Huawei. LG. Samsung. Google's Nexus line, and now its Pixel line. They were all supposed to take out Apple either alone or as a group. Apple is not only still around, but thriving, and looks extremely healthy for the foreseeable future.




    pscooter63watto_cobracalijahbladeredgeminipabrucemcnetmage
  • Reply 13 of 167
    avon b7 said:
    minglok50 said:
    saltyzip said:
    As long as the faithful stay with an iPhone then Apple has many more profitable years ahead.

    The problem for the iPhone is not Samsung, like appleinsider seems to think, it is Android in general.

    Google, LG, Motorola, Huawei all make great phones and most eclipse iPhone on the camera too. Look at the verge website for their latest camera shootout and you'll see iPhone doesn't even make the podium.

    Apple phone inovation has plateaued​, technical advancement takes a long time, and because they are running out of features to entice people to upgrade they are now falling behind what was the chasing pack.

    As long as the Apple faithful continue buying iPhones, then nothing will change, but don't expect to get best bang for your buck.
    You are citing `the Verge as a credible balanced site...
    You are posting in thread hanging off a DED article. Balance is not something that springs to mind.
    Quite frankly Avon DED articles use factual information more than most so credibility is correct on this occasion. You however are questionable.

    I've scanned through a few of of your posts. Apple aren't perfect and I agree some of their products haven't been up to the standards we perceive Apple should be, but you use any excuse to downpour scorn onto them.
    pscooter63watto_cobramagman1979caliStrangeDaysbestkeptsecretjahbladeredgeminipabrucemcnetmage
  • Reply 14 of 167
    saltyzipsaltyzip Posts: 145member
    blastdoor said:

    The thing that really is kind of crazy is how bad Android phones are at web browser performance when "the open web" is supposedly central to Google's existence. You'd think that of all things on an Android phone, the web browser would be highly optimized and would be competitive with the iPhone. But you'd be wrong. So weird. 
    Pop into your local phone shop and pickup an internet connected android phone such as the pixel and fire up chrome. See if your perception on web browsing on android changes. Google have made strives in the past two years, I can't say if it rivals the iPhone, but from my experience its fast and almost silky smooth.
  • Reply 15 of 167
    nhtnht Posts: 4,125member
    saltyzip said:
    As long as the faithful stay with an iPhone then Apple has many more profitable years ahead.

    The problem for the iPhone is not Samsung, like appleinsider seems to think, it is Android in general.

    Google, LG, Motorola, Huawei all make great phones and most eclipse iPhone on the camera too. Look at the verge website for their latest camera shootout and you'll see iPhone doesn't even make the podium.

    Apple phone inovation has plateaued​, technical advancement takes a long time, and because they are running out of features to entice people to upgrade they are now falling behind what was the chasing pack.

    As long as the Apple faithful continue buying iPhones, then nothing will change, but don't expect to get best bang for your buck.
    https://www.flickr.com/cameras

    Verge can claim whatever but actual usage numbers from Flickr shows that the top 5 most used phones are iPhone 6, iPhone 6S, Galaxy S6, iPhone 5s and iPhone 7 with Apple as the most used brand followed by Canon, Samsung, Nikon and Sony.

    The best bang for the buck is an iPhone because we have a flagship 2015 android phone that isn't getting Nougat and a 2012 iPhone 5 with the latest 10.3.1 release.  Sure, 10.3.2 likely won't support the 5 but it's been 5 years and still runs well.

    minglok50jony0watto_cobrapscooter63pscooter63waverboymagman1979caliStrangeDaysjahblade
  • Reply 16 of 167
    I needed this article today. I have a colleague who just got her S8 Plus and keeps waving it in my face to irritate me (they even copied the "Plus" now! they are shameless). It isn't worth my time trying to explain to her why she is wrong. I do find it completely baffling though. She has an iPad and loves it. How can she not see how superior iOS is if she uses both operating systems every day? As far as I can tell the thing she loves about the S8 is that it has a nice screen. The kind of screen Apple have obviously been working towards and will come out with in September. Except it will be implemented more thoughtfully and will be better, as always. People are strange.
    To be fair, Samsung was using the "Plus" name a long time ago even before the iPhone had a Plus model. 
  • Reply 17 of 167
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,206member
    ronn said:
    saltyzip said:

    The problem for the iPhone is not Samsung, like appleinsider seems to think, it is Android in general.

    That's been said so many times over the years and it still isn't true. Nokia. Motorola. Huawei. LG. Samsung. Google's Nexus line, and now its Pixel line. They were all supposed to take out Apple either alone or as a group. Apple is not only still around, but thriving, and looks extremely healthy for the foreseeable future.




    Who said they were supposed to take Apple out? Most Android phones compete against other Android phones first.

    Of all Android purchasers, how many do you think say to themselves, 'will I get an iPhone or an Android?'. Most (the vast majority) say to themselves ' Which Android will I get?'

    Apple is doing great today. In terms of market share Android is doing greater.
    firelock
  • Reply 18 of 167
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 5,998member
    plovell said:
    "...the only real explanation of how Samsung managed to completely squander its five year head start in smartphones" may be a bit harsh. Samsung likes to characterize itself as a "fast-follower" but in this case it was out ahead. It's true that it didn't know where it was going, at that time no-one did. Even Apple was still wrestling in the labs with a still super-secret idea.

    So Apple wasn't exactly the second-to-market, but had the second idea which was the touchscreen and no physical keyboard. I bet that Steve Ballmer and the folks at Nokia wish they could retract their trashy comments when Steve first showed iPhone.
    Steve Ballmer will forever have that video hung around his neck like a millstone. 
    watto_cobramagman1979calibrakken
  • Reply 19 of 167
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,094member
    I think even Samsung knows that barring any royal screwup by Apple, they will never be able to get the the level that Apple is.  So they will fall back on on the same tired formula that has kept their titanic of a ship moving, forever dodging icebergs.  They will continue to use Apple as its R&D department and will get away with as much IP theft as they can like they always do in the past.

    Samsung is just barely relevant now.  No software engineer worth their chops would ever work for some stodgy company like Samsung.  They will suck in that department for the very long foreseeable future.

    They are just so bad at software, they know it and just accept it.  Sad really.
    watto_cobrapscooter63waverboycaliStrangeDays
  • Reply 20 of 167
    lwiolwio Posts: 66member
    I do believe there is a sizeable number of tech journalists either in the pay of Samsung or in some kind of agreement with them to promote them and run down Apple. The blatant bias of some articles is jaw dropping. 
    watto_cobraradarthekatmagman1979caliStrangeDaysredgeminipanetmage
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