Apple 'finalizing' design of Amazon Echo rival based on Siri

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 105
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:

    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    you are so naive if you don't think Alexa is not always listening.
    You called the public dumb and yet I've never read a more idiotic post from you.
     
    To make this clear so you can hopefully understand how this technology works:

    OF COURSE ALEXA IS ALWAYS LISTENING! THAT'S HOW IT FUCKING WORKS! THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO LISTEN FOR A KEYWORD WITHOUT ALWAYS LISTENING FOR THAT KEYWORD. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME—ZERO DIFFERENCE—WITH APPLE'S "HEY SIRI"! WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING IS ALWAYS RECORDING!


    ADDITIONALLY, SINCE YOU HAVE MICROPHONES AND CAMERAS AROUND YOU, IN YOUR HOME, AND ON YOUR PERSON PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THESE DEVICES ARE LISTENING, RECORDING, AND SENDING YOUR DATA TO SOME SERVER IN SOME OTHER PART OF THE WORLD! YOU SIMPLY CAN'T BE SURE, BUT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE AMAZON DESIGNED A DEVICE TO LISTEN FOR A 'WAKE WORD' THAT IT—AND ONLY IT—CAN POSSIBLY BE USING A MICROPHONE (OR CAMERA) OUTSIDE OF YOU PURPOSELY ENABLING THEM; YOUR CLAIM THAT AMAZON MUST BE DOING SOMETHING NEFARIOUS IS THE MOST MYOPIC, PARANOID, AND DOWNRIGHT STUPID THINGS I'VE EVERY READ ON THIS FORUM!

    the part you are forgetting is not IF they are listening but WHO is listening.

    I trust Apple. I don't trust Amazon. That's the whole point.
    While your blind trust in Apple and mistrust in Amazon may be your fan boyish point, that's not what you wrote. You made a claim that it's bad because it "listens" fora keyword which you then implied means it must also be recording that information because it's listening. That's both irrational and illogical, but I doubt you'll ever understand that considering you still write every fucking post about what you desire Apple to do in the future as a statement of fact of what they'l absolutely end up doing.
    well you are wrong again.

    My iPhone6 does not listen to me 24x7 while unplugged.  That feature did not start till iPhone 6s with hey Siri.
    And the Echo and Dot doesn't listen when they're not plugged in, but as you oddly mention while saying it doesn't exist, "Hey Siri can be enabled on later iPhones to work whilst on battery power, which once again disproves your point.
    Echo/Dot don't work if they are not plugged in.  If you buy one they will be plugged in 99.9999% of the time.

    My iPhone is plugged in only when I sleep. And I turn off the hey siri feature anyway.

    I have an iPhone6 so your point is not valid for me.
    So your argument is now, because you don't use the "Hey Siri" feature and have an old iPhone it's not an issue for anyone with a newer iPhone and with the "Hey Siri" feature enabled? I have "Hey Siri" enabled on my iPhone and I'm sure that's not recording what I'm saying outlaid about your rationale because I didn't say "Hey Siri."
  • Reply 82 of 105
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member

    sog35 said:
    Soli said:

    Soli said:

    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    you are so naive if you don't think Alexa is not always listening.
    You called the public dumb and yet I've never read a more idiotic post from you.
     
    To make this clear so you can hopefully understand how this technology works:

    OF COURSE ALEXA IS ALWAYS LISTENING! THAT'S HOW IT FUCKING WORKS! THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO LISTEN FOR A KEYWORD WITHOUT ALWAYS LISTENING FOR THAT KEYWORD. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME—ZERO DIFFERENCE—WITH APPLE'S "HEY SIRI"! WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING IS ALWAYS RECORDING!


    ADDITIONALLY, SINCE YOU HAVE MICROPHONES AND CAMERAS AROUND YOU, IN YOUR HOME, AND ON YOUR PERSON PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THESE DEVICES ARE LISTENING, RECORDING, AND SENDING YOUR DATA TO SOME SERVER IN SOME OTHER PART OF THE WORLD! YOU SIMPLY CAN'T BE SURE, BUT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE AMAZON DESIGNED A DEVICE TO LISTEN FOR A 'WAKE WORD' THAT IT—AND ONLY IT—CAN POSSIBLY BE USING A MICROPHONE (OR CAMERA) OUTSIDE OF YOU PURPOSELY ENABLING THEM; YOUR CLAIM THAT AMAZON MUST BE DOING SOMETHING NEFARIOUS IS THE MOST MYOPIC, PARANOID, AND DOWNRIGHT STUPID THINGS I'VE EVERY READ ON THIS FORUM!

    the part you are forgetting is not IF they are listening but WHO is listening.

    I trust Apple. I don't trust Amazon. That's the whole point.
    While your blind trust in Apple and mistrust in Amazon may be your fan boyish point, 
    It's not at all fanboyish to trust Apple more than Amazon -- they have different business models, and Apple's is much more aligned with my desire for privacy than a reseller like Amazon or especially an ad company like google. 

    case in point, the lack of denial on amazon selling user data:

    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/27/amazon-echo-look
    You should NEVER blindly trust any company. The fact that you don't understand this simple fact or that a microphone listening for a keyword doesn't mean it's always recording. Additionally, you need to consider that a device with microphones that doesn't have a digital personal assistant feature doesn't mean it can't possibly be listening and recording everything you do.
    Of course no company is 100% trust worthy.

    But tell me all the times Apple has violated their customers privacy? I can't think of ONE SINGLE EVENT.

    I can think of dozens of times Google has. Same with Amazon. Both are in the data mining/advertising business.  

    So I'm NOT BLINDLY trusting Apple. My trust is based on FACTS and over 30 years of the companies history.
    That's both myopic and a straw man. I'm no more worried about Amazon secretly building a backdoor into my Echo for the gov't to use as I am about Apple doing so. What I am constantly aware of and what every major tech company has been a victim of are bugs that allow their devices to be hacked.

    For some reason you're focusing on how you feel about a company instead of the reality that all internet connected devices have the potential to be compromised. Apple has countless bugs that allow their devices to be hacked—some likely patched right away, and others that have taken years to figure before they been notified.

    No company is immune, no company will ever be immune, and if you think that by disabling "Hey Siri" via a software toggle button means it's impossible that your iPhone's microphones (or cameras) could be recording you without your knowledge or permission, then you being foolish. Same goes for your Mac or WinPC or whatever you use.
  • Reply 83 of 105
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:

    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    you are so naive if you don't think Alexa is not always listening.
    You called the public dumb and yet I've never read a more idiotic post from you.
     
    To make this clear so you can hopefully understand how this technology works:

    OF COURSE ALEXA IS ALWAYS LISTENING! THAT'S HOW IT FUCKING WORKS! THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO LISTEN FOR A KEYWORD WITHOUT ALWAYS LISTENING FOR THAT KEYWORD. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME—ZERO DIFFERENCE—WITH APPLE'S "HEY SIRI"! WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING IS ALWAYS RECORDING!


    ADDITIONALLY, SINCE YOU HAVE MICROPHONES AND CAMERAS AROUND YOU, IN YOUR HOME, AND ON YOUR PERSON PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THESE DEVICES ARE LISTENING, RECORDING, AND SENDING YOUR DATA TO SOME SERVER IN SOME OTHER PART OF THE WORLD! YOU SIMPLY CAN'T BE SURE, BUT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE AMAZON DESIGNED A DEVICE TO LISTEN FOR A 'WAKE WORD' THAT IT—AND ONLY IT—CAN POSSIBLY BE USING A MICROPHONE (OR CAMERA) OUTSIDE OF YOU PURPOSELY ENABLING THEM; YOUR CLAIM THAT AMAZON MUST BE DOING SOMETHING NEFARIOUS IS THE MOST MYOPIC, PARANOID, AND DOWNRIGHT STUPID THINGS I'VE EVERY READ ON THIS FORUM!

    the part you are forgetting is not IF they are listening but WHO is listening.

    I trust Apple. I don't trust Amazon. That's the whole point.
    While your blind trust in Apple and mistrust in Amazon may be your fan boyish point, that's not what you wrote. You made a claim that it's bad because it "listens" fora keyword which you then implied means it must also be recording that information because it's listening. That's both irrational and illogical, but I doubt you'll ever understand that considering you still write every fucking post about what you desire Apple to do in the future as a statement of fact of what they'l absolutely end up doing.
    well you are wrong again.

    My iPhone6 does not listen to me 24x7 while unplugged.  That feature did not start till iPhone 6s with hey Siri.
    And the Echo and Dot doesn't listen when they're not plugged in, but as you oddly mention while saying it doesn't exist, "Hey Siri can be enabled on later iPhones to work whilst on battery power, which once again disproves your point.
    Echo/Dot don't work if they are not plugged in.  If you buy one they will be plugged in 99.9999% of the time.

    My iPhone is plugged in only when I sleep. And I turn off the hey siri feature anyway.

    I have an iPhone6 so your point is not valid for me.
    So your argument is now, because you don't use the "Hey Siri" feature and have an old iPhone it's not an issue for anyone with a newer iPhone and with the "Hey Siri" feature enabled? I have "Hey Siri" enabled on my iPhone and I'm sure that's not recording what I'm saying outlaid about your rationale because I didn't say "Hey Siri."
    No my argument is I trust Apple and not Google/Amazon.

    And there no amount of bullshit you spew that will change my mind
    If that was the case then your argument wouldn't be against the concept of a digital personal assistant, which you said you disable on the iPhone.
  • Reply 84 of 105
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    sog35 said:
    Again you are making up shit. Like Apple getting hacked or government back doors. With Google I don't need to make up shit. They flatout admit they use your data to sell.
    Now you're saying Apple's security measures haven't been hacked and it's not possible for Apple's OSes to ever be hacked? Brilliant¡
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 85 of 105
    I'm already concerned about how negatively analysts are going to look at this Apple Echo-clone product. I'm sure they'll say Apple is already too late to the game as Amazon and Google are the dominant players who can't be beaten. I'm positive the cost of Apple's Echo-clone will cost twice as much as all the other devices on the market. Whereas Amazon and Google are being praised for their products, Apple will be criticized for offering a product that won't have much hope in capturing decent market share. Apple will be declared as an Amazon-wannabe. Amazon leads and Apple follows. Absolutely no innovation for Apple.

    Everything Amazon does is highly praised because Jeff Bezos is a god CEO who never makes mistakes. Amazon's share price will continue to soar while Apple's share price stagnates. Amazon beats Apple each and every time. Anyway, we can only blame Apple for not trying to improve on Siri while Apple is idly sitting on tens of billions of dollars in cash.
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 86 of 105
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    you are so naive if you don't think Alexa is not always listening.
    You called the public dumb and yet I've never read a more idiotic post from you.
     
    To make this clear so you can hopefully understand how this technology works:

    OF COURSE ALEXA IS ALWAYS LISTENING! THAT'S HOW IT FUCKING WORKS! THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO LISTEN FOR A KEYWORD WITHOUT ALWAYS LISTENING FOR THAT KEYWORD. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME—ZERO DIFFERENCE—WITH APPLE'S "HEY SIRI"! WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING IS ALWAYS RECORDING!


    ADDITIONALLY, SINCE YOU HAVE MICROPHONES AND CAMERAS AROUND YOU, IN YOUR HOME, AND ON YOUR PERSON PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THESE DEVICES ARE LISTENING, RECORDING, AND SENDING YOUR DATA TO SOME SERVER IN SOME OTHER PART OF THE WORLD! YOU SIMPLY CAN'T BE SURE, BUT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE AMAZON DESIGNED A DEVICE TO LISTEN FOR A 'WAKE WORD' THAT IT—AND ONLY IT—CAN POSSIBLY BE USING A MICROPHONE (OR CAMERA) OUTSIDE OF YOU PURPOSELY ENABLING THEM; YOUR CLAIM THAT AMAZON MUST BE DOING SOMETHING NEFARIOUS IS THE MOST MYOPIC, PARANOID, AND DOWNRIGHT STUPID THINGS I'VE EVERY READ ON THIS FORUM!

    the part you are forgetting is not IF they are listening but WHO is listening.

    I trust Apple. I don't trust Amazon. That's the whole point.
    The whole "ohhh.... PRIVACY!" meme is so overdone it's become silly IMHO

    If you were honestly and truly highly concerned with your personal privacy you would not be telling us what you do for a living, where you're located, how much Apple stock you own and a multitude of other personal information you've shared here over the years. Your wouldn't even be a forum member to begin with. 

    You'd only pay with cash, forget about credit cards, not ever use a rewards card, stay off the internet, not use a smartphone, not deal with a bank or ever EVER borrow money. You never buy securities, file a tax return, work for any corporation or have utilities in your name.

    You'd not register for college classes, have a driver's license, walk on public streets, visit a doctor or hospital, get any prescriptions, or join any clubs.

    Geesh, you think by making sure Amazon/Apple/Google can't listen for a keyword your personal privacy is protected? LOL! That shipped sailed 50 years ago.

     "Protecting your Privacy" has been reduced to a marketing bullet-point for companies who in reality cannot protect it. Even forgetting about the internet altogether your personal details are collected and shared via a multitude of sources just from your normal real-life activities where you can't hide behind an ad-blocker and an anonymous persona. 
    you make it sound black and white.

    Either 100% privacy or no privacy at all.  Sorry brah. There is a ton of grey.

    And I'm not willing to put a mic for Google/Amazon to listen to my conversations. Just won't.
    Do you ever use Siri? You do understand that rather than on-device processing as some other "voice assistants" do, all your requests and searches are uploaded to Apple for processing and stored on servers (which may or may not belong to them) in a supposed anonymized fashion. But OK, you trust Apple, which is fine and dandy.

    Do you also trust the carrier who handled the transmission? How about the owner of the servers who are storing that Siri data? Completely trust them too? And if the local or state police, IRS, SEC, FBI or CIA is investigating "you" for whatever reason is Apple legally bound to turn over any information they have about you and your activities (No one outside of Apple knows what they know nor can you find out) including identifiable Siri requests if served with a court order? I would think so in most cases.

    But no worries... You trust Apple more than Amazon so you're good to go. Your privacy is assured.  

    Please just stop. Your defense of Google is getting very tiring.

    Where does Google make their money" Selling ads based off data they collect. Where does Apple make money? Selling hardware. You can't be that stupid to see the difference in their business model, and which company is FAR MORE LIKELY to keep/store/track data about their users. And it's not Apple.
    Um, I didn't mention Google. Unless you're spelling Google "A-M-A-Z-O-N".
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 87 of 105
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,782member
    Fatman said:
    Apple absolutely needs to fix Siri before launching a product like this, every year the promise of better Siri is a fail.
    Totally agree. Siri is awful. Google app is so much better. When I hear Siri say "This is what I found on the web. Check it out." I want to scream. Just find the damn answer and speak it out loud like Google app. Google not only gives you the correct answer 99% of the time but often includes the background and related information and speaks that as well. The voice responses are especially important while driving.
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 88 of 105
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    volcan said:
    Fatman said:
    Apple absolutely needs to fix Siri before launching a product like this, every year the promise of better Siri is a fail.
    Totally agree. Siri is awful. Google app is so much better. When I hear Siri say "This is what I found on the web. Check it out." I want to scream. Just find the damn answer and speak it out loud like Google app. Google not only gives you the correct answer 99% of the time but often includes the background and related information and speaks that as well. The voice responses are especially important while driving.
    If Apple comes out with an Echo competitor that won't be an option.

    Note: Well, it technically could be an option just as all your queries to Alexa can be read via the Alexa app or via alexa.amazon.com, but I doubt that would how Apple would  set the system up.

    I do wish Apple had a list of my Siri queries so I could use a report button to let Apple know exactly what Siri got wrong. This is one of the brilliant things Amazon did with Alexa. I've rarely used it because the Echo understands what I'm saying quite well. I've mostly only used it to make suggestions about maintaining a conversation and being more intelligent.

    For example, if I ask Alexa "Who was the tallest US president?" I'd like it to respond with a name and then infer that I also don't know the height if I'm asking for the name, so I don't have to then ask "How tall was Abraham Lincoln?" So something like "Abraham Lincoln was the tallest president at six feet 4 inches in height," would be a more intelligent response for this type of system. Or, at the very least, be able to then say, "How tall?" or "How tall was he?," and the service would know to what and to whom I'm referring.

    Of course, Siri is worse since it just brings up a bunch of links after saying "Here's what I found on the web."

    While I see no market for Echo Look, there's obviously a market for AI with a mic and camera (and other sensors). This is all in its infancy.
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 89 of 105
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,717member
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    you are so naive if you don't think Alexa is not always listening.
    You called the public dumb and yet I've never read a more idiotic post from you.
     
    To make this clear so you can hopefully understand how this technology works:

    OF COURSE ALEXA IS ALWAYS LISTENING! THAT'S HOW IT FUCKING WORKS! THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO LISTEN FOR A KEYWORD WITHOUT ALWAYS LISTENING FOR THAT KEYWORD. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME—ZERO DIFFERENCE—WITH APPLE'S "HEY SIRI"! WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING IS ALWAYS RECORDING!


    ADDITIONALLY, SINCE YOU HAVE MICROPHONES AND CAMERAS AROUND YOU, IN YOUR HOME, AND ON YOUR PERSON PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THESE DEVICES ARE LISTENING, RECORDING, AND SENDING YOUR DATA TO SOME SERVER IN SOME OTHER PART OF THE WORLD! YOU SIMPLY CAN'T BE SURE, BUT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE AMAZON DESIGNED A DEVICE TO LISTEN FOR A 'WAKE WORD' THAT IT—AND ONLY IT—CAN POSSIBLY BE USING A MICROPHONE (OR CAMERA) OUTSIDE OF YOU PURPOSELY ENABLING THEM; YOUR CLAIM THAT AMAZON MUST BE DOING SOMETHING NEFARIOUS IS THE MOST MYOPIC, PARANOID, AND DOWNRIGHT STUPID THINGS I'VE EVERY READ ON THIS FORUM!

    the part you are forgetting is not IF they are listening but WHO is listening.

    I trust Apple. I don't trust Amazon. That's the whole point.
    The whole "ohhh.... PRIVACY!" meme is so overdone it's become silly IMHO

    If you were honestly and truly highly concerned with your personal privacy you would not be telling us what you do for a living, where you're located, how much Apple stock you own and a multitude of other personal information you've shared here over the years. Your wouldn't even be a forum member to begin with. 

    You'd only pay with cash, forget about credit cards, not ever use a rewards card, stay off the internet, not use a smartphone, not deal with a bank or ever EVER borrow money. You never buy securities, file a tax return, work for any corporation or have utilities in your name.

    You'd not register for college classes, have a driver's license, walk on public streets, visit a doctor or hospital, get any prescriptions, or join any clubs.

    Geesh, you think by making sure Amazon/Apple/Google can't listen for a keyword your personal privacy is protected? LOL! That shipped sailed 50 years ago.

     "Protecting your Privacy" has been reduced to a marketing bullet-point for companies who in reality cannot protect it. Even forgetting about the internet altogether your personal details are collected and shared via a multitude of sources just from your normal real-life activities where you can't hide behind an ad-blocker and an anonymous persona. 
    you make it sound black and white.

    Either 100% privacy or no privacy at all.  Sorry brah. There is a ton of grey.

    And I'm not willing to put a mic for Google/Amazon to listen to my conversations. Just won't.
    Do you ever use Siri? You do understand that rather than on-device processing as some other "voice assistants" do, all your requests and searches are uploaded to Apple for processing and stored on servers (which may or may not belong to them) in a supposed anonymized fashion. But OK, you trust Apple, which is fine and dandy.

    Do you also trust the carrier who handled the transmission? How about the owner of the servers who are storing that Siri data? Completely trust them too? And if the local or state police, IRS, SEC, FBI or CIA is investigating "you" for whatever reason is Apple legally bound to turn over any information they have about you and your activities (No one outside of Apple knows what they know nor can you find out) including identifiable Siri requests if served with a court order? I would think so in most cases.

    But no worries... You trust Apple more than Amazon so you're good to go. Your privacy is assured.  
    "Your privacy is assured"...  except for the fact you don't really know what Apple keeps internal or sends to vendors including Amazon.  From March 2 on AppleInsider :

    "Apple customerswere also affected by the outage, with some users of the iOS and Mac App Stores, iCloud Drive, Notes, iCloud backup, Apple TV, and Apple Music encountering issues during the downtime. " when AWS went down


    edited April 2017
  • Reply 90 of 105
    SIRI is the worst of the 3 main digital assistants, so apple needs to upgrade SIRI before they base anything off of it.   Apple a couple years late to the home assistant game.  Apple trying to follow instead of leading.  Innovation has been lost at apple.
  • Reply 91 of 105
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    davestall said:
    SIRI is the worst of the 3 main digital assistants, so apple needs to upgrade SIRI before they base anything off of it.  Apple trying to follow instead of leading.  Innovation has been lost at apple.
    1) Not a single word of that is true.

    2) Is there a reason you can't spell the name of the service properly? You're probable one of those people that use iTouch, iWatch, I-Phone, and MAC.
    edited April 2017 brucemcwatto_cobra
  • Reply 92 of 105
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,630member
    Soli said:

    sog35 said:
    Soli said:

    Soli said:

    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    you are so naive if you don't think Alexa is not always listening.
    You called the public dumb and yet I've never read a more idiotic post from you.
     
    To make this clear so you can hopefully understand how this technology works:

    OF COURSE ALEXA IS ALWAYS LISTENING! THAT'S HOW IT FUCKING WORKS! THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO LISTEN FOR A KEYWORD WITHOUT ALWAYS LISTENING FOR THAT KEYWORD. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME—ZERO DIFFERENCE—WITH APPLE'S "HEY SIRI"! WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING IS ALWAYS RECORDING!


    ADDITIONALLY, SINCE YOU HAVE MICROPHONES AND CAMERAS AROUND YOU, IN YOUR HOME, AND ON YOUR PERSON PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THESE DEVICES ARE LISTENING, RECORDING, AND SENDING YOUR DATA TO SOME SERVER IN SOME OTHER PART OF THE WORLD! YOU SIMPLY CAN'T BE SURE, BUT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE AMAZON DESIGNED A DEVICE TO LISTEN FOR A 'WAKE WORD' THAT IT—AND ONLY IT—CAN POSSIBLY BE USING A MICROPHONE (OR CAMERA) OUTSIDE OF YOU PURPOSELY ENABLING THEM; YOUR CLAIM THAT AMAZON MUST BE DOING SOMETHING NEFARIOUS IS THE MOST MYOPIC, PARANOID, AND DOWNRIGHT STUPID THINGS I'VE EVERY READ ON THIS FORUM!

    the part you are forgetting is not IF they are listening but WHO is listening.

    I trust Apple. I don't trust Amazon. That's the whole point.
    While your blind trust in Apple and mistrust in Amazon may be your fan boyish point, 
    It's not at all fanboyish to trust Apple more than Amazon -- they have different business models, and Apple's is much more aligned with my desire for privacy than a reseller like Amazon or especially an ad company like google. 

    case in point, the lack of denial on amazon selling user data:

    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/27/amazon-echo-look
    You should NEVER blindly trust any company. The fact that you don't understand this simple fact or that a microphone listening for a keyword doesn't mean it's always recording. Additionally, you need to consider that a device with microphones that doesn't have a digital personal assistant feature doesn't mean it can't possibly be listening and recording everything you do.
    Of course no company is 100% trust worthy.

    But tell me all the times Apple has violated their customers privacy? I can't think of ONE SINGLE EVENT.

    I can think of dozens of times Google has. Same with Amazon. Both are in the data mining/advertising business.  

    So I'm NOT BLINDLY trusting Apple. My trust is based on FACTS and over 30 years of the companies history.
    That's both myopic and a straw man. I'm no more worried about Amazon secretly building a backdoor into my Echo for the gov't to use as I am about Apple doing so. What I am constantly aware of and what every major tech company has been a victim of are bugs that allow their devices to be hacked.

    For some reason you're focusing on how you feel about a company instead of the reality that all internet connected devices have the potential to be compromised. Apple has countless bugs that allow their devices to be hacked—some likely patched right away, and others that have taken years to figure before they been notified.

    No company is immune, no company will ever be immune, and if you think that by disabling "Hey Siri" via a software toggle button means it's impossible that your iPhone's microphones (or cameras) could be recording you without your knowledge or permission, then you being foolish. Same goes for your Mac or WinPC or whatever you use.
    You watch too much TV series.
  • Reply 93 of 105
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,979member
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    you are so naive if you don't think Alexa is not always listening.
    You called the public dumb and yet I've never read a more idiotic post from you.
     
    To make this clear so you can hopefully understand how this technology works:

    OF COURSE ALEXA IS ALWAYS LISTENING! THAT'S HOW IT FUCKING WORKS! THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO LISTEN FOR A KEYWORD WITHOUT ALWAYS LISTENING FOR THAT KEYWORD. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME—ZERO DIFFERENCE—WITH APPLE'S "HEY SIRI"! WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING IS ALWAYS RECORDING!


    ADDITIONALLY, SINCE YOU HAVE MICROPHONES AND CAMERAS AROUND YOU, IN YOUR HOME, AND ON YOUR PERSON PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THESE DEVICES ARE LISTENING, RECORDING, AND SENDING YOUR DATA TO SOME SERVER IN SOME OTHER PART OF THE WORLD! YOU SIMPLY CAN'T BE SURE, BUT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE AMAZON DESIGNED A DEVICE TO LISTEN FOR A 'WAKE WORD' THAT IT—AND ONLY IT—CAN POSSIBLY BE USING A MICROPHONE (OR CAMERA) OUTSIDE OF YOU PURPOSELY ENABLING THEM; YOUR CLAIM THAT AMAZON MUST BE DOING SOMETHING NEFARIOUS IS THE MOST MYOPIC, PARANOID, AND DOWNRIGHT STUPID THINGS I'VE EVERY READ ON THIS FORUM!

    the part you are forgetting is not IF they are listening but WHO is listening.

    I trust Apple. I don't trust Amazon. That's the whole point.
    The whole "ohhh.... PRIVACY!" meme is so overdone it's become silly IMHO

    If you were honestly and truly highly concerned with your personal privacy you would not be telling us what you do for a living, where you're located, how much Apple stock you own and a multitude of other personal information you've shared here over the years. Your wouldn't even be a forum member to begin with. 

    You'd only pay with cash, forget about credit cards, not ever use a rewards card, stay off the internet, not use a smartphone, not deal with a bank or ever EVER borrow money. You never buy securities, file a tax return, work for any corporation or have utilities in your name.

    You'd not register for college classes, have a driver's license, walk on public streets, visit a doctor or hospital, get any prescriptions, or join any clubs.

    Geesh, you think by making sure Amazon/Apple/Google can't listen for a keyword your personal privacy is protected? LOL! That shipped sailed 50 years ago.

     "Protecting your Privacy" has been reduced to a marketing bullet-point for companies who in reality cannot protect it. Even forgetting about the internet altogether your personal details are collected and shared via a multitude of sources just from your normal real-life activities where you can't hide behind an ad-blocker and an anonymous persona. 
    you make it sound black and white.

    Either 100% privacy or no privacy at all.  Sorry brah. There is a ton of grey.

    And I'm not willing to put a mic for Google/Amazon to listen to my conversations. Just won't.
    Do you ever use Siri? You do understand that rather than on-device processing as some other "voice assistants" do, all your requests and searches are uploaded to Apple for processing and stored on servers (which may or may not belong to them) in a supposed anonymized fashion. But OK, you trust Apple, which is fine and dandy.

    Do you also trust the carrier who handled the transmission? How about the owner of the servers who are storing that Siri data? Completely trust them too? And if the local or state police, IRS, SEC, FBI or CIA is investigating "you" for whatever reason is Apple legally bound to turn over any information they have about you and your activities (No one outside of Apple knows what they know nor can you find out) including identifiable Siri requests if served with a court order? I would think so in most cases.

    But no worries... You trust Apple more than Amazon so you're good to go. Your privacy is assured.  

    Please just stop. Your defense of Google is getting very tiring.

    Where does Google make their money" Selling ads based off data they collect. Where does Apple make money? Selling hardware. You can't be that stupid to see the difference in their business model, and which company is FAR MORE LIKELY to keep/store/track data about their users. And it's not Apple.
    Where in his post is he defending Google? 
    Soli
  • Reply 94 of 105
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,527member
    As I have posted before, I only see an Apple "Echo-like" device making sense as complimenting Apple Music as the go-to-market approach. A Siri interface with HomeKit to control other services is complimentary. 
  • Reply 95 of 105
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,043member
    jbdragon said:
    Echo a hit? It's doing OK, but a hit? No! Go Google selling numbers and it's around 9 million sold to date. That's since it's been released. Apple sold over 12 million Apple Watches last year alone. My Apple Watch is a better Echo!!! It's not tied down to a single location because of a power cord so it's everywhere I am. I don't have to touch my watch, just say Hey Siri and a command. It actually works quite well other then it's a little slow. It is the Original Apple Watch.

    For example just now from seeing other comments on things like Joke with Echo, so I asked my watch, Hey Siri, Tell me a Joke. It was doing a number of different ones, I liked this Classic, "How many Apple Watches does it take to screw in a bulb? Two: one to screw it in and another to watch. Get it? Watch! Haha!"

    From setting reminders, and timers, and asking questions like When to the S.F. Giants play, and it shows me right on the screen. There's Homekit support, though I haven't tried it yet as I don't have any of them devices yet. I'm always learning how to do new things.

    I'm not sure why Apple really needs a stand alone device like a Echo and Google's Copy of the Echo. The Sales numbers doesn't really show a huge demand. How about Apple releasing a Kinect type device that plugs into a Apple TV4? They do have a USB3 port on the back that's generally never used. You could plug into that and now you can have Facetime support on your TV which would be kind of cool, and Siri support always on without having to hit a button on the remote and talk into that. Other then that, I don't really see a big need to copy the Echo.

    I wonder if I can open and close my Garage door using Siri? I can control it on my Apple Watch by starting the app and hitting the door open button, but I wonder if Siri would work also? I'm going to have to try that.
    Exactly... and they already seem to heading that way.
    Airpods replace shuffle.
    iPod Classic replaced mostly by iPodTouch.
    IPhone and watch cover mobile
    Mac and AppleTV fixed locations with screens.

    The missing link to me is iPodNano is out in the cold. Apple could replace that with a T1 powered iOS device and potentially turn every lightening speaker dock and car audio system out there into a Siri device. Team with Beats and build speakers with device bundled or built-in.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 96 of 105
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 2,722member
    I have a Echo and Alexa is almost perfect in understanding me and executed my request!  Siri is just stupid!  I turn Siri off on all my Apple devices because I get frustrated at the results from Siri!  I am very happy with Amazon's Alexa and never buy Apple's come lately voice assistant because it plain stupid and frustration.
    Why would you turn it off? Maybe it doesn't excel at the kind of requests you're giving it, but there are so many simple things you can do via voice that work just fine. It makes no sense that you'd fully disable it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 97 of 105
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,527member
    Are people even reading the articles on this site?   It should be  well known that Siri is going to improve quickly 
    based on the VocalIQ acquisition 

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/10/02/apple-enhances-siri-team-with-purchase-of-vocaliq-a-car-focused-british-speech-tech-firm
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/05/30/apples-vocaliq-takeover-could-hint-at-siri-upgrades-for-wwdc-and-beyond ;

    I thought it was going to happen last year but significant merging of the best of Siri with VocalIQ tech naturally is going to take some time. 
    I've never had doubts that Siri was due for improvement.  Apple telegraphed the improvements 2 years ago. 
    It has to happen at some point, and I certainly hope that a large (step function) improvement to Siri comes with 2017 releases.  Unlike other companies that tend to do the "fast A/B testing, update on-the-fly, go forward & back" iterative improvement for cloud services, Apple likes to do things in a "big bang" approach and make a splash with it.  I know that there is almost uniform belief that Apple's approach to cloud services like this is wrong, but it is early in the game too.  We shall see.
  • Reply 98 of 105
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,259member
    I'm already concerned about how negatively analysts are going to look at this Apple Echo-clone product. I'm sure they'll say Apple is already too late to the game as Amazon and Google are the dominant players who can't be beaten. I'm positive the cost of Apple's Echo-clone will cost twice as much as all the other devices on the market. Whereas Amazon and Google are being praised for their products, Apple will be criticized for offering a product that won't have much hope in capturing decent market share. Apple will be declared as an Amazon-wannabe. Amazon leads and Apple follows. Absolutely no innovation for Apple.

    Everything Amazon does is highly praised because Jeff Bezos is a god CEO who never makes mistakes. Amazon's share price will continue to soar while Apple's share price stagnates. Amazon beats Apple each and every time. Anyway, we can only blame Apple for not trying to improve on Siri while Apple is idly sitting on tens of billions of dollars in cash.

    It's ok no one really listens to online pundits anymore.   This is why you have this sort of universal lambasting of the Touchbar Macbook Pro happen and then the sales numbers come in and Apple has sold as many as they could make.   Looking at todays online "news" websites their actual payload content is a fraction of the advertising.  It's all about ad impressions and young folks are astute enough to know click-bait when they see it.  

    If an Apple product ships with voice control and good sound a good portion of Mac ecosystem users will sell their Echo and Google Homes. 

    Apple will blow by Alexa because they can ship voice products to so many more countries. 
    fastasleepmattinozmacplusplus
  • Reply 99 of 105
    jdgazjdgaz Posts: 354member
    Personally I think that Apple does a pretty poor job helping people understand what their products can do, and how best to use them. Siri just being one of those where too little has been done to show what it can do. 15 second TV spots don't really cut it. Give people some resources / how to stuff / maybe even an online manual god forbid. JMHO. 
  • Reply 100 of 105
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    jdgaz said:
    Personally I think that Apple does a pretty poor job helping people understand what their products can do, and how best to use them. Siri just being one of those where too little has been done to show what it can do. 15 second TV spots don't really cut it. Give people some resources / how to stuff / maybe even an online manual god forbid. JMHO. 
    Amazon has been great with Alexa. Every week I get an email that showcases different commands, including popular Skills (3rd-party apps for Alexa). If there's something timely, it will usually have an example for that event, like the Friday before the Super Bowl saying how you can ask Alexa for the score.

    With Siri, there are countless commands that I've tried with little to no success that I've then eschewed and forgotten about. They may work brilliantly now but without having any reminders I still only use Siri for about a dozen commands that I've been using for years despite its increased intelligence and integration into the OS.

    One thing I love about Alexa is there's an app and website that will show me a list of every request I've made. I can then report back to Amazon that it was incorrect and why it was incorrect, or simply use it for future reference. For example, I like using my Echo to play Spotify's "Discover Weekly" playlist to find new music. What's great about being able to go back to read your queries and answers is that it's like having a personal stenographer. I make requests for complex answers that I don't plan to remember then and there, but will go back and copy the text answer later. Like asking what song is playing and then being able to go back at more convenient time to purchase the song from the iTS, athough Siri automatically has a category for this when you have Shazam installed.
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