Apple's Siri-based Echo competitor to carry premium price, feature high-end audio with 1 w...

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  • Reply 41 of 112
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,614member
    Soli said:
    7 Tweeters…
    I'm in
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones. That's the foremost component people should be considering for this product. After that, then we can consider how good the speakers are.
    I suppose, but I have Siri on my wrist all the time anyway. YMMV.
    Apple better make sure Siri works better then it is currently!  Alexa is very functional!  If Siri stumbles, Apple will have lots of returns no matter how good the audi quality!

    This is important! Siri sucks! !!! and !!!

    leeeh2 said:
    I have the old airport express with speakers to get me music in all my rooms. I could see this replacing that setup.
    But...why? Is there a feature on this device you value?
  • Reply 42 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,029member
    gatorguy said:
    Apple better make sure Siri works better then it is currently!  Alexa is very functional!  If Siri stumbles, Apple will have lots of returns no matter how good the audi quality!

    No they won't. Apple fans for the most part are a dedicated bunch and willing to overlook short-term issues while waiting for OS OTA improvements. Even if the press wasn't favorable at first release they'll still sell millions. There's faith that Apple will make it right. 
    Of course Apple will make it right. This is a high-end speaker and people will buy it for their music listening pleasure, not for ordering toilet paper. Why wouldn't Apple produce a high-end speaker and compete with other known brands in that market with all the technologies and patents it owns? They may design a custom chip for perfect sound clarity. They may take a stream and resample it to higher bitrates on the fly, possibilities are endless. This is not faith, those are engineering facts.
    edited May 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 112
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,614member
    I'm pretty sure nobody wants this. At least that's what people here have been saying for the last two years. But then again, they also said that nobody wants a phone larger than an iPhone 4. An nobody wants a tablet bigger (or smaller) than the original iPad. Next up: Nobody want wireless charging.
    Well played, sir.

    I do like hearing about what AI readers value. But I freely admit it may be way different than what I "want." A lot of the commentators hyperbole is widely misplaced.
  • Reply 44 of 112
    W1 chip. I never even paid attention to this, but now it makes total sense.

    The W1 isn't going to be just for headphones for quick pairing and low power consumption. It's going to be the chip that enables quick, reliable and secure connections to all sorts of HomeKit devices. I bet Apple makes the W1 available to accessory makers.
    Imagine if iOS 11 devices that are on the same local network as a Siri station are automatically paired with it, and when you say Hey Siri or some other command, it uses your device's microphone for the input, but is live-relaying it to the Siri device, where the command is actually being used?

    They'd solve that ridiculous "shouting at the device across the room problem" that this entire product concept suffers from.

    Edit: Imagine commercials with someone talking quietly into their Apple Watch and making a song play at a party and running away. Gold Jerry.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 45 of 112
    sog35 said:
    davestall said:
    2  Years late to the party.  SIRI is considered the worst of the 3 main personal assistants, combine that poor "AI" with the audio hardware the majority of the population considers a joke (Beats) and you will have one very overpriced poor performing product.  Sounds about right for apple.   But the Apple Sheep will flock to it no matter how late, behind the times, or overpriced the thing is.
    2 years to late? LOL. Hell no. Watch it outsell the Echo from day one.

    Beats isn't considered a joke. Its the #1 premium headphone brand.

    Hate to break it to you but Apple is more powerful and influential then ever before.
    I'm just not seeing the value in this product category. Maybe thats because the existing products in the category have not been the least bit impressive. Maybe Apple has something that completely redefines this category and offers a product I would want. Because I don't want an Echo.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 112
    slprescottslprescott Posts: 763member
    Speaking of AirPlay:

    Can anyone here recommend an iPhone (not iPad) audio recording app that can send playback to an AirPlay speaker?

    Apple's "Voice Memos" and "Music Memos" seem not to support AirPlay.  Searching yesterday, I wasn't able to find an obvious solution.
  • Reply 47 of 112
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    As always the "Devil is in the details" 

    While integration with Apple TV sounds good there's nothing preventing Apple from beefing up the Siri capabilities in the ATV 5 and 
    delivering a speaker for those that have no desire for an ATV. 

    I'm still waiting for a actual use case for iBeacons.  Conceptually it's very powerful but it's clear that Apple will have to deliver something 
    keen and useful because the no one else is trying.   We are getting close with the auto unlock features in the Apple Watch but we need 
    to take this further with smart presence.  Being able to trigger actions based on your location is powerful and untapped.   Right now in HA 
    we're being sold on motion sensors that cost anywhere from $30 to $60.  That's too expensive. 

    I'm still waiting for content to be be easily space-shifted.  I'd love to enable a "follow me" mode for media where I can move content from say 
    the bedroom down to living room.  I have kids so I routinely do this. 

    HomeKit needs audio support.    This product would be a perfect entry into how to tie speakers into HK.   Sonos' marketing strategy of "ending the silent 
    home" is a good one.  Audio should be just another service that is automated. 

    Make no bones about it this speaker is designed to push Apple Music.    For the foreseeable future Apple Music is only going to be available from Sonos and 
    Apple.   That's where the money is going to be.  Apple is promoting their service revenue as a key item.   Look for that trend to continue. 

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    eightzero said:
    I'm pretty sure nobody wants this. At least that's what people here have been saying for the last two years. But then again, they also said that nobody wants a phone larger than an iPhone 4. An nobody wants a tablet bigger (or smaller) than the original iPad. Next up: Nobody want wireless charging.
    Well played, sir.

    I do like hearing about what AI readers value. But I freely admit it may be way different than what I "want." A lot of the commentators hyperbole is widely misplaced.
    A lot of is more than hyperbole. Not all trolls here are anti-Apple. Some posters like Sog swing to the other extreme. He's no better than davestall, IMO.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 49 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,029member
    sog35 said:
    davestall said:
    2  Years late to the party.  SIRI is considered the worst of the 3 main personal assistants, combine that poor "AI" with the audio hardware the majority of the population considers a joke (Beats) and you will have one very overpriced poor performing product.  Sounds about right for apple.   But the Apple Sheep will flock to it no matter how late, behind the times, or overpriced the thing is.
    2 years to late? LOL. Hell no. Watch it outsell the Echo from day one.

    Beats isn't considered a joke. Its the #1 premium headphone brand.

    Hate to break it to you but Apple is more powerful and influential then ever before.
    I'm just not seeing the value in this product category. Maybe thats because the existing products in the category have not been the least bit impressive. Maybe Apple has something that completely redefines this category and offers a product I would want. Because I don't want an Echo.
    This is not what Apple releases. Apple releases a speaker. Qualifying this as "xxx competitor" is just the wishful thinking of the authors. No one qualifies the AppleTV as something other than what it is because of its Siri support. And no one will qualify that speaker as something other than a speaker because it supports this or that.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 50 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Apple better make sure Siri works better then it is currently!  Alexa is very functional!  If Siri stumbles, Apple will have lots of returns no matter how good the audi quality!
    How do you know Siri doesn't work better than Alexa? I've posted countless examples of pros and cons for both Alexa and Siri.

    I've been using an armchair analyzing both for nearly 2.5 years, and I couldn't  say which is unequivocally better or worse than the other—all I can say is that the superiority of the microphone system of the Echo devices makes speech-to-text virtually 100% accurate, but that's not something that can be done in Watch or iPhone due to space and says nothing—NOTHING!—about the service themselves.
    stompywatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 112
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    Three things that need to work close to perfect to make this a winning product ...
    Siri, Siri and Siri
    if Siri disappoints it will be a failure - an overpriced Bluetooth speaker to join the hundreds already on the market. We're counting on you Tim! Prioritize Siri over the new HQ landscaping. 😊
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    eightzero said:
    Soli said:
    7 Tweeters…
    I'm in
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones. That's the foremost component people should be considering for this product. After that, then we can consider how good the speakers are.
    I suppose, but I have Siri on my wrist all the time anyway. YMMV.
    Me, too, and my iPhone and Mac. I use Siri on all these devices, although rarely on my Mac. They all work, but only the iPhone (and iPad) respond to "Hey Siri." Even then it's simply not as natural feeling as Alexa.

    First of, saying "Hey Siri" is a little more harsh to say than "Alexa" despite the latter having more syllables (I forgot the linguistic term for what the throat does when it stops abruptly). Then there's having to be speak more clearly, a little slower, and often louder than when speaking to the Echo. I can use a casual, inside, library voice to call the Echo from across the room. I've never been able to do that with Siri except when it's right by my mouth. The only time I have to raise my voice when directing my query to the Echo is when I'm playing music loudly—which is pretty impressive that it can pick out the keyword from the music when the microphones are within inches of the speaker system, hence my repeated statements about the benefits of multiple far-field microphones in a larger, home-based device have clear advantages for a digital personal assistant.
  • Reply 53 of 112
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    1983 said:
    The hardware spec sounded impressive until they said 'based on Beats technology' which sound quality wise is far from great. Also no matter how good the spec might be, it uses bloody Siri! Still the worst DPA out there!
    IF this is legit the sound quality better be too. I have a Bose SoundLink mini and the sound quality is amazing for the size. This thing would have to blow that out of the water for me to spend the money. I have Siri on my wrist and my phone and tablet. I don't need it on a speaker too.
  • Reply 54 of 112
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member

    sog35 said:
    I'm pretty sure nobody wants this. At least that's what people here have been saying for the last two years. But then again, they also said that nobody wants a phone larger than an iPhone 4. An nobody wants a tablet bigger (or smaller) than the original iPad. Next up: Nobody want wireless charging.
    Nobody wanted a non iOS based Echo speaker. Lets get that clear.

    And its not like the Echo has been a massive success. They sold less Echo's in the last 4 years then Apple sold Airpods it its first 6 months.
    How do you know when neither Apple nor Amazon release sales figures?
  • Reply 55 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Fatman said:
    We're counting on you Tim! Prioritize Siri over the new HQ landscaping. 😊
    We have to get those landscapers and construction workers back into their R&D positions¡


    stompymacxpresswatto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 112
    pscooter63pscooter63 Posts: 1,044member
    Soli said:
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones.
    Logically speaking, more microphones increases noise levels and induces phase distortions (cancellations/amplifications).  Unless that box is not summing all seven prior to its processing, and processing all seven microphones separately, then doing a compare of each output.

    Thoughts?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    1983 said:
    The hardware spec sounded impressive until they said 'based on Beats technology' which sound quality wise is far from great. Also no matter how good the spec might be, it uses bloody Siri! Still the worst DPA out there!
    IF this is legit the sound quality better be too. I have a Bose SoundLink mini and the sound quality is amazing for the size. This thing would have to blow that out of the water for me to spend the money. I have Siri on my wrist and my phone and tablet. I don't need it on a speaker too.
    That has BT, right? You can even buy the $50 Echo Dot and play music through it with simple voice commands. I do with Spotify from the Echo to my TV which is connected to sound system. I can't imagine a more seamless integration for having so many separate devices pushing wireless signals.

    I'm sure any such competitor form Apple would let you connect your Bose.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Soli said:
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones.
    Logically speaking, more microphones increases noise levels and induces phase distortions (cancellations/amplifications).  Unless that box is not summing all seven prior to its processing, and processing all seven microphones separately, then doing a compare of each output.

    Thoughts?
    It's beyond my ken to know how the audio is processed. All I know is that it feels like "magic' how well it works after years of using Siri and this being Amazon's first foray into this area. Remember this came out around January 2015. It's also surprisingly fast that it feels like it knows the answer to your question even before you finish asking, which I still can't say I've ever experienced with Siri on the iPhone.
  • Reply 59 of 112
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Soli said:
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones.
    Logically speaking, more microphones increases noise levels and induces phase distortions (cancellations/amplifications).  Unless that box is not summing all seven prior to its processing, and processing all seven microphones separately, then doing a compare of each output.

    Thoughts?
    Poor design in the Echo.  The Google Home has two microphones and it's just as accurate if not more than Echo and Echo Dot.    I don't see Apple putting more than two microphones in. 

    This horse race is going to come down to two Thoroughbreds.  Apple and Google.    Not even Cortana or Bixby is going to put up much resistance.  For this product work you really have to own a lot of the mobile space. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 112
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,582member
    7 Tweeters…
    I'm in
    That's not necessarily a good thing unless they're time aligned.   And don't people care about stereo anymore?
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