Apple's Siri-based Echo competitor to carry premium price, feature high-end audio with 1 w...

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  • Reply 81 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Siri is on over 200 million devices.    Alexa is an amoeba by comparison. 

    Apple uses many cloud backends.  Azure and and their own homegrown stuff. 

    I want Amazon to succeed but I just can't see it happening.    Apple now is the Armageddon of Tech.
    When they come into a market in earnest they become a black hole that sucks the profit in.

     We need many players ...but this is the sport of Kings and vendors that don't own platforms are at a disadvantage. 
    1) Siri is surely on well over 200 million devices since we're talking since the iPhone 4S back in 2011, and now with the iPad, Mac, Apple TV, and Watch. I'd say over 500 million.

    2) I don't think you did a single calculation to figure out how many devices support Alexa. In another thread—maybe in a reply to you—I list many of the devices in which Alexa is supported. Remember it's also supported by 3rd-party HW makers, too. 

    3) How is Amazon not a successful company?
  • Reply 82 of 112
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
    Siri's future is beyond radical. 

    Remember they acquired VocalIQ and then followed with up with two more AI/Machine Learning acquisition in Perceptio and Turi.    They've doubled down.  There is no point in devoting resources to deprecated services when they're preparing to roll out top modern stuff. 
  • Reply 83 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Soli said:
    1983 said:
    The hardware spec sounded impressive until they said 'based on Beats technology' which sound quality wise is far from great. Also no matter how good the spec might be, it uses bloody Siri! Still the worst DPA out there!
    IF this is legit the sound quality better be too. I have a Bose SoundLink mini and the sound quality is amazing for the size. This thing would have to blow that out of the water for me to spend the money. I have Siri on my wrist and my phone and tablet. I don't need it on a speaker too.
    That has BT, right? You can even buy the $50 Echo Dot and play music through it with simple voice commands. I do with Spotify from the Echo to my TV which is connected to sound system. I can't imagine a more seamless integration for having so many separate devices pushing wireless signals.

    I'm sure any such competitor form Apple would let you connect your Bose.
    The Bose SoundLink mini is a BT speaker. I love it. What ever Apple might be doing would have to be insanely great for me to ditch it. 
    My point is that you don't have to ditch it with these devices. You can simply ask the device to play music through it so you could use it in another area of your home/yard where the BT signal will reach. I do BOTH WAYS with my Echo. One I push audio from the Echo to BT speakers, and another where I push audio from my iPhone via BT to the Echo. These devices make connecting as easy as setting a timer via Siri… one simple command instead of going though apps and setting to tell it to connect.
  • Reply 84 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
    I keep asking and I never get a valid response as to what's broken about Siri that would tell you (and others) to want all work into on better mic and speaker system from being developed?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 85 of 112
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,291member
    Soli said:
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
    I keep asking and I never get a valid response as to what's broken about Siri that would tell you (and others) to want all work into on better mic and speaker system from being developed?
    I think people like parroting what the major media wanted us to believe. If everyone said Siri sucks then of course it is true, even though from my own experience Siri is as capable as other AI Voice Assistant if not even better in certain circumstances.
    edited May 2017 Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 86 of 112
    frantisekfrantisek Posts: 733member
    I think that most important will be how "Siri 2.0" will work. 
  • Reply 87 of 112
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,614member
    Soli said:
    eightzero said:
    Soli said:
    7 Tweeters…
    I'm in
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones. That's the foremost component people should be considering for this product. After that, then we can consider how good the speakers are.
    I suppose, but I have Siri on my wrist all the time anyway. YMMV.
    Me, too, and my iPhone and Mac. I use Siri on all these devices, although rarely on my Mac. They all work, but only the iPhone (and iPad) respond to "Hey Siri." Even then it's simply not as natural feeling as Alexa.

    First of, saying "Hey Siri" is a little more harsh to say than "Alexa" despite the latter having more syllables (I forgot the linguistic term for what the throat does when it stops abruptly). Then there's having to be speak more clearly, a little slower, and often louder than when speaking to the Echo. I can use a casual, inside, library voice to call the Echo from across the room. I've never been able to do that with Siri except when it's right by my mouth. The only time I have to raise my voice when directing my query to the Echo is when I'm playing music loudly—which is pretty impressive that it can pick out the keyword from the music when the microphones are within inches of the speaker system, hence my repeated statements about the benefits of multiple far-field microphones in a larger, home-based device have clear advantages for a digital personal assistant.
    This is insightful and interesting. Thanks for sharing.

    I do still have a hard time personally envisioning what I'd want an Echo for. I don't simply fill the room with music. When I want stuff from Amazon, I usually need to shop the site. I'm not a HomeKit guy. 

    I dislike the ATV4 Siri remote. It...works, but it isn't something I relish.
  • Reply 88 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,028member
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
    The point of this speaker is to listen to high quality music just like any other high quality speaker. Apple hasn't built iPhones, Macs, iPads, iPods, AppleTVs, Apple Watches for Siri and won't certainly build a speaker for Siri. A voice interface supporting 20+ languages isn't just radical, it is a breakthrough in technology history.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 89 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,028member
    kevin kee said:
    Soli said:
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
    I keep asking and I never get a valid response as to what's broken about Siri that would tell you (and others) to want all work into on better mic and speaker system from being developed?
    I think people like parroting what the major media wanted us to believe. If everyone said Siri sucks then of course it is true, even though from my own experience Siri is as capable as other AI Voice Assistant if not even better in certain circumstances.
    Better in most circumstances. For example Alexa requires a pattern: "Alexa ask..." Siri doesn't require such a pattern, you can talk to Siri in a loose format and yet it can be set to understand you in any of 20+ languages.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 90 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    kevin kee said:
    Soli said:
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
    I keep asking and I never get a valid response as to what's broken about Siri that would tell you (and others) to want all work into on better mic and speaker system from being developed?
    I think people like parroting what the major media wanted us to believe. If everyone said Siri sucks then of course it is true, even though from my own experience Siri is as capable as other AI Voice Assistant if not even better in certain circumstances.
    Better in most circumstances. For example Alexa requires a pattern: "Alexa ask..." Siri doesn't require such a pattern, you can talk to Siri in a loose format and yet it can be set to understand you in any of 20+ languages.
    None of them seem to maintain a conversation, which I'd think would be a primary goal for all these devices. instead they mostly seem to function like they have goldfish memories. There are some notable exceptions. For example, with Siri I can ask "What's the weather today?" and then follow it up with "How about tomorrow?" to get tomorrow's weather, and with Alexa I can come back the next day and say "Alexa play" to have it continue from exactly where it stopped before, and most useful for me is saying "Alexa restart" from my bedroom to get the meditation Skill to start without the harsher sounding Alexa preamble or having to specifically call on that Skill again.
  • Reply 91 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,028member
    Soli said:
    kevin kee said:
    Soli said:
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
    I keep asking and I never get a valid response as to what's broken about Siri that would tell you (and others) to want all work into on better mic and speaker system from being developed?
    I think people like parroting what the major media wanted us to believe. If everyone said Siri sucks then of course it is true, even though from my own experience Siri is as capable as other AI Voice Assistant if not even better in certain circumstances.
    Better in most circumstances. For example Alexa requires a pattern: "Alexa ask..." Siri doesn't require such a pattern, you can talk to Siri in a loose format and yet it can be set to understand you in any of 20+ languages.
    None of them seem to maintain a conversation, which I'd think would be a primary goal for all these devices. instead they mostly seem to function like they have goldfish memories. There are some notable exceptions. For example, with Siri I can ask "What's the weather today?" and then follow it up with "How about tomorrow?" to get tomorrow's weather, and with Alexa I can come back the next day and say "Alexa play" to have it continue from exactly where it stopped before, and most useful for me is saying "Alexa restart" from my bedroom to get the meditation Skill to start without the harsher sounding Alexa preamble or having to specifically call on that Skill again.
    This is not a big deal, all playback applications default to last played thing. If you issue the play command without argument it defaults to last played. The point here you must learn commands and issue them in correct pattern as appears in example queries in Echo's own web site. Sorry I cannot test it myself because I belong to those dark crowds whose language is found not worth to support by Amazon's ambitions always greater than its capabilities.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 92 of 112
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    kevin kee said:
    I think people like parroting what the major media wanted us to believe. If everyone said Siri sucks then of course it is true, even though from my own experience Siri is as capable as other AI Voice Assistant if not even better in certain circumstances.
    I disagree that Siri is as capable as Google. First, Siri does not understand conversational context very well and also has trouble with homonyms. Secondly, most of the time Siri searches end up with the words "This is what I found on the web." where as Google usually finds the correct answer and reads the entire subject aloud. Thirdly, Siri simply doesn't have enough data and often ignores your location. For example I asked for magnetic signs but Siri said I could not find any magnetic sign stores, and mind you I'm near LA where there are likely more than a thousand stores that sell magnetic signs. I asked Google and it instantly found hundreds nearby, one less than a mile from my house. I then asked Apple Maps the same query and it sent me more than 5,000 miles away to the UK. In my experience the difference between Apple's AI and Google's is night and day.
  • Reply 93 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,028member
    volcan said:
    kevin kee said:
    I think people like parroting what the major media wanted us to believe. If everyone said Siri sucks then of course it is true, even though from my own experience Siri is as capable as other AI Voice Assistant if not even better in certain circumstances.
    I disagree that Siri is as capable as Google. First, Siri does not understand conversational context very well and also has trouble with homonyms. Secondly, most of the time Siri searches end up with the words "This is what I found on the web." where as Google usually finds the correct answer and reads the entire subject aloud. Thirdly, Siri simply doesn't have enough data and often ignores your location. For example I asked for magnetic signs but Siri said I could not find any magnetic sign stores, and mind you I'm near LA where there are likely more than a thousand stores that sell magnetic signs. I asked Google and it instantly found hundreds nearby, one less than a mile from my house. I then asked Apple Maps the same query and it sent me more than 5,000 miles away to the UK. In my experience the difference between Apple's AI and Google's is night and day.
    ... as reading the entire subject aloud to you versus reading it yourself from a text.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 94 of 112

    Siri is so 2001ish. Their new voice assistant will be called HalTim:


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 95 of 112
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    macplusplus said:

    ... as reading the entire subject aloud to you versus reading it yourself from a text.
    Important to me especially when driving or in bright sunlight. Plus you have to select link and go to another website then try to find the information on the page. Very inconvenient in my opinion.
  • Reply 96 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,028member
    volcan said:
    macplusplus said:

    ... as reading the entire subject aloud to you versus reading it yourself from a text.
    Important to me especially when driving or in bright sunlight. Plus you have to select link and go to another website then try to find the information on the page. Very inconvenient in my opinion.
    At least you get a link to click. How would you click a link in spoken words?
  • Reply 97 of 112
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    macplusplus said:
    At least you get a link to click. How would you click a link in spoken words?
    If appropriate Google gives you a link as well as the spoken word and often provides a "More Info" button too.
  • Reply 98 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Soli said:
    kevin kee said:
    Soli said:
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
    I keep asking and I never get a valid response as to what's broken about Siri that would tell you (and others) to want all work into on better mic and speaker system from being developed?
    I think people like parroting what the major media wanted us to believe. If everyone said Siri sucks then of course it is true, even though from my own experience Siri is as capable as other AI Voice Assistant if not even better in certain circumstances.
    Better in most circumstances. For example Alexa requires a pattern: "Alexa ask..." Siri doesn't require such a pattern, you can talk to Siri in a loose format and yet it can be set to understand you in any of 20+ languages.
    None of them seem to maintain a conversation, which I'd think would be a primary goal for all these devices. instead they mostly seem to function like they have goldfish memories. There are some notable exceptions. For example, with Siri I can ask "What's the weather today?" and then follow it up with "How about tomorrow?" to get tomorrow's weather, and with Alexa I can come back the next day and say "Alexa play" to have it continue from exactly where it stopped before, and most useful for me is saying "Alexa restart" from my bedroom to get the meditation Skill to start without the harsher sounding Alexa preamble or having to specifically call on that Skill again.
    This is not a big deal, all playback applications default to last played thing. If you issue the play command without argument it defaults to last played. The point here you must learn commands and issue them in correct pattern as appears in example queries in Echo's own web site. Sorry I cannot test it myself because I belong to those dark crowds whose language is found not worth to support by Amazon's ambitions always greater than its capabilities.
    The point is that they should be striving for being better conversationalists. All this tech is still in its infancy because of the very limited scope in which they will maintain a previous query when considering how to answer that next query.
  • Reply 99 of 112
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    macxpress said:
    Fatman said:
    Three things that need to work close to perfect to make this a winning product ...
    Siri, Siri and Siri
    if Siri disappoints it will be a failure - an overpriced Bluetooth speaker to join the hundreds already on the market. We're counting on you Tim! Prioritize Siri over the new HQ landscaping. 😊

    I've never understood this...what the hell does Apple building a new campus have to do with Apple's product line? The two are totally unrelated. Does anyone for a second really think that Tim is sitting in his office worrying about the campus, watching over everyone, etc? The people working on the campus don't work for Apple...they're contractors. The people working on Apple aren't working on the campus. I just don't get this and its all over this forum as well as other ones. 
    Although it seems Apple employees, not necessarily Tim Cook himself, have been quite hands-on with the construction

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-campus-idUSKBN15M0CM

  • Reply 100 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,028member
    volcan said:
    macplusplus said:
    At least you get a link to click. How would you click a link in spoken words?
    If appropriate Google gives you a link as well as the spoken word and often provides a "More Info" button too.
    I assume that "More Info" button is not spoken either and comes in a clickable shape. OK then the two interfaces overlap in providing textual web links, Siri is behind by not reading these aloud. Is that such a big deal, reading aloud web links? You say it is when driving or in bright sunlight. What I don't understand, what is the point of reading you web links if you cannot tap or click on them?
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