Apple's Siri-based Echo competitor to carry premium price, feature high-end audio with 1 w...

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  • Reply 61 of 112
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,582member
    Soli said:
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones.
    Logically speaking, more microphones increases noise levels and induces phase distortions (cancellations/amplifications).  Unless that box is not summing all seven prior to its processing, and processing all seven microphones separately, then doing a compare of each output.

    Thoughts?
    It probably has complex processing and separately analyzes the signals from all 7 microphones and picks the best one.  Or the best two or something.    Also, don't forget that there are also ways you can use phase cancellation to eliminate noise, although this is usually done in very near field applications, where you have two mics close to each other and you speak into one with the other wired out-of-phase to cancel any noise coming from a distance, the same as the way that noise reducing headphones work.    The Grateful Dead used to do this to increase levels and decrease feedback.  
  • Reply 62 of 112
    alberttalbertt Posts: 3member
    It was also suggested that the device could look similar to the Mac Pro, with a cylindrical design and concave top. The device is said to be known by the codename "B238."

    I am confident that:
    The design of the current Mac Pro is for a holographic interface on the concave top with camera and depth sensor similar to leap or Kinect or similar technology for eye-hand coordination or gesture base interface. They will gradually do it soon, but it is possible that they will do it with this device for easier UI.
  • Reply 63 of 112
    alberttalbertt Posts: 3member
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    Sweet.

    Ready to shell out some $$$ for this.

    Much better than the Echo spyware that Amazon sells
    So now you believe Kuo? ;)
    And now people are on-board with a home-based digital personal assistant after saying it's a stupid idea for the past 2.5 years.
    it was a stupid idea without the iOS ecosystem
    The possibility of having a  visual interface is high because audio cues alone feels like  there is something lacking. It is very possible that with the help of the apple TV, TVs will give the visual cues simultaneously as a response or ios, macos. Another is, if it is similar to the design of the current Mac Pro, the concave top is for a 3D effect holographic interface to be projected. And of course with camera and depth sensor similar to leap or Kinect or similar technology gesture base interface.  Can you now see it?
  • Reply 64 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Soli said:
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones.
    Logically speaking, more microphones increases noise levels and induces phase distortions (cancellations/amplifications).  Unless that box is not summing all seven prior to its processing, and processing all seven microphones separately, then doing a compare of each output.

    Thoughts?
    Poor design in the Echo.  The Google Home has two microphones and it's just as accurate if not more than Echo and Echo Dot.    I don't see Apple putting more than two microphones in.
    How do you know the microphones are better as opposed to Google's service simply being better since they've been converting speech-to-text longer than anyone? If fewer microphones are inherently better than why 2 and not 1? Why does Apple have multiple microphones on many of their devices? Since Google Home is 2 years newer than the Echo why not assume that the microphones are using better technology than existed back in 2014 when the Echo was finalized?
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 65 of 112
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    Put a touch bar on it that allows you to easily control volume, tracks, like a song(heart) and other limitless features.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 112
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    What makes the Echo such an amazing tool starts with the 7-far field microphones.
    Logically speaking, more microphones increases noise levels and induces phase distortions (cancellations/amplifications).  Unless that box is not summing all seven prior to its processing, and processing all seven microphones separately, then doing a compare of each output.

    Thoughts?
    Poor design in the Echo.  The Google Home has two microphones and it's just as accurate if not more than Echo and Echo Dot.    I don't see Apple putting more than two microphones in.
    1) How do you know the microphones are better as opposed to Google's service simply being better since they've been converting speech-to-text longer than anyone?

    2) If fewer microphones are inherently better than why 2 and not 1?

    I own both.  Even my wife says the Google Home understands her better.   Siri on the other hand tends to prefer male voices is our own anecdotal experience.   That and $.50 may buy you a cup of coffee. 

    Aside from "costs of goods" I think either a really good omnidirectional or matched stereo pair microphone are ideal.   That being said I have no idea of how inexpensive the Echo mics may be.  The accuracy is close enough for me to say that if Amazon isn't paying significantly more for mics than Google there's not much to worry about. 


    Soli
  • Reply 67 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    cali said:
    Put a touch bar on it that allows you to easily control volume, tracks, like a song(heart) and other limitless features.
    I'd prefer to see physical buttons and knobs, if there are any. The beauty of such a device is that you don't have to look at it to use it. Echo has a near-invisible dial integrated into the top of the device so you can adjust volume without looking, although I can't say I've ever used it unless the music was at volume 10 which kept the microphones from hearing commands. There's also a manual button to invoke Alexa to listen and a Mute button—both of which I've never used.
  • Reply 68 of 112
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,029member
    cali said:
    Put a touch bar on it that allows you to easily control volume, tracks, like a song(heart) and other limitless features.
    No, you must bark commands for these...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 69 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    Sweet.

    Ready to shell out some $$$ for this.

    Much better than the Echo spyware that Amazon sells
    So now you believe Kuo? ;)
    And now people are on-board with a home-based digital personal assistant after saying it's a stupid idea for the past 2.5 years.
    it was a stupid idea without the iOS ecosystem
    That is what troll post looks like.

    It's people like you that are the reason normal people that like Apple's products are called Sheeple, why people choose Android to not be associated with your ilk, and why Apple users are now an example in the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

    edited May 2017
  • Reply 70 of 112
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    I"m excited for potential that all of these system have for managing content. 

    My Apple TV 4th gen has always been a pain using Siri.  Apple forces you to 
    hold the button down for the entire utterance presumably to save battery.   I 
    quickly stopped using Siri to attempt to access content.   Now with a Airplay 
    speaker with Siri I would be able to simply say
     "Hey Siri play Big Hero 6 from the beginning on the living room TV" 

    Also with TV becoming thinner and thinner I could see people Airplaying audio 
    content to a iSiriSpeak.  

  • Reply 71 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    I"m excited for potential that all of these system have for managing content. 

    My Apple TV 4th gen has always been a pain using Siri.  Apple forces you to 
    hold the button down for the entire utterance presumably to save battery.   I 
    quickly stopped using Siri to attempt to access content.   Now with a Airplay 
    speaker with Siri I would be able to simply say
     "Hey Siri play Big Hero 6 from the beginning on the living room TV" 

    Also with TV becoming thinner and thinner I could see people Airplaying audio 
    content to a iSiriSpeak.  
    1) I never gave Siri on the 4th gen Apple TV/Siri Remote a good testing because it was too annoying to have to hold the button the entire time. Plus, they still don't have any search support for "Computers" app (which is another issue in itself).

    2) It would be great to not have to push any button and have the video or audio go where I tell it (or even where it knows I'll be going), not to mention user accounts which Google Home now supports (although I've yet to see how well it does that since family members can often have very similar voices as a result of both nature and nurture).
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 72 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    Sweet.

    Ready to shell out some $$$ for this.

    Much better than the Echo spyware that Amazon sells
    So now you believe Kuo? ;)
    And now people are on-board with a home-based digital personal assistant after saying it's a stupid idea for the past 2.5 years.
    it was a stupid idea without the iOS ecosystem
    That is what troll post looks like.

    It's people like you that are the reason normal people that like Apple's products are called Sheeple, why people choose Android to not be associated with your ilk, and why Apple users are now an example in the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

    If you want to call the most wealthy, most educated, and most succesful people in the world sheep, go right ahead.
    Obvious Guy says, "You're none of those things."
  • Reply 73 of 112
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Come on people...when has Amazon beaten Apple on anything outside of books? 


    This is a two horse race.  Two years from now everyone at CES will be talking about Echo like the do now 
    with 3D TV.  Their epitaphs should be interesting. 

    I complain about Apple but the reality is companies don't grow their $$$ cache by making crappy products. 
    Apple is going back to the "old Apple' where they design their chips and control the entire pipeline.  The difference 
    is back then they didn't have the scale to make it affordable.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 74 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Come on people...when has Amazon beaten Apple on anything outside of books? 


    This is a two horse race.  Two years from now everyone at CES will be talking about Echo like the do now 
    with 3D TV.  Their epitaphs should be interesting. 

    I complain about Apple but the reality is companies don't grow their $$$ cache by making crappy products. 
    Apple is going back to the "old Apple' where they design their chips and control the entire pipeline.  The difference 
    is back then they didn't have the scale to make it affordable.  
    eReaders, home-baed digital personal assistants*, being the most diverse online retailer, cloud database and virtualization services (which Apple uses), educational support, unlimited music, movies, and TV show streaming services, and the rate at which they've grown in value, consumer usage, and brand recognition for a given timeframe from their inception, all come to mind.


    * While Siri has had a huge head start in this game over Amazon, which only debuted their service in 2015 with a single, expensive device which clearly has a fraction of the user base of Siri today, I still Alexa referenced in the media quite often. Siri, too, but rarely Google Now/"OK Google."
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 75 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    sog35 said:
    If you want to call the most wealthy, most educated, and most succesful people in the world sheep, go right ahead.
    Obvious Guy says, "You're none of those things."
    Nice straw man argument.

    It makes no difference if I'm rich or well educated. That isn't my point. You are calling Apple users sheep. Yet these sheep are the most wealthy, educated, and successful people on the planet. That is the point.

    You call Apple users sheep. But name me a single product that Apple makes that the Apple users praise that does not deserve it?

    iPhone - flatout the best phone on the planet for 10 years.
    iPad - best tablet bar none
    Watch - best smart watch, nothing even close
    Airpods - best true wireless, nothing even close

    Mac - Apple fans have criticized this product line
    AppleTV - Apple fans have criticized this product line

    So again tell me how Apple fans are sheep? 
    That is the point since it's YOUR point. I quoted YOUR exact sentence.

    If your reading comprehension was better you'd see I used you as an example of giving normal Apple users—like myself and most people on this forum—a bad name. You're just as bad, if not worse, than those that come in here and say "Apple sux! I-Phone is for people that don't understand technrabid ology," because it's rabid, myopic comments like yours that make some people hate all Apple users. Your'e the other side of the troll coin.
    edited May 2017 gatorguy
  • Reply 76 of 112
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,158member
    Fatman said:
    Three things that need to work close to perfect to make this a winning product ...
    Siri, Siri and Siri
    if Siri disappoints it will be a failure - an overpriced Bluetooth speaker to join the hundreds already on the market. We're counting on you Tim! Prioritize Siri over the new HQ landscaping. 😊

    I've never understood this...what the hell does Apple building a new campus have to do with Apple's product line? The two are totally unrelated. Does anyone for a second really think that Tim is sitting in his office worrying about the campus, watching over everyone, etc? The people working on the campus don't work for Apple...they're contractors. The people working on Apple aren't working on the campus. I just don't get this and its all over this forum as well as other ones. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 77 of 112
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    macxpress said:
    Fatman said:
    Three things that need to work close to perfect to make this a winning product ...
    Siri, Siri and Siri
    if Siri disappoints it will be a failure - an overpriced Bluetooth speaker to join the hundreds already on the market. We're counting on you Tim! Prioritize Siri over the new HQ landscaping. ߘꦬt;/div>
    I've never understood this...what the hell does Apple building a new campus have to do with Apple's product line? The two are totally unrelated. Does anyone for a second really think that Tim is sitting in his office worrying about the campus, watching over everyone, etc? The people working on the campus don't work for Apple...they're contractors. The people working on Apple aren't working on the campus. I just don't get this and its all over this forum as well as other ones. 
    Didn't the drone video show Jony Ive's team planting apricot trees?¡
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 78 of 112
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Siri is on over 200 million devices.    Alexa is an amoeba by comparison. 

    Apple uses many cloud backends.  Azure and and their own homegrown stuff. 

    I want Amazon to succeed but I just can't see it happening.    Apple now is the Armageddon of Tech.
    When they come into a market in earnest they become a black hole that sucks the profit in.

     We need many players ...but this is the sport of Kings and vendors that don't own platforms are at a disadvantage. 
    macplusplus
  • Reply 79 of 112
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    I agree with Ben Bajarin, Apple needs to fix Siri first then bring hardware to the market. If they don't have radical improvements to Siri what's the point of this speaker? 
  • Reply 80 of 112
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    Soli said:
    1983 said:
    The hardware spec sounded impressive until they said 'based on Beats technology' which sound quality wise is far from great. Also no matter how good the spec might be, it uses bloody Siri! Still the worst DPA out there!
    IF this is legit the sound quality better be too. I have a Bose SoundLink mini and the sound quality is amazing for the size. This thing would have to blow that out of the water for me to spend the money. I have Siri on my wrist and my phone and tablet. I don't need it on a speaker too.
    That has BT, right? You can even buy the $50 Echo Dot and play music through it with simple voice commands. I do with Spotify from the Echo to my TV which is connected to sound system. I can't imagine a more seamless integration for having so many separate devices pushing wireless signals.

    I'm sure any such competitor form Apple would let you connect your Bose.
    The Bose SoundLink mini is a BT speaker. I love it. What ever Apple might be doing would have to be insanely great for me to ditch it. 
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