Apple's 'iPhone 8' orders, Samsung demands impacting Chinese component supply for other ve...

AppleInsider

Supply chain reports suggest that Apple's and Samsung's rapacious demand for smartphone components will deeply impact parts available for other manufacturers, with industry-wide shortages expected in the second half of 2017.

According to a report from DigiTimes, Chinese component manufacturers have been building up component supplies, readying for the ramp-up in flagship smartphone production. Supplies are said to be at an all-time low, because inventory levels are unexpectedly low after adjustments from the previous two quarters.

Aggravating the situation, the new flagships have higher default capacities, more RAM, and multiple lenses and camera elements, putting a further pinch on component quantities needed, as compared to previous year's demands. According to the sources, orders for USB Type-C interfaces are notably more prevalent this year as well, as are 18:9 display panels.

Specific to the iPhone, volume production of the "iPhone 7s" and "iPhone 8" families are expected to put strain on casing manufacturers, like what happened in the "ultrabook" days with aluminum fabrication, and high-end fingerprint sensor component vendors.

DigiTimes has an unreliable track record in predicting Apple's future product plans. Though the publication does generally provide accurate information from Apple's supply chain, it frequently gets both timing and features wrong on upcoming products.

Recently, reports have circulated that Apple has solved the problem of embedding a Touch ID sensor in the phone's edge-to-edge OLED display. A rear-mounted sensor has been suggested some other leaks, but those are believed at this point to be early engineering prototypes.

The "iPhone 8" should be announced at a September press event, though mass production might only begin in October or November. In the meantime the company should have two LCD-based phones -- the "iPhone 7s" and "7s Plus" which retain the design and features of the iPhone 7 family.

boredumb

Apple should really apologize for this...
/s

williamh

I take exception to the use of the word "rapacious".  Apple (and Samsung) are not being aggressively greedy or covetous.  They're just making the things people want to buy.  This may surprise the author, but no other companies really need 100 million of any component. It's not like HTC would sell 100 million phones if only they had the parts.

MacPro

boredumb said:

Apple should really apologize for this...
/s

I know, it's really upsetting.  

Mike Wuerthele

williamh said:

I take exception to the use of the word "rapacious".  Apple (and Samsung) are not being aggressively greedy or covetous.  They're just making the things people want to buy.  This may surprise the author, but no other companies really need 100 million of any component. It's not like HTC would sell 100 million phones if only they had the parts.

I'm sticking with my word, but thanks for the input!

gmgravytrain

Apple is being said to have a rapacious demand for components and yet it's generally agreed by Wall Street that Apple doesn't sell nearly enough iPhones to grow market share. Relative viewpoints are so different. I honestly don't think rapacious is the correct term in this case. I would think that term would be a better fit if used for the entire Android OS smartphone platform.

yellowjackets

gmgravytrain said:

Apple is being said to have a rapacious demand for components and yet it's generally agreed by Wall Street that Apple doesn't sell nearly enough iPhones to grow market share. Relative viewpoints are so different. I honestly don't think rapacious is the correct term in this case. I would think that term would be a better fit if used for the entire Android OS smartphone platform.

Huh? It is objective statistics that point out that smartphone market share in developed markets have settled into consistent marketshare percentages between Android and iOS - within fluctuations that occur within the standard deviation in any given quarter - and that Android dominates marketshare in developing markets due to local manufacturers making very cheap devices. Do you wish for Wall Street to ignore factual numbers? If so, why?

Also, you can't blame this on "the entire Android OS smartphone platform" because it isn't the entire Android platform that are causing these shortages. The cheaper Android smartphones use 2-3 year old SOCs, cheap screens/cameras/RAM of which there is an abundance. There are a ton of companies that either make or have sitting around in their inventory very cheap parts that will go in devices that will break down in 2 years or less, and quite frankly the manufacturers of these devices expect them to, because their business model is to sell as many of these low margin devices as possible to generate a profit. There is no money in charging $100 for a device that cost $90 to build and ship that will last 5 years. You want them to buy a new $100 device every 18-24 months. So Apple has no effect on these companies because Apple devices don't use cheap components meant for devices that are built to break down soon in the first place.

It is the high quality components - the fast efficient SOCs on the latest process, the high speed RAMs, the best AMOLED screens (that Apple is now using) especially if they are curved, the top camera components - for whom there is a crunch. In the past, it was not that big a deal because the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy phones were so different, there really wasn't much competition for the same parts. Now that the iPhones will also have AMOLED screens that are bigger than 4', wireless charging, and a ton of other features that were previously only in the Samsung Galaxy, that creates the crunch. Samsung and Apple will get all the parts - as they are the 2 biggest sellers of premium devices - meaning that LG, HTC, Motorola, Sony and Huawei - who sell far fewer premium devices, will be negatively impacted. So is the trend towards more RAM and more storage. We have gone from 1 GB of RAM and 8 GB of storage being essentially standard for most phones to 6 GB of RAM and 64 GB of storage being the new standard for premium Android phones, and Apple increasing the RAM and storage configurations in their devices too. And yes, the dual camera thing means twice as many cameras for the same amount of phones. Well not really ... I would imagine that only the front shooters have dual cameras and the rear ones still have single ones, but it creates a crunch just the same. Especially since making components isn't the most lucrative thing in the world, so there is no huge financial payoff in ramping up production to meet this demand. They are going to ramp it up slowly in a way that increasing production won't drive them out of business.

Which means that Apple's making the iPhone more like the Galaxy won't really hurt Samsung - because they can make their own components and are no worse than 2nd in line for everyone else's - but will be absolutely devastating for everyone else that is trying to sell a phone that costs more than $450, especially if you are one of the companies - like Motorola, Asus, OnePlus and Xiaomi - whose business model is selling the same device that Apple and Samsung sells for $600 for $450 because you are sacrificing margin in favor of trying to grow market share.

anantksundaram

It's "rapacious" consumer demand. I.e., us.

Apple and Samsung are merely responding.

melgross

The one thing interesting about all this is whether Apple succeeded in making the Touch ID sensor on the front or back. It seems as though it's on the front. Where, we don't know, because while we've got all these supposed case parts, we don't know which, if any, are correct. Is this a real full frontal screen, or is there a bottom chin, though narrower, and a brow on the top, but narrower, or not? If it's a full faced screen, then getting that sensor to work from behind the screen was a major effort, and a tough technological challenge. Samsung failed at it this year, and made no attempt to have a back up solution, so we have that poorly placed sensor on the rear, next to the camera.

if there's a narrow chin, then it's easier, though Samsung couldn't do it with their chin.

gatorguy

melgross said:

The one thing interesting about all this is whether Apple succeeded in making the Touch ID sensor on the front or back. It seems as though it's on the front. Where, we don't know, because while we've got all these supposed case parts, we don't know which, if any, are correct. Is this a real full frontal screen, or is there a bottom chin, though narrower, and a brow on the top, but narrower, or not? If it's a full faced screen, then getting that sensor to work from behind the screen was a major effort, and a tough technological challenge. Samsung failed at it this year, and made no attempt to have a back up solution, so we have that poorly placed sensor on the rear, next to the camera.

if there's a narrow chin, then it's easier, though Samsung couldn't do it with their chin.

Well Samsung might not have failed. Seems they'll be launching the Galaxy Note 8 in August which still could have the under-screen fingerprint sensor they have been planning. In another month the rumors should tell us since Sammy has been prone to "leak" their own secret features well in advance of release. Yes, Apple may "leak" a few features too but not nearly as bad as Samsung who will let slip just about anything you want to know about the next Galaxy Note.

williamh

gatorguy said:

melgross said:

The one thing interesting about all this is whether Apple succeeded in making the Touch ID sensor on the front or back. It seems as though it's on the front. Where, we don't know, because while we've got all these supposed case parts, we don't know which, if any, are correct. Is this a real full frontal screen, or is there a bottom chin, though narrower, and a brow on the top, but narrower, or not? If it's a full faced screen, then getting that sensor to work from behind the screen was a major effort, and a tough technological challenge. Samsung failed at it this year, and made no attempt to have a back up solution, so we have that poorly placed sensor on the rear, next to the camera.

if there's a narrow chin, then it's easier, though Samsung couldn't do it with their chin.

Well Samsung might not have failed. Seems they'll be launching the Galaxy Note 8 in August which still could have the under-screen fingerprint sensor they have been planning. In another month the rumors should tell us since Sammy has been prone to "leak" their own secret features well in advance of release. Yes, Apple may "leak" a few features too but not nearly as bad as Samsung who will let slip just about anything you want to know about the next Galaxy Note.

What I want to know about the Galaxy Note: will it blend?

muthuk_vanalingam

gatorguy said:

melgross said:

The one thing interesting about all this is whether Apple succeeded in making the Touch ID sensor on the front or back. It seems as though it's on the front. Where, we don't know, because while we've got all these supposed case parts, we don't know which, if any, are correct. Is this a real full frontal screen, or is there a bottom chin, though narrower, and a brow on the top, but narrower, or not? If it's a full faced screen, then getting that sensor to work from behind the screen was a major effort, and a tough technological challenge. Samsung failed at it this year, and made no attempt to have a back up solution, so we have that poorly placed sensor on the rear, next to the camera.

if there's a narrow chin, then it's easier, though Samsung couldn't do it with their chin.

Well Samsung might not have failed. Seems they'll be launching the Galaxy Note 8 in August which still could have the under-screen fingerprint sensor they have been planning. In another month the rumors should tell us since Sammy has been prone to "leak" their own secret features well in advance of release. Yes, Apple may "leak" a few features too but not nearly as bad as Samsung who will let slip just about anything you want to know about the next Galaxy Note.

The rumors about Samsung Note 8 mostly point towards Samsung failing to implement FPS below the screen and that FPS will be on the back (just at the right position this time, unlike the S series).

melgross

gatorguy said:

melgross said:

The one thing interesting about all this is whether Apple succeeded in making the Touch ID sensor on the front or back. It seems as though it's on the front. Where, we don't know, because while we've got all these supposed case parts, we don't know which, if any, are correct. Is this a real full frontal screen, or is there a bottom chin, though narrower, and a brow on the top, but narrower, or not? If it's a full faced screen, then getting that sensor to work from behind the screen was a major effort, and a tough technological challenge. Samsung failed at it this year, and made no attempt to have a back up solution, so we have that poorly placed sensor on the rear, next to the camera.

if there's a narrow chin, then it's easier, though Samsung couldn't do it with their chin.

Well Samsung might not have failed. Seems they'll be launching the Galaxy Note 8 in August which still could have the under-screen fingerprint sensor they have been planning. In another month the rumors should tell us since Sammy has been prone to "leak" their own secret features well in advance of release. Yes, Apple may "leak" a few features too but not nearly as bad as Samsung who will let slip just about anything you want to know about the next Galaxy Note.

They did fail, the S8 has that funky button in the worst possible spot, because they had no room anywhere else. Because they failed. That's their most popular flagship series. If they do come out with a Note, it's months later, and doesn't sell in anywhere as high a number.

even if they manage to get it right in a later model doesn't mean that they didn't fail. I don't know why you give everyone, other than Apple, a pass for these things.

and...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/samsung-galaxy-note-8-news/

So, they might have failed again.

I don't know why they just won't put it below the screen. There's room there, particularly since their button is elongated, and so takes up less height. I guess they want to get rid of the button on the front altogether. But it's a bad reason.

edit: ah, I just realized that with that narrow bottom chin the jack is right there, and possibly they can't get a button on top of it. Poorly thought out.

tmay

gatorguy said:

melgross said:

The one thing interesting about all this is whether Apple succeeded in making the Touch ID sensor on the front or back. It seems as though it's on the front. Where, we don't know, because while we've got all these supposed case parts, we don't know which, if any, are correct. Is this a real full frontal screen, or is there a bottom chin, though narrower, and a brow on the top, but narrower, or not? If it's a full faced screen, then getting that sensor to work from behind the screen was a major effort, and a tough technological challenge. Samsung failed at it this year, and made no attempt to have a back up solution, so we have that poorly placed sensor on the rear, next to the camera.

if there's a narrow chin, then it's easier, though Samsung couldn't do it with their chin.

Well Samsung might not have failed. Seems they'll be launching the Galaxy Note 8 in August which still could have the under-screen fingerprint sensor they have been planning. In another month the rumors should tell us since Sammy has been prone to "leak" their own secret features well in advance of release. Yes, Apple may "leak" a few features too but not nearly as bad as Samsung who will let slip just about anything you want to know about the next Galaxy Note.

The failure was having the one time, interim workaround to a touch ID sensor under screen be a touch ID sensor on the back, which is ergonomically a poor solution, coupled with an inherently less secure 3D facial scan as an alternative. 

Samsung would certainly be deemed successful with the Galaxy Note 8 if the touch ID sensor is under the screen, but that is unknown to date. It would be a failure as well, in my opinion, if it need not meet or exceed the performance of the previous touch ID sensor on the chin.

gatorguy

melgross said:

gatorguy said:

melgross said:

The one thing interesting about all this is whether Apple succeeded in making the Touch ID sensor on the front or back. It seems as though it's on the front. Where, we don't know, because while we've got all these supposed case parts, we don't know which, if any, are correct. Is this a real full frontal screen, or is there a bottom chin, though narrower, and a brow on the top, but narrower, or not? If it's a full faced screen, then getting that sensor to work from behind the screen was a major effort, and a tough technological challenge. Samsung failed at it this year, and made no attempt to have a back up solution, so we have that poorly placed sensor on the rear, next to the camera.

if there's a narrow chin, then it's easier, though Samsung couldn't do it with their chin.

Well Samsung might not have failed. Seems they'll be launching the Galaxy Note 8 in August which still could have the under-screen fingerprint sensor they have been planning. In another month the rumors should tell us since Sammy has been prone to "leak" their own secret features well in advance of release. Yes, Apple may "leak" a few features too but not nearly as bad as Samsung who will let slip just about anything you want to know about the next Galaxy Note.

They did fail, the S8 has that funky button in the worst possible spot, because they had no room anywhere else. Because they failed. That's their most popular flagship series. If they do come out with a Note, it's months later, and doesn't sell in anywhere as high a number.

even if they manage to get it right in a later model doesn't mean that they didn't fail. I don't know why you give everyone, other than Apple, a pass for these things.

What the heck are you going on about? Mel said "failed at it this year". Read for context. 

avon b7

On all current phones, there is nothing wrong, ergonomically or otherwise, with rear placed FPS when compared with front facing scanners. It is all preference based on use habits.

Just as with front facing implementations, there are sweet spots but it all boils down to taste and how you use the device.

An underscreen sensor centred just below the halfway point down on the screen would be a nice new addition to current options.

Currently, the rear mounted, recessed, centred scanner is my favourite option. Followed quickly by scanner gestures.

melgross

avon b7 said:

On all current phones, there is nothing wrong, ergonomically or otherwise, with rear placed FPS when compared with front facing scanners. It is all preference based on use habits.

Just as with front facing implementations, there are sweet spots but it all boils down to taste and how you use the device.

An underscreen sensor centred just below the halfway point down on the screen would be a nice new addition to current options.

Currently, the rear mounted, recessed, centred scanner is my favourite option. Followed quickly by scanner gestures.

It's been mentioned in every review of several Android phones that have the scanner in the back about how inconvenient that is. First, you have to fish around with your finger, because most people's hands don't place their finger tip right on top of that sensor. That's a hassle. Secondly, most people, in fishing around, put fingerprints on the camera lens, right above the sensor. And thirdly, you have to pick the phone up, if it's laying on a surface, to get to the sensor, rather than just lightly laying your finger on it.

all reasons why a rear mounted sensor is a poor choice. Samsungs error was in thinking they would solve the problem before manufacturing begun, so they designed the phone with the assumption the sensor would be where they wanted it to be. When they failed to get that working, they apparently saw that due to the design, they couldn't put it below the screen, on that narrow chin, and so it had to go on the rear.

but, since they assumed it would go under the screen, they made no provision in the design for backup placing. There is no room below the camera, and the only spot was beside the camera. So they placed it there, which, according to reviews, is one of the worst places for it. But they had to include it.

im just hoping that Apple has solved this problem.

gatorguy

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

On all current phones, there is nothing wrong, ergonomically or otherwise, with rear placed FPS when compared with front facing scanners. It is all preference based on use habits.

Just as with front facing implementations, there are sweet spots but it all boils down to taste and how you use the device.

An underscreen sensor centred just below the halfway point down on the screen would be a nice new addition to current options.

Currently, the rear mounted, recessed, centred scanner is my favourite option. Followed quickly by scanner gestures.

It's been mentioned in every review of several Android phones that have the scanner in the back about how inconvenient that is. First, you have to fish around with your finger, because most people's hands don't place their finger tip right on top of that sensor. That's a hassle. Secondly, most people, in fishing around, put fingerprints on the camera lens, right above the sensor. And thirdly, you have to pick the phone up, if it's laying on a surface, to get to the sensor, rather than just lightly laying your finger on it.

all reasons why a rear mounted sensor is a poor choice.

http://pocketnow.com/2017/03/25/fingerprint-sensor-back-or-front

FWIW some Android phones have fingerprints sensors on the front, others on the back, and some even on the side. With a good sensor I personally think it doesn't matter all that much, it's simply personal preference. For myself I prefer one properly designed for the back. As you mentioned Samsung's placement this year is less than ideal, brought on by Synaptics failure to deliver as promised. 

avon b7

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

On all current phones, there is nothing wrong, ergonomically or otherwise, with rear placed FPS when compared with front facing scanners. It is all preference based on use habits.

Just as with front facing implementations, there are sweet spots but it all boils down to taste and how you use the device.

An underscreen sensor centred just below the halfway point down on the screen would be a nice new addition to current options.

Currently, the rear mounted, recessed, centred scanner is my favourite option. Followed quickly by scanner gestures.

It's been mentioned in every review of several Android phones that have the scanner in the back about how inconvenient that is. First, you have to fish around with your finger, because most people's hands don't place their finger tip right on top of that sensor. That's a hassle. Secondly, most people, in fishing around, put fingerprints on the camera lens, right above the sensor. And thirdly, you have to pick the phone up, if it's laying on a surface, to get to the sensor, rather than just lightly laying your finger on it.

all reasons why a rear mounted sensor is a poor choice. Samsungs error was in thinking they would solve the problem before manufacturing begun, so they designed the phone with the assumption the sensor would be where they wanted it to be. When they failed to get that working, they apparently saw that due to the design, they couldn't put it below the screen, on that narrow chin, and so it had to go on the rear.

but, since they assumed it would go under the screen, they made no provision in the design for backup placing. There is no room below the camera, and the only spot was beside the camera. So they placed it there, which, according to reviews, is one of the worst places for it. But they had to include it.

im just hoping that Apple has solved this problem.

Every review? You didn't drop any names but this was from the first review I checked:

"The fingerprint reader is at the rear (our favourite, convenient location) and is very quick at unlocking the phone"

https://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/huawei/mate-9/613844/

Reviewers have opinions and that's all they are. If rear placed sensors were such a bad idea they would have been long gone by now.

The reality is that new phones get released with front or rear sensors as there are people that prefer them in one place or another.

The sensor on my current phone is rear centred, recessed and below the camera. I never ever hit the camera. Ever. Nine times out of ten I hit the sensor straight on. In fact it would be awkward to hit the camera lens. It's like hitting light switches in the dark in your home. You know where they are even in the dark. The times I don't hit it on first attempt I slide my index finger into the recess. It's worth noting that I have the habit of wiping the lens with my shirt before taking photos anyway but because of other gunk that might be on the lens cover, not skin oils.

The having to 'pick the phone up' to unlock isn't an issue. If all you want to do is activate the screen (to see the time or check if you have a notification etc) you have double tap options or the dedicated side buttons which will do that for you with the same or less effort of using the sensor. If you really want to unlock to do something, scroll through screens, read notifications etc, then why wouldn't you want to hold the phone anyway? It will give you the perfect angle for reading what's on the screen and is completely effortless. If the phone is mounted (for something like navigation in the car), then the screen would almost always be on anyway.

There are many reasons why you might prefer a front or rear placed sensor but overwhelmingly it boils down to simple personal preference.

melgross

gatorguy said:

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

On all current phones, there is nothing wrong, ergonomically or otherwise, with rear placed FPS when compared with front facing scanners. It is all preference based on use habits.

Just as with front facing implementations, there are sweet spots but it all boils down to taste and how you use the device.

An underscreen sensor centred just below the halfway point down on the screen would be a nice new addition to current options.

Currently, the rear mounted, recessed, centred scanner is my favourite option. Followed quickly by scanner gestures.

It's been mentioned in every review of several Android phones that have the scanner in the back about how inconvenient that is. First, you have to fish around with your finger, because most people's hands don't place their finger tip right on top of that sensor. That's a hassle. Secondly, most people, in fishing around, put fingerprints on the camera lens, right above the sensor. And thirdly, you have to pick the phone up, if it's laying on a surface, to get to the sensor, rather than just lightly laying your finger on it.

all reasons why a rear mounted sensor is a poor choice.

http://pocketnow.com/2017/03/25/fingerprint-sensor-back-or-front

FWIW some Android phones have fingerprints sensors on the front, others on the back, and some even on the side. With a good sensor I personally think it doesn't matter all that much, it's simply personal preference. For myself I prefer one properly designed for the back. As you mentioned Samsung's placement this year is less than ideal, brought on by Synaptics failure to deliver as promised. 

Don't blame Synaptics. You can be sure that Samsung has their fingers, ahem, all over that design, both in software, and hardware. Is just as much their fault as Synaptics. And it's more, because of their apparent assumption of "What can go wrong?", and so failing to have a backup plan.

its generally agreed that a sensor on the back is a BAD THING, even if a few people claim that they like it.

melgross

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

On all current phones, there is nothing wrong, ergonomically or otherwise, with rear placed FPS when compared with front facing scanners. It is all preference based on use habits.

Just as with front facing implementations, there are sweet spots but it all boils down to taste and how you use the device.

An underscreen sensor centred just below the halfway point down on the screen would be a nice new addition to current options.

Currently, the rear mounted, recessed, centred scanner is my favourite option. Followed quickly by scanner gestures.

It's been mentioned in every review of several Android phones that have the scanner in the back about how inconvenient that is. First, you have to fish around with your finger, because most people's hands don't place their finger tip right on top of that sensor. That's a hassle. Secondly, most people, in fishing around, put fingerprints on the camera lens, right above the sensor. And thirdly, you have to pick the phone up, if it's laying on a surface, to get to the sensor, rather than just lightly laying your finger on it.

all reasons why a rear mounted sensor is a poor choice. Samsungs error was in thinking they would solve the problem before manufacturing begun, so they designed the phone with the assumption the sensor would be where they wanted it to be. When they failed to get that working, they apparently saw that due to the design, they couldn't put it below the screen, on that narrow chin, and so it had to go on the rear.

but, since they assumed it would go under the screen, they made no provision in the design for backup placing. There is no room below the camera, and the only spot was beside the camera. So they placed it there, which, according to reviews, is one of the worst places for it. But they had to include it.

im just hoping that Apple has solved this problem.

Every review? You didn't drop any names but this was from the first review I checked:

"The fingerprint reader is at the rear (our favourite, convenient location) and is very quick at unlocking the phone"

https://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/huawei/mate-9/613844/

Reviewers have opinions and that's all they are. If rear placed sensors were such a bad idea they would have been long gone by now.

The reality is that new phones get released with front or rear sensors as there are people that prefer them in one place or another.

The sensor on my current phone is rear centred, recessed and below the camera. I never ever hit the camera. Ever. Nine times out of ten I hit the sensor straight on. In fact it would be awkward to hit the camera lens. It's like hitting light switches in the dark in your home. You know where they are even in the dark. The times I don't hit it on first attempt I slide my index finger into the recess. It's worth noting that I have the habit of wiping the lens with my shirt before taking photos anyway but because of other gunk that might be on the lens cover, not skin oils.

The having to 'pick the phone up' to unlock isn't an issue. If all you want to do is activate the screen (to see the time or check if you have a notification etc) you have double tap options or the dedicated side buttons which will do that for you with the same or less effort of using the sensor. If you really want to unlock to do something, scroll through screens, read notifications etc, then why wouldn't you want to hold the phone anyway? It will give you the perfect angle for reading what's on the screen and is completely effortless. If the phone is mounted (for something like navigation in the car), then the screen would almost always be on anyway.

There are many reasons why you might prefer a front or rear placed sensor but overwhelmingly it boils down to simple personal preference.

Well, admittedly, I hadn't seen that one. But all the others I've seen have said that it wasn't good. The best I've seen was that for a sensor on the rear, this was well placed.