EU hammers Google with record $2.7 billion antitrust fine for illegal search manipulation

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  • Reply 21 of 150
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    You could not be more wrong. Google has a virtual monopoly of search (>80%) so they have to play fairly. Promoting their own products and services above those of a competitor is an abuse of that market.  That gives a freer and more equal market than otherwise.

    Google has a large share of search because people are lazy and not well informed. That doesn't make them a monopoly. Plus, idiots voluntarily choose to buy cheap Android phones instead of Apple, so they are 100% responsible for contributing to the fortunes of Google.

    This is just the same old EU blackmailing tactics they've pulled on Apple, Microsoft and others.
    edited June 2017 bshankanton zuykov
  • Reply 22 of 150
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 6member
    More evidence the EU is composed of incapable children. Google doesn't have a monopoly, you European twits. Ever heard of DuckDuckGo, for cryin' out loud? Are you people remotely capable of figuring this out? Wow.
    Monopoly doesn't mean that you are the only on the marked Google does have a significant market power and dominates the market. Yes you have DuckDuckGo or Bing, but their market share is marginal.
    So apparently they aren't so incapable. also they don't speak about monopoly but market domination.

    sphericpropodSpamSandwich
  • Reply 23 of 150
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    Uh, that's actually the point of the ruling: Google was intentionally subverting competition by giving their own shopping links the priority within a general search. 
    williamlondonavon b7lostkiwi
  • Reply 24 of 150
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    Free market = predatory capitaism with help from lawmakers who in turn fund their campaigns for re-election. 
    williamlondonlostkiwi
  • Reply 25 of 150
    bshankbshank Posts: 256member
    gatorguy said:
    They won't be allowed to put Google Shopping at the top of the results page, which I'm sure was an effort to address eBay and Amazon product searches. Understandable Google would wish to do so, but also understandable that it could be seen as affecting competitors unfairly. If Google Search wasn't as good as it is, reportedly over 90% share in the EU (really??!), this would have probably passed muster IMO but the success of Google Search means they just can't do some of the some things a smaller competitor might get by with.

    While personally a $2B+ fine for favoring (I've seen zero evidence they were blocking anyone else despite Ms. Vestager's comments) seems just a tad excessive considering the goal is to force them to change the way they present product search results which the ruling itself does, it is what it is. The EU Commission is convinced they hold sway over companies no matter where they do business as long as some of that business is in Europe. (I'll have to do some reading to see how that came about as it seems very odd to me.) Google can well afford to pay it, and it doesn't have anything to do with general Google Search results as far as I've read so that should not be affected. But Google competitors do seem to have Ms. Vesteger's ear so this is just the first shoe to drop. 

    Anyway, if anyone is curious how Google displays Google Shopping and how it can be seen as anti-competitive do a search for some product, perhaps a toaster, and see how Google displays the results. The EU feels the same ranking rules that apply to other shopping sites should also apply to Google's own products, even tho it is their search product that's being used. Once you get to the point of being seen as dominant in your field the EU believes you should play by stricter rules, and in some way I tend to agree. 

    Now is the EU unfairly targeting big US techs? I've not really firmly formed my own opinion on that yet. The quick-take would be... maybe. The EU is still chasing Apple for a few $B, Facebook was fined there in recent months for misleading the EU Commission, Amazon had to change the way they market books there or face fines, and very recently Nike and Comcast also have had new antitrust investigations targeting their practices opened by Ms. Vestager and the EU Commission.

    There's also the so far rarely mentioned look by the EU into possible anticompetitive practices in the Apple App Store and Google Play where Ms. Vestager may try to make many of the same arguments she did in this case.  More fun to come. 
    Amazon is first in my Google search
  • Reply 26 of 150
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member

    More evidence the EU is composed of incapable children. Google doesn't have a monopoly, you European twits. Ever heard of DuckDuckGo, for cryin' out loud? Are you people remotely capable of figuring this out? Wow.
    You are the one that can't "figure this out". Do a little research into monopolies and how destructive they are to competition and society. Advances in science and technology stop when monopoles take over. 
    propodclemynxwilliamlondonavon b7lostkiwi
  • Reply 27 of 150
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Well, folks I'd live to join the "Slam Google" fest, but I have a real problem with an outfit that acts as judge, jury and then – a few months later – appeals judge and jury. Where's the fairness in that?

    And now they've hit Google for 2bill, then  I guarantee that they'll be looking to apply the same rule to Apple, even though Apple is not the dominant force in the smartphone market. 

    Okay, now where was I?… Oh yeah… HA! TAKE THAT, GOOGLE!


    edited June 2017 bshankpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 150
    Don't be surprised if EU goes after Apple next for not allowing other App Stores as being anti-competitive. 
  • Reply 29 of 150
    bellsbells Posts: 140member
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    Google is a monopoly in Europe. It is classic anti-trust Law that you can't use your monopoly position to gain an unfair advantage in new markets.

    Google is doing that by favoring its own businesses in its search rankings. Pretty straightforward anti-trust violation. 
    williamlondonsphericwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 150
    BenCBenC Posts: 13member
    bshank said:
    gatorguy said:
    They won't be allowed to put Google Shopping at the top of the results page, which I'm sure was an effort to address eBay and Amazon product searches. Understandable Google would wish to do so, but also understandable that it could be seen as affecting competitors unfairly. If Google Search wasn't as good as it is, reportedly over 90% share in the EU (really??!), this would have probably passed muster IMO but the success of Google Search means they just can't do some of the some things a smaller competitor might get by with.

    While personally a $2B+ fine for favoring (I've seen zero evidence they were blocking anyone else despite Ms. Vestager's comments) seems just a tad excessive considering the goal is to force them to change the way they present product search results which the ruling itself does, it is what it is. The EU Commission is convinced they hold sway over companies no matter where they do business as long as some of that business is in Europe. (I'll have to do some reading to see how that came about as it seems very odd to me.) Google can well afford to pay it, and it doesn't have anything to do with general Google Search results as far as I've read so that should not be affected. But Google competitors do seem to have Ms. Vesteger's ear so this is just the first shoe to drop. 

    Anyway, if anyone is curious how Google displays Google Shopping and how it can be seen as anti-competitive do a search for some product, perhaps a toaster, and see how Google displays the results. The EU feels the same ranking rules that apply to other shopping sites should also apply to Google's own products, even tho it is their search product that's being used. Once you get to the point of being seen as dominant in your field the EU believes you should play by stricter rules, and in some way I tend to agree. 

    Now is the EU unfairly targeting big US techs? I've not really firmly formed my own opinion on that yet. The quick-take would be... maybe. The EU is still chasing Apple for a few $B, Facebook was fined there in recent months for misleading the EU Commission, Amazon had to change the way they market books there or face fines, and very recently Nike and Comcast also have had new antitrust investigations targeting their practices opened by Ms. Vestager and the EU Commission.

    There's also the so far rarely mentioned look by the EU into possible anticompetitive practices in the Apple App Store and Google Play where Ms. Vestager may try to make many of the same arguments she did in this case.  More fun to come. 
    Amazon is first in my Google search
    See that word 'Sponsored' in the top right hand corner? Those are paid ads you are looking at. The EU's point is that this comparison shopping service (i.e., that whole box of product photos, links and prices) is given unfair prominence over other comparison shopping services in Google's results.

    Whether you think that is fair or unfair is a matter of opinion. The EU is saying that under their rules it is illegal. Perhaps in the USA it is not illegal. No problem. Google is quite capable of (and indeed is obliged to) adjusting its product to reflect the regulations of the markets in which it chooses to operate.
    lostkiwisphericmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 150
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    Nonsense. This decision is precisely defending European consumers. Nothing elite about it. Quit defending megacorporations instead of actual consumers. 
    singularitypropodwilliamlondonlostkiwisphericwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 150
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    More evidence the EU is composed of incapable children. Google doesn't have a monopoly, you European twits. Ever heard of DuckDuckGo, for cryin' out loud? Are you people remotely capable of figuring this out? Wow.
    This ruling has nothing to do with a monopoly. 
    edited June 2017 propodwilliamlondonavon b7lostkiwimagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 150
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    You could not be more wrong. Google has a virtual monopoly of search (>80%) so they have to play fairly. Promoting their own products and services above those of a competitor is an abuse of that market.  That gives a freer and more equal market than otherwise.

    Google has a large share of search because people are lazy and not well informed. That doesn't make them a monopoly. Plus, idiots voluntarily choose to buy cheap Android phones instead of Apple, so they are 100% responsible for contributing to the fortunes of Google.

    This is just the same old EU blackmailing tactics they've pulled on Apple, Microsoft and others.
    It's just a matter of perspective. 

    You think that the American dream is real and that customers have a choice. I think you are naive, that the American dream has been shown to be a lie, that the US are a big scam, that consumers only have the illusion of a choice and that big companies prey on their consumers. 
    propodwilliamlondonavon b7lostkiwispheric
  • Reply 34 of 150
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    Uh, that's actually the point of the ruling: Google was intentionally subverting competition by giving their own shopping links the priority within a general search. 
    That's a completely irrational conclusion to reach when there are numerous search engines available. This is about extorting Google.
    williamlondonanton zuykovpscooter63ike17055
  • Reply 35 of 150
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    clemynx said:
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    You could not be more wrong. Google has a virtual monopoly of search (>80%) so they have to play fairly. Promoting their own products and services above those of a competitor is an abuse of that market.  That gives a freer and more equal market than otherwise.

    Google has a large share of search because people are lazy and not well informed. That doesn't make them a monopoly. Plus, idiots voluntarily choose to buy cheap Android phones instead of Apple, so they are 100% responsible for contributing to the fortunes of Google.

    This is just the same old EU blackmailing tactics they've pulled on Apple, Microsoft and others.
    It's just a matter of perspective. 

    You think that the American dream is real and that customers have a choice. I think you are naive, that the American dream has been shown to be a lie, that the US are a big scam, that consumers only have the illusion of a choice and that big companies prey on their consumers. 
    All complete hogwash. No one is forced to buy or use any of the services in question here.

    Incapable EU politicians are poison to free markets.
    edited June 2017 williamlondonbshankanton zuykov
  • Reply 36 of 150
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,388member
    bells said:
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    Google is a monopoly in Europe
    Not according to the EU.
  • Reply 37 of 150
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    clemynx said:
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    You could not be more wrong. Google has a virtual monopoly of search (>80%) so they have to play fairly. Promoting their own products and services above those of a competitor is an abuse of that market.  That gives a freer and more equal market than otherwise.

    Google has a large share of search because people are lazy and not well informed. That doesn't make them a monopoly. Plus, idiots voluntarily choose to buy cheap Android phones instead of Apple, so they are 100% responsible for contributing to the fortunes of Google.

    This is just the same old EU blackmailing tactics they've pulled on Apple, Microsoft and others.
    It's just a matter of perspective. 

    You think that the American dream is real and that customers have a choice. I think you are naive, that the American dream has been shown to be a lie, that the US are a big scam, that consumers only have the illusion of a choice and that big companies prey on their consumers. 
    All complete hogwash. No one is forced to buy or use any of the services in question here.

    Incapable EU politicians are poison to free markets.
    And here you prove that you do not get this at all. 
    This is not about end consumers. It's about competing companies that want to appear in search results and can't compete with Google Shopping's prominent placement. 
    edited June 2017 lostkiwisphericwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 150
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    clemynx said:
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    Nonsense. This decision is precisely defending European consumers. Nothing elite about it. Quit defending megacorporations instead of actual consumers. 
    And the US should defend US companies from unfair EU fines.  We need to curbstomp the EU and maybe they will stop targeting US companies with these excessive fines.  It's a blatant money grab.

    Brussels wants us to not protect our steel industry from Chinese dumping because it might hurt them (this after imposing their own 73% tariffs on Chinese steel) and threatens us with "retaliation" if we do but hits US companies with huge fines based on worldwide earnings at the same time.  Fuck them.  Hit Europe as hard as possible with steel tariffs but let UK steel in.  Frankly if the EU want to sell us anything they can go through the UK.  That'll make them understand not to be total douches during Brexit.

    Let them try their "nuclear option".
    SpamSandwichbshankike17055
  • Reply 39 of 150
    bshankbshank Posts: 256member
    BenC said:
    bshank said:
    gatorguy said:
    They won't be allowed to put Google Shopping at the top of the results page, which I'm sure was an effort to address eBay and Amazon product searches. Understandable Google would wish to do so, but also understandable that it could be seen as affecting competitors unfairly. If Google Search wasn't as good as it is, reportedly over 90% share in the EU (really??!), this would have probably passed muster IMO but the success of Google Search means they just can't do some of the some things a smaller competitor might get by with.

    While personally a $2B+ fine for favoring (I've seen zero evidence they were blocking anyone else despite Ms. Vestager's comments) seems just a tad excessive considering the goal is to force them to change the way they present product search results which the ruling itself does, it is what it is. The EU Commission is convinced they hold sway over companies no matter where they do business as long as some of that business is in Europe. (I'll have to do some reading to see how that came about as it seems very odd to me.) Google can well afford to pay it, and it doesn't have anything to do with general Google Search results as far as I've read so that should not be affected. But Google competitors do seem to have Ms. Vesteger's ear so this is just the first shoe to drop. 

    Anyway, if anyone is curious how Google displays Google Shopping and how it can be seen as anti-competitive do a search for some product, perhaps a toaster, and see how Google displays the results. The EU feels the same ranking rules that apply to other shopping sites should also apply to Google's own products, even tho it is their search product that's being used. Once you get to the point of being seen as dominant in your field the EU believes you should play by stricter rules, and in some way I tend to agree. 

    Now is the EU unfairly targeting big US techs? I've not really firmly formed my own opinion on that yet. The quick-take would be... maybe. The EU is still chasing Apple for a few $B, Facebook was fined there in recent months for misleading the EU Commission, Amazon had to change the way they market books there or face fines, and very recently Nike and Comcast also have had new antitrust investigations targeting their practices opened by Ms. Vestager and the EU Commission.

    There's also the so far rarely mentioned look by the EU into possible anticompetitive practices in the Apple App Store and Google Play where Ms. Vestager may try to make many of the same arguments she did in this case.  More fun to come. 
    Amazon is first in my Google search
    See that word 'Sponsored' in the top right hand corner? Those are paid ads you are looking at. The EU's point is that this comparison shopping service (i.e., that whole box of product photos, links and prices) is given unfair prominence over other comparison shopping services in Google's results.

    Whether you think that is fair or unfair is a matter of opinion. The EU is saying that under their rules it is illegal. Perhaps in the USA it is not illegal. No problem. Google is quite capable of (and indeed is obliged to) adjusting its product to reflect the regulations of the markets in which it chooses to operate.
    The ones under the paid ads are also not Google. They are Amazon. As for the 'Sponsored' ones, this is Google's website and they can charge people to place an ad. You think that they should give away ads for free?  Why don't you build a website, spend billions of your own dollars, and let us put whatever we want on it for no charge?  Google has also been doing this since the beginning. It was OK when they were smaller, but now that they're bigger it's not OK?! I'm worried about you guys over there 
    edited June 2017 williamlondonanton zuykov
  • Reply 40 of 150
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    clemynx said:
    clemynx said:
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    You could not be more wrong. Google has a virtual monopoly of search (>80%) so they have to play fairly. Promoting their own products and services above those of a competitor is an abuse of that market.  That gives a freer and more equal market than otherwise.

    Google has a large share of search because people are lazy and not well informed. That doesn't make them a monopoly. Plus, idiots voluntarily choose to buy cheap Android phones instead of Apple, so they are 100% responsible for contributing to the fortunes of Google.

    This is just the same old EU blackmailing tactics they've pulled on Apple, Microsoft and others.
    It's just a matter of perspective. 

    You think that the American dream is real and that customers have a choice. I think you are naive, that the American dream has been shown to be a lie, that the US are a big scam, that consumers only have the illusion of a choice and that big companies prey on their consumers. 
    All complete hogwash. No one is forced to buy or use any of the services in question here.

    Incapable EU politicians are poison to free markets.
    And here you prove that you do not get this at all. 
    This is not about end consumers. It's about competing companies that want to appear in search results and can't compete with Google Shopping's prominent placement. 
    Look, I know you're downvoting my replies. It still doesn't help your position.
    bshankwilliamlondonpscooter63
This discussion has been closed.