EU hammers Google with record $2.7 billion antitrust fine for illegal search manipulation

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  • Reply 141 of 150
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,892member
    nht said:

    avon b7 said:
    nht said:

    It's not hard to understand when you take it in the proper context:

    ""We don't want to become a digital colony of global internet giants," Montebourg said in May. "What's at stake is our sovereignty itself.""

    Döpfner warned: "Voluntary self-subjugation cannot be the last word from the Old World. On the contrary, the desire of the European digital economy to succeed could finally become something for European policy, which the EU has so sorely missed in the past few decades: an emotional narrative."

    The EU (via Juncker, Vestager and Oettinger) has declared war on US tech companies because EU tech companies are uncompetitive without an uneven playing field.  That hurts German and French sensibilities.
    Ehem. The EU hasn't declared war on anyone. It has taken decisions to give itself more homegrown technology and not depend as much on external technology

    That is why it is developing its own processors for initial use in supercomputing, but will further develop them for other uses.

    These are completely logical steps.
    Then we won't be declaring trade war on anyone when we block EU steel sales so as to not depend as much on external sources of steel.

    Give it a rest.  Folks like Montebourg and Döpfner did declare war on US tech companies using such rhetoric as "colonization", "subjugation" and "sovereignty" and pushed Vestager into her slot via Juncker.  If Merkel hadn't shafted Cameron by backing Juncker life would have been much better for everyone.

    EU can go pound sand.  They installed as president the guy who said:
    • We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.
    • "Britain is different. Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?"
    • Monetary policy is a serious issue. We should discuss this in secret, in the Eurogroup [...] I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious [...] I am for secret, dark debates.
    As a direct bitchslap to the UK and then acted all surprised and hurt when Brexit happened.
    I didn't mention blocking, just not depending so much on non-EU technology. Technology is a field that is fast becoming central to all modern economies. That is what the Horizon 2020 project is all about.

    If the US blocks steel imports, the EU will take measures in response to that action. Once again, this is completely logical.
  • Reply 142 of 150
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    ike17055 said:
    foggyhill said:
    ike17055 said:
    wizard69 said:
    This is a prime example of the EU's obsession with successful American companies.    Frankly i think the goverment here in the USA needs to take a more active roll in adressing this harassment.   
    Google's success, and that of others, is in part how we can afford to continue paying the bulk of Europe's defense, while they sneer at us and laugh publicly at American admonishment for Europe's broken financial committment-- to itself. Trump gets a lot wrong, but he is right on this: if Europe wants to complain about how they cannot "depend" on America, perhaps they should stop shortchanging their own responsibilities, and quit always trying to play the U.S. for chumps, and begin to act like allies are supposed to act for once. 
    So, a Trump lie huh, ok, now I know who to ignore.
    Dimwit, the fact is: Trump has pointed out what has been record for years. Europe agreed to meet NATO funding percentages, then ignored the commitments they made, happily relying on the Americans to continue funding an excessive percentage. It is Europe that is the "unreliable partner."  Now it seems, America will reset its committment based on the realities of its own budget needs, and the unwillingness of Europe (again) to sacrifice butter today, for the guns that protect its cuture and freedoms. This time, we will not be bailing you out.  The Russians which to dominate the continent, just as they have for centuries. Now, it seems, they will.  We are more concerned about South Korea and Japan now.  And that actually began under Obama with his "pivot to Asia." 
    Hey, buddy, these were guidelines for a long time in the future, no firm commitment. So, another lie, like your nearly 100% liar president.

    When the democrats kick the Putin manservants from power and go so hard in renewable that oil will be cheaper than water,
    Russian's last gambit will be for naught and their dying industrial base will finally catch up with them.

    BTW, Hope you like the poison your deregulating "daddy" is now allowing in your water as of today; hope you and your children enjoy that wonderful free market damage. Oh, and the EPA's sad sack Pruit just allowed a the spraying of a chemical the EPA's own scientists said caused brain damage in developing infants and wanted banned... But, don't worry the market will "sort this out" and happily provide super duper robots to assist those brain damaged kids (sic).

    And I'm going to get economics "lessons" from you, someone who has seemingly no grasp on reality? Well, no.



    singularity
  • Reply 143 of 150
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    bshank said:
    foggyhill said:
    nht said:
    foggyhill said:
    nht said:
    clemynx said:
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    Nonsense. This decision is precisely defending European consumers. Nothing elite about it. Quit defending megacorporations instead of actual consumers. 
    And the US should defend US companies from unfair EU fines.  We need to curbstomp the EU and maybe they will stop targeting US companies with these excessive fines.  It's a blatant money grab.

    Brussels wants us to not protect our steel industry from Chinese dumping because it might hurt them (this after imposing their own 73% tariffs on Chinese steel) and threatens us with "retaliation" if we do but hits US companies with huge fines based on worldwide earnings at the same time.  Fuck them.  Hit Europe as hard as possible with steel tariffs but let UK steel in.  Frankly if the EU want to sell us anything they can go through the UK.  That'll make them understand not to be total douches during Brexit.

    Let them try their "nuclear option".
    Right... Unfair, you do know they fine their own company just as much hey bud.
    Stating some baseless claims doesn't make it true.
    No, they don't "fine their own company just as much" which is why they call it a "record-breaking fine" as opposed to "the usual wrist-slap fine".

    "Apple ordered to pay a record-breaking €13bn".
    "Google hit with a record €2.4 billion fine".
    "EU issues a record $1.45B fine to Intel".

    So yes, stating some baseless claim doesn't make it true.  The EU hits US companies with huge record breaking fines that aren't levied on EU companies. 
    One is a god damn tax thing, it's as much a snub on Ireland as apple and apple will likely never pay, so get  a clue and stop lying. The fine is proportional to the size of the company, if the company is a smaller company with a non monopolistic position, they get hit less. How the hell is that hard to understand.
    btw, considering the us just levied 2 billion in tarifs annuallly on much smaller Canadian lumber companies as a protectionist measure without proof even (a 10 times higher levy), your whole spiel is laughable.
    It sounds like you don't know the definition of a monopoly. In the 90's Microsoft had Windows and IE pre-installed on PC's forgoing the rest of the options available so that people didn't even know about other options. Google is a website. All 4 search engines are installed in Apple products so people can choose. Not sure how Google holds a "monopoly" unless we're seriously stretching the definition of monopoly
    It is you that have no clue what a monopoly is; the EU know and I do.
  • Reply 144 of 150
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,892member
    nht said:
    clemynx said:
    ike17055 said:
    clemynx said:
    It's just a matter of perspective. 

    You think that the American dream is real and that customers have a choice. I think you are naive, that the American dream has been shown to be a lie, that the US are a big scam, that consumers only have the illusion of a choice and that big companies prey on their consumers. 
    I live the the American dream everyday. The choices we have are truly astounding.the freedoms are incredible, if unfortunately under intense pressure of politicans who want us to be "more like Europe."  You have no clue what you are talking about. 

    More like Europe would be great. Let’s take France : 

    Work 35 hours per week
    5 weeks of paid vacation per year
    Paid medical leave
    Paid maternity leave for 3 months and paternity for 2 weeks
    Paid retirement at 63 
    Free healthcare for all
    Free ambulances 
    College at 600$ per year
    Better trains and public transportation 
    Better food
    Basically it's a paradise compared to the US. 
    Local Purchasing Power in United States is 28.08% higher than in France

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=France&country2=United+States

    Average monthly disposable salary France: 2761, vs US 3,258 (18% more than France)



    http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Cost-of-living

    Better food?  

    Top 50 restaurants lists Eleven Madison Park in NY as the best while Miramar in Menton was #4

    Lets not take France, thanks.

    I'm not sure what you are aiming for with these numbers. They are too wishy washy and the variables make valid comparison virtually impossible.

    As for food, I think that if you look for it you will find it and at the quality levels you seek. This applies to any developed country. Restaurants however, have absolutely no bearing on the level of a country's food.

    Far better to look at how a country eats. I think you will find better general eating habits in France than in the US. Obesity seems to be a major problem in the US when compared to France. I'm sure that proportionally more people prepare their own food from basic ingredients in France than in the US. Heart disease seems to be a major issue in the US while France is historically a good performer in terms of heart disease.

    I have serious reservations about the way chemicals are used in the US, from antibiotics in poultry to pesticides on farms.

    Of course, it could be that all that disposable income gets spent on Coke, Fries and MacBook Pros.
  • Reply 145 of 150
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,892member
    fallenjt said:
    wizard69 said:
    This is a prime example of the EU's obsession with successful American companies.    Frankly i think the goverment here in the USA needs to take a more active roll in adressing this harassment.     In the end that is exactly what it is.   

    By the way iagree with Google, links to other search sites just waste my time.  The last thing we need is crappy service from Google because the EU can't compete.  
    I personally don't like Google but seriously, EU has too much hate toward American companies and trues to rip them by enforcing some antitrust bullshits!
    There is no hate although your president is universally disliked. I think EU fines for US companies are actually a very small proportion of the total and almost all fines are proportional themselves

    Let's not forget that these fines are largely to correct abusive practices, not to impede trade itself. The US will deliberately forbid exports of US produced goods if the result could threaten its own economic activity.

    Sometimes it backfires. Banning the sale Intel Xeons to the Chinese government didn't slow down it's supercomputing aspirations. It released the homegrown SW26010 and went straight to the top of the supercomputing league.
  • Reply 146 of 150
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    For those talking about NATO funding may want to read this 
    http://www.nato.int/cps/ro/natohq/topics_67655.htm
  • Reply 147 of 150
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,626member
    clemynx said:
    clemynx said:
    clemynx said:
    ike17055 said:
    The European elites continue to demonstrate that they have no real understanding of free markets and competition. 
    You could not be more wrong. Google has a virtual monopoly of search (>80%) so they have to play fairly. Promoting their own products and services above those of a competitor is an abuse of that market.  That gives a freer and more equal market than otherwise.

    Google has a large share of search because people are lazy and not well informed. That doesn't make them a monopoly. Plus, idiots voluntarily choose to buy cheap Android phones instead of Apple, so they are 100% responsible for contributing to the fortunes of Google.

    This is just the same old EU blackmailing tactics they've pulled on Apple, Microsoft and others.
    It's just a matter of perspective. 

    You think that the American dream is real and that customers have a choice. I think you are naive, that the American dream has been shown to be a lie, that the US are a big scam, that consumers only have the illusion of a choice and that big companies prey on their consumers. 
    All complete hogwash. No one is forced to buy or use any of the services in question here.

    Incapable EU politicians are poison to free markets.
    And here you prove that you do not get this at all. 
    This is not about end consumers. It's about competing companies that want to appear in search results and can't compete with Google Shopping's prominent placement. 
    Look, I know you're downvoting my replies. It still doesn't help your position.
    Oh my god, quit acting like a baby! 

    Back on on the subject, you proved you don't understand this problem. This has little to do with end consumers and everything to do with smaller shopping websites that can't compete with Google because Google advertises its products on its engine even when its products aren't the most relevant. 
    Bshank said it exactly right. It's Google's site, they paid billions of dollars to build it and maintain it, no one it forced to use it.
    The point is, however, that everyone DOES use it, and Google is using that FACT to DISADVANTAGE COMPETITORS IN AN UNRELATED FIELD (shopping, not search). 

    It REALLY isn't that complicated. 
  • Reply 148 of 150
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,626member

    fallenjt said:
    wizard69 said:
    This is a prime example of the EU's obsession with successful American companies.    Frankly i think the goverment here in the USA needs to take a more active roll in adressing this harassment.     In the end that is exactly what it is.   

    By the way iagree with Google, links to other search sites just waste my time.  The last thing we need is crappy service from Google because the EU can't compete.  
    I personally don't like Google but seriously, EU has too much hate toward American companies and trues to rip them by enforcing some antitrust bullshits!
    This is in no way biased towards US companies. European companies get fined heavily all the time for violations. They just a) aren't covered in YOUR news, and b) generally aren't nearly as big as the worldwide US-based megacorps. 
  • Reply 149 of 150
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,626member
    clemynx said:
    ike17055 said:
    wizard69 said:
    This is a prime example of the EU's obsession with successful American companies.    Frankly i think the goverment here in the USA needs to take a more active roll in adressing this harassment.   
    Google's success, and that of others, is in part how we can afford to continue paying the bulk of Europe's defense, while they sneer at us and laugh publicly at American admonishment for Europe's broken financial committment-- to itself. Trump gets a lot wrong, but he is right on this: if Europe wants to complain about how they cannot "depend" on America, perhaps they should stop shortchanging their own responsibilities, and quit always trying to play the U.S. for chumps, and begin to act like allies are supposed to act for once. 
    ???

    Europe would be fine without the US. YOU decided to put bases in Europe after the war. YOU can take them away we wouldn't care.

    Europe doesn't depend on the US for anything.

    The best way of being good allies is NOT leaving an international climate treaty and insulting basically every European leader.
    Woah there. 

    As a German, I can say with some certainty that all would NOT have been fine after the war without those US bases here. But it was a deal: we live with the constant knowledge and fear that whatever happens between Russia and the US if the Cold War goes hot will take us out first, and we live with the bases and constant military presence, and military exercises that ruin fields and roads and woods, and constant sonic booms from low-flying fighter jets, but we can be reasonably sure that the Eastern Bloc is deterred from attacking. 
    In return, the US got our financial and infrastructural support and the stability they needed to keep everything, including the possibility of war, off their own soil. 

    Of course, that has changed completely, and the situation today is as you describe, with Trump deliberately destroying what remaining diplomatic power cards the US might still have been holding. 
  • Reply 150 of 150
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,899administrator
    Remember that part about "treating each other with respect?" 

    Yeah, you guys blew it. Closing.
    gatorguyjSnively
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