Review: Amazon Echo Show is 'good enough'

135

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 81
    JDP81 said:
    boredumb said:
    I still can't see relying on Amazon for hardware OR software.
    They still can't make a Kindle work reliably or smoothly, or do much of anything well,
    and they've been "developing" those for ten years...
    Even the midrange ones cost more than their HD Fire "tablets",
    so I find their other products easy to avoid.
    It'd be like buying rocket engines from a company that hadn't quite yet mastered matches.
    The problem I have with Amazon is that all their products are profitable to them post-sale, they're all nothing more than store-fronts so Amazon can sell you more shit through their (cheaply designed, cheaply produced, cheaply sold) products, which is why they're all so much cheaper than Apple products (up front only). I find any discussion of price comparison between business models like Amazon's and Apple's to be wholly disingenuous because they never take into account the sinister ways Amazon's business model discretely and without your full understanding reaches around you, grabs your wallet and extracts money from it over time for every product of theirs you buy. You think it's cheaper because you only think about the initial price, but that's not Amazon's business model, they profit off you over time (as does Google). As for the functionality of their devices, well, they're all geared to optimising what I've just described about their business model - the question you need ask yourself is: "is this how I want a product designed for me?" Personally, I don't.
    And that's fine, but Amazon isn't a non-profit organization, so criticizing them for trying to profit is ridiculous lol
    If that's what you got from what I wrote, read again. It'd be pretty hypocritical of me to decry Amazon for profiting and not Apple, right? I deny neither the right to make a profit, what I have a problem with is the dishonesty in Amazon's business model. It is predicated on people not understanding they are going to be advertised to constantly through the cheap products of theirs they buy *so that* Amazon can profit on the product they've already sold. Apple is honest, they have a healthy profit margin and a higher price tag, but they don't have to sell you anything further to be a successful company that builds and sell products. Amazon *must* sell you shit post-sale, their business model demands it, and it's the slick way they (and others like them, for example, Google) extract money from your wallet without your realising what they're doing. Defending the dishonest business model, that's ridiculous.
    watto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 42 of 81
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,374member
    JDP81 said:
    boredumb said:
    I still can't see relying on Amazon for hardware OR software.
    They still can't make a Kindle work reliably or smoothly, or do much of anything well,
    and they've been "developing" those for ten years...
    Even the midrange ones cost more than their HD Fire "tablets",
    so I find their other products easy to avoid.
    It'd be like buying rocket engines from a company that hadn't quite yet mastered matches.
    The problem I have with Amazon is that all their products are profitable to them post-sale, they're all nothing more than store-fronts so Amazon can sell you more shit through their (cheaply designed, cheaply produced, cheaply sold) products, which is why they're all so much cheaper than Apple products (up front only). I find any discussion of price comparison between business models like Amazon's and Apple's to be wholly disingenuous because they never take into account the sinister ways Amazon's business model discretely and without your full understanding reaches around you, grabs your wallet and extracts money from it over time for every product of theirs you buy. You think it's cheaper because you only think about the initial price, but that's not Amazon's business model, they profit off you over time (as does Google). As for the functionality of their devices, well, they're all geared to optimising what I've just described about their business model - the question you need ask yourself is: "is this how I want a product designed for me?" Personally, I don't.
    And that's fine, but Amazon isn't a non-profit organization, so criticizing them for trying to profit is ridiculous lol
    Yes, Apple's business model is to make most of the profit upfront on hardware and offer cheap software, but these days is also going for services profit.
    Microsoft's model is selling profitable software. With high priced reference hardware to encourage sales of similar partner products that use MS software and services.
    Amazon's is to use cheap hardware as a gateway and thus not seek a profit on the hardware at purchase. A loss leader to get you into its store. This strategy also has the added benefit (from Amazon's perspective) of screwing the small fry competition which doesn't have Amazon's deep pockets. 
    watto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 43 of 81
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 3,701administrator
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    Max is our video guy. If its a video, he's the one responsible for it, with perhaps some polish by another staffer.

    I agree that Alexa is better than Siri as I've been hammering on an Echo for about two months -- but I prefer Apple's stance on data collection. Frankly, I use neither.
    Soli
  • Reply 44 of 81
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    Max is our video guy. If its a video, he's the one responsible for it, with perhaps some polish by another staffer.

    I agree that Alexa is better than Siri as I've been hammering on an Echo for about two months -- but I prefer Apple's stance on data collection. Frankly, I use neither.
    There is "better" and better. What doesn't better even mean if for example they're all mostly useless as you seem to imply by not using them.
    What criteria are used; voice recognition, ability to be called across all devices, mixed language use, multi-platform use, search, whatever.

    Seems a review of those devices should define a use case and then see if the device is good for this use case cause a blanket better makes no sense in this case.

    For example, Siri is definititely better in language coverage; for people who need that Alexa is at 0% for them.
    dewme
  • Reply 45 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,403member
    foggyhill said:
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    Max is our video guy. If its a video, he's the one responsible for it, with perhaps some polish by another staffer.

    I agree that Alexa is better than Siri as I've been hammering on an Echo for about two months -- but I prefer Apple's stance on data collection. Frankly, I use neither.
    There is "better" and better. What doesn't better even mean if for example they're all mostly useless as you seem to imply by not using them.
    What criteria are used; voice recognition, ability to be called across all devices, mixed language use, multi-platform use, search, whatever.

    Seems a review of those devices should define a use case and then see if the device is good for this use case cause a blanket better makes no sense in this case.

    For example, Siri is definititely better in language coverage; for people who need that Alexa is at 0% for them.
    Echo/Alexa is better than iPhone/iPad/Siri at hearing your wake word and recording your query without interference and/or being able to discern both what you're saying and the context in which you're saying it. Alexa is better at giving you a vocalized answer. Alexa is faster, or at least feels instant compared to using Siri. Amazon lets you view previous queries and submit them to Amazon if there's an error or other concern with the results through their mobile app and web app, while Apple has nothing to help idealize the service. Alexa allows for switching the wake word (Why? Maybe you have a daughter named Alexi), numerous settings to help optimize the service, buit-in 3rd-party apps, like Spotify, and 10s of thousands of 3rd-party apps they call Skills which currently makes Echo products the best option for a connected, voice-controlled, intelligent home. Alexa can run numerous—perhaps unlimited—timers, while Siri can only run one. Alexa allows a lot more to be altered, like settings, via voice since it's primarily a voice driven product.

    Siri has a considerably larger range of language support. Siri can probably answer a large range of questions and possibly some more correct answers for time-based events, like sporting events.

    I know you all like to hate on Alexa, but Amazon has done an amazing job in a market segment they invented. Below is a link to to test that Forbes conducted. You could do 24 different questions that would make either device win depending on what you asked and who asked them. Overall it's difficult to test these services because of the HW variances. Once HomePod arrives we'll get better tests because both devices will have an array of far-field microphones and give voice-only replies.

  • Reply 46 of 81
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Soli said:
    foggyhill said:
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    Max is our video guy. If its a video, he's the one responsible for it, with perhaps some polish by another staffer.

    I agree that Alexa is better than Siri as I've been hammering on an Echo for about two months -- but I prefer Apple's stance on data collection. Frankly, I use neither.
    There is "better" and better. What doesn't better even mean if for example they're all mostly useless as you seem to imply by not using them.
    What criteria are used; voice recognition, ability to be called across all devices, mixed language use, multi-platform use, search, whatever.

    Seems a review of those devices should define a use case and then see if the device is good for this use case cause a blanket better makes no sense in this case.

    For example, Siri is definititely better in language coverage; for people who need that Alexa is at 0% for them.
    Echo/Alexa is better than iPhone/iPad/Siri at hearing your wake word and recording your query without interference and/or being able to discern both what you're saying and the context in which you're saying it. Alexa is better at giving you a vocalized answer. Alexa is faster, or at least feels instant compared to using Siri. Amazon lets you view previous queries and submit them to Amazon if there's an error or other concern with the results through their mobile app and web app, while Apple has nothing to help idealize the service. Alexa allows for switching the wake word (Why? Maybe you have a daughter named Alexi), numerous settings to help optimize the service, buit-in 3rd-party apps, like Spotify, and 10s of thousands of 3rd-party apps they call Skills which currently makes Echo products the best option for a connected, voice-controlled, intelligent home. Alexa can run numerous—perhaps unlimited—timers, while Siri can only run one. Alexa allows a lot more to be altered, like settings, via voice since it's primarily a voice driven product.

    Siri has a considerably larger range of language support. Siri can probably answer a large range of questions and possibly some more correct answers for time-based events, like sporting events.

    I know you all like to hate on Alexa, but Amazon has done an amazing job in a market segment they invented. Below is a link to to test that Forbes conducted. You could do 24 different questions that would make either device win depending on what you asked and who asked them. Overall it's difficult to test these services because of the HW variances. Once HomePod arrives we'll get better tests because both devices will have an array of far-field microphones and give voice-only replies.

    So basically unscientific crap and feels, good you cleared this up 
    you do know I have used it huh
    the forbes this is as unscientific as it gets , the fact that's all you got means you don't have much


  • Reply 47 of 81
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,236member
    It seems to me that an iPad sitting on base that supplies supplemental power, speakers and microphone would match and exceed pretty much anything this contraption could ever imagine.

    The microphone and speakers on the iPad were designed for personal, close contact use and do well for that purpose.   A simple stand could easily and cheaply provide the wider functionality this purpose requires...
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 48 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,403member
    foggyhill said:
    Soli said:
    foggyhill said:
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    Max is our video guy. If its a video, he's the one responsible for it, with perhaps some polish by another staffer.

    I agree that Alexa is better than Siri as I've been hammering on an Echo for about two months -- but I prefer Apple's stance on data collection. Frankly, I use neither.
    There is "better" and better. What doesn't better even mean if for example they're all mostly useless as you seem to imply by not using them.
    What criteria are used; voice recognition, ability to be called across all devices, mixed language use, multi-platform use, search, whatever.

    Seems a review of those devices should define a use case and then see if the device is good for this use case cause a blanket better makes no sense in this case.

    For example, Siri is definititely better in language coverage; for people who need that Alexa is at 0% for them.
    Echo/Alexa is better than iPhone/iPad/Siri at hearing your wake word and recording your query without interference and/or being able to discern both what you're saying and the context in which you're saying it. Alexa is better at giving you a vocalized answer. Alexa is faster, or at least feels instant compared to using Siri. Amazon lets you view previous queries and submit them to Amazon if there's an error or other concern with the results through their mobile app and web app, while Apple has nothing to help idealize the service. Alexa allows for switching the wake word (Why? Maybe you have a daughter named Alexi), numerous settings to help optimize the service, buit-in 3rd-party apps, like Spotify, and 10s of thousands of 3rd-party apps they call Skills which currently makes Echo products the best option for a connected, voice-controlled, intelligent home. Alexa can run numerous—perhaps unlimited—timers, while Siri can only run one. Alexa allows a lot more to be altered, like settings, via voice since it's primarily a voice driven product.

    Siri has a considerably larger range of language support. Siri can probably answer a large range of questions and possibly some more correct answers for time-based events, like sporting events.

    I know you all like to hate on Alexa, but Amazon has done an amazing job in a market segment they invented. Below is a link to to test that Forbes conducted. You could do 24 different questions that would make either device win depending on what you asked and who asked them. Overall it's difficult to test these services because of the HW variances. Once HomePod arrives we'll get better tests because both devices will have an array of far-field microphones and give voice-only replies.

    So basically unscientific crap and feels, good you cleared this up 
    you do know I have used it huh
    the forbes this is as unscientific as it gets , the fact that's all you got means you don't have much


    What exactly in my comment do you consider "feels." The only use of "feels" I mentioned is that Alexa feels instantaneous, which, of course, is impossible, but used to represent just how fast Alexa is at listening to a query, packaging the audio file, sending the file, converting speech to text, analyzing the context, creating a reply to the query, sending that data back to the device, and either playing the audio reply and/or executing some other activity on the device. But, sure, go ahead and say that my experience where Siri takes seconds to respond to "Hey Siri" makes my assessment pointless because I used the word 'feels" in a specific context.

    PS: It still takes macOS about 4–6 seconds to activate Siri when you double tap the fn-key, but since that's an Apple product and the MBP is milled aluminium that's perfectly acceptable because the Echo is from Amazon and the Echo Show is ugly¡
  • Reply 49 of 81
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,393member
    The problem I have with Amazon is that all their products are profitable to them post-sale, they're all nothing more than store-fronts so Amazon can sell you more shit through their (cheaply designed, cheaply produced, cheaply sold) products, which is why they're all so much cheaper than Apple products (up front only). I find any discussion of price comparison between business models like Amazon's and Apple's to be wholly disingenuous because they never take into account the sinister ways Amazon's business model discretely and without your full understanding reaches around you, grabs your wallet and extracts money from it over time for every product of theirs you buy. You think it's cheaper because you only think about the initial price, but that's not Amazon's business model, they profit off you over time (as does Google). As for the functionality of their devices, well, they're all geared to optimising what I've just described about their business model - the question you need ask yourself is: "is this how I want a product designed for me?" Personally, I don't.
    You got it right. It is all about tying you into Amazon for everything you do.
    IMHO, this is all part of their grand plan to make all other retailers shut up shop.
    While this stuff from Amazon is convienent do you really want them to be the only store left anywhere?
    This 'thing' gathers all sorts of data on your life. Amazon will use it to target ads at you, even for things you just bought and are now cheaper (that sucks)

    Sorry Amazon, I for one am not going to take the bait. In fact I'm spending more of my money with local independant traders and not with the big boys.
    Yes I'm a grumpy, ornery old git and not your target market but I know I'm not alone in rejecting you and Wallyworld and ... and ....
    Any you know what? I feel better for it.
    Amazon is great.   Prices are cheap enough and I get what I order in two days.   I find that renting and buying movies is cheaper on Amazon than Apple.  After Borders and Barnes and Noble put most mom and pop bookstores out of business why should we care if Borders, Barnes, and Noble, Circuit City, etc, go under.   Smaller stores will just have to find their niche based on service.  And so far I think Amazon is very smart about with the Alexa offerings.   They have found niches and offered products that perform better than the competition.   
  • Reply 50 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,403member
    It seems to me that an iPad sitting on base that supplies supplemental power, speakers and microphone would match and exceed pretty much anything this contraption could ever imagine.

    The microphone and speakers on the iPad were designed for personal, close contact use and do well for that purpose.   A simple stand could easily and cheaply provide the wider functionality this purpose requires…
    If an iPad display could be paired with the same or better HW of the Echo Show it would obviously be better HW than the Echo Show, but you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does. Apple would have to create a specific UI that is primarily voice-based with the display being an auxiliary I/O. This is the same with Siri on the iPhone v any of the other Echo products, which @foggyhilll just pooh-poohed for having something positive to say about Alexa. Alexa is designed for voice commands -and- voice replies. Echo Show—as ugly as it is—is just pushing that further as Amazon has just allowed it to send and receive calls, which are currently only between Echo users, and so video chat was an obvious next step as well as showcasing some basic visual data, like the weather. I doubt this will be as popular as the other Echo products, and I'd be surprised if Apple follows suit with a "HomePad," but first let's have the HomePod become a success before Apple ventures into a cheaper product categories, as they are wont to do.

    PS: I hope Apple has voice/messaging calling/answering out of the gate with HomePod, as well as a connection with the Apple TV. This is one area in which Amazon will not be able to easily compete since they have no cellphone market and no integration, whereas Apple can offer this right away. It's actually quite good on the Echo, but it will likely always be limited to those with Echo devices.


    PPS: Amazon is also rumoured to release their own messaging app platform, which I understand from their end with this new Alexa feature and with most of their customer service being text-based, but I also have to wonder if this is even worth the investment if their current one is working.
  • Reply 51 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,403member
    k2kw said:
    The problem I have with Amazon is that all their products are profitable to them post-sale, they're all nothing more than store-fronts so Amazon can sell you more shit through their (cheaply designed, cheaply produced, cheaply sold) products, which is why they're all so much cheaper than Apple products (up front only). I find any discussion of price comparison between business models like Amazon's and Apple's to be wholly disingenuous because they never take into account the sinister ways Amazon's business model discretely and without your full understanding reaches around you, grabs your wallet and extracts money from it over time for every product of theirs you buy. You think it's cheaper because you only think about the initial price, but that's not Amazon's business model, they profit off you over time (as does Google). As for the functionality of their devices, well, they're all geared to optimising what I've just described about their business model - the question you need ask yourself is: "is this how I want a product designed for me?" Personally, I don't.
    You got it right. It is all about tying you into Amazon for everything you do.
    IMHO, this is all part of their grand plan to make all other retailers shut up shop.
    While this stuff from Amazon is convienent do you really want them to be the only store left anywhere?
    This 'thing' gathers all sorts of data on your life. Amazon will use it to target ads at you, even for things you just bought and are now cheaper (that sucks)

    Sorry Amazon, I for one am not going to take the bait. In fact I'm spending more of my money with local independant traders and not with the big boys.
    Yes I'm a grumpy, ornery old git and not your target market but I know I'm not alone in rejecting you and Wallyworld and ... and ....
    Any you know what? I feel better for it.
    Amazon is great.   Prices are cheap enough and I get what I order in two days.   I find that renting and buying movies is cheaper on Amazon than Apple.  After Borders and Barnes and Noble put most mom and pop bookstores out of business why should we care if Borders, Barnes, and Noble, Circuit City, etc, go under.   Smaller stores will just have to find their niche based on service.  And so far I think Amazon is very smart about with the Alexa offerings.   They have found niches and offered products that perform better than the competition.   
    Speaking of books and renting, renting textbooks is usually a great option on Amazon.
  • Reply 52 of 81
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,371member
    Soli said:
    foggyhill said:
    Soli said:
    foggyhill said:
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    Max is our video guy. If its a video, he's the one responsible for it, with perhaps some polish by another staffer.

    I agree that Alexa is better than Siri as I've been hammering on an Echo for about two months -- but I prefer Apple's stance on data collection. Frankly, I use neither.
    There is "better" and better. What doesn't better even mean if for example they're all mostly useless as you seem to imply by not using them.
    What criteria are used; voice recognition, ability to be called across all devices, mixed language use, multi-platform use, search, whatever.

    Seems a review of those devices should define a use case and then see if the device is good for this use case cause a blanket better makes no sense in this case.

    For example, Siri is definititely better in language coverage; for people who need that Alexa is at 0% for them.
    Echo/Alexa is better than iPhone/iPad/Siri at hearing your wake word and recording your query without interference and/or being able to discern both what you're saying and the context in which you're saying it. Alexa is better at giving you a vocalized answer. Alexa is faster, or at least feels instant compared to using Siri. Amazon lets you view previous queries and submit them to Amazon if there's an error or other concern with the results through their mobile app and web app, while Apple has nothing to help idealize the service. Alexa allows for switching the wake word (Why? Maybe you have a daughter named Alexi), numerous settings to help optimize the service, buit-in 3rd-party apps, like Spotify, and 10s of thousands of 3rd-party apps they call Skills which currently makes Echo products the best option for a connected, voice-controlled, intelligent home. Alexa can run numerous—perhaps unlimited—timers, while Siri can only run one. Alexa allows a lot more to be altered, like settings, via voice since it's primarily a voice driven product.

    Siri has a considerably larger range of language support. Siri can probably answer a large range of questions and possibly some more correct answers for time-based events, like sporting events.

    I know you all like to hate on Alexa, but Amazon has done an amazing job in a market segment they invented. Below is a link to to test that Forbes conducted. You could do 24 different questions that would make either device win depending on what you asked and who asked them. Overall it's difficult to test these services because of the HW variances. Once HomePod arrives we'll get better tests because both devices will have an array of far-field microphones and give voice-only replies.

    So basically unscientific crap and feels, good you cleared this up 
    you do know I have used it huh
    the forbes this is as unscientific as it gets , the fact that's all you got means you don't have much


    What exactly in my comment do you consider "feels." The only use of "feels" I mentioned is that Alexa feels instantaneous, which, of course, is impossible, but used to represent just how fast Alexa is at listening to a query, packaging the audio file, sending the file, converting speech to text, analyzing the context, creating a reply to the query, sending that data back to the device, and either playing the audio reply and/or executing some other activity on the device. But, sure, go ahead and say that my experience where Siri takes seconds to respond to "Hey Siri" makes my assessment pointless because I used the word 'feels" in a specific context.

    PS: It still takes macOS about 4–6 seconds to activate Siri when you double tap the fn-key, but since that's an Apple product and the MBP is milled aluminium that's perfectly acceptable because the Echo is from Amazon and the Echo Show is ugly¡
    IMHO far too many posters take umbrage with a post that they didn't bother to actually read, and then go on to complain vociferously about something the OP never said. :/
    avon b7
  • Reply 53 of 81
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,236member
    Soli said:
    It seems to me that an iPad sitting on base that supplies supplemental power, speakers and microphone would match and exceed pretty much anything this contraption could ever imagine.

    The microphone and speakers on the iPad were designed for personal, close contact use and do well for that purpose.   A simple stand could easily and cheaply provide the wider functionality this purpose requires…
    If an iPad display could be paired with the same or better HW of the Echo Show it would obviously be better HW than the Echo Show, but you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does. Apple would have to create a specific UI that is primarily voice-based with the display being an auxiliary I/O. This is the same with Siri on the iPhone v any of the other Echo products, which @foggyhilll just pooh-poohed for having something positive to say about Alexa. Alexa is designed for voice commands -and- voice replies. Echo Show—as ugly as it is—is just pushing that further as Amazon has just allowed it to send and receive calls, which are currently only between Echo users, and so video chat was an obvious next step as well as showcasing some basic visual data, like the weather. I doubt this will be as popular as the other Echo products, and I'd be surprised if Apple follows suit with a "HomePad," but first let's have the HomePod become a success before Apple ventures into a cheaper product categories, as they are wont to do.

    PS: I hope Apple has voice/messaging calling/answering out of the gate with HomePod, as well as a connection with the Apple TV. This is one area in which Amazon will not be able to easily compete since they have no cellphone market and no integration, whereas Apple can offer this right away. It's actually quite good on the Echo, but it will likely always be limited to those with Echo devices.


    PPS: Amazon is also rumoured to release their own messaging app platform, which I understand from their end with this new Alexa feature and with most of their customer service being text-based, but I also have to wonder if this is even worth the investment if their current one is working.
    "... you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does."

    "Design" has little to do with it.   It is functionality...  The iPad has all the inherent functionality as the Echo -- it's only "design" limitation being that it was designed for hand-held personal use rather than from across a room.   But, more powerful speakers and microphones in a base unit could easily correct that problem.

    It's other issue is the glacial slowness of Siri.   I tend to fall asleep while Siri is trying to wake up -- but that's a problem for ALL Siri products that Apple needs to work on...  Aside from that, Apple would need to tweak some of the iPad software such as Home to be more proactive to voice commands.

    That's all very doable by Apple...   If they choose.
  • Reply 54 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,403member
    Soli said:
    It seems to me that an iPad sitting on base that supplies supplemental power, speakers and microphone would match and exceed pretty much anything this contraption could ever imagine.

    The microphone and speakers on the iPad were designed for personal, close contact use and do well for that purpose.   A simple stand could easily and cheaply provide the wider functionality this purpose requires…
    If an iPad display could be paired with the same or better HW of the Echo Show it would obviously be better HW than the Echo Show, but you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does. Apple would have to create a specific UI that is primarily voice-based with the display being an auxiliary I/O. This is the same with Siri on the iPhone v any of the other Echo products, which @foggyhilll just pooh-poohed for having something positive to say about Alexa. Alexa is designed for voice commands -and- voice replies. Echo Show—as ugly as it is—is just pushing that further as Amazon has just allowed it to send and receive calls, which are currently only between Echo users, and so video chat was an obvious next step as well as showcasing some basic visual data, like the weather. I doubt this will be as popular as the other Echo products, and I'd be surprised if Apple follows suit with a "HomePad," but first let's have the HomePod become a success before Apple ventures into a cheaper product categories, as they are wont to do.

    PS: I hope Apple has voice/messaging calling/answering out of the gate with HomePod, as well as a connection with the Apple TV. This is one area in which Amazon will not be able to easily compete since they have no cellphone market and no integration, whereas Apple can offer this right away. It's actually quite good on the Echo, but it will likely always be limited to those with Echo devices.


    PPS: Amazon is also rumoured to release their own messaging app platform, which I understand from their end with this new Alexa feature and with most of their customer service being text-based, but I also have to wonder if this is even worth the investment if their current one is working.
    "... you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does."

    "Design" has little to do with it.   It is functionality...  The iPad has all the inherent functionality as the Echo -- it's only "design" limitation being that it was designed for hand-held personal use rather than from across a room.   But, more powerful speakers and microphones in a base unit could easily correct that problem.

    It's other issue is the glacial slowness of Siri.   I tend to fall asleep while Siri is trying to wake up -- but that's a problem for ALL Siri products that Apple needs to work on...  Aside from that, Apple would need to tweak some of the iPad software such as Home to be more proactive to voice commands.

    That's all very doable by Apple...   If they choose.
    ”’Design’ has little to do with it” followed by “[the iPad] was designed for hand-held personal use rather than from across a room” in the same paragraph. Com’n, man! You just backed up my entire statement with that latter sentence.

    That's all very doable by Apple...   If they choose. 
    And what’s the point of this statement? Did anyone say Apple couldn’t shift Siri to the in-home market segment? Clearly they are since we’ve seen a HomePod demo, but even if we hadn’t it would still a useless statement.

    The relevant question is if it’s financially viable for Apple to choose to enter this market segment popularised by Amazon. We know it is with HomePod—as of 6 weeks ago when most here said it wouldn’t happen and used the excuse that Apple would have done it by now if it was—but what about for different products within the in-home digital personal assistant market? We can only speculate, but I can see a potential path for many other devices down the road.

    edited July 2017
  • Reply 55 of 81
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,236member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    It seems to me that an iPad sitting on base that supplies supplemental power, speakers and microphone would match and exceed pretty much anything this contraption could ever imagine.

    The microphone and speakers on the iPad were designed for personal, close contact use and do well for that purpose.   A simple stand could easily and cheaply provide the wider functionality this purpose requires…
    If an iPad display could be paired with the same or better HW of the Echo Show it would obviously be better HW than the Echo Show, but you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does. Apple would have to create a specific UI that is primarily voice-based with the display being an auxiliary I/O. This is the same with Siri on the iPhone v any of the other Echo products, which @foggyhilll just pooh-poohed for having something positive to say about Alexa. Alexa is designed for voice commands -and- voice replies. Echo Show—as ugly as it is—is just pushing that further as Amazon has just allowed it to send and receive calls, which are currently only between Echo users, and so video chat was an obvious next step as well as showcasing some basic visual data, like the weather. I doubt this will be as popular as the other Echo products, and I'd be surprised if Apple follows suit with a "HomePad," but first let's have the HomePod become a success before Apple ventures into a cheaper product categories, as they are wont to do.

    PS: I hope Apple has voice/messaging calling/answering out of the gate with HomePod, as well as a connection with the Apple TV. This is one area in which Amazon will not be able to easily compete since they have no cellphone market and no integration, whereas Apple can offer this right away. It's actually quite good on the Echo, but it will likely always be limited to those with Echo devices.


    PPS: Amazon is also rumoured to release their own messaging app platform, which I understand from their end with this new Alexa feature and with most of their customer service being text-based, but I also have to wonder if this is even worth the investment if their current one is working.
    "... you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does."

    "Design" has little to do with it.   It is functionality...  The iPad has all the inherent functionality as the Echo -- it's only "design" limitation being that it was designed for hand-held personal use rather than from across a room.   But, more powerful speakers and microphones in a base unit could easily correct that problem.

    It's other issue is the glacial slowness of Siri.   I tend to fall asleep while Siri is trying to wake up -- but that's a problem for ALL Siri products that Apple needs to work on...  Aside from that, Apple would need to tweak some of the iPad software such as Home to be more proactive to voice commands.

    That's all very doable by Apple...   If they choose.
    ”’Design’ has little to do with it” followed by “[the iPad] was designed for hand-held personal use rather than from across a room” in the same paragraph. Com’n, man! You just backed up my entire statement with that latter sentence.
    .....

    LOL...
    Acknowledging an easily corrected exception is hardly 'backing your entire' logic...  Actually trying to pretend that it does pretty much undermines any validity your argument may have had because it illustrates that it is not based on logic.  
  • Reply 56 of 81
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,350member
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    You think Apple Insider is writing an Apple hit piece?   That's pretty funny.  Doesn't AI usually get accused of kissing Apple's butt?   Of what you quoted, the first paragraph is a fact, the second is an opinion that has nothing to do with Apple and while the third is negative about Siri, I think there's pretty much universal agreement that Siri sucks and hasn't gotten the improvements that it should have.  
    Soliavon b7
  • Reply 57 of 81
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    zoetmb said:
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    You think Apple Insider is writing an Apple hit piece?   That's pretty funny.  Doesn't AI usually get accused of kissing Apple's butt?   Of what you quoted, the first paragraph is a fact, the second is an opinion that has nothing to do with Apple and while the third is negative about Siri, I think there's pretty much universal agreement that Siri sucks and hasn't gotten the improvements that it should have.  
    That's still not a review, universal what, by whom?  Who the hell cares about the 5 W of journalism; lets just go by pure feels for all so called "reviews" because lets face it, clicks are more important than facts. AppleInsider is slowly sliding towards MacRumor territory.

    This is supposed to be A REVIEW, not "the feels about Alexa pods" AppleInsider edition. This is probably the worse justified review since Patel at the The Verge did the embarrassing Apple Watch review.
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 58 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,403member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    It seems to me that an iPad sitting on base that supplies supplemental power, speakers and microphone would match and exceed pretty much anything this contraption could ever imagine.

    The microphone and speakers on the iPad were designed for personal, close contact use and do well for that purpose.   A simple stand could easily and cheaply provide the wider functionality this purpose requires…
    If an iPad display could be paired with the same or better HW of the Echo Show it would obviously be better HW than the Echo Show, but you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does. Apple would have to create a specific UI that is primarily voice-based with the display being an auxiliary I/O. This is the same with Siri on the iPhone v any of the other Echo products, which @foggyhilll just pooh-poohed for having something positive to say about Alexa. Alexa is designed for voice commands -and- voice replies. Echo Show—as ugly as it is—is just pushing that further as Amazon has just allowed it to send and receive calls, which are currently only between Echo users, and so video chat was an obvious next step as well as showcasing some basic visual data, like the weather. I doubt this will be as popular as the other Echo products, and I'd be surprised if Apple follows suit with a "HomePad," but first let's have the HomePod become a success before Apple ventures into a cheaper product categories, as they are wont to do.

    PS: I hope Apple has voice/messaging calling/answering out of the gate with HomePod, as well as a connection with the Apple TV. This is one area in which Amazon will not be able to easily compete since they have no cellphone market and no integration, whereas Apple can offer this right away. It's actually quite good on the Echo, but it will likely always be limited to those with Echo devices.


    PPS: Amazon is also rumoured to release their own messaging app platform, which I understand from their end with this new Alexa feature and with most of their customer service being text-based, but I also have to wonder if this is even worth the investment if their current one is working.
    "... you can't say it would be a better product because the iPad isn't designed to do what the Echo Show does."

    "Design" has little to do with it.   It is functionality...  The iPad has all the inherent functionality as the Echo -- it's only "design" limitation being that it was designed for hand-held personal use rather than from across a room.   But, more powerful speakers and microphones in a base unit could easily correct that problem.

    It's other issue is the glacial slowness of Siri.   I tend to fall asleep while Siri is trying to wake up -- but that's a problem for ALL Siri products that Apple needs to work on...  Aside from that, Apple would need to tweak some of the iPad software such as Home to be more proactive to voice commands.

    That's all very doable by Apple...   If they choose.
    ”’Design’ has little to do with it” followed by “[the iPad] was designed for hand-held personal use rather than from across a room” in the same paragraph. Com’n, man! You just backed up my entire statement with that latter sentence.
    .....

    LOL...
    Acknowledging an easily corrected exception is hardly 'backing your entire' logic...  Actually trying to pretend that it does pretty much undermines any validity your argument may have had because it illustrates that it is not based on logic.  
    So you're recanting your claim that the iPad was designed for a particular functionality in order to claim my comment that Alexa was designed for a particular functionally is wrong or are you recanting your claim that designing around functionality "has little to do with it." I don't see how you can backpedal on both those claims.
  • Reply 59 of 81
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,097member
    foggyhill said:
    zoetmb said:
    lkrupp said:
    Arguably the best home assistant gets even better with the launch of Amazon's latest Alexa-powered accessory, dubbed the Echo Show, arriving months before Apple's competing HomePod arrives in December. 

    Overall, we like the design. It has a mix of modern with a bit of retro that will fit well in most people’s homes. 

    Alexa puts Apple's Siri to shame, and really makes a point on how Apple has been lagging behind in this space.

    I’ve highlighted just a few gems that out this ‘review’ as a typical Apple hit piece. Other ‘competitors' are briefly mentioned but the negative focus is on Apple alone. The review hits all the talking points. Where did this review come from anyway? Never heard of the person who wrote it.
    You think Apple Insider is writing an Apple hit piece?   That's pretty funny.  Doesn't AI usually get accused of kissing Apple's butt?   Of what you quoted, the first paragraph is a fact, the second is an opinion that has nothing to do with Apple and while the third is negative about Siri, I think there's pretty much universal agreement that Siri sucks and hasn't gotten the improvements that it should have.  
    That's still not a review, universal what, by whom?  Who the hell cares about the 5 W of journalism; lets just go by pure feels for all so called "reviews" because lets face it, clicks are more important than facts. AppleInsider is slowly sliding towards MacRumor territory.

    This is supposed to be A REVIEW, not "the feels about Alexa pods" AppleInsider edition. This is probably the worse justified review since Patel at the The Verge did the embarrassing Apple Watch review.
    You’re so sensitive.
  • Reply 60 of 81
    I won't talk to a speaker and call it "Alexa". Why did they choose the name Alexa in the first place?! I really hate the name Alexa for a virtual assistant  (not a human though) and I just can't get used to Amazon's decision to call it ALEXA :| :| :|  is there a way to change the magic word?
    edited July 2017
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