Apple nixes plans to incorporate under-glass Touch ID in 'iPhone 8,' insider says

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 90
    foljsfoljs Posts: 367member
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    That seems like a perfectly ok trade-off. We go from having to touch a sensor over and over again every day with varying success rates to instantaneous authentication that requires no effort. In exchange it becomes less convenient when faces are covered. It's a clear and massive net reduction in overall friction


    Reduction in friction? Is this a joke? You now need to hold your phone to your face every time you need to sign in.
    bb-15jensonbnetmage
  • Reply 22 of 90
    kamiltonkamilton Posts: 262member
    Seems to me, given supply chain demands and production timelines, whatever it's going to be, it's already a done deal.  Apple isn't making changes at this late date.  Thread is mute
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 90
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    avon b7 said:
    Fingerprint scanner placement, if there is one, is purely an issue of preference. That's why why Android manufacturers dance between front and back designs constantly. You can't make everyone happy all the time.

    Many Android reviews simply state, 'scanner on the rear' or 'scanner on the front' without making a deal out of it.

    It really isn't such a big deal.
    It’s a big deal for me. In Touch ID or Touch ID on the back of her phone = no new phone for me. I’ll help my 7.
  • Reply 24 of 90
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    foljs said:
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    That seems like a perfectly ok trade-off. We go from having to touch a sensor over and over again every day with varying success rates to instantaneous authentication that requires no effort. In exchange it becomes less convenient when faces are covered. It's a clear and massive net reduction in overall friction


    Reduction in friction? Is this a joke? You now need to hold your phone to your face every time you need to sign in.
    And I’m not aware of a phone on the market where this works really well. Touch ID never fails for me.
    bb-15
  • Reply 25 of 90
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    How do I use Apple Pay when I’m checking out at the grocery store? Or do you expect everyone to have an Apple Watch?
  • Reply 26 of 90
    Why *wouldn't* Apple put the FPScanner into the Power-Button on the right-side of the phone, as Sony did to theirs? What's the downside of that location for it?
    radarthekat
  • Reply 27 of 90
    irelandireland Posts: 17,685member
    Hope it has Touch ID to knock Kuo off his high horse. Having first predicted it and now walking back it’d make him wrong twice in 12 months about althe same feature.
    edited August 2017 watto_cobraRayz2016
  • Reply 28 of 90
    irelandireland Posts: 17,685member
    Steve Jobs would of gotten it done!
    Not while dead.
    mike1Rayz2016
  • Reply 29 of 90
    Steve Jobs would of gotten it done!
    I cannot understand a plausible sentence construction in the English language where the word "of" follows the word "would" without punctuation (e.g., with a comma, wherein it would, of course, be possible).

    Punctuation would, of necessity, render the quoted sentence meaningless. 
    This is a phonetic corruption of the abbreviated form of "would have", i.e. "would've" written as, "would of". It's surprisingly common.
    watto_cobraStrangeDaysnetmagejony0
  • Reply 30 of 90
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,150moderator
    Steve Jobs would of gotten it done!
    I cannot understand a plausible sentence construction in the English language where the word "of" follows the word "would" without punctuation (e.g., with a comma, wherein it would, of course, be possible).

    Punctuation would, of necessity, render the quoted sentence meaningless. 
    That's always been a pet peeve of mine.  To my mind it portrays a certain laziness in use of the language.  But I've learned to just let it pass.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 90
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 842member
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    That seems like a perfectly ok trade-off. We go from having to touch a sensor over and over again every day with varying success rates to instantaneous authentication that requires no effort. In exchange it becomes less convenient when faces are covered. It's a clear and massive net reduction in overall friction.
    There are quite a few things that could take away from the accuracy of facial recognition that have been mentioned in this very thread. Yet you believe that this technology will be more accurate and reliable than the current Touch ID technology ? Aside from the occasional wet finger miss,  the Touch ID on my 7plus is nearly flawless. In the dark, with shades on, or with one of my many Red Sox caps on it works pretty much every time.  I am not sure the same can be said for facial recognition. 

    I am ok with this being a 2nd layer of security along with Touch ID, but as the standalone way of opening my phone throughout the day... I just don't know. 
    bb-15watto_cobranetmage
  • Reply 32 of 90
    firelockfirelock Posts: 165member
    I was driving the other day with my phone mounted on my dash. I asked Siri to open Google Maps and she replied I would have to unlock my iPhone first. I suddenly realized how convenient facial recognition for authentication would be.
    mattinozwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 90
    vlscoutvlscout Posts: 32member
    Bad product roadmap decisions by Apple, pure and simple.

    They should have introduced the "glass sandwich" external design last year, together with a slight V-Shape where the top of the phone is slightly thicker, to remove the ugly camera bump. Then they'd have a real iPhone 7 instead of an iPhone 6ss.

    Then, this year there would be the usual iterative / internal compenent upgrades, giving them another year to get the under-display touch ID solution right.

    Now it looks like we and the market will have the choice of an unexciting and lukewarmly received iPhone 6sss and a rushed half-finished bound-to-disappoint overpriced iPhone 8.


  • Reply 34 of 90
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,302member
    If Apple can't do under glass touch id perfectly then Samsung can't either, but then it's more important to Samsung to get to market first, I say go for it. I also cannot see how face recognition can work to Apple's standard, but I know they wouldn't screw this up, so it's going to be something pretty amazing, I'll bet. I'm sure they've got something very  trick up their sleeve.
    There are rumours that the Mate 10 could have and underscreen fingerprint sensor too.

    That's a lot of rumours pointing to the same feature. My guess is that the final designs of these phones are already finalised and Apple will have it.

    Being simple rumours though, the opposite might also be true.

    As a purely convenience feature, I don't really care if it's under the display, below the screen, on the side or on the rear. I think it should be at least as reliable as current options though. Putting something out, half baked, just to be first, would be a mistake IMO, especially as the Mate 10 might be Huawei's first concerted attempt to get on Apple's home turf.


    edited August 2017
  • Reply 35 of 90
    Apple could call the new face recognition Touchless ID, then drop the mic on the haters in the room.
    watto_cobraStrangeDays
  • Reply 36 of 90
    But, but, Mr. Well-Connected says so....

    /eye roll
    You know how psychics claim to be accurate in predicting the future by forgetting all the times they predicted it wrong in the past and only remembering the times they got it right?
    mattinozwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 90
    bobby88 said:
    Don't see facial recognition working on its own at the moment. Quite a few banking apps use Touch ID to login. Not saying they can't change the app but without having prior knowledge of what Apple will be making it will mean these apps will effectively be disabled(is already forgotten my physical password!)until any form of facial recognition is integrated back into said apps. Also from a normal payment point of view, you need to touch the ID button at the same time. It might not be so easy to get your face at the right angle to the screen to unlock/authorise payment
    That's not how Touch ID works. The banking app doesn't scan your fingerprint. It doesn't know what your fingerprint looks like. It cannot even access the raw data coming from the sensor. Touchless ID would work the same way. Unless Apple changes their APIs, banking apps would just work as before.
    mattinozwatto_cobraStrangeDaysnetmage
  • Reply 38 of 90
    If Apple can't do under glass touch id perfectly then Samsung can't either, but then it's more important to Samsung to get to market first, I say go for it. I also cannot see how face recognition can work to Apple's standard, but I know they wouldn't screw this up, so it's going to be something pretty amazing, I'll bet. I'm sure they've got something very  trick up their sleeve.
    If this works faster and more conveniently than Touch ID, expect Samsung to follow. I'm not saying Touch ID is dead, far from it. It'd be cool to put under glass Touch ID into Apple Watch Series 5, or what have you. I'm just saying Samsung often plays the "our iPhone copy can do that too!" game.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 90
    markbyrnmarkbyrn Posts: 612member
    So false rumors on top of false rumors equals Apple nixes the plan  :/
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 90
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    I remember when Touch ID was the new thing. People in the forums threw up all kinds of ridiculous "edge cases" where Touch ID would "fail". Can't use it while wearing ski gloves in winter or some fretting like that. Oh no! I just got out of the shower and my fingers are moist! Oh no! I'm changing the oil in my car and my fingers are all grimy! Oh no, what if I cut ny finger and have to wear a bandage? How will I ever unlock my phone?!

    C'mon people. Now I'm seeing the inevitable edge cases where it's like: "what if I'm wearing a ski mask while robbing a bank or skiing and I want to use my face to unlock my iPhone 8, it won't work!!!" What if I'm wearing a hazmat suit while cleaning up a nuclear reactor leak and I want to do some banking? Oh noes!!! My First World problems include having to enter a numeric code to unlock my $1200 iPhone.
    edited August 2017 tmayxzumattinozStrangeDays
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