Apple nixes plans to incorporate under-glass Touch ID in 'iPhone 8,' insider says

124

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 90
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Marvin said:
    You don't have to worry, they're going to provide a dongle for naysayers:
    Almost made me believe that Scoopertino was back.
  • Reply 62 of 90
    mike1mike1 Posts: 1,946member
    There is one big reason to forgo having an under glass fingerprint sensor:  It would make the iPhone much harder for a blind person to use. 
    This made it unacceptable.
    Please. Nobody is making a business decision based on the fraction of a percent of the population that is blind. Get real. 
    cornchip
  • Reply 63 of 90
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,982member
    foggyhill said:
    Complete BS that Apple took this decision now... Come on.
    Kuo is making me mad with his total P.O.S. "notes"; he's shameless..

    All those so called analysts right now are playing in garbage time...

    Also, about  Kuo, he should STFU, he's running at 20% accuracy right now just this year considering the long list of so called predictions.
    Don't get mad. He's been corrected in the last several years! I know you don't like this design and I don't either. Still, Apple won't release some half baked features. So, I'd rather wait instead of buying tge device that mimics Sandung's approach!
  • Reply 64 of 90
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,373member
    firelock said:
    I was driving the other day with my phone mounted on my dash. I asked Siri to open Google Maps and she replied I would have to unlock my iPhone first. I suddenly realized how convenient facial recognition for authentication would be.
    If your phone is facing directly towards you and sitting the right distance from your face, maybe. But it won't be normally.
    However, with Touch ID you can use 1 digit on a hand that you don't need to use for driving for the 3 seconds it'd take to unlock it.
    This keeps your eyes on the road as you aren't checking to see if your phone is facing toward you.
    Rayz2016
  • Reply 65 of 90
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,373member
    The user experience has to be great or Apple won't ship it just for the sake of shipping it.
    If Apple release it without Touch ID, they will be doing exactly this.
    Then once they have pulled that stunt, they won't then be able to put Touch ID back in any form on future iPhones or it'll draw criticism about the previous device that had it missing.

    Touch ID is more important than people realise. You don't have to pay any attention to use it. Your finger finds the indent and the device unlocks.
    You don't have to start aiming the camera to make sure your face is in the frame.
    netmage
  • Reply 66 of 90
    techrulestechrules Posts: 53unconfirmed, member
    Does NOT have to be either but could be both.    So you could have face id and also have a fingerprint sensor on the rear.

    But in the end it is fun that we have something secret from Apple that is interesting.   I have been missing those days.   Lately we know everything exactly how it will be way, way before things are released and they tend to be kind of boring, IMO.

    It shocked me that Apple removed the headphone jack and thought it was a pretty dumb move.   So you never know.   Could be they have it working underneath and really well.   If had this I would leak these alternative rumors to get what we use to get in the past with Jobs which was pleasant surprises.   That is the emotion that got Apple to where they are today.   They can not do it anymore with product innovation so this is another way to get there.

    If I had to guess right now it would be either on the rear or not included with leaning towards the rear.

    Personally, on the fence on what phone will get this fall.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 67 of 90
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,422member
    I have a really difficult time imagining Apple putting sensor on the back, but that's just me. Unless it's in the logo which would be pretty cool.
  • Reply 68 of 90
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,797member
    Rayz2016 said:
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    Ignored? I don't think so, but that's probably because I was about to say the exact same thing. 

    I approach an NFC terminal, and rather than touching a button to authorise a payment, now I have to hold up the phone, take off my glasses (or put the on – did I have them in when I took the pic?), take off my hat, maybe have a shave…


    What makes you think you have to "hold up your phone", despite rumors specifically saying otherwise (that it works at angles)? 

    Funny how people like to trash a thing before, you know, using a thing. Tho they did the same exact thing about Touch ID when it was rumored.
  • Reply 69 of 90
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,797member

    bobby88 said:
    Don't see facial recognition working on its own at the moment. Quite a few banking apps use Touch ID to login. Not saying they can't change the app but without having prior knowledge of what Apple will be making it will mean these apps will effectively be disabled(is already forgotten my physical password!)until any form of facial recognition is integrated back into said apps. Also from a normal payment point of view, you need to touch the ID button at the same time. It might not be so easy to get your face at the right angle to the screen to unlock/authorise payment
    It will work at angles. See document scanning in iOS 11. Enough with the FUD.
  • Reply 70 of 90
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,797member
    foljs said:
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    That seems like a perfectly ok trade-off. We go from having to touch a sensor over and over again every day with varying success rates to instantaneous authentication that requires no effort. In exchange it becomes less convenient when faces are covered. It's a clear and massive net reduction in overall friction


    Reduction in friction? Is this a joke? You now need to hold your phone to your face every time you need to sign in.
    False statement -- you dont know that, and I certainly doubt it. 

    It's like you people don't learn from the past -- that Apple doesnt release the half-baked nonsense you see from the knockoff vendors.
  • Reply 71 of 90
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,797member

    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    How do I use Apple Pay when I’m checking out at the grocery store? Or do you expect everyone to have an Apple Watch?
    Why do we have to keep answering this for you? Why wouldnt you simply place your phone on the table-top NFC reader, possibly tap the challenge button, and let it scan your face from an angle? Why is your imagination lacking so much that you can't conceive of things like this?
  • Reply 72 of 90
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,797member

    vlscout said:
    Bad product roadmap decisions by Apple, pure and simple.
    Oh yes, pure and simple. If only the most successful public company in the history of humanity knew what you knew! Is it too late!?
  • Reply 73 of 90
    IF Apple has indeed nixed the under the glass touch Id (I agree with most that Kuo has no idea), and they decided to put it on the back of the phone, I could see the Apple logo itself being the sensor. It is about the perfect placement (for my hand anyway) and would be pretty seamless from a design perspective.

    Of course, I have no idea if/what challenges come with an irregular shaped sensor would be.
  • Reply 74 of 90
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,797member
    slurpy said:
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Sorry, maybe I'm being insane, but if you're going through all the trouble of stopping your bike, and taking off your gloves, would it be THAT much of an issue to just take another half second and enter your passcode in that very specific case? It's like people forget there is a passcode fallback, which, you know, works if you're wearing a helmet, dangling upside down with a skimask, or other such scenario. Yes, there are cases where Face ID won't work (wearing a mask), just like there are cases where Touch ID won't work (wearing gloves). These will NEVER cover 100% of cases, and when they don't entering a passcode isn't going to kill you.  
    I know, these wannabe-doomsayers with their fringe edge cases are ridiculous. The workings of limited minds. For what gain I'm not certain....
  • Reply 75 of 90
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,797member

    gatorguy said:
    jurassic said:
    "Kuo says Apple has "cancelled" plans to embed a fingerprint recognition solution in the next-generation flagship iPhone." It sounds a bit fishy that Apple would just now (a month before release) cancel a major feature of the new iPhone. All features were likely locked-in a year ago. There is no way that Apple would just now be making a major change to their product, which probably had contracts for all components established at least a year ago, and probably is already in production in order to have a stockpile for next month's release.
    Why would it be so impossible to believe that Apple might plan for a feature, but not be able to roll it out for reasons beyond their control? Best laid plans and all that....
    Because as sources have told Gruber, these things are planned out years in advance. You can't produce millions of them for next month without having locked down hardware a long time ago. The iPhone is the most successful product in history and their biggest earner, it doesn't pop up with gotchas like this a month before launch. 

    It's like saying NASA is gonna wing their next launch.
  • Reply 76 of 90
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,797member
    evilution said:
    The user experience has to be great or Apple won't ship it just for the sake of shipping it.
    If Apple release it without Touch ID, they will be doing exactly this.
    Then once they have pulled that stunt, they won't then be able to put Touch ID back in any form on future iPhones or it'll draw criticism about the previous device that had it missing.

    Touch ID is more important than people realise. You don't have to pay any attention to use it. Your finger finds the indent and the device unlocks.
    You don't have to start aiming the camera to make sure your face is in the frame.
    Your obvious mistake is assuming you need to aim the phone directly at your face. 

    I love how all these critics who have nothing whatsoever to do with product development are now experts in...product development. And (not really) at Apple, no less.
  • Reply 77 of 90
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,283member

    gatorguy said:
    jurassic said:
    "Kuo says Apple has "cancelled" plans to embed a fingerprint recognition solution in the next-generation flagship iPhone." It sounds a bit fishy that Apple would just now (a month before release) cancel a major feature of the new iPhone. All features were likely locked-in a year ago. There is no way that Apple would just now be making a major change to their product, which probably had contracts for all components established at least a year ago, and probably is already in production in order to have a stockpile for next month's release.
    Why would it be so impossible to believe that Apple might plan for a feature, but not be able to roll it out for reasons beyond their control? Best laid plans and all that....
    Because as sources have told Gruber, these things are planned out years in advance. You can't produce millions of them for next month without having locked down hardware a long time ago. The iPhone is the most successful product in history and their biggest earner, it doesn't pop up with gotchas like this a month before launch. 

    It's like saying NASA is gonna wing their next launch.
    Of course they're PLANNED out. Planned....
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 78 of 90
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,298member
    foljs said:
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    That seems like a perfectly ok trade-off. We go from having to touch a sensor over and over again every day with varying success rates to instantaneous authentication that requires no effort. In exchange it becomes less convenient when faces are covered. It's a clear and massive net reduction in overall friction


    Reduction in friction? Is this a joke? You now need to hold your phone to your face every time you need to sign in.
    False statement -- you dont know that, and I certainly doubt it. 

    It's like you people don't learn from the past -- that Apple doesnt release the half-baked nonsense you see from the knockoff vendors.
    To be fair, Apple has released some very big half-baked features over the years and in some areas is playing catch up with some of your so called knock-off vendors.
  • Reply 79 of 90
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 838member
    So four pages of comments under our belt and I have to say that this may be good news for Apple because it will differentiate the 7S/7Splus lines from the iPhone X/8/Pro and drive sales numbers depending on what you prefer:

    TouchID? get a 7S/7Splus

    FaceID? get a X/8/pro (or whatever they call it).

    I love TouchID but it is not perfect.  Try working on your car or washing dishes or wearing gloves on a winter day...it is a pain to place your dirty/wet/cold finger on the TouchID sensor.  Some of have busy lives and are not hanging around on a couch and staring at our iPhones.

    I'll be happy to try FaceID for a few years...
  • Reply 80 of 90
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    Well, you can still type in your 4-digit passcode manually...
Sign In or Register to comment.