Samsung is sole supplier of costly 'iPhone 8' OLED, putting Apple in 'urgent need' of alte...

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  • Reply 21 of 37
    ksecksec Posts: 1,568member
    ksec said:
    1. MicroLED aren't likely coming to Apple Watch or iPhone. At any rate they may come to TV first, before the tech move into smaller devices if at all.
    Probably the opposite is true. It is much harder to manufacture a huge defect free panel with 10M pixels, vs a much smaller panel with 120k pixels, don't you think?
    If you have a certain probability that a certain pixel ends up dead due to production, you surely will get a MUCH higher probability of having at least 1 defect, with a 10Mpx panel, comparing to 120kpx panel. That is why it took so long for Apple to get 4k and 5k panels into their products.
    True if the panel are produced in wafer / sheet. This is how it works for OLED and LCD.

    There are really two types of Micro-LED, one that is being used and sold and continuously refined by Sony. First came out as Crystal LED Technology. You bond those "individual" LED into a panel. That is currently only working at 40PPi, and with an 80PPI coming soon.

    The other one is MicroLED on film, which allows up to 1000ppi. But the tech is so far from commercial production, we will likely not see it on any Apple's product in the next five years. Compared to OLED, as much as I hate to admit it, is making a lot of progress and cost saving year after year.  
    Solipscooter63
  • Reply 22 of 37
    nhughes said:
    foggyhill said:
    nhughes said:
    Seems like a lot of speculation and not much else. Why do rumor sites give this guy so much attention?
    Because he has been the first to accurately report on many upcoming hardware decisions, including the expected OLED screen, glass back, and facial recognition capabilities of the "iPhone 8" way back in March of 2016:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/03/26/new-iphone-model-with-curved-glass-case-58-amoled-display-due-in-2017-insider-says

    And the 10.5-inch iPad Pro back in August of 2016:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/15/apple-to-debut-105-ipad-pro-in-2017-integrate-flexible-amoled-tech-in-2018

    And the new 9.7-inch entry-level iPad in January of this year:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/01/08/apple-on-track-to-launch-three-new-ipads-in-spring-2017-but-none-of-them-mini

    And the (alleged) $1000-and-up pricing of the "iPhone 8" this February:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/02/15/apples-iphone-8-to-replace-touch-id-home-button-with-function-area

    And the features and capabilities of HomePod in March:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/05/01/apples-siri-based-echo-competitor-to-carry-premium-price-feature-high-end-audio-with-1-woofer-7-tweeters

    Is his track record perfect? No, it's not. But nobody else out there provides, in terms of quantity, more accurate information on Apple's hardware pipeline than Ming-Chi Kuo. Not Gruber, not Gurman, not anyone else.
    If you announce a 1000 things a year. A few are bound to be right, either put siome stat out or stop pushing your narrative. Yoû're suffering from confirmation biad and cherry picking. 

    Also, he constantly revise his so called predictions  so how can he be wrong? He does that to everything he says ever; aka a crapshoot.

    he knows only remember the right guesses and not the wrong ones

    You're welcome to look through our past coverage and see for yourself. We cover his notes for a reason — because no one else provides more accurate and regular updates on upcoming hardware. That's really all there is to it.

    http://appleinsider.com/topic/ming-chi+kuo
    I've read the countless notes he publishes a year, one every week seemingly and every note is mostly wrong. Not half wrong, but almost all wrong in the end.

    If you publish a note that mentions 10 things on it (yes these things happen a lot), repeating mostly existing rumors, and 1 turns out right of your own and 3-4 other rumors pan out, you don't get a kudos for the whole lot (though many do that) and certainly not for your 10% hit rate.

    That's my whole point. I can you be "well connected" if your mostly wrong most of the time on a subject or say things like Apple changed X, or Y, W a at a time were it is absolutely impossible to be true (yes, I'm a computer engineer who has worked with manufacturing so I know those things).

    His timing on Apple decisions are the most absurd at all and shows he doesn't know what he's talking about and neither the people he's getting the info from.
    Not only that, he often ads some ridiculous internal strategy and pricing comments that are obviously complete utter bullshit and turns out even more wrong than the rest.
    He does that all the time.

    ---

    So, apply actual science, stat analysis and logic to your data cause seriously, that link provides no proof at all of what you purport.

    Its exactly what I'm saying. He provides "copy" and "filler" is probably a lot closer assessment of him than claiming he's a good leaker.




    StrangeDays
  • Reply 23 of 37
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,074member
    Who's going to mass produce Micro-LED panels?
    Its going to be a while before they really have this working.    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.    
    Samsung will probably make a nice little profit off these OLED screen.
  • Reply 24 of 37
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,074member


    Interestingly, Kuo still seems unsure as to whether the next iPhone will have a fingerprint sensor. In Wednesday's note, he suggested that Apple "may abandon" its Touch ID technology in favor of the OLED display, but stopped short of saying definitively that it has been removed from the handset, which will be revealed in less than a week.

    "We believe 3D Touch module could be unfavorable for scan-through performance of under-display fingerprint recognition," Kuo said, "which is one of the main reasons why OLED iPhone may abandon fingerprint recognition."

    This is why I think that next year they will have the TouchID working through both the OLED and LCD screens. Qualcomm announced they had it work (just not good).
  • Reply 25 of 37
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    iPhone Edition?
     My guess is iPhone X.
    The problem iPhone X ("ten") and iPhone 8 is that it creates the obvious dilemma: "What happened to iPhone 9?"
    It won't be called iPhone Ten.

    Its called iPhone X (ecks)

    Its a new generation of phone, not the number 10.

    Next year we get the iPhone X1,  then year after that iPhone X2
    I say drop the numbering altogether:

    iPhone SE (4.")
    iPhone (4.7" & 5.5")
    iPhone X / Edition (5.8")
  • Reply 26 of 37
    A 9to5Mac report has a quote from a Foxconn exec claiming that the notch in display is causing poor yields, a 40% failure rate. The consideration for Edition name may mean "Limited Edition".
  • Reply 27 of 37
    foggyhill said:
    nhughes said:
    foggyhill said:
    nhughes said:
    Seems like a lot of speculation and not much else. Why do rumor sites give this guy so much attention?
    Because he has been the first to accurately report on many upcoming hardware decisions, including the expected OLED screen, glass back, and facial recognition capabilities of the "iPhone 8" way back in March of 2016:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/03/26/new-iphone-model-with-curved-glass-case-58-amoled-display-due-in-2017-insider-says

    And the 10.5-inch iPad Pro back in August of 2016:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/15/apple-to-debut-105-ipad-pro-in-2017-integrate-flexible-amoled-tech-in-2018

    And the new 9.7-inch entry-level iPad in January of this year:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/01/08/apple-on-track-to-launch-three-new-ipads-in-spring-2017-but-none-of-them-mini

    And the (alleged) $1000-and-up pricing of the "iPhone 8" this February:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/02/15/apples-iphone-8-to-replace-touch-id-home-button-with-function-area

    And the features and capabilities of HomePod in March:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/05/01/apples-siri-based-echo-competitor-to-carry-premium-price-feature-high-end-audio-with-1-woofer-7-tweeters

    Is his track record perfect? No, it's not. But nobody else out there provides, in terms of quantity, more accurate information on Apple's hardware pipeline than Ming-Chi Kuo. Not Gruber, not Gurman, not anyone else.
    If you announce a 1000 things a year. A few are bound to be right, either put siome stat out or stop pushing your narrative. Yoû're suffering from confirmation biad and cherry picking. 

    Also, he constantly revise his so called predictions  so how can he be wrong? He does that to everything he says ever; aka a crapshoot.

    he knows only remember the right guesses and not the wrong ones

    You're welcome to look through our past coverage and see for yourself. We cover his notes for a reason — because no one else provides more accurate and regular updates on upcoming hardware. That's really all there is to it.

    http://appleinsider.com/topic/ming-chi+kuo
    I've read the countless notes he publishes a year, one every week seemingly and every note is mostly wrong. Not half wrong, but almost all wrong in the end.

    If you publish a note that mentions 10 things on it (yes these things happen a lot), repeating mostly existing rumors, and 1 turns out right of your own and 3-4 other rumors pan out, you don't get a kudos for the whole lot (though many do that) and certainly not for your 10% hit rate.

    So, apply actual science, stat analysis and logic to your data cause seriously, that link provides no proof at all of what you purport.

    There is a great irony in you saying to "apply actual science" and "stat analysis" only a few paragraphs after you, yourself, made up a bunch of meaningless figures in an attempt to construct your argument.

    You don't like Kuo, clearly. I get that. That's fine. But he has a better track record than anyone else, and is a good source of details on future hardware plans. Software, not so much. Timing and pricing and sales, not so much. But hardware, yes. Feel free to "apply actual science" to it and you'll find that his batting average is better than most, if not all — and he swings more often, to boot.

    We will continue to report on him, and I have no doubt that you will continue to dislike him. And I have no problem with that.
    muthuk_vanalingamslprescottbeowulfschmidtgatorguy
  • Reply 28 of 37
    ...excoriating us.
    See, that's why I come here and read the articles and read the responses... learned a new word today!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 37
    "He suspects that the OLED displays for the "iPhone 8" cost Apple between $120 and $130 per unit -- well beyond the $45 to $55 per unit Apple is said to pay for the iPhone 7 Plus 5.5-inch LCD screen."

    So ... the site that is infamous for defending Apple's high-margin pricing strategy AND criticizing consumers for buying cheaper Microsoft, Android, Linux etc. alternatives AND attacking people who criticize Apple's fees (i.e. developers over the app store's 30% fee) AND attacking suppliers like Nokia, Qualcomm, the University of Wisconsin etc. for wanting Apple to pay practically nothing - or in fact nothing at all - for their IP (patent trolls they are called?) claiming that someone else is somehow fleecing Apple? This is rich.

    Consumer: "I have five kids and elderly grandparents to take care of on a blue collar salary. I can't afford an iPhone, iPad and a Mac. I need to get an Android phone, Android tablet and a Windows PC instead and pay 75% less in the process." Apple Insider fans reply: "You are a horrible, terrible, very bad, no good, evil immoral person!

    These are the same people who don't want Apple to have to pay $60 dollars more to benefit from what is clearly superior tech from the only company in the world that is able to supply it to them (because they, er, invented it). Amazing ...
    You're reading a lot into an article simply reporting what an analyst said.  Also, the most prevalent argument for the cost of Apple products I've heard made here by Apple Insider commenters is that you get what you pay for.  IPhones, for example, tend to have a longer usable life and higher resale value, both of which contribute to a lower total cost of ownership.  Also, your hypothetical parent of five kids is certainly free to buy non-Apple products.  The problem isn't which products you buy/use, its coming here to an Apple-centric site and claiming things Apple Insider commenters, as a whole, are not guilty of, and having made that claim, excoriating us.
    Indeed. If only there were a name for such a tactic...oh yes, trolling! As the event nears we’ll see a lot more of them, until their manic cries crescendo with the day of and night of the announcement.
    edited September 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 37
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    iPhone Edition?
     My guess is iPhone X.
    The problem iPhone X ("ten") and iPhone 8 is that it creates the obvious dilemma: "What happened to iPhone 9?"
    It won't be called iPhone Ten.

    Its called iPhone X (ecks)

    Its a new generation of phone, not the number 10.

    Next year we get the iPhone X1,  then year after that iPhone X2
    Nope. Too techie gimmicky, which is why we’re reading it on a techie forum. 
    pscooter63
  • Reply 31 of 37
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    nhughes said:
    foggyhill said:
    nhughes said:
    foggyhill said:
    nhughes said:
    Seems like a lot of speculation and not much else. Why do rumor sites give this guy so much attention?
    Because he has been the first to accurately report on many upcoming hardware decisions, including the expected OLED screen, glass back, and facial recognition capabilities of the "iPhone 8" way back in March of 2016:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/03/26/new-iphone-model-with-curved-glass-case-58-amoled-display-due-in-2017-insider-says

    And the 10.5-inch iPad Pro back in August of 2016:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/15/apple-to-debut-105-ipad-pro-in-2017-integrate-flexible-amoled-tech-in-2018

    And the new 9.7-inch entry-level iPad in January of this year:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/01/08/apple-on-track-to-launch-three-new-ipads-in-spring-2017-but-none-of-them-mini

    And the (alleged) $1000-and-up pricing of the "iPhone 8" this February:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/02/15/apples-iphone-8-to-replace-touch-id-home-button-with-function-area

    And the features and capabilities of HomePod in March:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/05/01/apples-siri-based-echo-competitor-to-carry-premium-price-feature-high-end-audio-with-1-woofer-7-tweeters

    Is his track record perfect? No, it's not. But nobody else out there provides, in terms of quantity, more accurate information on Apple's hardware pipeline than Ming-Chi Kuo. Not Gruber, not Gurman, not anyone else.
    If you announce a 1000 things a year. A few are bound to be right, either put siome stat out or stop pushing your narrative. Yoû're suffering from confirmation biad and cherry picking. 

    Also, he constantly revise his so called predictions  so how can he be wrong? He does that to everything he says ever; aka a crapshoot.

    he knows only remember the right guesses and not the wrong ones

    You're welcome to look through our past coverage and see for yourself. We cover his notes for a reason — because no one else provides more accurate and regular updates on upcoming hardware. That's really all there is to it.

    http://appleinsider.com/topic/ming-chi+kuo
    I've read the countless notes he publishes a year, one every week seemingly and every note is mostly wrong. Not half wrong, but almost all wrong in the end.

    If you publish a note that mentions 10 things on it (yes these things happen a lot), repeating mostly existing rumors, and 1 turns out right of your own and 3-4 other rumors pan out, you don't get a kudos for the whole lot (though many do that) and certainly not for your 10% hit rate.

    So, apply actual science, stat analysis and logic to your data cause seriously, that link provides no proof at all of what you purport.

    There is a great irony in you saying to "apply actual science" and "stat analysis" only a few paragraphs after you, yourself, made up a bunch of meaningless figures in an attempt to construct your argument.

    You don't like Kuo, clearly. I get that. That's fine. But he has a better track record than anyone else, and is a good source of details on future hardware plans. Software, not so much. Timing and pricing and sales, not so much. But hardware, yes. Feel free to "apply actual science" to it and you'll find that his batting average is better than most, if not all — and he swings more often, to boot.

    We will continue to report on him, and I have no doubt that you will continue to dislike him. And I have no problem with that.
    YOU ARE MAKING THE CLAIM THAT HE IS WELL CONNECTED.  YOU ARE THE "NEWS SITE".
    you should provide this proof, not me. Your link isn't that proof and you know it.

    His notes though shows he bullshits almost to absurdity on Apple strategy ( hw timing decisions, supplier choices, etc) financials and pricing.
    The reasons he uses for correcting his old predictions are the worse  (Apple decided to switch this or that, 1-3 months before product release).
    But, oh, despite being wrong (lying in my own assessment) on all those things (he's not calling those things opinions by the way but actual info he got ); lets trust him on hardware.
    That's the eminently "logical" thing to do when people get so much wrong from their sources: believe their info coming from the same or other sources.
    .
    Since you called me out, you must of course have all those numbers handy.
    A) Tell exact number of ALL the individual predictions (from the notes), their status.  Should be a nice low number... (or ahem, not).
    B ) All the ones that turned out true and he was first (no rumors ANYWHERE with proof to that effect) to report that he didn't change even once during the year (cause hw decisions are made a long time in advance and if he's really "well connected" there would be no constant change).
    The ratio of A/B should be very low for Mr. well connected, very low indeed if words mean anything.

    I'll probably have to run my own tally on every one of his countless predictions and ludicrous claims to actually
    get those results since I don't believe any "news" site using his notes actually gives a crap beyond having convenient clickbait copy.

    One thing he's a master of is PR, if not actual data. I'll give him that.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 32 of 37
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,625moderator
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    iPhone Edition?
     My guess is iPhone X.
    The problem iPhone X ("ten") and iPhone 8 is that it creates the obvious dilemma: "What happened to iPhone 9?"
    It won't be called iPhone Ten.

    Its called iPhone X (ecks)

    Its a new generation of phone, not the number 10.

    Next year we get the iPhone X1,  then year after that iPhone X2
    If Apple ever names a product iPhone X1 I'll renounce my moderator status, self-ban for a year from posting any comments and recommend Sog35 to replace me.  
    watto_cobragatorguy
  • Reply 33 of 37
    sog35 said:
    Interestingly, Kuo still seems unsure as to whether the next iPhone will have a fingerprint sensor. 
    No, that is not what he said, and that is not the way others are reporting this same information. I understand you refuse to accept this reality about Touch ID, but it's time.

    If you want to keep calling it iPhone 8 (instead of iPhone Edition) until next week, and keep pretending it might have Touch ID (which it doesn't)...fine. Just know that means your articles will be the least accurate out there for the next 6 days.
    iPhone Edition?

    I will be shocked if that's what they call it.

    Then prepare to be shocked because that is what it is called.
    9to5mac already reported that an extremely reputable case manufacturer leaked them info that they are preparing case SKUs referencing iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, and iPhone Edition. At this stage, and the way it was reported, by Seth Weintraub who rarely weighs in unless he has something he's confident in, you can take that to the bank.
  • Reply 34 of 37
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,586administrator
    sog35 said:
    Interestingly, Kuo still seems unsure as to whether the next iPhone will have a fingerprint sensor. 
    No, that is not what he said, and that is not the way others are reporting this same information. I understand you refuse to accept this reality about Touch ID, but it's time.

    If you want to keep calling it iPhone 8 (instead of iPhone Edition) until next week, and keep pretending it might have Touch ID (which it doesn't)...fine. Just know that means your articles will be the least accurate out there for the next 6 days.
    iPhone Edition?

    I will be shocked if that's what they call it.

    Then prepare to be shocked because that is what it is called.
    9to5mac already reported that an extremely reputable case manufacturer leaked them info that they are preparing case SKUs referencing iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, and iPhone Edition. At this stage, and the way it was reported, by Seth Weintraub who rarely weighs in unless he has something he's confident in, you can take that to the bank.
    The same day, a different case manufacturer, at the same venue, called it the iPhone X. Bottom line is, Apple knows what the name is, but nobody else does. There's another report today claiming iPhone X, and we're looking into that one. 

    This is the story about 9to5's account from a case manufacturer who guesses the same as everybody else, and another from a different case manufacturer the same day.


    So, basically, settle down a little. You don't need to be so hostile. We'll all find out together.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 35 of 37
    ksecksec Posts: 1,568member
    A 9to5Mac report has a quote from a Foxconn exec claiming that the notch in display is causing poor yields, a 40% failure rate. The consideration for Edition name may mean "Limited Edition".
    Yes, and the post has since been deleted from Weibo. There are only one company who does the Notch cutting, and that is Sharp, and guess who owns Sharp now? Foxconn.

    Foxconn and Apple are working their head off trying to figure out how to perfect this.

    So the problem is two fold, one there simply isn't that much quality OLED panel from Samsung, ( Remember Samsung being the only mobile OLED producer capable of making any decent OLED panel up to Apple's standard ), and the yield of cutting that notch into shape.

    I hope Apple will explain and justify that design decision in the event, that surely adds huge amount of cost for reason i could not comprehend, not to mention it looks ugly.

  • Reply 36 of 37
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,693member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    iPhone Edition?
     My guess is iPhone X.
    The problem iPhone X ("ten") and iPhone 8 is that it creates the obvious dilemma: "What happened to iPhone 9?"
    It won't be called iPhone Ten.

    Its called iPhone X (ecks)

    Its a new generation of phone, not the number 10.

    Next year we get the iPhone X1,  then year after that iPhone X2
    If Apple ever names a product iPhone X1 I'll renounce my moderator status, self-ban for a year from posting any comments and recommend Sog35 to replace me.  
    LOL!

    I actually agreed with Sog35 on this one although I don't go so far as to claim it absolutely will be called iPhone X. 

    I prefer iPhone X to anything with 'Edition' in it and hope you re-think your plan if it happens. :-).

    I know what you mean in not liking it, but 'X' has appeal to me even after so many years with Mac OS X. Perhaps it doesn't win in the originality stakes but I'd take it over anything with edition in it.
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