Apple considering 'Full Active' LCDs from Japan Display for 2018 iPhones

Posted:
in iPhone
Apple is reportedly considering "Full Active" LCDs by Japan Display for use in some of next year's iPhones, perhaps supporting views it will make a slow transition to OLED.

Xiaomi's Mi Mix 2, which uses a Full Active LCD.
Xiaomi's Mi Mix 2, which uses a Full Active LCD.


The company has "expressed interest" in buying Full Active panels, according to sources for the Wall Street Journal. The technology is marketed as matching or beating aspects of OLED at a lower cost, which could be critical in keeping Apple profits high and/or end prices down.

Full Active panels are flexible, with bezels as small as 0.5 millimeters, about half that of OLED. Flexibility is typically considered one of the core advantages of OLED, along with extreme constrast and lower power consumption, since pixels can selectively illuminate.

Full Active LCDs are already being used in some smartphones, such as Xiaomi's Mi Mix 2, which sports an edge-to-edge screen like the OLED-based iPhone X and Samsung Galaxy Note 8.

The main obstacle to Apple's adoption of OLED is production capacity. The iPhone X is expected to depend entirely on Samsung-made OLED panels, since other suppliers can't yet manufacture on the scale Apple requires. More suppliers and capacity would push parts costs down, making it possible to use OLED on phones below the iPhone X's $999 pricetag.

Rumors have hinted that Apple could produce a 6-inch-plus LCD iPhone in 2018, which might ship alongside 5.85- and/or 6.46-inch OLED hardware. Cross-lineup use of OLED may have to wait until 2019, when LG should be ready to meet Apple demand.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,543member
    Too soon to talk about next year's iPhone. But if Apple is close to making under screen touch id working than with full active LCD for iPhone 8s is a good candidate for edge to edge screen like iPhone X. This provides Apple two parallel iPhone series with spreading features and price. Same time gives customers choice and affordability benefit.
    macplusplus
  • Reply 2 of 32
    How do they compare in contrast ratio and other specifications to OLED?
  • Reply 3 of 32
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,668member
    Good. I've always thought that OLED was an over fetished technology. 
    calimacplusplus
  • Reply 4 of 32
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    edited September 2017 tshapi
  • Reply 5 of 32
    "Full Active panels are flexible, with bezels as small as 0.5 millimeters, about half that of OLED. Flexibility is typically considered one of the core advantages of OLED, along with extreme constrast and lower cost..."

    Just perfect for Apple management!  Just hope in 2018 they bring up the screen resolution in the smaller Apple phones and all the iPads to 1080p from 720i/p.   Yes, I known Retina is still all the human eye can see but what if you are a superhuman with better vision?  These are writing down the screen resolution to save in battery but their A12 in 2018 will only take 60% of the power that the A11 uses now!  And how about adding double the RAM too to 4GB?  Yes it will cost additional $30 more but you can charge additional $150 for that option and Apple can make even more $$$$!  Sincec$1K is now the standard price for iPhones except for the budget iPhones (6S, 7 and SE) according to AT&T sales guy!  LOL!
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 6 of 32
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,116member
    I just really hope the base model won't retain 750p, it's not enough for me. I can see jaggies around icons and notification dots and text just on the home screen on my 7. 

    1080p would be overkill for 4.7", but 900p at least would be nice, have a similar PPI to the Plus. It would have to do the downscaling dance the Plus does, but the Plus already does with the same chip, and that would be another chip down. 
    repressthis
  • Reply 7 of 32
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member
    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    No phone in existence has an edge to edge display.

    But the X is the only phone that has 4 corners that are near bezeless.

    1. The Samsung's have relatively thick top and bottom bezels
    2. The MiMix has a thick bottom bezel


    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
  • Reply 8 of 32
    melgross said:
    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    No phone in existence has an edge to edge display.

    But the X is the only phone that has 4 corners that are near bezeless.

    1. The Samsung's have relatively thick top and bottom bezels
    2. The MiMix has a thick bottom bezel


    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
    Where is this defined? I’d always thought it meant the entire screen, not just the left and right sides.
    bb-15watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 32
    The company has
    "expressed interest" in buying Full Active panels, according to sources for the Wall Street Journal. The technology is marketed as matching or beating aspects of OLED at a lower cost, which could be critical in keeping Apple profits high and/or end prices down.
    There is another key reason and that is to lessen the dependency upon Samsung for ... well just about anything.
    If LG can't come up trumps with an OLED display it is good to have this as a Plan B waiting in the wings.

  • Reply 10 of 32
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member
    melgross said:
    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    No phone in existence has an edge to edge display.

    But the X is the only phone that has 4 corners that are near bezeless.

    1. The Samsung's have relatively thick top and bottom bezels
    2. The MiMix has a thick bottom bezel


    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
    Where is this defined? I’d always thought it meant the entire screen, not just the left and right sides.
    No, while there’s no,”official” standard, just go to articles and reviews. It’s more of a defacto definition. Everyone states that the Samsung’s have edge to edge screens. Well, maybe a small few who don’t want to acknowledge it, don’t. When talking about the forehead and chin, they’re referred to as the top forehead, and bottom chin. I suppose if you look around, you can find someone talking about top,and bottom edges, but that just sounds strange,
  • Reply 11 of 32
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member

    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    No phone in existence has an edge to edge display.

    But the X is the only phone that has 4 corners that are near bezeless.

    1. The Samsung's have relatively thick top and bottom bezels
    2. The MiMix has a thick bottom bezel


    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
    That is not edge to edge either.

    The sides of those screens are useless (image distortion)
    It’s edge to edge whether useless or not. I’m not one for curved edges. My friend has a Samsung, and he puts it down on the table, face down, which almost no one does, just so he can show the sides flickering and coloring if a notification comes in. Samsung had big plans for the curved edges, but it never amounted to much.

    i’m not, by the way, offering criticism of the iPhone X edges, just saying that they’re not really edge to edge.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 12 of 32
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,171member
    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    No phone in existence has an edge to edge display.


    melgross said:
    sog35 said:

    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
    Where is this defined? I’d always thought it meant the entire screen, not just the left and right sides.
    melgross said:


    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
    Where is this defined? I’d always thought it meant the entire screen, not just the left and right sides.
    No, while there’s no,”official” standard, just go to articles and reviews. It’s more of a defacto definition. Everyone states that the Samsung’s have edge to edge screens. Well, maybe a small few who don’t want to acknowledge it, don’t. When talking about the forehead and chin, they’re referred to as the top forehead, and bottom chin. I suppose if you look around, you can find someone talking about top,and bottom edges, but that just sounds strange,
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/bezel-less-phone-comparison/
  • Reply 13 of 32
    melgross said:

    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    No phone in existence has an edge to edge display.

    But the X is the only phone that has 4 corners that are near bezeless.

    1. The Samsung's have relatively thick top and bottom bezels
    2. The MiMix has a thick bottom bezel


    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
    That is not edge to edge either.

    The sides of those screens are useless (image distortion)
    It’s edge to edge whether useless or not. I’m not one for curved edges. My friend has a Samsung, and he puts it down on the table, face down, which almost no one does, just so he can show the sides flickering and coloring if a notification comes in. Samsung had big plans for the curved edges, but it never amounted to much.

    i’m not, by the way, offering criticism of the iPhone X edges, just saying that they’re not really edge to edge.
    The distortion means for me and a lot of people it is not edge to edge in function, just esthetic. So, if form over function counts, indeed Samsung made it edge to edge...
    The distorted area is HUGE, bigger than the bezels of all flat phones.
  • Reply 14 of 32
    No generation of LCD can support 12-bit Rec.2100 Colour Gamuts while 14-bit, 16-bit are higher. Instead of using their patents yet existing on all the OLED, Quantum-Dots, microLED ..i.e Emmisive displays, they switch back to LCD, I would be considering a Samsung Galaxy. Why even make a move if things were still half-baked?
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 15 of 32
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member
    foggyhill said:
    melgross said:

    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    No phone in existence has an edge to edge display.

    But the X is the only phone that has 4 corners that are near bezeless.

    1. The Samsung's have relatively thick top and bottom bezels
    2. The MiMix has a thick bottom bezel


    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
    That is not edge to edge either.

    The sides of those screens are useless (image distortion)
    It’s edge to edge whether useless or not. I’m not one for curved edges. My friend has a Samsung, and he puts it down on the table, face down, which almost no one does, just so he can show the sides flickering and coloring if a notification comes in. Samsung had big plans for the curved edges, but it never amounted to much.

    i’m not, by the way, offering criticism of the iPhone X edges, just saying that they’re not really edge to edge.
    The distortion means for me and a lot of people it is not edge to edge in function, just esthetic. So, if form over function counts, indeed Samsung made it edge to edge...
    The distorted area is HUGE, bigger than the bezels of all flat phones.
    Well, it was to prove that they were the top OLED manufacturer, and that they could manufacture curved screens when no one else could. It also gave them a way to raise the price of their top phone by $100.

    they’ve since lessened the curve of their later models from the rather extreme one of the first generation.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 16 of 32
    ksecksec Posts: 1,567member
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    Unless I have missed it, I dont see any of your reply explain why iPhone X is not edge to edge. Or you mean Edge to Edge as in Samsung where the curve edge part of the phone is also part of the screen.

    The OLED by LG is called WOLED, which is basically white OLED backlight with colouring filter on top.They are the only one making these is simply because they invested lots into it and owns all the patents around it.

    The POLED that LG uses for phone ( POLED is the same as Samsung AMOLED, just different marketing names ) is utter crap. Look at those being used on the V30. Even if they magically improve next year, it is still VERY far off from Samsung quality.

    That is why I dont think the LG investment into more OLED pannel has anything to do with smartphone POLED, it is more likely OLED panel for Tv uses.

    And I think, hopefully as Apple will learn soon, Japan Display is a much better partner then Samsung Display. Hopefully they will switch the full range back to LCD.
  • Reply 17 of 32
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 283member
    Marketing slogans about what is a display without a bezel does not eliminate the plain meaning of words.
    A smartphone screen has 4 sides and therefore has 4 bezel areas.
    If a display removes 2 of 4 bezels, it still has the 2 top and bottom bezels. It is a bezeless screen only on 2 sides. 
    A screen with no bezels would include removing the top and bottom bezels. 

    * A common measurement is to calculate screen to body ratio. For instance the new Galaxy phones have a screen to body ratio in the 83% to 84% range. 84% does not = 100%.
    edited September 2017 StrangeDays
  • Reply 18 of 32
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member

    Avieshek said:
    No generation of LCD can support 12-bit Rec.2100 Colour Gamuts while 14-bit, 16-bit are higher. Instead of using their patents yet existing on all the OLED, Quantum-Dots, microLED ..i.e Emmisive displays, they switch back to LCD, I would be considering a Samsung Galaxy. Why even make a move if things were still half-baked?
    No matter what anybody says, OLEDs can not support HDR. In fact, Sony told me that their top $9,500 OLED Tv couldn’t support HDR, and that I would need one of their top LCD models, or one of several of their front projectors with an HDR screen.

    the same thing is true of phones.
  • Reply 19 of 32
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,030member
    melgross said:

    Avieshek said:
    No generation of LCD can support 12-bit Rec.2100 Colour Gamuts while 14-bit, 16-bit are higher. Instead of using their patents yet existing on all the OLED, Quantum-Dots, microLED ..i.e Emmisive displays, they switch back to LCD, I would be considering a Samsung Galaxy. Why even make a move if things were still half-baked?
    No matter what anybody says, OLEDs can not support HDR. In fact, Sony told me that their top $9,500 OLED Tv couldn’t support HDR, and that I would need one of their top LCD models, or one of several of their front projectors with an HDR screen.

    the same thing is true of phones.
    How does a Sony TV not supporting HDR equate to it being impossible for OLED to support HDR?
  • Reply 20 of 32
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 283member
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    It’s a shame that Samsung is the only manufacturer of high quality OLED panels for smartphones and tablets that can make them in large numbers. But it makes sense. There is no other Android OEM that sells flagship phones in the tens of millions each year. And the only other Android OEM that also makes OLEDs, LG, makes them for large screen TVs. And strangely enough, they are the only manufacturer of those large panels. They do cut small panels for their own flagship phones, but they aren’t very good, apparently.

    since Apple has a bunch of their own OLED patents, I’m REALLY curious how these Samsung panels for Apple will work. It’s interesting that we haven’t already gotten samples that have been tested, on the sly, so that photos of the pixels could be taken. Are these Pentile displays, or something else?

    also, the iPhone X doesn’t really have an edge to edge display.
    No phone in existence has an edge to edge display.

    But the X is the only phone that has 4 corners that are near bezeless.

    1. The Samsung's have relatively thick top and bottom bezels
    2. The MiMix has a thick bottom bezel


    The Samsung models have, for several years. Edge to edge means sides, not top and bottom.
    Where is this defined? I’d always thought it meant the entire screen, not just the left and right sides.
    No, while there’s no,”official” standard, just go to articles and reviews. It’s more of a defacto definition. Everyone states that the Samsung’s have edge to edge screens. Well, maybe a small few who don’t want to acknowledge it, don’t. When talking about the forehead and chin, they’re referred to as the top forehead, and bottom chin. I suppose if you look around, you can find someone talking about top,and bottom edges, but that just sounds strange,
    This seems very subjective to me. 
    Objectively, a screen without a bezel on the left and right edge is just that. It is talking about the bezel on two edges.
    A screen without a bezel would refer to all 4 edges. 
    StrangeDays
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