Apple and the future of photography in Depth: iPhone 8 Plus

Posted:
in iPhone edited October 2017
When iPhone launched ten years ago it took basic photos and no video. Apple has since rapidly advanced its capabilities in mobile photography to the point where iPhone is now globally recognized for its billboard-sized artwork and has been used to shoot feature length films for cinematic release. iOS 11 now achieves a new level of image capture with Depth. Here's a look at the future of photos, with a focus on new features debuted in iPhone 8 Plus.


Shot on iPhone billboards in Berlin, Germany


Across the history of Apple -- and in particular the last decade of iPhone -- the company has introduced a series of emerging new technologies into mainstream use. Many of these ideas had been researched, presented and even productized elsewhere first, including multitouch displays, electronic gyroscopes, accelerometer motion sensors and depth-sensing cameras.

Rather than just being first to market, Apple has repeatedly been first to mass market success, in part because it refines its work before release but also because it often targets a useful and practical real world application for the technologies it launches.

Note that Jeff Han, one of the first researchers to develop and present multiple-touch sensing, didn't bring the technology to mobile devices used by hundreds of millions of users the way Apple's iPhone did. Instead, he developed the idea along lines that resulted in big conference room screens that sell in the thousands -- even after being bought out by Microsoft and branded as the $9,000 and up Surface Hub.

As Han himself noted at its debut in 2007, "iPhone is absolutely gorgeous, and I've always said, if there ever were a company to bring this kind of technology to the consumer market, it's Apple."

Similarly, Apple's newest work in depth sensing cameras -- first introduced with iPhone 7 Plus last year and expanding on iPhone 8 Plus and the upcoming iPhone X --
has been experimented with in products ranging from the living room scale of Xbox Kinect to specially outfitted tablets associated with the Occipital Structure Sensor or Google's Project Tango.

But rather than being a fad game controller or an experimental niche tool, Apple's multiple forays into depth capture have brought the concept of distance-aware imaging into daily use by tens of millions of users, and will soon radically change how we use our mobile devices, from how we authenticate to how we communicate, visualize data and capture images and video.

Here's a look at how Apple's depth imaging strategy has been playing out over the past year, and where it's headed in the future.

iPhone 7 Plus: Dual Lenses with differential depth capture

Last year's iPhone 7 Plus introduced dual cameras with independent lenses. In retrospect, this feature (exclusive the the Plus model) not only attracted more iPhone buyers to the larger, more expensive Plus (earning Apple more money) but also enabled Apple to introduce a new technology faster than it otherwise could have if it only had one new iPhone model each year and was forced to compromise on the features it could build into a single product.

Previous generation iPhone 6/6s Plus models had similarly retained an exclusive camera feature that set them apart from the standard-sized, regular-priced iPhone: Optical Image Stabilization. OIS uses a ring of incredibly precise micro-motors around the lens that rapidly shift its position in tandem with data from motion sensors in order to counteract hand shake.

In particular OIS helps to capture better photos in low light situations, where the camera aperture needs to be open as wide and for as long as possible, making it especially sensitive to movement. However, OIS is not as visible of a feature and is harder to demonstrate compared to iPhone 7 Plus zoom.

The dual camera of iPhone 7 Plus ventured further into the potential for meaningfully enhancing photographs. It presented two lenses, designating one as the standard wide angle lens and the other as a 2x zoom lens, allowing you to get closer to a subject without losing image quality, whether taking a photo, movie, slo-mo, time-lapse or even a panorama.



The two lenses have independent camera sensors, but they can also work together. This enables smooth, incremental zooming that passes from the standard to the 2x optical camera sensor as the user adjusts the zoom level.

At its debut, Apple also teased an upcoming feature designed to pop dramatic attention on the subject using a bokeh effect. It would blur the background in the style of SLR cameras outfitted with a lens capable of capturing a narrow depth of field -- putting the Portrait subject of the foreground into dramatic focus while the background fades away.

It turned out to be a hit, as people loved the way it made their kids, pets and friends look as important in photos as the subjects felt to the photographer capturing them. Unlike the comical lens effects of Photo Booth or Snapchat, iOS 10 Portrait mode captured realistic, high quality images with a dramatic flair that not only flattered the subject but also made the photographer feel confident in their ability to capture great photos as well.

How Apple was capturing these Portrait images wasn't discussed in detail until WWDC17 this summer, when the company outlined that Portrait Mode wasn't the only trick the dual lens camera of iPhone 7 Plus could do. Apple described that in Portrait mode, the two lenses are both configured to capture an equivalent 2x image, each grabbing a slightly different angle of the subject.

Using differential depth processing -- which compares the differences of points in the two images to determine whether objects are near to the camera or far away in the background -- the two image sources can be used to create a depth map, a sort of 3D typographical layer of meta data that is paired with the original photo. The Portrait feature uses this data to identify what parts of the photo are distantly in the background, and can apply a blur effect on those areas.


iPhone 7 Plus image and its depth map depicted in greyscale


New in iOS 11, third parties can now use Apple's public Depth API to take a photo shot in Portrait and perform their own processing on specific layers. A simple example: desaturating the background so only the subject is in color.

Effectively any existing photo filter could be selectively applied to various depth layers of the image, at any threshold of depth. Portrait mode bokeh was quite literally the tip of the iceberg in terms of what depth capture can do.

As demonstrated in his WWDC17 presentation "Image Editing with Depth," Apple's Etienne Guerard showed how the depth map created by the rear dual camera could be visualized in 3D, and used to selectively apply filters or other effects to various parts of the photo.



By developing and highlighting one specific type of effect for Portrait Mode that worked really well, looked cool, was grounded in the real, creative world of SLR photography and was therefore of obvious value to iPhone users, Apple effectively marketed Portrait Mode as a compelling reason to buy iPhone 7 Plus.

If Apple had introduced the Plus dual camera as an experimental toolbox of various controls to create a myriad options, most users would likely have ignored it all as gimmicky complexity that in many cases just resulted in a doctored looking image.

iPhone 8 Plus: Portrait Lighting using A11 Bionic

In iOS 11, on iPhone 8 Plus and iPhone X, depth maps from the dual rear cameras are more detailed. The advanced new processing capacity of the A11 Bionic incorporates Apple's custom Image Signal Processing core used to analyze sensor data from the cameras. Its new Neural Net processing is specifically used to recognize and understand objects, faces and bodies as they move in a scene.

With this new processing power, the latest phones' Portrait Lighting feature lets users capture an image and not only apply the background bokeh effect, but also apply an intelligent lighting effect on the foreground, simulating a flattering light bounce card to highlight the subject's face, more dramatic lighting to frame their jawline, or a full blackout of the background to isolate the subject from background distractions entirely, giving them them appearance of being photographed on a studio stage in front of a black backdrop.

Portrait Lighting can take enhance a casual photo into a dramatic photograph
Portrait Lighting can take enhance a casual photo into a dramatic photograph


Again, rather than introducing a wide open toolbox of infinite depth options, Apple did the work to find a set of Portrait Lighting effects that would benefit a wide variety of users taking photos across a spectrum of circumstances, all inspired by professional photography and studio portraits artists.

Other vendors out of their depth

Other smartphones have been experimenting with dual real cameras for years. Way back in 2011 (as Apple showed off Siri on iPhone 4s) HTC and LG were showing off stereoscopic cameraphones that could capture 3D images and display them in 3D on the screen without requiring glasses. In parallel, 3D marketing hype hit HDTVs for months before consumers decided that they weren't really interested in the dizzying effects of 3D. Nobody is making 3D smartphones anymore.

Years later in 2014, the HTC One M8 debuted a dual camera system that could take two images, mix them to calculate a depth map, and use this to blur backgrounds or digitally refocus the image. Pocket Lint observed, "the effects were rather gimmicky and the benefits of having a dual camera didn't really make an impact."

Early last year LG introduced dual lenses, with one serving as a wide angle lens and the other being super wide to fit even more into the photo. However, the lens focal depth is fixed, making it impossible to use both together as a hybrid camera. Also, while a wide angle lens can be useful, a zoom is generally more practical.

Wide angle shots can be digitally simulated by taking a panorama; a 2x zoom panorama lets you create less distorted panos. It's therefore easier to functionally simulate a wide angle lens than a zoom lens (digital zoom sacrifices photo quality while a panorama can capture even greater detail than a standard photo).

Huawei recently collaborated with Leica to deliver a phone with two cameras, one dedicated to color data and one to monochromatic detail, in an attempt to mimic human vision to deliver better photographs. It's not clear that this approach really delivers improved photos however. A better approach seems to be enhancing the logic that handles focus, an area where Apple has (ahem) focused much of its efforts. Again, having two identical cameras with the same lens means you don't get zoom or wide angles.

Pixel 2: one camera better than two! At least for Google

Google's latest vanity Pixel 2 phone project mimics Apple's iPhone 7 Plus Portrait mode in creating a simulated bokeh effect using a single camera. CNET states that the phone uses a "dual-pixel design, which means that every pixel is split into two; there's a left and right sensor that capture a left and right photo."

Of course, physics and geometry mean that a single camera sensor would capture less accurate depth information than two cameras positioned further apart. It appears that Google is actually just recognizing a face and estimating what regions of hair and body are connected to it, defining these as the foreground and blurring the rest.Apple is also pursuing a series of efforts with machine learning and intelligent computer vision tools that work across all iOS 11 devices, along with even more advanced depth image capture specific to the upcoming iPhone X

The report cited Mario Queiroz, Google's GM and VP of phones, as saying that there was "nothing we're missing for that feature set with that camera," but in using a single rear camera and lens, it does not offer an optical zoom lens like iPhone 7/8 Plus models or the wide angle lens like LG's phone. It also does not attempt to perform more complex effects like the subject Portrait Lighting of iPhone 8 Plus.

It remains to be seen how Pixel's Portrait mode compares to last year's iPhone 7 Plus. But it appears that the real point of the single camera design primarily just makes the phone cheaper for Google to manufacture, at the expense of being able to do creative effects not just to a static photograph, but also in the depth processing effects iOS 11 can perform for video, as well as optical zoom.

In addition to the rear dual cameras of iPhone 7 Plus and iPhone 8 Plus, Apple is also pursuing a series of efforts with machine learning and intelligent computer vision tools that work across all iOS 11 devices, along with even more advanced depth image capture specific to the upcoming iPhone X, which the next article segment details.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 46
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,556member
    Hang on a minute, just sorting out some popcorn…
    iqatedoStrangeDaysrepressthiswatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 46
    I quite disagree with Daniel this time, regarding the Pixel 2's camera. If it works well for bokeh, then it is a smart implementation. It would be nice to have portrait mode on non-plus iPhone 7 and 8. But we'll have to wait to see if it works well. Google's track record for new features is far from perfect and it seems they really wanted to do this, so they probably would have implemented it even with so-so quality. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE FORMATTING THAT REMOVES ALL MY PARAGRAPH BREAKS.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 3 of 46
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,142member
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    Yes because nothing or no company can ever beat Apple or the iPhone at anything. Ever. 
  • Reply 4 of 46
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,108member
    On the few Pixel portrait samples available, I noticed some nasty treatment of the area around hair even at the low web resolutions.  It will be interesting to see the final product. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 46
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,012moderator
    It’s difficult to say this is one of your best articles, Dan.  Because almost all are excellent and many many levels above and beyond what pretty much anyone else out there writes.  But I found this one especially clarifying.  Just excellent work.
    2old4funrepressthiswatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 6 of 46
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,012moderator
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    StrangeDaysben20GG1repressthisOferpropodwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 7 of 46
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,012moderator
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    that little jab at the end was not necessary. That's below what a moderator should be
    I didn’t ask to be a moderator.  I’ll continue calling em as I see em, even if my status is revoked.  No skin off my back.  
    tmayStrangeDaysben20repressthiswatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 8 of 46
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,556member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    that little jab at the end was not necessary. That's below what a moderator should be
    I didn’t ask to be a moderator.  I’ll continue calling em as I see em, even if my status is revoked.  No skin off my back.  
    The jab was completely justified because he does think he knows better than Tim Cook. If he doesn’t like being called out on it then why’s he on the internet?
    StrangeDaysrepressthiswatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 46
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,012moderator
    sog35 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    that little jab at the end was not necessary. That's below what a moderator should be
    I didn’t ask to be a moderator.  I’ll continue calling em as I see em, even if my status is revoked.  No skin off my back.  
    The jab was completely justified because he does think he knows better than Tim Cook. If he doesn’t like being called out on it then why’s he on the internet?
    My original post said nothing of the sort.
    I didn’t say you said so in this thread.  It’s a view that comes across when reading your posts in aggregate.  
    StrangeDaysrepressthiswatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 46
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 902member
    sog35 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    that little jab at the end was not necessary. That's below what a moderator should be
    I didn’t ask to be a moderator.  I’ll continue calling em as I see em, even if my status is revoked.  No skin off my back.  
    The jab was completely justified because he does think he knows better than Tim Cook. If he doesn’t like being called out on it then why’s he on the internet?
    My original post said nothing of the sort.
    I didn’t say you said so in this thread.  It’s a view that comes across when reading your posts in aggregate.  
    Ive been admonished by an ex-moderator for commenting on his unpleasantness in aggregate. So I quit doing it. He had a point which I have taken. 

    I can’t help but but agree that you should hold yourself to a higher standard. If you can’t, perhaps you should consider passing the torch. 

    Sog is on my ignore list, so I certainly understand your frustration with him. Can’t stand him, myself. 
    gatorguytmayOferpropod
  • Reply 11 of 46
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,155member
    When will tech journalists stop referring to an increased depth of field as bokeh?  Bokeh is an artifact in the image caused by the diaphragm of a camera in specular highlights when the iris is at wide settings.  Thus it coincides with the same settings that also produce a shallow depth of field but they are not one and the same thing.  I see a shallow depth of field effect in these great new iPhones I do not see the software responsible producing any bokeh effects.  I am sure Apple could create artificial bokeh too if the wished but as of yet they haven't.  Meanwhile a whole generation of budding photographers are being given misleading information about DOF and bokeh, it is a shame.
    edited October 2017 gatorguyrepressthisDavidAlGregorywatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 46
    friedmudfriedmud Posts: 158member
    I think a lot of you are missing where Apple is headed.  The two cameras on the iPhones weren’t put there JUST for portrait mode... that just happens to be what they’re being used for right now.

    In reality, they were the first small step into the world of augmented reality (which Apple wants to play in BIG TIME).  Just “faking” bokeh with a single camera (like Google is doing) misses the whole point: if you want true depth sensing for AR you need two cameras (or something like the infrared dot array of the X).

    Portrait mode on iPhones is just the first application of AR from Apple.  They are going to continue to build in more and more and more AR capabilities into the phones over the next couple of years.  Apple loves to slowly drip out hardware features like this with limited use while they get the formula right and everyone keeps working away in the lab to perfect it.
    edited October 2017 RonnnieOGG1propodwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 46
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,155member
    friedmud said:
    I think a lot of you are missing where Apple is headed.  The two cameras on the iPhones weren’t put there JUST for portrait mode... that just happens to be what they’re being used for right now.

    In reality, they were the first small step into the world of augmented reality (which Apple wants to play in BIG TIME).  Just “faking” bokeh with a single camera (like Google is doing) misses the whole point: if you want true depth sensing for AR you need two cameras (or something like the infrared dot array of the X).

    Portrait mode on iPhones is just the first application of AR from Apple.  They are going to continue to build in more and more and more AR capabilities into the phones over the next couple of years.  Apple loves to slowly drip out hardware features like this with limited use while they get the formula right and everyone keeps working away in the lab to perfect it.
    I agree except they could create artificial bokeh, which currently they don't, even with a single lens.  They would just have to create a defraction pattern on specular highlights and emulate something like a high end Canon L lens' look.  To my point just about any half decent DSLR / SLR / M lens with a wide aperture can create a shallow DOF but few create silky smooth bokeh on the specular highlights well, hence using top end lenses as the model.  I am sure the Knoll brothers could assist in this.
    edited October 2017 gatorguy
  • Reply 14 of 46
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,155member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    that little jab at the end was not necessary. That's below what a moderator should be
    I didn’t ask to be a moderator.  I’ll continue calling em as I see em, even if my status is revoked.  No skin off my back.  
    The jab was completely justified because he does think he knows better than Tim Cook. If he doesn’t like being called out on it then why’s he on the internet?
    My original post said nothing of the sort.
    I didn’t say you said so in this thread.  It’s a view that comes across when reading your posts in aggregate.  
    So will you take a jab at me for every post in the future? Regardless if the post deserve it or not?  Seems harsh.

    Anyway, I sold 100% of my Apple shares today. I'm 100% out.  

    That the Pixel2 beat out the iPhone camera is disturbing.  So much so that I dumped all my Apple shares. Been holding since 2012.
    Wow.  That was bold but you made a very nice profit.  We saw a 30%+ gain last year alone.  Are you on the way to a tax haven now?  ;)
    edited October 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 46
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,116member
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    Apple stock is down $1 today, so Sog35 is predictably shitting his pants and trolling thread after thread. 

    PS- Google has billions too, you moron. 
    edited October 2017 StrangeDaysradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 46
    jeromec said:
    I quite disagree with Daniel this time, regarding the Pixel 2's camera. If it works well for bokeh, then it is a smart implementation. It would be nice to have portrait mode on non-plus iPhone 7 and 8. But we'll have to wait to see if it works well. Google's track record for new features is far from perfect and it seems they really wanted to do this, so they probably would have implemented it even with so-so quality. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE FORMATTING THAT REMOVES ALL MY PARAGRAPH BREAKS.
    The article doesn't say the Pixel 2 isn't "smart," it points out that even if single camera Portrait mode works well for photos, it may not work for depth video, does not attempt to do (as demonstrated) effects like Portrait Lighting, and obviously can't do optical zoom or other real lens effects.

    There are already apps that can create a fake bokeh effect on photos, but when you fake optical zoom (digitally), image quality goes down rapidly. Google addressed one feature of the dual camera 7 Plus without taking about the other advantages. Sure, compared to the standard 7 the Pixel 2 has a unique feature. But it's also nearly the same price, slower, looks cheap, and won't get similar app support because Pixel is a tiny figment of phone market share. Developers will target generic Android, and will ship adware not high quality paid apps.
    repressthiswatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,124member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    that little jab at the end was not necessary. That's below what a moderator should be
    I didn’t ask to be a moderator.  I’ll continue calling em as I see em, even if my status is revoked.  No skin off my back.  
    but you are in a position of authority if you believe it or not.

    taking little jabs at posters is not a good look for a moderator

    My original comment contained nothing that deserved such a jab. I simply said I was disappointed that the Pixel2 camera got a higher score
    Come off it man. You are CONSTANTLY pretending you know more than Cook and have called for his firing dozens of times. You're the biggest troll on this entire site, second only to Ben Frost. If you can't deal with the blowback from saying stupid shit every single day, then take a break from the keyboard and try to figure out why everyone believes you're full of garbage. 

    Stop whining.
    RonnnieORayz2016tjwolfrepressthiswatto_cobrapropodbrucemc
  • Reply 18 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,124member

    polymnia said:
    sog35 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    that little jab at the end was not necessary. That's below what a moderator should be
    I didn’t ask to be a moderator.  I’ll continue calling em as I see em, even if my status is revoked.  No skin off my back.  
    The jab was completely justified because he does think he knows better than Tim Cook. If he doesn’t like being called out on it then why’s he on the internet?
    My original post said nothing of the sort.
    I didn’t say you said so in this thread.  It’s a view that comes across when reading your posts in aggregate.  
    Ive been admonished by an ex-moderator for commenting on his unpleasantness in aggregate. So I quit doing it. He had a point which I have taken. 

    I can’t help but but agree that you should hold yourself to a higher standard. If you can’t, perhaps you should consider passing the torch. 

    Sog is on my ignore list, so I certainly understand your frustration with him. Can’t stand him, myself. 
    So now we have to protect trolls as special snowflakes? WTF. The dude is a troll. If he doesn't like being reminded and called on his absurd proclamations, then he shouldn't be on the internet. 

    No, the mods dont have to treat this site's worst troll with snowflake gloves. Enough of that already, we are supposed to be accountable adults.
    RonnnieOrepressthiswatto_cobrabrucemc
  • Reply 19 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,124member

    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Apple is being compared to others on a set of criteria and tests that don’t really plumb the depths of what’s going on.  Daniel’s illumination regarding how the Pixel does brokah effects versus iPhone is a good example.  Apple is about applying technology to build foundational capabilities, whereas their competition is about following along which a checklist.  “Yup, we’ve got that feature too.  Check!”  

    But, of course, you know this, right?  You’re the one who always knows better than Tim Cook.  
    that little jab at the end was not necessary. That's below what a moderator should be
    I didn’t ask to be a moderator.  I’ll continue calling em as I see em, even if my status is revoked.  No skin off my back.  
    The jab was completely justified because he does think he knows better than Tim Cook. If he doesn’t like being called out on it then why’s he on the internet?
    My original post said nothing of the sort.
    I didn’t say you said so in this thread.  It’s a view that comes across when reading your posts in aggregate.  
    Anyway, I sold 100% of my Apple shares today. I'm 100% out.  

    That the Pixel2 beat out the iPhone camera is disturbing.  So much so that I dumped all my Apple shares. Been holding since 2012.
    How about a screenshot of this historic moment in your financial life?

    I call bullshit, because only a complete idiot would sell his shares over a recent third-party camera ranking.
    edited October 2017 tjwolfwatto_cobrabrucemc
  • Reply 20 of 46

    sog35 said:
    Hard to believe that the lowly Pixel beats the iPhone camera again.

    Come on Tim.  You have billions. YOu should EASILY beat every camera on the market.

    Yet DXO has the Pixel2 a higher rating than the 8 Plus.
    DXOmark does not provide some clear benchmark for mobile photography, as many people from Jon Gruber to Android Central have pointed out. Google "DXOmark worthless" and you'll get lots of detailed reasons why.

    https://www.quora.com/What-is-DXOMark-rating

    The fact that Google has now twice hid Pixel behind a DXOMark score rather than putting its work out there for examination tells you all you need to know. 

    Google has done great things with imaging, and has even shipped useful photo features for iOS. Using one (very flawed) score to decide that Pixel 2 (a phone that will ship in inconsequential volumes, just like every Nexus and Pixel product ever introduced) is somehow better overall than iPhone 8 or X (which will be the world's top selling phone models, again, at prices well above any other maker) should cause you to pause and think a little bit. 
    tmaybadmonkrepressthisStrangeDayswatto_cobrabrucemc
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