Google's Pixel 2 XL priced higher than Apple's iPhone 8 Plus but is half as fast, lacks ma...

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  • Reply 41 of 148
    nhtnht Posts: 4,204member
    jbdragon said:

    I just really find it funny that Google just 1 year ago on last models phones where bashing APple for not having a Headphone jack, and now here they are with no headphone jack. They have a Adapter that's more then DOUBLE the price of Apple's at $20, to Apple's $9. Worse they don't even include some headphones. I mean really??? A so called Premium phone, and all they do is throw in a over priced Adapter. HAHAHAHAHA You're paying more for less. What happened in this new warped world where Google's hardware costs are worse then Apple?
    Android zealots are so anti-Apple that in many ways it deeply resembles politics in America. 

    Likewise, quite a few folks here are so anti-Google that Apple working with Google in any way doesn't compute.

    Based on the folks I know at Google and Apple, there is a level of shared respect among elites despite the rivalry that the rabid fans don't get and never will because they won't ever be elites at anything...

    The folks that work at Google and Apple are some of the very best tech folks in the country.  Their suckiest tech contributions are far better than DED's best.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 42 of 148
    So let me get this straight.  You're comparing the price of the xl to the 8 plus but ignoring the fact that iPhone 8 is more expensive than the pixel and the iPhone x is more expensive than the xl.  
    edited October 2017 maxxe123techrules
  • Reply 43 of 148
    nht said:
    jbdragon said:

    I just really find it funny that Google just 1 year ago on last models phones where bashing APple for not having a Headphone jack, and now here they are with no headphone jack. They have a Adapter that's more then DOUBLE the price of Apple's at $20, to Apple's $9. Worse they don't even include some headphones. I mean really??? A so called Premium phone, and all they do is throw in a over priced Adapter. HAHAHAHAHA You're paying more for less. What happened in this new warped world where Google's hardware costs are worse then Apple?
    Android zealots are so anti-Apple that in many ways it deeply resembles politics in America. 

    Likewise, quite a few folks here are so anti-Google that Apple working with Google in any way doesn't compute.

    Based on the folks I know at Google and Apple, there is a level of shared respect among elites despite the rivalry that the rabid fans don't get and never will because they won't ever be elites at anything...

    The folks that work at Google and Apple are some of the very best tech folks in the country.  Their suckiest tech contributions are far better than DED's best.
    I've made more money than Project Ara.  :D
    tmaycaliradarthekatjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 148
    Just FYI: "But unlike many Android flagships, the Pixel's battery is not removable" isn't really true anymore, in fact I can't remember the last Android flagship that had a removable battery...probably something from LG
    techrules
  • Reply 45 of 148
    tcasper said:
    Sorry nice try... but [...snip...] The highly marketed "strongest glass on any smartphone" shattered more than the glass on the galaxy s8:
    It shattered stronger than the galaxy s8. 
  • Reply 46 of 148
    tcasper said:
    Sorry nice try... but crapple products suck.

    Go the fuck back to reddit where you belong. You may not have noticed, but this is a forum–a proper one–in the vein of the successors to IRC and BBS. We demand a higher caliber of discussion here.

    …you can back up UNLIMITED 4k full resolution pics and vids on google, something apple would never do because they are notorious for being greedy…

    Yes, whereas Google is a bastion of morality, aren't they? Unlimited photos; they only want THE SUM TOTAL OF EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER DONE to be put into their algorithm so they can find out what it's seeing, where it is, who's in it, and–most importantly–WHAT THEY'RE DOING in the photo. Here's your master. Lap up his words like the good little chattel you are.


    calijony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 148
    GG1GG1 Posts: 200member
    rrrob said:
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    At least the Pixel phones have a better industrial design than the Moto X.

    Well, the daughter board of the (HTC) Pixel is still poorly designed and archaic compared to what Apple has been doing since the start of the iPhone.

    In case you don't you don't look at teardowns here's the iPhone 8 logic board for comparison. Can you spot the difference?


    Strictly speaking, none of the above is industrial design, albeit the industrial design of the external package has a great influence on these circuit board designs, especially at Apple. 
    There are pros and cons to both the Moto X and Apple circuit board designs. TL;DR—in my opinion, they reflect their companies' respective economic situations, i.e., Apple can afford to use a smaller circuit board because it's making a premium-tier product with a high profit margin, and because that product sells in high volume.

    Moto X Pros:
    • (Mostly) single-sided. The vast majority of the parts can be attached to the board in a single pass through placement and reflow (soldering), putting less thermal stress on the components. It also provides additional volume for the battery under the circuit board and better physical isolation of RF-sensitive circuit blocks.
    • Slightly more surface area, even given the single side used for most parts. This permits the use of larger and easier to place—and hence, cheaper—components. It could also act as a larger heat sink for heat dissipation.
    • Fewer board layers. A number are still needed to accommodate pinout from high pin density parts like the Snapdragon, but there's more area to work with on each layer to route traces. And fewer layers make for cheaper panels.
    • Good balance of the phone in the hand is easier to achieve since the mass of the battery and circuit board are more evenly distributed across the surface of the phone.
    Moto X Cons:
    • Fewer circuit boards per panel. This means a greater number of circuit board panels must be processed to build an equivalent number of circuit boards, which could reduce factory throughput. The effect this has on price per circuit board is unclear without knowing the exact stack-up of the Motorola and Apple boards.
    iPhone Pros:
    • Double-sided panel with tightly packed components enables an incredibly small circuit board. More boards per panel means better factory throughput. The narrower the board, the more volume that's available for the battery, too.
    iPhone Cons:
    • Doubled-sided. Two major passes through component placement as well as reflow required.
    • Intra-board trace layout must be a nightmare. There are hundreds of traces coming out from the pins of the A11 alone which much be routed to memory, SIM, Lightning connector, cameras, display, Touch ID, etc. This also complicates resolving RF desense issues during development (as in, "Why can't you just move that part/trace/via over there?")
    • More board layers to accommodate the traces for those high pin density components like the A11. More layers equals higher cost circuit board panels.
    • High part density and small components necessitate high-precision solder masking and part placement, i.e., newer, more expensive factory equipment. Heat dissipation also becomes more of an issue.
    • Phone balancing becomes trickier with the circuit board and the battery side-by-side.
    iPhone Cons:

        Doubled-sided. Two major passes through component placement as well as reflow required.
        Intra-board trace layout must be a nightmare. There are hundreds of traces coming out from the pins of the A11 alone which much be routed to memory, SIM, Lightning connector, cameras, display, Touch ID, etc. This also complicates resolving RF desense issues during development (as in, "Why can't you just move that part/trace/via over there?")

    >>>>True, but obviously Apple engineers have succeeded repeatedly year-after-year with highly density iPhone & iPad PCB's. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple are using one of several special (extra cost) PCB construction techniques to achieve the equally high density inner trace routing.

        More board layers to accommodate the traces for those high pin density components like the A11. More layers equals higher cost circuit board panels.

    >>>>And Apple don't mind paying a premium for it, either. It achieves their goals of a thin phone.

        High part density and small components necessitate high-precision solder masking and part placement, i.e., newer, more expensive factory equipment. Heat dissipation also becomes more of an issue.

    >>>>Samsung and others use the same small components necessitating the same high-precision parts placement. Solder masking isn't even used anymore in very small components (it is printed directly on the PCB).

    tmayrrrobwatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 148
    nhtnht Posts: 4,204member
    nht said:
    jbdragon said:

    I just really find it funny that Google just 1 year ago on last models phones where bashing APple for not having a Headphone jack, and now here they are with no headphone jack. They have a Adapter that's more then DOUBLE the price of Apple's at $20, to Apple's $9. Worse they don't even include some headphones. I mean really??? A so called Premium phone, and all they do is throw in a over priced Adapter. HAHAHAHAHA You're paying more for less. What happened in this new warped world where Google's hardware costs are worse then Apple?
    Android zealots are so anti-Apple that in many ways it deeply resembles politics in America. 

    Likewise, quite a few folks here are so anti-Google that Apple working with Google in any way doesn't compute.

    Based on the folks I know at Google and Apple, there is a level of shared respect among elites despite the rivalry that the rabid fans don't get and never will because they won't ever be elites at anything...

    The folks that work at Google and Apple are some of the very best tech folks in the country.  Their suckiest tech contributions are far better than DED's best.
    I've made more money than Project Ara.  :D
    /shrug

    There was a lot of cool tech in Ara that was developed and none of that is lost.  They measurably moved the ball forward in terms of interconnects and protocols that will likely enable cool new things in the future.

    I met Regina Dugan once while she was still at DARPA.  Smart lady.  I knew a couple folks at ATAP including Johnny Lee (distantly from back when we were playing with the wii mote) who is really brilliant and Project Tango seems pretty successful even if overshadowed by ARCore.  If you knew anything about the underlying technology you'd be impressed with what Apple, Microsoft and Google have accomplished in this field.

    I've also had the pleasure of conversing with Vint Cerf as a colleague of mine worked with him on some things of mutual interest.  He's at Google and you may have heard of him.

    But you will never know such greatness and will not ever have advanced the ball forward by contributing anything meaningful like many of the wonderful folks at Google.  

    It's okay though, most folks don't.  

    They just aren't smug about it.


    muthuk_vanalingamtechrulesgatorguy
  • Reply 49 of 148
    great editorial, well crafted, clear cut, probably why there seems to be little debate.  As a long time Apple fan I've always said you get what you pay for, I now realize that does not apply w/ the Pixel 2.

    With all the customer information they've pilfered at their fingertips you'd think they could put their algorithms to proper work and at least find someone with a fraction of the skill set of Jony Ive, but that pretty much goes for the rest of the industry as well.

    I also fully concur with the "camera ranking firm", tech writers and their selective memory which rivals those of our current politicians.
    calimacky the mackywatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 148
    From some of my reading, it sure seems as though the Pixel 2 is supposedly a better smartphone than the iPhone 8 on a pure spec basis. The iPhone 8 is always being called archaic and that really makes me wonder what these critics are thinking. I agree that the iPhone 8 is based on an older design, but that hardly makes it archaic or ancient. However, the critics are totally dogging the iPhone 8 as being a has-been smartphone that doesn't deserve to be sold in 2017. To me, that's just crazy thinking. There's no way a high-end flagship smartphone should be considered archaic after only one year in service. However, I'm not putting down any flagship smartphones whether they're iPhones or Android-based. They all seem like very useful smartphones for most consumers despite the tech-critics always nitpicking about lacking some feature sets.

    I was looking at the comparison of circuit boards of the iPhone and Pixel. Apple's board certainly looks chock full of miniature tech, but I'm sure very few consumers will ever look inside of their smartphones. Wall Street's theory of a cheaper smartphone being good enough seems to rule the smartphone world. Apple gets absolutely no points for a designing a denser circuit board. Consumers in third-world countries are just happy to have affordable smartphones and I totally understand Google trying to serve that market.

    I'm sick of all these smartphone wars and the constant comparisons of hardware specs. Let people buy what they want. Consumers shouldn't be shamed into thinking they've got some really inferior device because it's lacking some optional features. Any run-of-the-mill smartphone is thousands of times more powerful than the computers used for the manned lunar landings. I love tech, but I'm not getting carried away by it. As a young teen, I had six-transistor portable AM radios and was happy to listen to them, so I can fully appreciate how far things have advanced. Calling a one-year-old flagship smartphone as being out-of-date and not worth having really saddens me.
    edited October 2017 muthuk_vanalingammarshdawgkiltedgreen
  • Reply 51 of 148
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,328member
    k2kw said:
    dev0120 said:
    I have the pixel XL and am considering the XL 2...my partner has the iPhone 7 plus and we would both tell you that my pixel XL is faster in every regards, the camera on the pixel is better, the pixel charges faster and the battery lasts WAY longer...there is no way my partner is getting the iPhone 8, he is considering the X...and btw, Siri sucks so bad compared to the Google Assistant

    All just my opinion of course
    I didn't see anything in the article to indicate DED actually tried out the Pixel 2 and 2XL. I think he's just upset about their positive press.  The way Donald trump doesn't like to hear that general Kelly is the adult in the White House.   DED can write some great articles. Some may love this one but I found it disappointing.
    I realize you specially signed uo for your single post, but im going to byte on your trollbait....
    You are smart enough to know between any headphone / earpiece (is analog), and any processor(is digital), there will be a DAC..
    now some old style phones put the DAC just before the nasty 3.5mm (or sometimes 2.5mm) jack plug connector... ( such a jackplug is often an audiophiles second worse nightmare)
    in a headphone jack-less iPhone 7/8/X the stream is kept digital even through the lightning connector, and the DAC is at the other side, closely coupled to the headphone transducer.
    Now as any half decent circuit designer knows, the (analog) coupling can really be optimized since the whole analog portion doesn't have to go through a connector, and it can be properly balanced and coupled correctly to the transducer.
    Personally I liked the jack, because its more convenient, at a pinch i can get super cheap headphones when i forgot my good ones on a trip..
    but any audiophile with at least a 3 digit IQ will understand that removing the jack was always an opportunity for them to get better sound, not worse

    A. Ive been here since 2013.  I'm just haven't drunk the koolaide.

    B.   I favor the universality of the 3.5 mm jack (Apple deserves credit for using it when other phones needed dongles/adapters).  But it's probably a losing battle as next year the holdout Android phones will probably drop the headphone jack.
  • Reply 52 of 148
    plovellplovell Posts: 781member
    Is there a reason this article is listed as a feature and not an editorial? The paragraph below isn’t fact it’s opinion. In fact the whole article feels like a let’s dump on Google because it will make people here feel good. If these phones are DOA and so inferior to iPhone why give them so much ink?

    A worthwhile question but one that demands the obvious reply:- if the phones are highly touted yet obviously inferior, does AI not owe it to its wide readership to alert them to these deficiencies? Your proposal would force users to discover these disasters themselves.

    And besides, think of the friends !
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 148
    calicali Posts: 3,495member

    ronin_cse said:
    Just FYI: "But unlike many Android flagships, the Pixel's battery is not removable" isn't really true anymore, in fact I can't remember the last Android flagship that had a removable battery...probably something from LG
    Yet another example of an iKnockoff user who called Apple stupid for not having X feature but no longer cares after the knockoffs copied. In 5 years he’s gonna shrug if an iKnockoff doesn’t have a headphonr jack.

    “No mobile keyboard! Apple is lol!!”

    “No removable battery!!! Lol Apple is a Failz!”

    ”No headphone jack!! What a dumb Apple!”

    these idiots are predictable.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 148
    I don't want to discuss the rest of the articel as I mostly disagree, but
    LOL. I'm just as angry on google as on apple for removing the headphone jack. 
    It's just a big f%!k you in the face of every audiophile.
    That's why I will probably get the V30.

    Android forever✌


    If you are an audiophile, skip using your smart phone for listening to music. Get a dedicated PMP like FIIO.

    Lossless forever!! /s

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 148
    maxxe123 said:
    Can I please please please simply have unbiased articles focused on Apple products on this page? An article that not only talks one-sided about the flaws of a competitor product but also about where Apple would be well-advised to catch up.

    According to Google, these are unedited photos and videos from the Pixel 2. The Dynamic Range, the Optical Stabilizer, the portrait mode - these features are shockingly good if the photos are real.
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO2_gTkgT1QwgYaWCTowaN6d2Cb5rvyJU10cjAdSU9Ao8v9Ec-r1v1cKdWEx6PNqg?key=WEdYT3BMNFZGdUlwQ0l6aEdFT1UwVlg2LUZESDhn

    I want a small factor phone and don’t want to compromise on the camera. This leaves me with Pixel 2 (649$) vs. iPhone X (999$). If compared this way, the Pixel doesn’t look that overpriced anymore. I still haven’t decided. My wish: that Apple implements all the camera features, that the Pixel 2 currently does better, into their 2018 iPhone 11

    i have never been this close to switch to an Android device. I have the feeling more and more are open for a switch and that should be a warning to Apple to remain innovative.
    You don’t read too good, do you?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 148

    Never fails. DED posts an article and we get several single digit posters getting all worked up.

    To paraphrase one of them - "sorry to hear Daniel pooped in your cornflakes".

    Solitallest skilwatto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 148
    gatorguy said:
    I really hope no one takes the bait... 

    Thank you for the post. It just gave me the right perspective. It probably saved about 1 hour of my time, which I am going to spend on better things in life.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 58 of 148
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,037member
    I have to say I'm always surprised by the paper-thin skin of the Android community. The moment they read a negative piece about their beloved platform, they sign up and post a dozen comments (usually without paragraphs or line breaks) arguing with commendable emotion but very little skill. 

    What they fail to understand is that sites like this are feeding off their insecurity. If you like Android then just use it;  enjoy it! Invading Mac sites just looks like you lack confidence in your choice of platform and desperately need to convince others. I read a lot of the first or second time posters here, and with every post I thought the same thing: are you trying to convince me, or yourself?

    It seems that the rate of Android invaders has stepped up across the internet over the past few weeks. I'm hoping that it's just the usual fear induced by an upcoming iPhone release, and not the symptom of a wider problem. I've only seen this level of invasive desperation twice before:

    When Apple was on its knees just before Gil Amelio took over.
    When IBM was just about to can OS/2

    I'm sure Android isn't on its last legs, but you chaps make it look like it's circling the drain.

    The chances are you're doing more harm than good. Daniel's article will be forgotten about in 48 hours; the impression left by rabid Android users will last much longer.

    edited October 2017 StrangeDaysradarthekathubbaxjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 148
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,735member
    You're just the 10th sac of shit android tit sucker who came hear to tell us that.

    Yet it takes  almost 0.5 sec to take any photo from the lock screen because its so damn slow to start-up and then focus. That sure doesn't count in your troll world.
    So, if you take smart phone pictures on a tripod routinely; it will undoubtably be "fantastic".

    When this thing sells less than a million copy, will you come back or go cry to mama.

    I always love the spec jockey who seem to actually not have used a real camera ever.

    And yes, DXO convinced me that physics doesn't exist. Go on DSLR forums and expound your love of DXO's methods and they'll tell you what's what.

    Considering its as expensive as the two lens 8+, that's essentially a non sequitur...  Maybe they should have put some money in manufacturing too.

    When Apple hits a trillion dollar, I'll be sure to "fear" myself into buying a Porsche with my dividends; as a gift to myself.





    airnerdStrangeDaysradarthekatbrucemcwatto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 148
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,735member
    maxxe123 said:
    Can I please please please simply have unbiased articles focused on Apple products on this page? An article that not only talks one-sided about the flaws of a competitor product but also about where Apple would be well-advised to catch up.

    According to Google, these are unedited photos and videos from the Pixel 2. The Dynamic Range, the Optical Stabilizer, the portrait mode - these features are shockingly good if the photos are real.
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO2_gTkgT1QwgYaWCTowaN6d2Cb5rvyJU10cjAdSU9Ao8v9Ec-r1v1cKdWEx6PNqg?key=WEdYT3BMNFZGdUlwQ0l6aEdFT1UwVlg2LUZESDhn

    I want a small factor phone and don’t want to compromise on the camera. This leaves me with Pixel 2 (649$) vs. iPhone X (999$). If compared this way, the Pixel doesn’t look that overpriced anymore. I still haven’t decided. My wish: that Apple implements all the camera features, that the Pixel 2 currently does better, into their 2018 iPhone 11

    i have never been this close to switch to an Android device. I have the feeling more and more are open for a switch and that should be a warning to Apple to remain innovative.
    You don’t read too good, do you?
    He's really lying, this kind of false narrative is really annoying.
    watto_cobra
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