Google's Pixel 2 XL priced higher than Apple's iPhone 8 Plus but is half as fast, lacks ma...

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  • Reply 81 of 148
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,216member
    I have been waiting for this piece to be written.  It follows the same pattern as previous AI posts.  Basically a VERY long screed made up of 
    1.  Some facts that are objectively true
    2.  Some facts that are objectively false
    3.  Some things which  are opinion  presented as fact.
    4.  Some things which cannot be proven presented  as fact
    5. A heavy dose of hypocrisy
    6. All of the above presented with a level of abject hatred towards all things Google.

    I could go through and write a piece refuting this, but honestly it's not worth my time.  So setting aside the fact that I think the author literally wakes up hating Google and dreaming of all the nasty things he can say about their products, he misses the point entirely.  MacWorld didn't, however:

    https://www.macworld.com/article/3230303/internet-of-things/hey-siri-google-assistant-is-winning-the-ai-game-and-its-not-even-close.html

    The long and short is that sure, just looking at the hardware, Apple makes faster, snazzier hardware.  However, when you buy a phone these days you're buying hardware AND software.  Google has basically decided that it wanted to make hardware that was good enough to not hold back its software.  And it's done so.  If you actually WATCH The keynote, it's all about AI and Machine Learning. The devices are there to provide a portal into that.   We can benchmark and we can spec ourselves to death, but at the end of the day it's whether your phone does what you want it do quickly and efficiently.  Sometimes on device (The "Always Listening" music ID works in airplane mode because it doesn't send stuff to google...it's ON DEVICE -- something the author apparently (deliberately?) missed).  And sometimes in the cloud.  If having the absolute fastest piece of hardware with the most expensive components is what you're about, buy an iPhone.  If you want the best AI and integrated ML services, then you're probably gonna buy a Pixel.  It's honestly that simple. Just because Google is doing better in AI and ML than Apple, doesn't mean Apple sucks at it.  And just because Apple excels at making the sportscar of phones doesn't mean Google sucks at it.  They are just focused on different things.  In the end, if your phone is fast and smooth and you aren't waiting around on it, and it does cool stuff....you'll love your phone no matter what the spec sheet says.  I realize the author cannot wrap his brain around this because it's nothing bug a fog of hate.  

    I would also be remiss in not calling out the hypocrisy of the  author slamming Google over the headphone jack.  First of all, as an aside, I'm in the camp that says BOTH  companies were wrong to yank it.  Lots of ink has been spilled on this so I'm not going into it.  Didn't like it when Apple did it.  Don't like it that Google did it.  But to mock Google for making hay about it last year in their ads?  Does anyone remember the Apple "thumb" ad arguing that the old small iPhones were the only suitable size for a phone because of the size of your hand/thumb?  A year later out comes the giant plus size iPhone.  Were you mocking then?  Yeah didn't think so.  EVERY company bashes what they don't got...until they add it.  

    And yeah, mock the camera if you want to, I've seen the shots, and in MOST cases, it is head and shoulders better than the iPhone camera.  There are still issues with Google's bokeh, but since it's all done in software with machine learning, I won't have to wait a year for a new physical camera to see that improve.  I expect as more and more machine learning happens, the camera software will get smarter about its depth mapping and subsequent processing.  

    Anyway, none of this is Apple bashing.  The Apple phones are spectacular design accomplishments and speed demons...but the AI/Assistant features which are central to Google's phone are just way ahead of Siri on my iOS devices.  If you don't care about this, enjoy your iPhone.
    Excellent first post! You will be labelled a troll for that but fully understand what you are saying and agree that both on the surface and under the surface AI/ML are what make today's modern phones tick. I'm not sure if Apple is up there with Google and Huawei at the moment because I haven't read enough reviews of the new phones, but I have seen some of what is coming on Monday (Mate 10) with comparisons to both the latest Samsung phones and iPhone 8 Plus. The AI responsible for handling motion blur is very, very good. The call and data connection stability is amazing at high speed with multiple cell handovers and difficult coverage scenarios. Cat18 modem, dual 4G simultaneous connections. AI for reduction of interference during voice calls etc.

    It definitely is more of a case of the way all the AI/ML fit together than just benchmarks themselves. If these phones actually deliver on the potential they offer, users will be spoilt for choice this year end (I am speaking about Samsung and Apple here too). Shame I can't afford one and have to wait for things to filter down through the line to cheaper price points.
    edited October 2017 techrules
  • Reply 82 of 148
    I use a Pixel XL and Apple 6s Plus that I use daily. I ca nappreciate all of your fancy scores and pictures but in practical daily use I widely prefer the Pixel. I see no difference in snappiness. I am not a gamer so that doesnt apply. Have you ever used a google pixel? -Google assistant blows siri out of the water. I have asked both phones the same questions and google answers are far and away more accurate, and or better. Siri usually just searches the web and shows you the results -Ive taken pictures with both, even an iphone 8 plus and the pixel usually has the better pictures. Now the portrait mode on the 8 plus is legit and better than the pixel 1, havent seen the pixel 2 yet -The video stabilization on the pixel 2 has OIS and EIS and the early youtube vids comparing to iphone 8 show google blowing apple away, as do most of the side-by-side picture comparison vids on youtube -Im not tethered to iTunes!, good, I hated having to use iTunes to sync and restore -I have unlimited, uncompressed cloud storage of all pics and videos -The iphone X most likely wont ship until next year...nice launch -Bezels anyone? 8 and 8 plus still have huge bezels! not the pixel2 XL though -Home screen customization anyone? the iphone still uses the same old home screen with tiny clock at the top and no real options -I much prefer 3 buttons to 1 -Front firing dual speakers is a plus for the pixel 2 -Wireless charging? non-issue for me, I see no advantage to laying my phone on a pad that is plugged in vs plugging the phone in -Android vs IOS, well both are good -Notification window. Google can customise what i get to see and what i want to have shortcuts to like flashlight, wi-fi, airplane, bluetooth, etc.... Apple is what it is -overall, i feel like apple tells you how to use your phone, google lets you use your phone how you want to use it
    techrules
  • Reply 83 of 148
    Google has basically decided that it wanted to make hardware that was good enough to not hold back its software.  And it's done so.
    You were just shown the opposite.

    No, actually I wasn't.  The hardware is plenty fast and smooth.  Is it as fast  at a benchmark as an iPhone?  No.  Does the user experience suffer?  No. Because the actual user experiences are smooth and fast in both cases. 

    If you actually WATCH The keynote, it's all about AI and Machine Learning.
    Huh, who said that a while back, I wonder? Oh, right; Steve Jobs at D… 7, I think it was. Talking about buying the thing that would become Siri.

    Yeah, and Siri is consistently losing to Google assistant, and even MacWorld admits it (as do most people who own devices by both companies.  Even Daring Fireball's John Gruber linked to how bad Siri was vs. Google in Android Auto and suggested that the Apple team be FORCED to watch the YouTube video he linked.  You're denying crap that even huge apple fans don't.

    If having the absolute fastest piece of hardware with the most expensive components is what you're about, buy an iPhone.
    Okay, thanks for admitting that Android is held back by its hardware (and coding).

    I never said that it is "held back".  So don't put words in my mouth.  I said the iPhone is faster.  That's all.  No one is being held back.  That's fanboi-ism at its worst.  Good lord, this is like arguing with a child.  The only people that care about the differences in the benchmarks at this point are people like you.  The average person uses the phone.  If it feels fast and smooth, that's not being held back.  I have yet to meet a Pixel user complain that their phone is slow, laggy or that they are being 'held back' and that's the CURRENT generation of hardware.  And you know what, I own an iPad and I can tell you that it DOES go non-responsive to touches.  It DOES lag.  It does freeze up.  It does have crashing apps.  It has all the things I was always told that Apple products don't suffer from, but between picking up my iPad , my Pixel C tablet or my phone, I usually go to my Pixel C because the thing just zips through things faster and with less stuttering than the iPad I have. 

    If you want the best AI and integrated ML services, then you're probably gonna buy a Pixel.
    Google's all about the integration. Can't have their products doing things without their knowledge, now can they?

    What  ARE you talking about?  Oh yeah, tinfoil hat stuff.
    BOTH companies were wrong to yank it.
    Both Apple and Dell were "wrong" to yank ADB and PS/2 ports, too. In two more years no one will cry over 3.5 mm

    Maybe some day.  Look, if the companies had just added a second port so you didn't need a freakin' dongle, I wouldn't really care that much whether it was 3.5mm or a second USB-C or lightning connector.  I *hate* having to buy a SPLITTER To charge my phone while using headphones.  And with Bluetooth, it's still difficult.   Let's  see, do I want APTX, APTX-HD, LDAC , SBC?  Do I want Bluetooth 4.1, 4.2 or 5.0?  And What can I get that's compatible with everything  and won't cost an arm and a leg?  No, Bluetooth is still finding it's way and that just makes it a pain in the ass for everyone.  But yeah in a couple of years, we probably won't care.  How does that help us NOW?
    Were you mocking then?  Yeah didn't think so.
    Yes. Because hands DON'T go that big.  :p

    So you DID mock Apple for making a big phone?  
    since it's all done in software
    Ah yes, software camera features–a photographer's dream

    Hate to break it to you but even DSLR's have SOFTWARE in them.  The high end photographers will photograph RAW and go to lightroom, but for every one of them, there's a ton more who are taking pictures that write JPG's.  And what's writing those JPG's?  What's deciding how to balance the picture, set sharpness, saturation, etc?  SOFTWARE!!!  If you think it goes straight from the lens to a JPG with no software help...I can't help you.  And you know what?  APPLE frickin' uses software for their camera too.  Their software is  just skewing towards relying more heavily on the hardware with a fixed set of rules for processing the camera.  Now, they can update this software to fix issues and try to help things out, but these things are part of the OS updates, not  so much independent updates like Google will do with its camera.  So yeah, you mock software camera feautres, but your iPhone uses them too.  It's not whether they use software, it's WHAT software do they use.  Google uses computational photography and it is getting  great results, plus it's using ML to get better and smarter all the time.  Apple, as far as anyone knows, isn't doing that as much as just manually tuning things.  The proof is in the results.    I got into it last year with a hardcore professional photographer and iPhone user.  Took her several months, but she ultimately concede the Pixel was taking better shots.  Not that I expect anyone at Apple Insider to concede even this point.  Because what I've seen here with the author and commenters is that Apple MUST BE BETTER AT EVERYTHING.  Can't concede anyone did any ONE thing better.  That is the mark of true blindness.  
    PIXELFANtechrules
  • Reply 84 of 148
    APPLE fast charging....doesn't come with the phone! I just bought my wife the 8 plus and bought the fast charger from amazon and the usb-c to lightning port off amazon...at least pixels come with with the charging block to support their fast charging

    apple store had the cost at around $70 for both
    ripoff
    techrules
  • Reply 85 of 148
    I didn't read all that, but pretty sure the only time you mentioned the Pixel 2 XL's larger, sharper screen was as a negative, which is ridiculous. The resolution and use of OLED almost certainly makes it better than the iPhone 8 Plus's (I'll admit I haven't used either, but do have both QHD OLED devices and True Tone devices at home and I know which I prefer.) Also, in real world use that 4GB of RAM will likely be absolutely fine. It certainly is on my S7 Edge, a phone which runs basically just as fast as my iPad Pro 10.5 for all intents and purposes. The Pixel 2 XL is overpriced, but this article looks to be seriously biased.
    Apple will sell you an OLED but you have to buy the Iphone X and rumors are it wont ship till 2018 and it costs more than the Pixel 2
    techrules
  • Reply 86 of 148
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,289member
    I don't want to discuss the rest of the articel as I mostly disagree, but
    LOL. I'm just as angry on google as on apple for removing the headphone jack. 
    It's just a big f%!k you in the face of every audiophile.
    That's why I will probably get the V30.

    Android forever✌
    Actually if you think that the removal of the headphone jack is a slap in the face to "audiophiles", you're not an audiophile.

    The reason is that analog audio, especially coming out an 1/8" jack is of poor quality.  In our testing (I write a top-rated music app on the App Store), the audio channels bleed into each other.  For instance, if we pan the audio to the left, it still comes out the right.  This is problematic on any device we tested and is caused by poor shielding in the small headphone jack port.  In addition, you are limited to stereo sound and mono input.  You are also relying on a low quality DAC to translate the digital audio inside of the device into analog audio.

    When you move to a purely digital audio route, you allow the headphone manufacturer or other device to translate the digital audio into analog at the last possible stage.  This allows the signal to be processed effectively.  For instance, for 3D sound, separating sound into different frequencies for different drivers.  Digital channels are also not susceptible to interference.  Not to mention the ENTIRE AUDIO INDUSTRY is moving to purely digital audio routing from the instrument through to the mains using Dante or AVB.  It allows audio to be synchronized with other media and to carry additional metadata that is not possible with out hacks in an analog context.

    So while it's a temporary inconvenience right now, it's a necessary bump to push the industry to complete the fully digital transition and the benefits that it will bring.
    GG1avon b7tmayStrangeDaysrrrobwatto_cobra
  • Reply 87 of 148
    BluntBlunt Posts: 198member
    PIXELFAN said:

    i use both a 6s plus and a pixel XL daily, I have an 8 plus to play with as well everyday.

    Have you or any apple fan boys ever used a Pixel?

    or do you just believe that a picture of a circuit board and some geekbench tests mean your phone is the best ever?

    No and i never will buy anything from Google. The iPhone is the best phone ever.
    Every troll over here uses Apple but prefers Android. Sure.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 88 of 148
    tipootipoo Posts: 851member
    "Not only is the Pixel 2 XL's brain slower, but it's tasked with managing 3.6 million pixels, an invisible-to-the-eye "advantage" in resolution that inherently contributes to slower performance in graphics given that iPhone 8 Plus only has to manage 2 million."


    Not so here, remember the Plus renders to a 3X resolution before downscaling to 2X, so they're actually processing a comparable amount of pixels, plus the downscaling GPU load. I'd estimate it's a wash. 

    While it's fair to say the Pixel is more expensive while being faster, that's also not including the lesser-bezel OLED it has over the Plus, which makes the dimensions of the Plus a bit unwieldy personally. It kinda sits between the X and Plus that way on the display front, closer to the X, while the gap in processing power is the same from it to either the Plus or X. 
    edited October 2017 techrules
  • Reply 89 of 148
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,373member
    PIXELFAN said:
    Blunt said:
    Pixelfan go customize your Pixel and fuck off.
    i use both a 6s plus and a pixel XL daily, I have an 8 plus to play with as well everyday.

    Have you or any apple fan boys ever used a Pixel?

    or do you just believe that a picture of a circuit board and some geekbench tests mean your phone is the best ever?
    I've tested the original Pixel and a huge number of non-Apple made devices. I don't "play with" them but analyze them in a variety of ways and Apple's devices keep coming up as being best in class, which included being fastest in actual use and most refined.

    I can tell you that every time someone posts "but blah blah was first" that the experience, quality, and/or security of that so-called feature is exceptionally poor. Take Touch ID for example. I bet you were someone that made a big deal about how Apple was just "catching up to the completion" and that you had a fingerprint reader on a WinPC a decade earlier, but people like you would leave out just how poor that experience was and, most importantly, how insecure it was.

    As for posting the engineering abilities of the logic board, that speaks volumes about the product because the average customer never sees it. Since you don't know why that's important I'll explain it to you: Companies that only care about the superficial aspects of what the customer can see and not the experience or the whole of the device are the problem with this industry. The extra R&D and manufacturing cost to make a more complex and compact logic board show that Apple is better at engineering and cares about the device instead about making a quick sale and then dropping the customer once they realize those simplistic spec sheet numbers don't tell the whole story.

    You're the kind of person that looks at the amount of RAM but not the type, speed. You're the type of person that looks at the number of cores and clock rate, but nothing els about an extremely complex SoC. You're the type of person that Google and other low-tier vendors love.

    PS: No one believes you bought an iPhone 8 for your wife.
    edited October 2017 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 90 of 148
    Soli said:
    PIXELFAN said:
    Blunt said:
    Pixelfan go customize your Pixel and fuck off.
    i use both a 6s plus and a pixel XL daily, I have an 8 plus to play with as well everyday.

    Have you or any apple fan boys ever used a Pixel?

    or do you just believe that a picture of a circuit board and some geekbench tests mean your phone is the best ever?
    I've tested the original Pixel and a huge number of non-Apple made devices. I don't "play with" them but analyze them in a variety of ways and Apple's devices keep coming up as being best in class, which included being fastest in actual use and most refined.

    I can tell you that every time someone posts "but blah blah was first" that the experience, quality, and/or security of that so-called feature is exceptionally poor. Take Touch ID for example. I bet you were someone that made a big deal about how Apple was just "catching up to the completion" and that you had a fingerprint reader on a WinPC a decade earlier, but people like you would leave out just how poor that experience was and, most importantly, how insecure it was.

    As for posting the engineering abilities of the logic board, that speaks volumes about the product because the average customer never sees it. Since you don't know why that's important I'll explain it to you: Companies that only care about the superficial aspects of what the customer can see and not the experience or the whole of the device are the problem with this industry. The extra R&D and manufacturing cost to make a more complex and compact logic board show that Apple is better at engineering and cares about the device instead about making a quick sale and then dropping the customer once they realize those simplistic spec sheet numbers don't tell the whole story.

    You're the kind of person that looks at the amount of RAM but not the type, speed. You're the type of person that looks at the number of cores and clock rate, but nothing els about an extremely complex SoC. You're the type of person that Google and other low-tier vendors love.

    PS: No one believes you bought an iPhone 8 for your wife.
    ill post a pic for you side by side later
    touch ID works great so does googles. my note 4 fingerprint scanner sucked
    apple may have hardware advantages but google has software

    my tests are how i use the phone, no other testing is important to me
    ranman2017techrules
  • Reply 91 of 148
    ranman2017 said:
    Does the user experience suffer? No.
    Glad to see you're not just a one-off account. I know multi quoting is a pain here, too. Also, ehh… 
    You're denying crap that even huge apple fans don't.
    I doubt that, just as I doubt Siri's 'inadequacies'.
    No one is being held back.
    Being, no. It's just something about a lack of care and consideration put into the software. "It's good enough;" that's all that matters, particularly when the phone isn't the product.
    What ARE you talking about?  Oh yeah, tinfoil hat stuff.
    Aww, cute. He thinks "conspiracy theory" is a bad word. They've admitted to it themselves.
    Look, if the companies had just added a second port
    So… NOT done the one thing they explicitly needed to do. Do you understand how irrelevant that statement is? The port's gone. Forever.
    I *hate* having to buy a SPLITTER To charge my phone while using headphones.
    Hence the push toward wireless charging.
    No, Bluetooth is still finding it's way and that just makes it a pain in the ass for everyone.
    Boy, I hear that. AirPlay's a much smoother experience (though won't be on headphones anytime soon).
      But yeah in a couple of years, we probably won't care.  How does that help us NOW?
    "These olive trees won't bear fruit until I'm 80; how does that help me NOW?" The sickness of instant gratification is why society is in its current mess. Maybe learn from that?
    So you DID mock Apple for making a big phone?
    Oh yeah.  :D I still don't like the 5.5. Heck, I don't like the iPad mini. Que sera sera.
    Hate to break it to you but even DSLR's have SOFTWARE in them.
    Yes; you know what I'm saying here. The old "we'll fix it in software" argument as an excuse for lesser hardware.
    Can't concede anyone did any ONE thing better.

    I like the… uh… shit, what do I like… Honestly, I have WAY more complaints about what Apple does than I do good things to say about any of their competitors in any field. I guess I like this mouse. It's as simple as you can get–five bucks–but it's one of the best mice I've ever used. Granted, I only use it in Windows–I use the Magic Trackpad in OS X…


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 92 of 148
    Rayz2016 said:
    I have to say I'm always surprised by the paper-thin skin of the Android community. The moment they read a negative piece about their beloved platform, they sign up and post a dozen comments (usually without paragraphs or line breaks) arguing with commendable emotion but very little skill. 

    What they fail to understand is that sites like this are feeding off their insecurity. If you like Android then just use it;  enjoy it! Invading Mac sites just looks like you lack confidence in your choice of platform and desperately need to convince others. I read a lot of the first or second time posters here, and with every post I thought the same thing: are you trying to convince me, or yourself?

    It seems that the rate of Android invaders has stepped up across the internet over the past few weeks. I'm hoping that it's just the usual fear induced by an upcoming iPhone release, and not the symptom of a wider problem. I've only seen this level of invasive desperation twice before:

    When Apple was on its knees just before Gil Amelio took over.
    When IBM was just about to can OS/2

    I'm sure Android isn't on its last legs, but you chaps make it look like it's circling the drain.

    The chances are you're doing more harm than good. Daniel's article will be forgotten about in 48 hours; the impression left by rabid Android users will last much longer.

    The irony is that the level of stretching that the author has to do to bash every single weakness AND strength of the Pixels makes him look very very insecure with his iPhone.  This is actually kind of pointless.  No one sane believes the Pixel is any real threat to iPhone sales.  Some tiny sliver of iPhone users (some of whom I know) have and will make the jump to Pixel and love it.  but most will stay locked into Apple's ecosystem and won't even consider leaving.  So why so much hate?  I would think the author would be happy that Google is applying competitive pressure.  For all the fanboys out there, NEITHER platform would where it is right now if they weren't competing with each other.  Google is good for Apple.  Apple is good for Google.  We all win.  We could write a VERY long comparison of all the stuff each side 'stole' from the other.  At the end of the day, both companies focus on slightly different things and the phones we have are frickin' awesome as a result.  I contemplated ordering an iPhone 8/X but at the end of the day, the camera and the AI features were what won the day for me. The phone is 'fast enough'.  If I see it lagging and stuttering, I'll be pissed, sure.  But from using the Pixel and knowing many people who've owned it, that seriously has not been a problem, specs or no specs.
    The point of the article isn't to convert fandroids to iOS. It's pointing out the fact that the Pixel costs more and offers less than an iPhone 8. Despite this the tech press narrative is that Apple is overpriced. This paradox is newsworthy in an editorial for discussion.
    edited October 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 93 of 148

    Blunt said:
    Wow, lots of textbook Androidkiddies troll posts. The truth hurts. Try to be a bit more creative next time. I mean no one is buying things like: My partner ownes an iPhone and my Pixel is a million times better and now she thinks about switching.
    you live in a bubble if you think it doesn't happen.  I personally know several switchers who have switched to pixel and not looked back.  Different reasons usually.  Sometimes it's as simple as wanting something 'different'.  Sometimes it's something else, but if you SERIOUSLY Tthink NO ONE is ever wanting to jump from iPhone to Pixel, you live in an alteranate reality.  True a sizeable majority will stay locked into the Apple ecosystem, but there is always a percentage that has no problem hopping the fence.  Deny if you like.
    An insignificant number isn't noteworthy. There are also people who drink their own urine believing it to be therapeutic....not many, but they do exist. So what?
    edited October 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 94 of 148

    I didn't read all that, but pretty sure the only time you mentioned the Pixel 2 XL's larger, sharper screen was as a negative, which is ridiculous. The resolution and use of OLED almost certainly makes it better than the iPhone 8 Plus's (I'll admit I haven't used either, but do have both QHD OLED devices and True Tone devices at home and I know which I prefer.) Also, in real world use that 4GB of RAM will likely be absolutely fine. It certainly is on my S7 Edge, a phone which runs basically just as fast as my iPad Pro 10.5 for all intents and purposes. The Pixel 2 XL is overpriced, but this article looks to be seriously biased.
    Didn't read the article and its fact-based observations, claims its biased nonetheless. Classic.
    I read every word of it and I'll say it straight up.  But of course it's biased.  It's written by an Apple fan and no, it's not all 'fact-based'.
    As an editorial of course there is an opinion involved. That's what an editorial is. Do you read newspapers?

    But I'd love it if you disputed the facts which are plainly laid out.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 95 of 148
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 18,607member
    Rayz2016 said:
    I have to say I'm always surprised by the paper-thin skin of the Android community. The moment they read a negative piece about their beloved platform, they sign up and post a dozen comments (usually without paragraphs or line breaks) arguing with commendable emotion but very little skill. 

    What they fail to understand is that sites like this are feeding off their insecurity. If you like Android then just use it;  enjoy it! Invading Mac sites just looks like you lack confidence in your choice of platform and desperately need to convince others. I read a lot of the first or second time posters here, and with every post I thought the same thing: are you trying to convince me, or yourself?

    It seems that the rate of Android invaders has stepped up across the internet over the past few weeks. I'm hoping that it's just the usual fear induced by an upcoming iPhone release, and not the symptom of a wider problem. I've only seen this level of invasive desperation twice before:

    When Apple was on its knees just before Gil Amelio took over.
    When IBM was just about to can OS/2

    I'm sure Android isn't on its last legs, but you chaps make it look like it's circling the drain.

    The chances are you're doing more harm than good. Daniel's article will be forgotten about in 48 hours; the impression left by rabid Android users will last much longer.

    The irony is that the level of stretching that the author has to do to bash every single weakness AND strength of the Pixels makes him look very very insecure with his iPhone.  This is actually kind of pointless.  No one sane believes the Pixel is any real threat to iPhone sales.  Some tiny sliver of iPhone users (some of whom I know) have and will make the jump to Pixel and love it.  but most will stay locked into Apple's ecosystem and won't even consider leaving.  So why so much hate?  I would think the author would be happy that Google is applying competitive pressure.  For all the fanboys out there, NEITHER platform would where it is right now if they weren't competing with each other.  Google is good for Apple.  Apple is good for Google.  We all win.  We could write a VERY long comparison of all the stuff each side 'stole' from the other.  At the end of the day, both companies focus on slightly different things and the phones we have are frickin' awesome as a result.  I contemplated ordering an iPhone 8/X but at the end of the day, the camera and the AI features were what won the day for me. The phone is 'fast enough'.  If I see it lagging and stuttering, I'll be pissed, sure.  But from using the Pixel and knowing many people who've owned it, that seriously has not been a problem, specs or no specs.
    The point of the article isn't to convert fandroids to iOS. It's pointing out the fact that the Pixel costs more and offers less than an iPhone 8. Despite this the tech press narrative is that Apple is overpriced. This paradox is newsworthy in an editorial for discussion.
    The tech press narrative is that the Pixel2 XL is over-priced too. They're being consistent at least, so no there is not a paradox. 
    techrules
  • Reply 96 of 148
    Soli said:
    PIXELFAN said:
    Blunt said:
    Pixelfan go customize your Pixel and fuck off.
    i use both a 6s plus and a pixel XL daily, I have an 8 plus to play with as well everyday.

    Have you or any apple fan boys ever used a Pixel?

    or do you just believe that a picture of a circuit board and some geekbench tests mean your phone is the best ever?
    I've tested the original Pixel and a huge number of non-Apple made devices. I don't "play with" them but analyze them in a variety of ways and Apple's devices keep coming up as being best in class, which included being fastest in actual use and most refined.

    I can tell you that every time someone posts "but blah blah was first" that the experience, quality, and/or security of that so-called feature is exceptionally poor. Take Touch ID for example. I bet you were someone that made a big deal about how Apple was just "catching up to the completion" and that you had a fingerprint reader on a WinPC a decade earlier, but people like you would leave out just how poor that experience was and, most importantly, how insecure it was.

    As for posting the engineering abilities of the logic board, that speaks volumes about the product because the average customer never sees it. Since you don't know why that's important I'll explain it to you: Companies that only care about the superficial aspects of what the customer can see and not the experience or the whole of the device are the problem with this industry. The extra R&D and manufacturing cost to make a more complex and compact logic board show that Apple is better at engineering and cares about the device instead about making a quick sale and then dropping the customer once they realize those simplistic spec sheet numbers don't tell the whole story.

    You're the kind of person that looks at the amount of RAM but not the type, speed. You're the type of person that looks at the number of cores and clock rate, but nothing els about an extremely complex SoC. You're the type of person that Google and other low-tier vendors love.

    PS: No one believes you bought an iPhone 8 for your wife.
    I believe him.  So your statement is factually false.  But the more important question is: why don't you believe him? 
  • Reply 97 of 148
    avon b7 said:
    I have been waiting for this piece to be written.  It follows the same pattern as previous AI posts.  Basically a VERY long screed made up of 
    1.  Some facts that are objectively true
    2.  Some facts that are objectively false
    3.  Some things which  are opinion  presented as fact.
    4.  Some things which cannot be proven presented  as fact
    5. A heavy dose of hypocrisy
    6. All of the above presented with a level of abject hatred towards all things Google.

    I could go through and write a piece refuting this, but honestly it's not worth my time.  So setting aside the fact that I think the author literally wakes up hating Google and dreaming of all the nasty things he can say about their products, he misses the point entirely.  MacWorld didn't, however:

    https://www.macworld.com/article/3230303/internet-of-things/hey-siri-google-assistant-is-winning-the-ai-game-and-its-not-even-close.html

    The long and short is that sure, just looking at the hardware, Apple makes faster, snazzier hardware.  However, when you buy a phone these days you're buying hardware AND software.  Google has basically decided that it wanted to make hardware that was good enough to not hold back its software.  And it's done so.  If you actually WATCH The keynote, it's all about AI and Machine Learning. The devices are there to provide a portal into that.   We can benchmark and we can spec ourselves to death, but at the end of the day it's whether your phone does what you want it do quickly and efficiently.  Sometimes on device (The "Always Listening" music ID works in airplane mode because it doesn't send stuff to google...it's ON DEVICE -- something the author apparently (deliberately?) missed).  And sometimes in the cloud.  If having the absolute fastest piece of hardware with the most expensive components is what you're about, buy an iPhone.  If you want the best AI and integrated ML services, then you're probably gonna buy a Pixel.  It's honestly that simple. Just because Google is doing better in AI and ML than Apple, doesn't mean Apple sucks at it.  And just because Apple excels at making the sportscar of phones doesn't mean Google sucks at it.  They are just focused on different things.  In the end, if your phone is fast and smooth and you aren't waiting around on it, and it does cool stuff....you'll love your phone no matter what the spec sheet says.  I realize the author cannot wrap his brain around this because it's nothing bug a fog of hate.  

    I would also be remiss in not calling out the hypocrisy of the  author slamming Google over the headphone jack.  First of all, as an aside, I'm in the camp that says BOTH  companies were wrong to yank it.  Lots of ink has been spilled on this so I'm not going into it.  Didn't like it when Apple did it.  Don't like it that Google did it.  But to mock Google for making hay about it last year in their ads?  Does anyone remember the Apple "thumb" ad arguing that the old small iPhones were the only suitable size for a phone because of the size of your hand/thumb?  A year later out comes the giant plus size iPhone.  Were you mocking then?  Yeah didn't think so.  EVERY company bashes what they don't got...until they add it.  

    And yeah, mock the camera if you want to, I've seen the shots, and in MOST cases, it is head and shoulders better than the iPhone camera.  There are still issues with Google's bokeh, but since it's all done in software with machine learning, I won't have to wait a year for a new physical camera to see that improve.  I expect as more and more machine learning happens, the camera software will get smarter about its depth mapping and subsequent processing.  

    Anyway, none of this is Apple bashing.  The Apple phones are spectacular design accomplishments and speed demons...but the AI/Assistant features which are central to Google's phone are just way ahead of Siri on my iOS devices.  If you don't care about this, enjoy your iPhone.
    Excellent first post! You will be labelled a troll for that but fully understand what you are saying and agree 
    Birds of a feather flock together...

    The reasons one might call his posts that of a troll's are the cherrypicking, goal-post moving, and FUD whispers while refusing to refute the facts of this editorial. 
    Solitmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 98 of 148

    PIXELFAN said:
    I use a Pixel XL and Apple 6s Plus that I use daily. I ca nappreciate all of your fancy scores and pictures but in practical daily use I widely prefer the Pixel. 
    You have 1 post, don't care about facts, and won't be here in a month. Man I wish AI was still holding new members until they proved they weren't astroturfers or trolls.
    edited October 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 99 of 148

    PIXELFAN said:
    APPLE fast charging....doesn't come with the phone! I just bought my wife the 8 plus and bought the fast charger from amazon and the usb-c to lightning port off amazon...at least pixels come with with the charging block to support their fast charging

    apple store had the cost at around $70 for both
    ripoff
    1) Not a ripoff because fast charging isn't really much of a feature:

    "The bottom line: it’s faster, yes, but not that much faster. I ran the iPhone 8 battery down until it powered off. I plugged it into the 29-watt charger, and got the following results: after 15 minutes it was back to 27 percent, at 30 minutes it was at 54 percent, and at 45 minutes it was at 72 percent. But then I did the same thing with my year-old iPhone 7. After 30 minutes it was at 43 percent, and at 45 minutes it was at 65 percent. (I didn’t pay attention to where it was at after 15 minutes.) The iPhone 8 does charge faster than an iPhone 7, but not by much."

    https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/the_iphones_8
    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/09/iphone-charging

    2) The Pixel doesn't even ship with a pair of headphones! Far more useful than slightly-faster charging. Sounds like you're the one that's going to get ripped off. Enjoy your AirPod knockoffs.
    Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 100 of 148

    PIXELFAN said:
    I didn't read all that, but pretty sure the only time you mentioned the Pixel 2 XL's larger, sharper screen was as a negative, which is ridiculous. The resolution and use of OLED almost certainly makes it better than the iPhone 8 Plus's (I'll admit I haven't used either, but do have both QHD OLED devices and True Tone devices at home and I know which I prefer.) Also, in real world use that 4GB of RAM will likely be absolutely fine. It certainly is on my S7 Edge, a phone which runs basically just as fast as my iPad Pro 10.5 for all intents and purposes. The Pixel 2 XL is overpriced, but this article looks to be seriously biased.
    Apple will sell you an OLED but you have to buy the Iphone X and rumors are it wont ship till 2018 and it costs more than the Pixel 2
    Ships November. 

    Costs more than a Pixel 2 because it offers more features, as does the iPhone 8 today.
    watto_cobra
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