The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline.
Conspiracy nonsense. Gruber is no more a spokesperson for apple than DED is - gruber didn’t even get an early review unit until yesterday, unlike many others.
I don’t doubt that Apple execs are using the same talking point tho, which is why you see it. There’s no ulterior motive tho, other than the fact that prepared talking points are harder to screw up when talking off the cuff during interviews. That’s why it’s done.
There no conspiracy, beyond prepared scripts, as you acknowledge.
Gruber may not be paid but it’s silly to try to pretend he’s not a mouthpiece for Apple. He’s clearly reading from the same “prepared talking points”, even using the same idioms. The difference is that he read the script first and now Apple execs are casually trying insert the same phrasing into their pieces. Remaining “independent” is far more lucrative for Gruber.
That’s conspiracy nonsense. He was an east coast indie software dev for a popular company, his blog is over a decade old. He’s fully disclosed that he doesn’t work for apple nor own stock, and that he makes his hefty salary from advertisers due to his popularity within his target audience. He blasted apple over their MBP keyboards and routinely concern trolls, wringing his hands with “worry”. He didn’t even get a review unit last week.
As he also has said, apple execs talk to him, and are among his sources. if say, craig, were to say “we’re all in on Face ID”, and Gruber then publishes that his apple source told him they’re all in...then what the fuck is the problem? You’re pissed that he’s reporting what they said?
The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline.
It doesn't really matter if it was scripted or not. If it's the truth, people will believe it. If it's lie, Apple will lost its credential. And from those two scenario, it's easy to pick which is the most likely case. Simple as that.
I myself think Apple can be trusted in this matter, I see no reason whatsoever for Apple to deny there was ever a TouchID under screen and so I would too defend Apple's statement. Does that make me "all in" as you suggested?
Riccio also said the design was locked in NOVEMBER. November!!! Like, all the rumors this summer that said anything about the design were incorrect unless they said no Touch ID. Basically the rumors are behind by like 9-10 months. Useless.
Riccio also said the design was locked in NOVEMBER. November!!! Like, all the rumors this summer that said anything about the design were incorrect unless they said no Touch ID. Basically the rumors are behind by like 9-10 months. Useless.
I'm sure we'll see more reports of last minute design changes next Summer… yet again, but we know that such things simply aren't realistic.
PS: It should be noted that there's a statement about there not being enough time to include both Touch ID on the back or under the display -and- Face ID this year so those that are saying that it's impossible that both could be included on a single Apple device need to reexamine that hard stance. Even if you believe, like me, that it's improbable, you shouldn't rule is as impossible simple because it didn't happen with the iPhone X. 2FB (two-factor biometrics) aren't uncommon for security and I can think of many use cases where one biometric is more convenient than the other.
Riccio also said the design was locked in NOVEMBER. November!!! Like, all the rumors this summer that said anything about the design were incorrect unless they said no Touch ID. Basically the rumors are behind by like 9-10 months. Useless.
I'm sure we'll see more reports of last minute design changes next Summer… yet again, but we know that such things simply aren't realistic.
PS: It should be noted that there's a statement about there not being enough time to include both Touch ID on the back or under the display -and- Face ID this year so those that are saying that it's impossible that both could be included on a single Apple device need to reexamine that hard stance. Even if you believe, like me, that it's improbable, you shouldn't rule is as impossible simple because it didn't happen with the iPhone X. 2FB (two-factor biometrics) aren't uncommon for security and I can think of many use cases where one biometric is more convenient than the other.
I’m thinking that next year we will get an iPhone 9 with TouchId and LCD screen , iPhone XI and iPhone XI plus.
Makes me think that we will see an Apple car after all.
Whatever the reason for making Touch ID obsolete, Apple should offer its users the choice of more than one method for security features, including one that is more difficult to mimick, which I believe is not your biometric data, irrespective of convenience.
Why are we willing to give our biometric data to others? As a citizen, not a consumer, I would not trust anyone but myself, let alone a corporation, to protect my security and identify. It’s akin to giving them and anyone who can have access to them carte blanche.
Using iCloud and synching and storing our information, data and photos are akin to giving negatives of your photos to a corporation. Why would we do that? For convenience?
“The chance that a random person could use their fingerprint to unlock your iPhone is about 1 in 50,000,” said Phill Schiller. He added, “What are the similar statistics for Face ID? One in a million. The chance that a random person in the population could look at your iPhone X and unlock it with their face is about one in a million.” These stats are based on mathematics and probabilities, irrelevant to security. It could take one thief, a police officer, an army personnel to break that chance; under such stressful and fearful circumstances, your amygdla is at its height and your ability to remain calm and deactivate Face ID or refuse to open your eyes in front of your iPhone could be highly compromised.
Smart phones should provide multiple modalities to protect data and unlock them e. g. fingerprint, face, iris and voice so that users have a choice, not corporations steering their behavior.
Whatever the reason for making Touch ID obsolete, Apple should offer its users the choice of more than one method for security features, including one that is more difficult to mimick, which I believe is not your biometric data, irrespective of convenience.
The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline.
Or they are simply telling the truth each time the question comes up.
Whatever the reason for making Touch ID obsolete, Apple should offer its users the choice of more than one method for security features, including one that is more difficult to mimick, which I believe is not your biometric data, irrespective of convenience.
Why are we willing to give our biometric data to others? As a citizen, not a consumer, I would not trust anyone but myself, let alone a corporation, to protect my security and identify. It’s akin to giving them and anyone who can have access to them carte blanche.
Using iCloud and synching and storing our information, data and photos are akin to giving negatives of your photos to a corporation. Why would we do that? For convenience?
“The chance that a random person could use their fingerprint to unlock your iPhone is about 1 in 50,000,” said Phill Schiller. He added, “What are the similar statistics for Face ID? One in a million. The chance that a random person in the population could look at your iPhone X and unlock it with their face is about one in a million.” These stats are based on mathematics and probabilities, irrelevant to security. It could take one thief, a police officer, an army personnel to break that chance; under such stressful and fearful circumstances, your amygdla is at its height and your ability to remain calm and deactivate Face ID or refuse to open your eyes in front of your iPhone could be highly compromised.
Smart phones should provide multiple modalities to protect data and unlock them e. g. fingerprint, face, iris and voice so that users have a choice, not corporations steering their behavior.
Wait, you’re presenting the possibility of a scenario where you might be forced to use FaceID to open your phone, but you don’t recognize that there are plentiful scenarios where you could be compelled to unlock your phone regardless of its security mechanisms. If say, the iPhone used TouchID with FaceID followed up with the full password typed in followed by you moving the phone about in a series of seven figure 8’s before it would unlock, then I can tell you that most people would go through that exact process if, say, a gun we’re placed to their head and they were told “unlock your phone or die.”
Seems like Face ID will be a much more natural fit for Mac and iPad too. I’ve never used a fingerprint reader on a notebook or desktop machine that seemed anything but tacked-on as an afterthought. An all-glass front iPad Pro sounds intriguing too if you can tolerate fingerprints and smudges.
iPads already have an "all-glass" front? I knew what you meant tho.
Why are we willing to give our biometric data to others? As a citizen, not a consumer, I would not trust anyone but myself, let alone a corporation, to protect my security and identify. It’s akin to giving them and anyone who can have access to them carte blanche.
Using iCloud and synching and storing our information, data and photos are akin to giving negatives of your photos to a corporation. Why would we do that? For convenience?
For the record, the biometric data on Apple devices never leave them, they are stored on the secure enclave on the devices. You probably knew that, but when FUD runs riot, logic and facts take a back seat, I guess.
And, with regard to storing photos in iCloud etc., you might want to read this instructive piece for why Apple is a safer bet than Google and Facebook: http://time.com/4998189/iphone-x-privacy-apple/
Prediction is all new iPhone models will drop touchid and have face id than how many and what size of iPhone/screen will be coming in 2018 besides spec upgrade to iPhone XI. The "Game of Guessing" now starts.
Not having used it yet, till mine comes, I'm not seeing the benefit YET. Just from my use cases it's much less obvious to touch your finger to the sensor and turn on your phone in a meeting than having to stare at it. Also only having one face vs five fingerprints is a disadvantage to me. Again I'm certainly waiting to see what this brings the I don't know about but jury is still out IMO.
I think Apple is telling the truth that they weren't for this first, but that doesn't mean that it's the best solution for everyone
With FaceID you won't need to touch the phone. You simply look at it where it lies. OR as soon as you pick it up to look at the screen (you DO want to look at the screen, right, to view the info?) FaceID processes your image, compares the math and unlocks the screen all before you are able to turn a TouchID phone around to locate the the place to put your finger! In a vehicle you would simply have your phone in a holder with the charge cable plugged in and the phone face slightly turned to aim at your face, then all you need do is to briefly look at the phone to unlock it, which you have to do anyway if you want to read the screen, all without taking your hand off the steering wheel!
Also, you don't have to hold the iPhone upright (portrait)! It can be horizontal (landscape) and still work! Also, let the phone lie on a tabletop and unlock with your eyes instead of reaching for it!
Thus, I don't see any downside of FaceID over TouchID being you MUST look at the phone's face anyway to see what is being displayed, at which moment your face unlocks the phone.
Touch ID has been quite useful, but not always perfect. Too many times I end up keying in my 6 digit code instead of it reading my fingerprint correctly. Cant wait to being using X with face id.
Why are we willing to give our biometric data to others? As a citizen, not a consumer, I would not trust anyone but myself, let alone a corporation, to protect my security and identify. It’s akin to giving them and anyone who can have access to them carte blanche.
This is FUD nonsense. Your biometric data never leaves the device.
Seems like Face ID will be a much more natural fit for Mac and iPad too. I’ve never used a fingerprint reader on a notebook or desktop machine that seemed anything but tacked-on as an afterthought. An all-glass front iPad Pro sounds intriguing too if you can tolerate fingerprints and smudges.
Does this mean new MBPs w/o the stupid Touch Bar???!!! Maybe some good will come from this.
Ah, I see that that "late 2018" for faceID has become accepted; so, it looks like my beloved SE will likely not have it. That makes more sense. Too bad.
All signs point to a 2018 iPhone SE update remaining a budget model. Considering Apple can't manufacture enough TrueDepth cameras to fit into the iPhone 8 this year, the iPhone SE most certainly will not get it next year. ... My guess: We'll get an iPhone SE with A10 CPU and 3D Touch display. And Touch ID, naturally. And I'm guessing it'll keep the headphone jack.
Gosh, I sure hope so! That means I have at least one upgrade path left before having to look elsewhere. By that time, hopefully it will become clear if Apple is still invested in the Mac, and I can decide if sticking with the platform and putting up with the phone silliness is worth it.
designr said: I'm hoping for this. WOuldn't mind updating my current SE to an improved one and get some more years out of the design, size and touch ID while I can because it seems all three are going away.
Well said. It's the design, size, Touch ID, 3.5mm audio jack, etc. that makes the SE so great. Apple thinks it's the price.
Anonymous1 said: Why are we willing to give our biometric data to others? As a citizen, not a consumer, I would not trust anyone but myself, let alone a corporation, to protect my security and identify. It’s akin to giving them and anyone who can have access to them carte blanche.
The claim is that it's locked away on the device and isn't/can't be sent to Apple or accessed by them. But, I agree... it's a heck of a lot of trust. That said, I doubt it will be long before cameras everywhere identify us and track us and such. And... then there is technology like Adobe demo'd that allows you to catch an audio clip of someone and then edit what you want them to say, and it will produce it. Won't be long before the same can be done with video. It's an interesting world we're moving into.
applemagic said: And, with regard to storing photos in iCloud etc., you might want to read this instructive piece for why Apple is a safer bet than Google and Facebook:
Heh... thought that's not really saying too much, I suppose. With Google and Facebook, you EXPECT your info to be abused and sold. We're just hoping and trusting that Apple is better/different. It's one area that I still at least believe/trust that Apple is better.
Prediction is all new iPhone models will drop touchid and have face id than how many and what size of iPhone/screen will be coming in 2018 besides spec upgrade to iPhone XI. The "Game of Guessing" now starts.
The real game is guessing the name, because clearly Apple has no actual plan or consistency.
gunner1954 said: In a vehicle you would simply have your phone in a holder with the charge cable plugged in and the phone face slightly turned to aim at your face, then all you need do is to briefly look at the phone to unlock it, which you have to do anyway if you want to read the screen, all without taking your hand off the steering wheel!
The problem isn't taking a hand off the steering wheel, it's looking away from the driving situation to focus on the device. And, what if I don't have a special holder and the phone is laying on the passenger seat, or in the center console cup-holder? I can unlock it there without looking away from the road with Touch ID (and then if Siri actually worked, could accomplish something w/o ever looking at the phone).
Touch ID has been quite useful, but not always perfect. Too many times I end up keying in my 6 digit code instead of it reading my fingerprint correctly. Cant wait to being using X with face id.
Looks like the future is back to the codes... kind of like back to the settings to enable/disable Wi-Fi, etc. One step forward, two steps back.
Ah, yeah yeah yeah nah, we were always gonna go for Face ID = that person who tries a trick on a skateboard, falls over and insists that he meant to do it.
Ah, yeah yeah yeah nah, we were always gonna go for Face ID = that person who tries a trick on a skateboard, falls over and insists that he meant to do it.
How does that example make sense when Face ID is a success and they released it in the iPhone X a year ahead of schedule?
Ah, yeah yeah yeah nah, we were always gonna go for Face ID = that person who tries a trick on a skateboard, falls over and insists that he meant to do it.
Your example is a stupid one. Per your example -- what was the public failed trick? Apple said they never even tried putting it under the glass, so it can't be that. Their execs are on record as saying they locked it down a year ago and that's what we have today. As a public corp they can't lie to the public or investors. Are you saying they're lying? Who are you and what are you credentials, so that we may weigh your claims accordingly?
Comments
That’s conspiracy nonsense. He was an east coast indie software dev for a popular company, his blog is over a decade old. He’s fully disclosed that he doesn’t work for apple nor own stock, and that he makes his hefty salary from advertisers due to his popularity within his target audience. He blasted apple over their MBP keyboards and routinely concern trolls, wringing his hands with “worry”. He didn’t even get a review unit last week.
As he also has said, apple execs talk to him, and are among his sources. if say, craig, were to say “we’re all in on Face ID”, and Gruber then publishes that his apple source told him they’re all in...then what the fuck is the problem? You’re pissed that he’s reporting what they said?
Get real man. You sound jealous and petty.
I myself think Apple can be trusted in this matter, I see no reason whatsoever for Apple to deny there was ever a TouchID under screen and so I would too defend Apple's statement. Does that make me "all in" as you suggested?
PS: It should be noted that there's a statement about there not being enough time to include both Touch ID on the back or under the display -and- Face ID this year so those that are saying that it's impossible that both could be included on a single Apple device need to reexamine that hard stance. Even if you believe, like me, that it's improbable, you shouldn't rule is as impossible simple because it didn't happen with the iPhone X. 2FB (two-factor biometrics) aren't uncommon for security and I can think of many use cases where one biometric is more convenient than the other.
Makes me think that we will see an Apple car after all.
Why are we willing to give our biometric data to others? As a citizen, not a consumer, I would not trust anyone but myself, let alone a corporation, to protect my security and identify. It’s akin to giving them and anyone who can have access to them carte blanche.
Using iCloud and synching and storing our information, data and photos are akin to giving negatives of your photos to a corporation. Why would we do that? For convenience?
“The chance that a random person could use their fingerprint to unlock your iPhone is about 1 in 50,000,” said Phill Schiller. He added, “What are the similar statistics for Face ID? One in a million. The chance that a random person in the population could look at your iPhone X and unlock it with their face is about one in a million.” These stats are based on mathematics and probabilities, irrelevant to security. It could take one thief, a police officer, an army personnel to break that chance; under such stressful and fearful circumstances, your amygdla is at its height and your ability to remain calm and deactivate Face ID or refuse to open your eyes in front of your iPhone could be highly compromised.
Smart phones should provide multiple modalities to protect data and unlock them e. g. fingerprint, face, iris and voice so that users have a choice, not corporations steering their behavior.
https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2017/09/18/disable-face-id/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2017/09/18/security-apple-face-id-iphone-x/
And, with regard to storing photos in iCloud etc., you might want to read this instructive piece for why Apple is a safer bet than Google and Facebook:
http://time.com/4998189/iphone-x-privacy-apple/
Also, you don't have to hold the iPhone upright (portrait)! It can be horizontal (landscape) and still work! Also, let the phone lie on a tabletop and unlock with your eyes instead of reaching for it!
Thus, I don't see any downside of FaceID over TouchID being you MUST look at the phone's face anyway to see what is being displayed, at which moment your face unlocks the phone.
Gosh, I sure hope so! That means I have at least one upgrade path left before having to look elsewhere. By that time, hopefully it will become clear if Apple is still invested in the Mac, and I can decide if sticking with the platform and putting up with the phone silliness is worth it.
Well said. It's the design, size, Touch ID, 3.5mm audio jack, etc. that makes the SE so great. Apple thinks it's the price.
The claim is that it's locked away on the device and isn't/can't be sent to Apple or accessed by them. But, I agree... it's a heck of a lot of trust. That said, I doubt it will be long before cameras everywhere identify us and track us and such. And... then there is technology like Adobe demo'd that allows you to catch an audio clip of someone and then edit what you want them to say, and it will produce it. Won't be long before the same can be done with video. It's an interesting world we're moving into.
Heh... thought that's not really saying too much, I suppose. With Google and Facebook, you EXPECT your info to be abused and sold. We're just hoping and trusting that Apple is better/different. It's one area that I still at least believe/trust that Apple is better.
The real game is guessing the name, because clearly Apple has no actual plan or consistency.
The problem isn't taking a hand off the steering wheel, it's looking away from the driving situation to focus on the device. And, what if I don't have a special holder and the phone is laying on the passenger seat, or in the center console cup-holder? I can unlock it there without looking away from the road with Touch ID (and then if Siri actually worked, could accomplish something w/o ever looking at the phone).
Looks like the future is back to the codes... kind of like back to the settings to enable/disable Wi-Fi, etc. One step forward, two steps back.