Apple emphasizes again that Touch ID for iPhone X was never an option, company all-in on F...

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in iPhone
Apple has once again reiterated that, despite rumors to the contrary, the company did not intend to have a Touch ID fingerprint sensor embedded in the display of the iPhone X, and that Face ID was developed to be a full, permanent Touch ID replacement.




Dan Riccio, senior vice president of hardware engineering with Apple, was asked by TechCrunch about rumors that persisted throughout 2017 about Touch ID being embedded in the iPhone X display. They were all bogus, he said.

"I heard some rumor [that] we couldn't get Touch ID to work through the glass so we had to remove that," Riccio said. "When we hit early line of sight on getting Face ID to be [as] good as it was, we knew that if we could be successful we could enable the product that we wanted to go off and do. And if that's true, it could be something that we could burn the bridges and be all-in with. This was assuming it was a better solution.

"And that's what we did. So we spent no time looking at fingerprints on the back or through the glass or on the side, because if we did those things -- which would be a last-minute change -- they would be a distraction relative to enabling the more important thing that we were trying to achieve -- which was Face ID done in a high-quality way."

Apple's Face ID technology introduced in the iPhone X is made up of four components including an infrared camera, a flood illuminator, a dot projector, and the front camera. The combination of sensors generates a 3D map of the face that it compares to the mathematical models of the stored face, utilizing the new A11 Bionic neural engine.

AppleInsider's own tests with the iPhone X Face ID have found that it is a near-immediate and reliable way of securely unlocking the handset.

Up until this summer, reports suggested Apple might offer some combination of Face ID facial recognition and Touch ID fingerprint scanning. But Apple has repeatedly said since announcing the iPhone X that Touch ID was never a consideration so late in the development of the device.

The latest rumors have gone in the opposite direction. Now, it is said that Apple is planning to implement Face ID in all new iPhones scheduled to arrive in late 2018, expediting the retirement of Touch ID.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 44
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,742member
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    gatorguyboxcatcher
  • Reply 2 of 44
    Ah, I see that that "late 2018" for faceID has become accepted; so, it looks like my beloved SE will likely not have it. That makes more sense. Too bad. 
  • Reply 3 of 44
    netroxnetrox Posts: 701member
    I believe Apple. I don't think TouchID is ideal and face ID is much better and as evident in reviews, much more pleasant.
    JWSCjbdragonrepressthisargonaut
  • Reply 4 of 44
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    Yes because rumor sites and other tech sites are all in on having you believe Face ID was plan B because they couldn’t get Touch ID under the display (plan A) to work. The minute someone thinks something was plan B they assume it’s not as good, reliable etc. It’s in Apple’s interest for the public to know this is the future and the company is all in on it and it wasn’t a last minute design change because something else didn’t work.
    mattinozJWSCRayz2016andrewj5790boxcatcherlolliverjbdragonjony0radarthekatrepressthis
  • Reply 5 of 44
    dewmedewme Posts: 1,900member
    Seems like Face ID will be a much more natural fit for Mac and iPad too. I’ve never used a fingerprint reader on a notebook or desktop machine that seemed anything but tacked-on as an afterthought. An all-glass front iPad Pro sounds intriguing too if you can tolerate fingerprints and smudges. 
    calimattinozboxcatcherargonaut
  • Reply 6 of 44
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    What a ridiculously skeptical assumption!

    So, you'd rather believe a consensus of babble from a list of babblers over simply looking for yourself at the fact that Face ID is fundamentally better than Touch ID.

    Amazing.
    cali2old4funStrangeDaysJWSCandrewj5790lolliverjbdragonjony0radarthekatrepressthis
  • Reply 7 of 44
    Not having used it yet, till mine comes, I'm not seeing the benefit YET.  Just from my use cases it's much less obvious to touch your finger to the sensor and turn on your phone in a meeting than having to stare at it. Also only having one face vs five fingerprints is a disadvantage to me. Again I'm certainly waiting to see what this brings the I don't know about but jury is still out IMO. 

    I think Apple is telling the truth that they weren't for this first, but that doesn't mean that it's the best solution for everyone
  • Reply 8 of 44
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 750editor
    Ah, I see that that "late 2018" for faceID has become accepted; so, it looks like my beloved SE will likely not have it. That makes more sense. Too bad. 
    All signs point to a 2018 iPhone SE update remaining a budget model. Considering Apple can't manufacture enough TrueDepth cameras to fit into the iPhone 8 this year, the iPhone SE most certainly will not get it next year.

    What will be interesting to see is if Apple goes all out with the A11 chip for the SE, or if they stick with an A10. Don't forget that when the first SE came out, it boasted the same flagship CPU and rear camera as the iPhone 6s, making it faster and better than the (more expensive) iPhone 6. That enabled Apple to keep the SE unchanged for a couple of years, aside from a capacity bump earlier this year.

    My guess: We'll get an iPhone SE with A10 CPU and 3D Touch display. And Touch ID, naturally. And I'm guessing it'll keep the headphone jack.
    repressthisargonautwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 44
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,742member
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    Yes because rumor sites and other tech sites are all in on having you believe Face ID was plan B because they couldn’t get Touch ID under the display (plan A) to work. The minute someone thinks something was plan B they assume it’s not as good, reliable etc. It’s in Apple’s interest for the public to know this is the future and the company is all in on it and it wasn’t a last minute design change because something else didn’t work.
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    What a ridiculously skeptical assumption!

    So, you'd rather believe a consensus of babble from a list of babblers over simply looking for yourself at the fact that Face ID is fundamentally better than Touch ID.

    Amazing.
    Well, at least you guys are all in on the script. That’s marketing money well spent.

    I’m not saying they are being dishonest. But it’s pretty clear they are reading from a script. Scripted corporate messaging isn’t always dishonest. It always means they need/want a certain narrative to take hold.

    Looks like it’s working.

    as for it being “fundamentally better” I’m sorry but that’s just trying to restate their marketing material. It’s does seem better in many use cases but certainly not all. Using it without Apple Pay is one area where it is undeniably less smooth and fluid. And Apple pay is a critical area for authentication.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 10 of 44
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    Conspiracy nonsense. Gruber is no more a spokesperson for apple than DED is - gruber didn’t even get an early review unit until yesterday, unlike many others. 

    I don’t doubt that Apple execs are using the same talking point tho, which is why you see it. There’s no ulterior motive tho, other than the fact that prepared talking points are harder to screw up when talking off the cuff during interviews. That’s why it’s done. 
    jbdragonjony0randominternetpersonradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 44

    Not having used it yet, till mine comes, I'm not seeing the benefit YET.  Just from my use cases it's much less obvious to touch your finger to the sensor and turn on your phone in a meeting than having to stare at it. Also only having one face vs five fingerprints is a disadvantage to me. Again I'm certainly waiting to see what this brings the I don't know about but jury is still out IMO. 
    But how would you use the phone without looking at it? Since you have to look at it anyway, the issue seems rather moot. 
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 44
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,207member
    Surely the home button isn’t going away on the non-X models so why remove touchID?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 44
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,634member
    A ridiculous rumor. Of course Apple was All-in with face ID. These things aren't trivial. Components need to be designed, fitted, tested, and mass produced. Touch ID and Face ID use different components and are located in different areas of the phone. If they couldn't decide which one to use a long time ago, it would have affected the case and the internals. 
    80s_Apple_GuyStrangeDaysariejony0radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 44
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,621member
    Without even trying it some are inventing scenarios where it couldn’t possibly work. Talk about negative bias assumptions.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 44
    The meme “all new iPhones in 2018 will feature Face ID” is meaningless. What “new iPhones”? There can be only one new model with Face ID, which is iPhone X “Plus”, an 6.5 inch device with a huge full display within the dimensions of iPhone 8 Plus. Since Apple didn’t want to implement Face ID along with Touch ID to preserve focus on it, the possibility of LCD models acquiring Face ID is nil.

    And given Apple’s slowness in withdrawing old models, we can consider fairly three iterations more for Touch ID models, but that will depend mostly on the impact made by Face ID model(s). Once the plus size X model is released it may be time to think about withdrawing the old models but even in that case, Apple may act slowly.
    edited October 2017 asdasdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 44

    Not having used it yet, till mine comes, I'm not seeing the benefit YET.  Just from my use cases it's much less obvious to touch your finger to the sensor and turn on your phone in a meeting than having to stare at it. Also only having one face vs five fingerprints is a disadvantage to me. Again I'm certainly waiting to see what this brings the I don't know about but jury is still out IMO. 
    But how would you use the phone without looking at it? Since you have to look at it anyway, the issue seems rather moot. 
    Unlocking and glancing under a table may not be enough to trigger the face id. It's enough to see a text. 
  • Reply 17 of 44
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,742member
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    Conspiracy nonsense. Gruber is no more a spokesperson for apple than DED is - gruber didn’t even get an early review unit until yesterday, unlike many others. 

    I don’t doubt that Apple execs are using the same talking point tho, which is why you see it. There’s no ulterior motive tho, other than the fact that prepared talking points are harder to screw up when talking off the cuff during interviews. That’s why it’s done. 
    There no conspiracy, beyond prepared scripts, as you acknowledge.

    Gruber may not be paid but it’s silly to try to pretend he’s not a mouthpiece for Apple. He’s clearly reading from the same “prepared talking points”, even using the same idioms. The difference is that he read the script first and now Apple execs are casually trying insert the same phrasing into their pieces. Remaining “independent” is far more lucrative for Gruber. 
    k2kw
  • Reply 18 of 44
    nhughes said:
    Ah, I see that that "late 2018" for faceID has become accepted; so, it looks like my beloved SE will likely not have it. That makes more sense. Too bad. 
    All signs point to a 2018 iPhone SE update remaining a budget model. Considering Apple can't manufacture enough TrueDepth cameras to fit into the iPhone 8 this year, the iPhone SE most certainly will not get it next year.

    What will be interesting to see is if Apple goes all out with the A11 chip for the SE, or if they stick with an A10. Don't forget that when the first SE came out, it boasted the same flagship CPU and rear camera as the iPhone 6s, making it faster and better than the (more expensive) iPhone 6. That enabled Apple to keep the SE unchanged for a couple of years, aside from a capacity bump earlier this year.

    My guess: We'll get an iPhone SE with A10 CPU and 3D Touch display. And Touch ID, naturally. And I'm guessing it'll keep the headphone jack.
    Holla, Señor Hughes. ¿Como esta usted? 

    As for the SE: i am a nut for mine. Okay. Had to say that lol. As for it's future, I think Apple will have a harder time figuring out what to put in it than it did making Animoji work correctly. Jk. Sort of, haha. Seriously, though, I think Apple must put the A11 Bionic into it. They want this AR to be one of their next major pushes towards innovation, so a kick-butt chip is número uno. 

    As for 3D touch, I agree likely it will have, but now the price is going up for them and my super computer probability analytical models are stressing to predict what else will be inside!

    A11, HD Retina, better ISP for camera, and that's all I can say for sure :))

    A11 10000%!!!

    thanks, it was a pleasure!
    nhughes
  • Reply 19 of 44
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,093member
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    Given the unsourced rumors making stuff up left and right about tech (just look at Paul T.) talking about stuff they know nothing about.... 

    all in sounds about right. 
    edited October 2017 randominternetperson
  • Reply 20 of 44
    tulkas said:
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    Yes because rumor sites and other tech sites are all in on having you believe Face ID was plan B because they couldn’t get Touch ID under the display (plan A) to work. The minute someone thinks something was plan B they assume it’s not as good, reliable etc. It’s in Apple’s interest for the public to know this is the future and the company is all in on it and it wasn’t a last minute design change because something else didn’t work.
    tulkas said:
    The more every statement from the company, include John Gruber, uses the same "all-in on face ID" mantra, the more it sounds like they are pushing a scripted narrative. I at least hope the PR machine is trying to convince the outside world instead of inside Apple that they really were all in. Either way, they are actively trying to convince someone that they were "all in". They are all-in on this script. They are all in on the narrative. They are all in on the storyline. 
    What a ridiculously skeptical assumption!

    So, you'd rather believe a consensus of babble from a list of babblers over simply looking for yourself at the fact that Face ID is fundamentally better than Touch ID.

    Amazing.
    as for it being “fundamentally better” I’m sorry but that’s just trying to restate their marketing material. It’s does seem better in many use cases but certainly not all. Using it without Apple Pay is one area where it is undeniably less smooth and fluid. And Apple pay is a critical area for authentication.
    1) where did Apple say Face ID is superior in every single scenario? 

    2) You haven’t used it for AP, but reviewers who have say it’s smoother to use...double press the side button to trigger (as on watch), authenticate with a look, wave over reader. Since you’d be looking at the touch ID equipped phone too, looking at the X isn’t more effort. 
    randominternetpersonargonautwatto_cobra
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