Tesla unveils new Semi with a 500 mile range, Roadster that can hit 250 miles per hour

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  • Reply 101 of 140
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,824member
    tmay said:
    The Roadster price starts at $200,000...
    Just confirms my opinion that Tesla builds expensive things much like Apple really.
    The Model 3 is supposed to start at $35K yet it seems that average configurations are $40K+.
    A Used Model X where I live starts at £80,000 and up. ($103K)

    I can afford most Apple stuff but there is no way that I can afford a Tesla (even a £35K Model 3)

    However and IMHO Apple should have bought Tesla 2-3 years ago when the price was right if Apple were ever truly serious about cars.

    Tesla isn't, and won't likely, ever make any money in automobile production, and as I noted above, tax credits are decreasing/ending worldwide for EV's, and that is having an adverse effect on sales, especially the Tesla S and X. More to the point, gas is cheap, and IC engined cars still sell in the 10's of millions with many EV competitors coming that will have the effect of driving down prices.

    I am glad that Apple did not have any interest in purchase of Tesla; it's flailing.

    We will know in 1 year if Musk will be able to produce the model three in high volume assembly line. If so he will be well on his way to a much bigger company. The model 3 will lead to the Model Y, truck, and other models. First automated vehicle will be the hardest. Setting up additional GigaFactories in China and Europe will come much easier. With china wanting to go Electric he will be well positioned.
    Soli
  • Reply 102 of 140
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,381member
    k2kw said:
    tmay said:
    The Roadster price starts at $200,000...
    Just confirms my opinion that Tesla builds expensive things much like Apple really.
    The Model 3 is supposed to start at $35K yet it seems that average configurations are $40K+.
    A Used Model X where I live starts at £80,000 and up. ($103K)

    I can afford most Apple stuff but there is no way that I can afford a Tesla (even a £35K Model 3)

    However and IMHO Apple should have bought Tesla 2-3 years ago when the price was right if Apple were ever truly serious about cars.

    Tesla isn't, and won't likely, ever make any money in automobile production, and as I noted above, tax credits are decreasing/ending worldwide for EV's, and that is having an adverse effect on sales, especially the Tesla S and X. More to the point, gas is cheap, and IC engined cars still sell in the 10's of millions with many EV competitors coming that will have the effect of driving down prices.

    I am glad that Apple did not have any interest in purchase of Tesla; it's flailing.

    We will know in 1 year if Musk will be able to produce the model three in high volume assembly line. If so he will be well on his way to a much bigger company. The model 3 will lead to the Model Y, truck, and other models. First automated vehicle will be the hardest. Setting up additional GigaFactories in China and Europe will come much easier. With china wanting to go Electric he will be well positioned.
    These complaints against Tesla remind me of trolls coming here to bash Apple.

    Tesla wasn’t the first EV so it’s a failure. Tesla doesn’t have the fastest time around Nürburgring so it’s a failure. Tesla is investing in their future with Gigafactory so it’s a failure. Tesla doesn’t make as many cars as Toyota so it’s a failure.

    This has only become more pronounced since there were rumoura of Apple getting into this business.
    edited November 2017 gatorguy
  • Reply 103 of 140
    k2kw said:
    d_2 said:
    I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress :/
    I can't wait for self driving cars to take away the tedium and tension of my rush hour every day.    And of course make it safer.
    I love to drive, but it’s all of those other people on the road who keep getting in the way. ;)
  • Reply 104 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    tmay said:
    So, for some $300K, I can get a 911 GT2 RS that recently busted the record at Nurburgring. Sure, doesn't accelerate as fast as a Tesla S 200, and doesn't have the top end, but it's a real drivers car, which I don't consider Tesla's to be. YMMV.
    Oh yea. If I could buy any car I wanted, it would be that or a Porsche 911 Turbo S. It's the ultimately blend of super-car that's actually somewhat practical... and if cared for will last a long, long time. A Tesla doesn't stand a chance.... at least for now. It's a boat by comparison... it just happens to be a really fast straight-line boat.

    k2kw said:
    I can't wait for self driving cars to take away the tedium and tension of my rush hour every day.    And of course make it safer.
    What makes you think it's going to be safer... and safer than what? If you're drunk or texting, then of course it's going to be safer. Careful you aren't being sold an AI-bill-of-goods.

    SpamSandwich said:
    I love to drive, but it’s all of those other people on the road who keep getting in the way. ;)
    Well, yea... if/when AI becomes safer, it's going to be primarily due to an ever increasing level of morons on the road. :( And, even then, that moron could hit your AI car too. So, if you're a reasonably good driver, you're only going to be safer with AI once it's all AI (and AI has had enough time and faced enough 'situations' to build out the database).

  • Reply 105 of 140
    steveh said:
    kkqd1337 said:
    I have no faith in whatever Elon Musk says. Believe it when I see it. Same goes for the Tesla 3
    Don't anyone tell J. Random1337 about SpaceX, right?
    Right? I mean it's all because of Musk and not the legion of ex-NASA engineers who did the work. Sorry, but Tesla isn't our moonshot and this company will be Tucker and his machine part deux.
    Old Joke circa 1948...

    Customer walks into a car dealership and tells the salesman that he wants to buy a car to impress his girlfriend.

    Salesman:  Buy a Kaiser and surprise her.

    Salesman: Or, Buy a Frasier and amaze her.

    Customer:  Nah, I think I'll buy a Tucker.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_48
    lorin schultzSpamSandwich
  • Reply 106 of 140
    AppleInsider said:

    New Tesla Roadster
    According to Musk, the new Roadster will be "the fastest production car ever made, period." Little else is known as far as concrete details at this point -- but the car will finish a quarter mile from a stop in 8.9 seconds.




    The vehicle has four seats for passengers. Pricing for it is not yet available.
    Ummmm, by definition, a roadster (Spider or Spyder) is an OPEN (topless) two-seat vehicle, which now includes convertibles, but not cabriolets. This picture is of a four-seat coupe, not a roadster. If Musk thinks this is a roadster, or is redesigning the roadster into a coupe, then I suggest not getting on his spaceship to Mars as you may wind up on the wrong planet.
    SpamSandwichbrucemc
  • Reply 107 of 140
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,381member
    AppleInsider said:

    New Tesla Roadster
    According to Musk, the new Roadster will be "the fastest production car ever made, period." Little else is known as far as concrete details at this point -- but the car will finish a quarter mile from a stop in 8.9 seconds.




    The vehicle has four seats for passengers. Pricing for it is not yet available.
    Ummmm, by definition, a roadster (Spider or Spyder) is an OPEN (topless) two-seat vehicle, which now includes convertibles, but not cabriolets. This picture is of a four-seat coupe, not a roadster. If Musk thinks this is a roadster, or is redesigning the roadster into a coupe, then I suggest not getting on his spaceship to Mars as you may wind up on the wrong planet.
    None of that matters because 1) these aren't legally binding terms, and 2) it's product name is Roadster, which means it can use any generic term.
    brucemc
  • Reply 108 of 140
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,982member
    AppleInsider said:

    New Tesla Roadster
    According to Musk, the new Roadster will be "the fastest production car ever made, period." Little else is known as far as concrete details at this point -- but the car will finish a quarter mile from a stop in 8.9 seconds.




    The vehicle has four seats for passengers. Pricing for it is not yet available.
    Ummmm, by definition, a roadster (Spider or Spyder) is an OPEN (topless) two-seat vehicle, which now includes convertibles, but not cabriolets. This picture is of a four-seat coupe, not a roadster. If Musk thinks this is a roadster, or is redesigning the roadster into a coupe, then I suggest not getting on his spaceship to Mars as you may wind up on the wrong planet.
    "Disruption" is changing the industry standard terminology whenever you frickin want to, and taking 1000, $250K full payments for the "Roadster" to be a "founder". 

    Sure, it looks like yet another typical Tesla Kickstarter project, but others might call it a Pyramid Scheme based simply on the burn rate of Investor cash on hand this quarter, the necessity for Tesla to go back to the bond market to get yet again more funding, and the "production hell" of the Model 3. 
  • Reply 109 of 140
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    tmay said:
    AppleInsider said:

    New Tesla Roadster
    According to Musk, the new Roadster will be "the fastest production car ever made, period." Little else is known as far as concrete details at this point -- but the car will finish a quarter mile from a stop in 8.9 seconds.




    The vehicle has four seats for passengers. Pricing for it is not yet available.
    Ummmm, by definition, a roadster (Spider or Spyder) is an OPEN (topless) two-seat vehicle, which now includes convertibles, but not cabriolets. This picture is of a four-seat coupe, not a roadster. If Musk thinks this is a roadster, or is redesigning the roadster into a coupe, then I suggest not getting on his spaceship to Mars as you may wind up on the wrong planet.
    "Disruption" is changing the industry standard terminology whenever you frickin want to, and taking 1000, $250K full payments for the "Roadster" to be a "founder". 

    Sure, it looks like yet another typical Tesla Kickstarter project, but others might call it a Pyramid Scheme based simply on the burn rate of Investor cash on hand this quarter, the necessity for Tesla to go back to the bond market to get yet again more funding, and the "production hell" of the Model 3. 
    Yes. his always starting new stuff to get new money does sound like a lot like pyramid scheme, a ponzi scheme, and there is no way the 3 will be on track in one year, no way; quote me later.
  • Reply 110 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    gunner1954 said:
    Ummmm, by definition, a roadster (Spider or Spyder) is an OPEN (topless) two-seat vehicle, which now includes convertibles, but not cabriolets. This picture is of a four-seat coupe, not a roadster. If Musk thinks this is a roadster, or is redesigning the roadster into a coupe, then I suggest not getting on his spaceship to Mars as you may wind up on the wrong planet.
    I've seen other pics of it w/o a section of the top... more like a targa, for whatever that's worth.
    Yea, don't get on the spaceship to Mars. Bad idea! Musk has watched a bit too much StarTrek I think (or Sci-Fi in general the way he speaks of AI).

  • Reply 111 of 140
    tmay said:
    AppleInsider said:

    New Tesla Roadster
    According to Musk, the new Roadster will be "the fastest production car ever made, period." Little else is known as far as concrete details at this point -- but the car will finish a quarter mile from a stop in 8.9 seconds.




    The vehicle has four seats for passengers. Pricing for it is not yet available.
    Ummmm, by definition, a roadster (Spider or Spyder) is an OPEN (topless) two-seat vehicle, which now includes convertibles, but not cabriolets. This picture is of a four-seat coupe, not a roadster. If Musk thinks this is a roadster, or is redesigning the roadster into a coupe, then I suggest not getting on his spaceship to Mars as you may wind up on the wrong planet.
    "Disruption" is changing the industry standard terminology whenever you frickin want to, and taking 1000, $250K full payments for the "Roadster" to be a "founder". 

    Sure, it looks like yet another typical Tesla Kickstarter project, but others might call it a Pyramid Scheme based simply on the burn rate of Investor cash on hand this quarter, the necessity for Tesla to go back to the bond market to get yet again more funding, and the "production hell" of the Model 3. 
    I'm among those who thinks that Tesla may never be a profitable company. It's actually a lot like Amazon, except I think Amazon is actually making a bit of a profit now.
  • Reply 112 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    SpamSandwich said:
    I'm among those who thinks that Tesla may never be a profitable company. It's actually a lot like Amazon, except I think Amazon is actually making a bit of a profit now.
    I think my primary concern with Tesla, is whether now that all the other 'sleeping giants' have been woke... whether they'll simply run Tesla over. While I've not had the chance to drive or ride in a Tesla yet, I get the impression they aren't quite as well built as vehicles from the better traditional automakers. I think it's harder to get all that stuff down in volume than it is to figure out how to implement electric motors and batteries. (Didn't Musk even make some statement once to the effect that even if Tesla only kicks off the industry... he'll have considered it a success. I wonder if there might be some recognition there that once the other massive companies jump in, he might get eclipsed.)

    Also, as much as I admire some of what Tesla accomplished with the Model S - and while I'd LOVE that 0-60+ performance - the car overall is kinda clunky in terms of looks and interior, etc. (As is the new 3.) It looks like the Roadster, if they pull it off, might be quite a leap in that regard.
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 113 of 140
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,381member
    tmay said:
    AppleInsider said:

    New Tesla Roadster
    According to Musk, the new Roadster will be "the fastest production car ever made, period." Little else is known as far as concrete details at this point -- but the car will finish a quarter mile from a stop in 8.9 seconds.




    The vehicle has four seats for passengers. Pricing for it is not yet available.
    Ummmm, by definition, a roadster (Spider or Spyder) is an OPEN (topless) two-seat vehicle, which now includes convertibles, but not cabriolets. This picture is of a four-seat coupe, not a roadster. If Musk thinks this is a roadster, or is redesigning the roadster into a coupe, then I suggest not getting on his spaceship to Mars as you may wind up on the wrong planet.
    "Disruption" is changing the industry standard terminology whenever you frickin want to, and taking 1000, $250K full payments for the "Roadster" to be a "founder". 

    Sure, it looks like yet another typical Tesla Kickstarter project, but others might call it a Pyramid Scheme based simply on the burn rate of Investor cash on hand this quarter, the necessity for Tesla to go back to the bond market to get yet again more funding, and the "production hell" of the Model 3. 
    I'm among those who thinks that Tesla may never be a profitable company. It's actually a lot like Amazon, except I think Amazon is actually making a bit of a profit now.
    Sometimes, they still operate as a break-even business, which isn't a bad option if they're investing it all back into growing the company. Tesla, on the other hand, isn't operating that same way at this point. They are investing heavily in their future, just not at the same level as Amazon and likely still wouldn't be profitable if you didn't count all those longterm investment.
  • Reply 114 of 140
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,381member
    cgWerks said:
    SpamSandwich said:
    I'm among those who thinks that Tesla may never be a profitable company. It's actually a lot like Amazon, except I think Amazon is actually making a bit of a profit now.
    I think my primary concern with Tesla, is whether now that all the other 'sleeping giants' have been woke... whether they'll simply run Tesla over. While I've not had the chance to drive or ride in a Tesla yet, I get the impression they aren't quite as well built as vehicles from the better traditional automakers. I think it's harder to get all that stuff down in volume than it is to figure out how to implement electric motors and batteries. (Didn't Musk even make some statement once to the effect that even if Tesla only kicks off the industry... he'll have considered it a success. I wonder if there might be some recognition there that once the other massive companies jump in, he might get eclipsed.)

    Also, as much as I admire some of what Tesla accomplished with the Model S - and while I'd LOVE that 0-60+ performance - the car overall is kinda clunky in terms of looks and interior, etc. (As is the new 3.) It looks like the Roadster, if they pull it off, might be quite a leap in that regard.
    That's always a concern, but we've all seen that having deep pockets and seemingly unlimited resources don't necessarily mean you automatically win. You can take a look at MS and Yahoo's presence in the market when Apple and Google, respectively, came out with disruptive products. Tesla's achievement have been disruptive, and whether they survive or not what they've done for the industry is good for all of us*,

    * Excluding those that are heavily invested in vehicles with ICEs.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 115 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    Soli said:
    * Excluding those that are heavily invested in vehicles with ICEs.
    Yea. I don't quite understand how opposed to EVs some seem to be. I'm about the overall driving experience. I'll admit there is a quality about ICEs, the sounds, the shifting, etc. that has been an enjoyable part of the experience. But, I think there are aspects of electric motors that will be just as enjoyable (like nearly instant torque everywhere, for starters!). That's another reason I'm a fan of Tesla to some extent, because previous EV stuff or much of the 'econo' stuff has just been terrible boring for any car enthusiast.

    What scares me is the AI stuff. I welcome AI type assists (at least certain ones). But, I don't like the thought of giving up driving (from just an enjoyment perspective), and I think that's going to be a necessity for automated vehicles to work... even within the rather closed system of vehicles (let along pedestrians, weather, animals, etc.). The other problem is I understand enough about AI (technically and philosophically) to recognize it's limitations. I get the impression that many big AI proponents are either naive, purposely deceptive, or have talked themselves into more of a sci-fi reality, so as to ignore them.
  • Reply 116 of 140
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,982member
    macxpress said:
    fallenjt said:
    foggyhill said:
    Who the fuck cares. The way he's going he's to be bankrupt within 3 years.

    You want to bet on that? Look at Amazon now, same situation 20 years ago. Tesla uses current profit to reinvest in infrastructure, R&D and future projects. Look at 25% margin on Model S and X, and tell me how it will bankrupt?
    For one thing they can't get the damn cars out the door and then when they do they have countless issues with quality. As they stand now...I would never buy a Tesla. 
    That’s because you’re not in Bay Area, so you’re irrelevant. Silicon Valley is healthy market for Tesla. Model X and S are everywhere. So, tell me what the idiotic statement “can’t get the damn cars out the door” mean? Model 3 has some hiccups, and delay for a month or 2, big deal? Nope. People have been waiting, so 1-2 more months ain’t no big deal.
    Soli
  • Reply 117 of 140
    nhtnht Posts: 4,496member
    cgWerks said:
    Soli said:
    * Excluding those that are heavily invested in vehicles with ICEs.
    Yea. I don't quite understand how opposed to EVs some seem to be. I'm about the overall driving experience. I'll admit there is a quality about ICEs, the sounds, the shifting, etc. that has been an enjoyable part of the experience. But, I think there are aspects of electric motors that will be just as enjoyable (like nearly instant torque everywhere, for starters!). That's another reason I'm a fan of Tesla to some extent, because previous EV stuff or much of the 'econo' stuff has just been terrible boring for any car enthusiast.

    What scares me is the AI stuff. I welcome AI type assists (at least certain ones). But, I don't like the thought of giving up driving (from just an enjoyment perspective), and I think that's going to be a necessity for automated vehicles to work... even within the rather closed system of vehicles (let along pedestrians, weather, animals, etc.). The other problem is I understand enough about AI (technically and philosophically) to recognize it's limitations. I get the impression that many big AI proponents are either naive, purposely deceptive, or have talked themselves into more of a sci-fi reality, so as to ignore them.
    We can autonomously land a f-18 or heavy drone (x-47b) on a carrier at 140 knots.

    Autonomous systems are capable of driving safely in most scenarios.  It’s that last 10% they are making reliable and it won’t take much to make autonomous driving safer on average than most humans.
    Soli
  • Reply 118 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    fallenjt said:
    That’s because you’re not in Bay Area, so you’re irrelevant.
    Heh, such a truthful statement to represent Silicon Valley thought of all too many. :) (Or, more often, they aren't even practically aware there is an outside Silicon Valley.)

    nht said:
    We can autonomously land a f-18 or heavy drone (x-47b) on a carrier at 140 knots.

    Autonomous systems are capable of driving safely in most scenarios.  It’s that last 10% they are making reliable and it won’t take much to make autonomous driving safer on average than most humans.
    That's way easier.
    And, even if you're right, it's that 10% I'm worried about. I'm much safer than the 'average' driver who is texting, drunk or just not paying attention (most accidents), and probably safer than the average driver outside of that as well, as I pay way more attention to driving skills and my vehicle than most.

    Yes, they'll keep filling in the database to cover more situations (if they interpret them correctly), and sensors will improve, etc. But, they'll never cover everything. So, it's always going to be a tradeoff between real human decision making capabilities vs the speed, lack of 'blind spots' and such of automation. The sad thing, IMO, is that the companies pushing AI are more interested in this driverless future society and the money they can make for taxis or renting vehicles, etc. than they are for using aspects of the autonomy for driver-assistive tech (it sure seems, anyway).
  • Reply 119 of 140
    timmillea said:
    Testorone-driven marketing of this kind looks very last century in retrospect.
    I find it similar in many ways to Steve Jobs presentations. Not as nuanced and smooth - but otherwise visionary, (more) enthusiastic, bringing the audience into his vision of the future. 
  • Reply 120 of 140
    Obvious timed distraction from their huge manufacturing problems with the Model 3.
    It was planned long in advance actually, and he spoke about the manufacturing problems with the 3 in the previous week, no avoidance there.

    I mean, it's not like he's gone silent on the 3 and hastily set up a Semi + Roadster demonstration so that nobody would ask about the 3.  It's okay to do a few things at once.

    Next month people will say he's doing the Falcon Heavy (3 cores) rocket launch to distract from the 3... which will still be a couple of months behind schedule. So in anticipation of that... lets be clear the Falcon Heavy has been on schedule for a while, and is itself delayed, and not timed for Tesla's benefit. Whether 2 cores return and land or they all explode it'll get people's attention.
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